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Assuming murder

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amashilu:
This post is a question for participants who lean towards the theory that the hikers were murdered.
If they were murdered, how do you read the sequence of events?

If I were given orders to murder 9 people -- 9 is a lot -- I would first have to separate them into smaller groups because if I didn't, the other 8 could jump on me while I was killing one. Therefore, I don't think there was a single killer. I think Jean-Daniel is right, there were three. If there were three killers, they could each take a group of three hikers, separate the groups, and proceed.

Secondly, how can we account for the terrible brutality? Such brutality usually accompanies crimes of passion. Did Krivonischenko have his leg burned on purpose, so badly that he bit his own finger off in pain? Did Luydmila have her tongue ripped out? If I were a contract killer, I would just smash them and be done with it, but these people seem to have had a passion for cruelty. Do you think this?

Assuming there were three killers, do you see signs of different styles of killing, that would account for three killers, each with his own style?

And lastly, the clothing is weird. Someone, maybe Luydmila, was wearing a cut-off pants leg (and only one; if she was cold, why not two?); at one point, I read that the pants leg was "neatly cut" -- sorry, I can't remember where I read this, but I do know it was more than one place-- how did she get that, if she didn't have a knife or scissors, and how in the world does that fit into the murder scenario?

I hope we can use this post to discuss the theory of murder, possible sequence of events, number of killers, why such cruelty, and how the clothing fits into the murder, and just set aside the "it wasn't murder" for other topics.

ilahiyol:
The attacker has already taken 9 people out of the tent alone. So he doesn't have to split them into three groups to kill them. He was just waiting for the right time. Yes, the attacker is very sadistic when angry. Those hiding under the snow must have pissed him off.

GlennM:
Assuming murder. 1. All behavior is motivated. Determine the unequivocal motivation. 2. All murderers bring something to a crime scene and take something away. What are these things? 3. The death of the hikers was profitable for someone. Follow the money. 4. Demonstrate that any of the physical injuries suffered by the party can only be explained by assault from another individual and nothing else. 5. Analysis of the killing field. Determine whether clues to the murder are found in the location and postures of the deceased. Explain and public or private symbolism and tie that to the perpetrators.

Assuming murder, addressing the 5 items above will eliminate the vexing " what if's " that plague this line of inquiry. The forum will respond favorably when incontrovertible new factual evidence is submitted. Good hunting!

Jean Daniel Reuss:

--- Quote from: amashilu on November 30, 2022, 04:46:17 AM ---This post is a question for participants who lean towards the theory that the hikers were murdered.
If they were murdered, how do you read the sequence of events?....................
--- End quote ---

In short, the main advocates of a criminal theory are, unless I am mistaken:
Vladimir Askenadzi, Eduard Tumanov, Per Inge Oestmoen, Aleks Kandr, anna_pycckux, Natalya Saharova, ElizabethHarris, EBE, Angel1, Charles, ilahiyol and myself Jean Daniel Reuss.

In my TOK theory, I can easily answer the main WHY ? and HOW ? questions.

Of course, (to answer the WHO ? question) it's impossible to know the precise names of the people who ordered the massacre, or the names of the 3 hired killers, who were only equipped with big sticks.
The perpetrators of the massacre are to be found among Khrushchev's many political enemies.

It was a defeat for the KGB, which proved to be incapable of protecting the lives of the hikers.

Unfortunately, I am leaving tomorrow for hospital and I am afraid I will not be able to write here.


--- Quote from: amashilu on November 30, 2022, 04:46:17 AM ---......................
Secondly, how can we account for the terrible brutality?
....................

--- End quote ---

I do not think you have any of the qualities needed to become a hitman. You have to give up becoming and understanding a hitman.


--- Quote from: GlennM on December 01, 2022, 04:46:23 PM ---Assuming murder. 1. All behavior is motivated. Determine the unequivocal motivation. 2. All murderers bring something to a crime scene and take something away. What are these things? 3. The death of the hikers was profitable for someone. Follow the money. 4. Demonstrate that any of the physical injuries suffered by the party can only be explained by assault from another individual and nothing else. 5. Analysis of the killing field. Determine whether clues to the murder are found in the location and postures of the deceased. Explain and public or private symbolism and tie that to the perpetrators. ............
--- End quote ---

"Soldier's puttees, one found near the cedar and one in the tent. Yuri Yudin said that those did not belong to the Dyatlov group.
Except of that, according to Maslennikov's notebook (scan 47), they found a piece of broken ski 20m from the tent."....?

The DPI was a terrorist attack that reflected the complicated internal situations in the USSR and the CPSU at the time.

In 1959, in the USSR, there were strong confrontations, and even a kind of civil war, between the Stalinist conservatives and those who supported Khrushchev's policy of (small) reforms, particularly with regard to the difficult dismantling of the Gulag.

(Khrushchev was finally ousted from power in 1964).   

The Dyatlovites were percieved by the Stalinists in the Ivdel region as propagandists in the service of Khrushchev's policies.

Sheet 200, Goals and objectives:
.......................
2  - Holding lectures and carrying out conversations among the public.
............................

Moreover, certainly unaware of the terrible internal political tensions in his beloved country, Dyatlov, as a good organiser, had seen fit to take successful steps to obtain his voucher:

"a travel certificate and a trade union voucher, in which he addressed the leaders of Soviet, party and public organizations, “to render all possible assistance” in providing the Dyatlov group of hikers campaign XXI Congress of the CPSU, the opening of which was scheduled for January 28, 1959."   

anna_pycckux:
My version is political murder. I am answering your questions:
1. According to logic, the group was divided in such a way that it was easier to destroy it. Naturally, there was a deception. I don't believe in bare footprints. I believe that under the guise of helping a wounded hunter, part of the group left the tent. Everyone was warmly dressed. Liquidators in the forest near the cedar ordered them to undress. Tourists fought back, but the forces were unequal. The second group of tourists later went in search of them and also fell into a trap.
2. Cruelty. The task of eliminating the group was assigned to the military. But the military doubted that they would be able to kill students, in fact, children, so they took prisoners from the Ivdellag with them. Sadistic prisoners helped to fulfill the order of the military and broke the resistance of tourists.
3. Torn clothes. There were dogs with the liquidators. Hence the bites and torn clothes. Clothes could also be cut in the morgue for quick removal.

My opinion: After the murder of tourists, they were buried in the pit of the Ivdellag, they wanted to declare them missing. And only the actions of parents and relatives who did not leave the authorities alone and intimidated them by the international community helped to conduct searches and funerals in Sverdlovsk.

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