Miscellaneous > Non-DP Related Mysteries!
New development in the "Tamám Shud" mystery
Manti:
About the labels that have been removed from his clothes.. Did clothes at that time even have labels?
I would think if clothes are tailor made, why would they even have labels. If it's from a store, sure. I don't know how wide spread "fast fashion" was at the time. Plus someone might remove the labels because these irritate their skin? I do this for example.
Although I read that even the label of his suitcase was removed... that is indeed odd. Again I don't even know why a suitcase would have labels or how common it was at the time... and let's say suitcases had labels and it was not removed and it's a foreign brand. Would that really reveal anything about his identity for example if he was a spy? If a country goes to great lengths to run a spy programme, surely they have budget to buy a few suitcases and clothes made in the "target" country so nothing raises suspicion?
sigaffa:
--- Quote from: Manti on May 16, 2021, 07:20:39 PM ---About the labels that have been removed from his clothes.. Did clothes at that time even have labels?
I would think if clothes are tailor made, why would they even have labels. If it's from a store, sure. I don't know how wide spread "fast fashion" was at the time. Plus someone might remove the labels because these irritate their skin? I do this for example.
Although I read that even the label of his suitcase was removed... that is indeed odd. Again I don't even know why a suitcase would have labels or how common it was at the time... and let's say suitcases had labels and it was not removed and it's a foreign brand. Would that really reveal anything about his identity for example if he was a spy? If a country goes to great lengths to run a spy programme, surely they have budget to buy a few suitcases and clothes made in the "target" country so nothing raises suspicion?
--- End quote ---
When the TSM's body was examined, before autopsy, his clothing was also examined & photographed, and all of those items of clothes that he wore that originally contained labels had the labels removed, For example, this photo of his jacket was taken which clearly shows a place where a label had been before it was cut out:
The contents of his suitcase were a slightly different story. Some items of clothing in the suitcase did show that they originally had labels, which had been removed (similar to the jacket he wore). However, on some items of clothing labeling did exist. These labels fell into three categories:
1. Original manufacturer's labels - e.g. one shirt had a 'Pelaco' label - this was a popular Australian brand of shirt made at the time of TSM's death.
2. Cleaning/Laundering labels - there were a couple of items that had labels which suggested that they had been sent to a retail cleaners to be laundered. It was common for these cleaners to add labels to clothing to identify it with the customer.
3. Handwritten labels - an example is the famous 'white tie' - on the back of this was written "Keane" - which was assumed to be somebody's name? Here is a photo:
Kind regards.
WinterLeia:
Actually, I cannot remember where I saw it, but I did read that there was an expert analysis done on the code, and they said it was weighted heavily with letters that begin words in the English language. They hypothesized that it might be a memory device, such as how some people memorize the nonsense word PEMDAS to remember the order in which a math equation needs to be done (Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, division, addition, and subtraction).
And where did the idea come from that his clothes were tailor-made? If they were, they were most likely not tailor-made for him. Clothes were in short supply due to the recent war. Even people who were reasonably well off were wearing clothes that were second-hand items. That is why the police didn’t believe that the name T Keane was his. It had probably been the name of the original owner and the garment had found its way into a second-hand store. The other labels that were found were dry cleaning labels, which the police believed might have been ones that were missed, meaning that the labels that were torn off might have been the same thing.
Something I have always found interesting is that no care was taken with how the labels were ripped off. Considering that clothes were such a hard to come by commodity, the only logical explanation is that whoever did it knew he would not need the clothes anymore because he would be dead or was dead. Thus, it is hard to argue natural causes for the death, as if he had a heart attack (or whatever) and died on the beach, there would be no reason for him to believe that he would not be wearing those clothes again, and nobody else would care about the labels if they were not trying to cover their tracks.
Personally, I don’t know how the woman could not have known him. It would make for some really improbable coincidences. Plus, her reaction is not what anyone would expect for someone who is telling the truth. However, the Soviet spy theory is at odds with the personal thread, in my opinion. Why would he risk a woman he love (or loved) by carrying around information that could lead investigators back to her and the child, if he knew about him? And I’d be surprised if she was a spy too. I’d assume she’d be more proficient at lying. That being said, an undetectable poison does seem to hint at more than someone murdering him out of jealousy or something. Unless it was a chemist, which is possible, but not something that I would assume with no other evidence.
Jacques-Emile:
From this case I bury the Somerton man as well, in respect for the Spirit.
We see what we wish to see. "TKeane" some see. I see the letter gimel for the first, I cannot cypher the last. Прощай навсегда
sigaffa:
--- Quote from: WinterLeia on May 17, 2021, 06:13:58 AM ---Actually, I cannot remember where I saw it, but I did read that there was an expert analysis done on the code, and they said it was weighted heavily with letters that begin words in the English language. They hypothesized that it might be a memory device, such as how some people memorize the nonsense word PEMDAS to remember the order in which a math equation needs to be done (Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, division, addition, and subtraction).
--- End quote ---
Greetings WinterLeia ... you are quite correct, there have been many analyses done of TSM "code" and one theory (which I personally like wink1 ) is that it is a 'memory abbreviation' - like you said a series of letters that would help the author remember a series of words. I tried for a long time to make these letters fit TSM's travels here in Adelaide as I figured (as most do) that if he was not a local person he might have written the letters as a guide to remember how he should travel from the Railway Station to the suburb of GLenelg - alas I had no luck making the two "fit"!
--- Quote from: WinterLeia on May 17, 2021, 06:13:58 AM ---And where did the idea come from that his clothes were tailor-made? If they were, they were most likely not tailor-made for him. Clothes were in short supply due to the recent war. Even people who were reasonably well off were wearing clothes that were second-hand items. That is why the police didn’t believe that the name T Keane was his. It had probably been the name of the original owner and the garment had found its way into a second-hand store. The other labels that were found were dry cleaning labels, which the police believed might have been ones that were missed, meaning that the labels that were torn off might have been the same thing.
--- End quote ---
Once again, agreed - I don't believe any of TSM's clothing was tailor-made, and I don't recall ever ready anything to do with the police investigation that suggested they were? I think it is possible that many/all of his clothes might have been second-hand (see comment below), and this might be backed up by the fact that the police investigation showed that one of the shirts in the suitcase was a size different to the shirt that the body was found to be wearing.
--- Quote from: WinterLeia on May 17, 2021, 06:13:58 AM ---Something I have always found interesting is that no care was taken with how the labels were ripped off. Considering that clothes were such a hard to come by commodity, the only logical explanation is that whoever did it knew he would not need the clothes anymore because he would be dead or was dead. Thus, it is hard to argue natural causes for the death, as if he had a heart attack (or whatever) and died on the beach, there would be no reason for him to believe that he would not be wearing those clothes again, and nobody else would care about the labels if they were not trying to cover their tracks.
--- End quote ---
I did read on a TSM site that someone stated that it was very common at this time for second-hand clothing shops (what we would call "charity shops") to remove clothing labels from clothing they received, before they re-sold it. This author of this comment said that this was done because it was on the label that the original owner would routinely identify themselves for the purpose of laundering. I spoke to my mother about this (who worked in a large Adelaide Laundry in the 1950's, and she confirmed that nearly all customers identified their clothing with markings on the labels, or by labels that were purpose stitched into their clothes. From this, it is easy to conceive that when clothing was received at a charity shop, not a lot of care would be taken if the clothing had to be removed. Please remember that other items of his clothing did have labels. IMHO, the clothing TSM was found in, and the clothing (and other items) found in the suitcase suggest only that TSM was a man of limited financial means that took care of his appearance of himself and the care of his clothing.
--- Quote from: WinterLeia on May 17, 2021, 06:13:58 AM ---Personally, I don’t know how the woman could not have known him. It would make for some really improbable coincidences. Plus, her reaction is not what anyone would expect for someone who is telling the truth. However, the Soviet spy theory is at odds with the personal thread, in my opinion. Why would he risk a woman he love (or loved) by carrying around information that could lead investigators back to her and the child, if he knew about him? And I’d be surprised if she was a spy too. I’d assume she’d be more proficient at lying. That being said, an undetectable poison does seem to hint at more than someone murdering him out of jealousy or something. Unless it was a chemist, which is possible, but not something that I would assume with no other evidence.
--- End quote ---
Oh dear - Jessie Harkess/Thomson/Prosper whist1 - here is a woman with a personal history to be reckoned with!! It seems that her entire history is clouded with deceptions. I absolutely agree with you - that JHTP knew TSM, and that he visited her on the day he died. From my examination of JHTP's timelines and locations, I also believe that Robin was not fathered by Prosper Thomson. Even though the two were acquainted - during JHTP's pregnancy - it seems probable that JHTP fell pregnant - in Sydney, before she had ever met Prosper in Melbourne. This is where current events get exciting. If DNA from TSM is successfully extracted and analyzed, it could be used to confirm whether Robin Thomson was, in fact, fathered by TSM (via Robin's daughter's DNA analysis). Of course there is also the well-documented hypodontia and ear peculiarities which suggest that this could be the case - and even the "ballet connection" - but as we know from the DPI, there are as many people that argue for these hypotheses as there are that dismiss them!
I am sorry that I cannot make comment on any TSM spy theories, nor on whether TSM could have been murdered. Like the DPI, TSM's case abounds with explanatory theories that range from straight-forward to highly fanciful, but with both cases I get more enjoyment from investigating the known facts rather than trying to force information towards conclusions.
Kind regards.
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