Theories Discussion > KGB / Radiation / Military involvement
air/space craft accident leading to military attack
ash73:
--- Quote from: wizzy on June 24, 2019, 05:06:49 PM ---this thread is not about a weapon test, nor a bomb dropped on the hikers.
i said that maybe some kind of failed space test (gagarin succesfully went in orbit 2 years later) prompted the military to silence the witnesses.
--- End quote ---
Luna 1 was launched just a month earlier, in a failed attempt to rendezvous with the Moon. Luna 2 was successful in Sept, but they also launched another failed mission in June and kept it secret. Maybe they tried another time? It's interesting it takes a route over the pole; a launch from Baikonur would go somewhere close to Dyatlov pass.
I wondered if it might have been an early attempt to lob a spy sat into polar orbit, but the earliest record I can find of that is the Molniya orbit launches in the mid 60s. Probably more likely to be a test of a nearby SAM, I wonder if they keep records of all the tests.
The hikers could have been injured by debris falling to Earth, with the rest of the scenario playing out as a consequence. But there would need to be evidence of a launch, or a nearby crater, or some calculation of where the stages would fall.
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: ash73 on February 13, 2021, 05:35:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: wizzy on June 24, 2019, 05:06:49 PM ---this thread is not about a weapon test, nor a bomb dropped on the hikers.
i said that maybe some kind of failed space test (gagarin succesfully went in orbit 2 years later) prompted the military to silence the witnesses.
--- End quote ---
Luna 1 was launched just a month earlier, in a failed attempt to rendezvous with the Moon. Luna 2 was successful in Sept, but they also launched another failed mission in June and kept it secret. Maybe they tried another time? It's interesting it takes a route over the pole; a launch from Baikonur would go somewhere close to Dyatlov pass.
I wondered if it might have been an early attempt to lob a spy sat into polar orbit, but the earliest record I can find of that is the Molniya orbit launches in the mid 60s. Probably more likely to be a test of a nearby SAM, I wonder if they keep records of all the tests.
The hikers could have been injured by debris falling to Earth, with the rest of the scenario playing out as a consequence. But there would need to be evidence of a launch, or a nearby crater, or some calculation of where the stages would fall.
--- End quote ---
This Theory doesnt fit with the actual Events on the ground. No Evidence of any metal being found at the Sites of the Events that made up the whole. Injuries not consistent with falling debris. And so on.
ash73:
I agree there's no physical evidence; where is the debris, where is the crater? But I could imagine it happening. It's an interesting scenario because it would mean the authorities were taking large risks and provided no compensation to the families; which says a lot about life in Russia.
Also, it's all very well demanding evidence, but the real world isn't like CSI or Miss Marple where everything fits together like a jigsaw puzzle. In a trial you're presented with two seemingly credible versions of events, with conflicting evidence, and ultimately you have to decide who is telling you a pack of lies.
The rocket hypothesis relies on low probability happenstance, but I don't think it's a bad fit in some ways:
- Most of their injuries could be explained by a rocket impact. Nearby explosion, pressure wave, blinding light, etc would be enough to send them fleeing down the hill, the rest was a natural consequence
- Government cover-up, authorities first on scene, high ranking officials being involved, evidence going missing, case being closed down prematurely
- Witnesses seeing lights in the sky. There would be a bright light from the rocket, then multiple lights from helicopters searching for debris, which fits with separate sightings on 02 and 17 Feb.
- Unsubstantiated claim by Bogachev (who worked at a secret research institute) that Dyatlov was known in those circles to be the victim of a spent rocket launcher dropped on the Urals
- Anecdotal stories about large pieces of metal being found on the mountain (one by Mansi), and photos of similar debris being retrieved elsewhere in the Urals
We know Russia carried out regular rocket launches from Kapustin Yar and Baikonur in the South, and their trajectory would be North over Russian territory, roughly in the direction of Dyatlov Pass. Single stage rockets such as the R-12 wouldn't reach the coast. They will have jettisoned stages over the Urals, what other trajectory could they use? Statistically there would be little chance of an incident, but there was always a possibility.
We also know they were testing new SAMs to intercept the U2, at that time.
There are also weaknesses with the hypothesis, like all others. But unlike other scenarios, if it was a rocket we might find out eventually... as more details of tests become declassified over time.
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: ash73 on February 14, 2021, 04:39:26 PM ---I agree there's no physical evidence; where is the debris, where is the crater? But I could imagine it happening. It's an interesting scenario because it would mean the authorities were taking large risks and provided no compensation to the families; which says a lot about life in Russia.
Also, it's all very well demanding evidence, but the real world isn't like CSI or Miss Marple where everything fits together like a jigsaw puzzle. In a trial you're presented with two seemingly credible versions of events, with conflicting evidence, and ultimately you have to decide who is telling you a pack of lies.
The rocket hypothesis relies on low probability happenstance, but I don't think it's a bad fit in some ways:
- Most of their injuries could be explained by a rocket impact. Nearby explosion, pressure wave, blinding light, etc would be enough to send them fleeing down the hill, the rest was a natural consequence
- Government cover-up, authorities first on scene, high ranking officials being involved, evidence going missing, case being closed down prematurely
- Witnesses seeing lights in the sky. There would be a bright light from the rocket, then multiple lights from helicopters searching for debris, which fits with separate sightings on 02 and 17 Feb.
- Unsubstantiated claim by Bogachev (who worked at a secret research institute) that Dyatlov was known in those circles to be the victim of a spent rocket launcher dropped on the Urals
- Anecdotal stories about large pieces of metal being found on the mountain (one by Mansi), and photos of similar debris being retrieved elsewhere in the Urals
We know Russia carried out regular rocket launches from Kapustin Yar and Baikonur in the South, and their trajectory would be North over Russian territory, roughly in the direction of Dyatlov Pass. Single stage rockets such as the R-12 wouldn't reach the coast. They will have jettisoned stages over the Urals, what other trajectory could they use? Statistically there would be little chance of an incident, but there was always a possibility.
We also know they were testing new SAMs to intercept the U2, at that time.
There are also weaknesses with the hypothesis, like all others. But unlike other scenarios, if it was a rocket we might find out eventually... as more details of tests become declassified over time.
--- End quote ---
Well I did Jury Service in a Criminal Court Of Law in England. Sat on 2 Cases. Excellent experience. I highly recommend it if you get the chance. Its not really about being given 2 versions or even more versions and then deciding who is telling lies. There is much more to a Criminal Court Case than that. But obviously you do need to look at what Evidence there is and listen to what all the Witnesses have to say. You are shown things that the Public cant see relating to the particular Case. And really isnt the Dyatlov Case a bit like that, we are not being shown everything. Unfortunatley thats because of the Authorities. If there was ever a proper Court Case for the Dyatlov Incident then there would probably be a Jury or some such means of deciding the Case.
ash73:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on February 15, 2021, 01:20:39 PM ---Well I did Jury Service in a Criminal Court Of Law in England. Sat on 2 Cases. Excellent experience. I highly recommend it if you get the chance. Its not really about being given 2 versions or even more versions and then deciding who is telling lies. There is much more to a Criminal Court Case than that. But obviously you do need to look at what Evidence there is and listen to what all the Witnesses have to say. You are shown things that the Public cant see relating to the particular Case. And really isnt the Dyatlov Case a bit like that, we are not being shown everything. Unfortunatley thats because of the Authorities. If there was ever a proper Court Case for the Dyatlov Incident then there would probably be a Jury or some such means of deciding the Case.
--- End quote ---
I did Jury service a few years ago too, it was quite interesting. I went in thinking I'd just quietly offer my opinion and sit back and let them get on with it, but decided the Jury was going in the wrong direction so I got engaged and turned around 7 of them in the space of a few days, and got a guilty verdict. The debate was fascinating, I was emotionally exhausted by the end of it! Came out feeling I'd done something useful, for once in my life.
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