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Author Topic: And we've got no radio  (Read 2809 times)

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July 24, 2020, 03:05:48 PM
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beak


And we've got no radio. I would have 2. Yet they have have none.

July 24, 2020, 03:43:58 PM
Reply #1
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Ting


I suspect transporting a radio at that time may have required special permissions. Even a Finnish knife required a license.
Plus it would have weighed about 20kg extra.
Plenty of radio engineering expertise in the group though.

July 24, 2020, 04:40:18 PM
Reply #2
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
And we've got no radio. I would have 2. Yet they have have none.

Yes and I would want a Gun as well. No Radio equipment or Firearms.
DB

July 24, 2020, 04:48:01 PM
Reply #3
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I suspect transporting a radio at that time may have required special permissions. Even a Finnish knife required a license.
Plus it would have weighed about 20kg extra.
Plenty of radio engineering expertise in the group though.

Yes Students studying Radio Engineering. And Dyatlov, who even made Radios and used them on hikes. But not this one  !  ? 
DB

July 24, 2020, 05:40:37 PM
Reply #4
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beak


Where did the radio go?
There will have been one. But who owned it? Obviously Dyatlov.

That was the fight. If that was my camp (and a fight) then that radio would be like diamonds.

Nothing found and no diary entries to suggest that there was a radio.
If you are going to use something like that then you do what (LD) did (hide in the tent). Or attempt to.
There MUST have been a radio. Even in 1959 .... 14 years after the end of WW2 they were common then.

Nobody found any trace of a radio???????????

July 25, 2020, 06:14:11 AM
Reply #5
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Ting


Are you suggesting that Dyatlov was deliberately concealing a radio and it was discovered which was the reason for a fight ?
I do not see any evidence for a radio and if it was discovered by the rest of the group I would have thought Dyatlov could have talked his way out of the situation without a fight. He must have considered the chances of it being discovered and devised a suitable story.
The only things I see in favour of there being a radio would be Dyatlov's expertise in using and perhaps concealing one and the tenuous idea that the reason they camped up the slope instead of in the woods was to have a better signal. It would be far more interesting if we were to discover that Dyatlov was working on some missile jamming transmitter system.


July 25, 2020, 06:29:18 AM
Reply #6
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PJ


There is many reasons why they not have a radio. I will be very surprises if they will have one..
1. To have radio, you need someone, somewhere to talk with, but they were in very isolated place, so they will need radio with very huge range.
2. Power supply will be problematic in very cold temps, batteries will be flat very fast (or they will have to carry lots of theme)
3. To have radio that will work there it will have to weight a lot.

Generally, even this days when radios and sat phones are cheap and available people not use it much in mountains, it is not common even in places where mobile phone not work (lots of people enjoy to be off civilization for 2-3 weeks  grin1 )

July 25, 2020, 07:42:36 AM
Reply #7
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Nigel Evans


and then there's the missing sat nav, heated ski boots and mittens, satellite phone with numbers for emergency helicopter airlift, at least two rifles to deal with yetis, avalanche rescue equipment.

and lots and lots of candy.

maybe the rescuers ate all the candy....

July 25, 2020, 09:12:52 AM
Reply #8
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WAB


Friends and colleagues!
You begin discussion, which has already been discussed several times on Russian forums. Including specialists in these matters. I will not speak in detail, but I will only point out the main points that are already clear, if you know even the very small details of this section.

And we've got no radio. I would have 2. Yet they have have none.

Let's start from the beginning, shall we?
The main question is: why should they have had it? It will contain the answer, as long as it is evaluated correctly.

July 25, 2020, 09:14:55 AM
Reply #9
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WAB


I suspect transporting a radio at that time may have required special permissions. Even a Finnish knife required a license.


I'm must be little more specific about your remarks.
1. No permits were required at the time to transport and own radio and TV sets. It (license) was required for amateur radio transmitters with power over 5 W. This was necessary because these transmitters would operate on dedicated frequencies and would not interfere with other communications.
2. The knife licence (it did not have to be Finnish) was only required when its characteristics (length, hardness, construction) exceeded those specified by law. From the practice of that time I can safely say that homemade knives, which even exceeded the requirements, could be transported, but it did not have to be done openly. They were used in uninhabited areas, for example, as during the journey of the Dyatlov group.

Plus it would have weighed about 20kg extra.
Plenty of radio engineering expertise in the group though.

Yes, you're right about that, but apart from Dyatlov himself, none of them was fond of amateur radio design.

July 25, 2020, 09:16:06 AM
Reply #10
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WAB


And we've got no radio. I would have 2. Yet they have have none.

Yes and I would want a Gun as well. No Radio equipment or Firearms.

Yeah. I'm totally on your side here, too. I come from what's there or what was there, not what I want to think. Any information has to be checked before conclusions can be drawn.

July 25, 2020, 09:22:22 AM
Reply #11
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WAB


I suspect transporting a radio at that time may have required special permissions. Even a Finnish knife required a license.
Plus it would have weighed about 20kg extra.
Plenty of radio engineering expertise in the group though.

Yes Students studying Radio Engineering. And Dyatlov, who even made Radios and used them on hikes. But not this one  !  ?

Absolutely.
1. Dyatlov made trial radio devices, like " Walkie-Talkie" in 1956 to travel on rafts along the river in the Sayan Mountains. It was intended for communication between two rafts, at distance of several hundred meters The design was not very successful, so he did not develop it.
2. At that time, transistors of the required parameters (in terms of radio frequency and power in the antenna) were not available in Sverdlovsk, and sometimes have not yet been manufactured. In USSR, and in other country bat the way, even in the USA and Japan at that time there were no have make such transistor for communication as in Dyatlov group from place to Sverdlovsk or Pervouralsk (he and his family lived there permanently).
3. The existing bulb radios were heavy and required battery power, which increased the weight even further. This was correctly stated by the bell .the weight estimate of such radio station is 30...40 kGs, which is completely unacceptable for such trip.
4. If it is necessary use emergency communication, there should have been operator on duty all the time. No one had such opportunity. Otherwise this whole system doesn't make sense. Communication 1 or 2 times in day will not give reliability, especially given the fact that radio waves do not always meet the conditions. As radio operators say, there are no radio waves.
For comparison: on the search was radio station weighing 30 kGs and they used about 100 kGs of batteries for 3 months of this radio station. We have take into account that their radio station did not work every day, so it can all be increased ~ 2 times.

July 25, 2020, 09:24:37 AM
Reply #12
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WAB


Where did the radio go?
There will have been one. But who owned it? Obviously Dyatlov.

That was the fight. If that was my camp (and a fight) then that radio would be like diamonds.

Nothing found and no diary entries to suggest that there was a radio.
If you are going to use something like that then you do what (LD) did (hide in the tent). Or attempt to.
There MUST have been a radio. Even in 1959 .... 14 years after the end of WW2 they were common then.

Nobody found any trace of a radio???????????

You can't find something that didn't exist. None of those who were with them on this journey at the beginning (Yuri Yudin, Blinov`s members group), does not recall that they even had radio. Because they didn't need it at all, if we talk about the main functions of the journey. However, it didn't make any sense carry  "extra thing" with them, because they already had lot of weight at the beginning of the trip.

July 25, 2020, 09:29:41 AM
Reply #13
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WAB


Are you suggesting that Dyatlov was deliberately concealing a radio and it was discovered which was the reason for a fight ?
I do not see any evidence for a radio and if it was discovered by the rest of the group I would have thought Dyatlov could have talked his way out of the situation without a fight. He must have considered the chances of it being discovered and devised a suitable story.

You shouldn't look for crime where it can't be. He didn't take the radio because it wasn't effective in this case. The reasons I wrote earlier should provide an exhaustive answer to the question: why?
If he had taken the wrong thing with him, it could not have helped him in this case.
Even now, if he having satellite phone and reporting it to the rescue service immediately, you have wait two days or longer (it all depends on the weather!) when the rescue workers come to this place.  cry2


The only things I see in favour of there being a radio would be Dyatlov's expertise in using and perhaps concealing one and the tenuous idea that the reason they camped up the slope instead of in the woods was to have to better signal.

In addition being able to do something, there is also the need to do it. He didn't have the need to do it. Because there was no opportunity get help in time and the characteristics of the device were more than the ability transport and work...

It would be far more interesting if we were to discover that Dyatlov was working on some missile jamming transmitter system.

I don't understand what you're going to do: find out what was there, or create your own story, something that wasn't there?  grin1

July 25, 2020, 09:32:03 AM
Reply #14
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WAB


There is many reasons why they not have a radio. I will be very surprises if they will have one..
1. To have radio, you need someone, somewhere to talk with, but they were in very isolated place, so they will need radio with very huge range.
2. Power supply will be problematic in very cold temps, batteries will be flat very fast (or they will have to carry lots of theme)
3. To have radio that will work there it will have to weight a lot.

Generally, even this days when radios and sat phones are cheap and available people not use it much in mountains, it is not common even in places where mobile phone not work (lots of people enjoy to be off civilization for 2-3 weeks  grin1 )

Here we go!  dunno1
And I've already written almost the same thing as you... If I'd known you were going to write it, I would have waited. Because we have a joke: Laziness is the engine of progress.  kewl1
Anyway, thank you for having the same opinion and for understanding the situation well at the time.

July 25, 2020, 11:03:33 AM
Reply #15
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Ting


Are you suggesting that Dyatlov was deliberately concealing a radio and it was discovered which was the reason for a fight ?
I do not see any evidence for a radio and if it was discovered by the rest of the group I would have thought Dyatlov could have talked his way out of the situation without a fight. He must have considered the chances of it being discovered and devised a suitable story.

You shouldn't look for crime where it can't be. He didn't take the radio because it wasn't effective in this case. The reasons I wrote earlier should provide an exhaustive answer to the question: why?
If he had taken the wrong thing with him, it could not have helped him in this case.
Even now, if he having satellite phone and reporting it to the rescue service immediately, you have wait two days or longer (it all depends on the weather!) when the rescue workers come to this place.  cry2


The only things I see in favour of there being a radio would be Dyatlov's expertise in using and perhaps concealing one and the tenuous idea that the reason they camped up the slope instead of in the woods was to have to better signal.

In addition being able to do something, there is also the need to do it. He didn't have the need to do it. Because there was no opportunity get help in time and the characteristics of the device were more than the ability transport and work...

It would be far more interesting if we were to discover that Dyatlov was working on some missile jamming transmitter system.

I don't understand what you're going to do: find out what was there, or create your own story, something that wasn't there?  grin1

WAB you misunderstood my English. I was rejecting the idea of there being a radio. My last comment was not a serious suggestion. Ещё не время все будет хорошо !
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 11:29:37 AM by Ting »

July 25, 2020, 11:15:46 AM
Reply #16
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Ting


WAB. I would be interested to know from your expeditions to the site how long do you think it would take to walk from the tent to the Cedar tree given the conditions as we know them ?
I have estimated about 45-60 minutes. I am assuming it was slippy and rocky in places about -25 celsius, poor visibility and a down slope wind.
(I watched your informative video showing the slope and your friend trying to decsend very carefully in daylight).
How sure can we be about the temperature, wind speed/direction and visibility during the group's journey down the slope?

July 26, 2020, 12:25:11 AM
Reply #17
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sparrow


I was told that these type III hikes were a way of teaching that generation how to survive in case of another major war (between Russia and ?).  During war there is not always access to heat and, of course, radios.  In our studies of WWII, we learned that the Russians beat Germany on the eastern front because the Germans were not prepared for the Russian winters and, of course, the Russians were.  Does anyone know if this was the case?  It really would, kind of, make sense.

July 26, 2020, 06:57:30 AM
Reply #18
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Nigel Evans


I was told that these type III hikes were a way of teaching that generation how to survive in case of another major war (between Russia and ?).  During war there is not always access to heat and, of course, radios.  In our studies of WWII, we learned that the Russians beat Germany on the eastern front because the Germans were not prepared for the Russian winters and, of course, the Russians were.  Does anyone know if this was the case?  It really would, kind of, make sense.
Having the best battle tank of WW2 helped - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34

July 26, 2020, 12:25:45 PM
Reply #19

eurocentric

Guest
And we've got no radio. I would have 2. Yet they have have none.

Yes and I would want a Gun as well. No Radio equipment or Firearms.

A previous hike had a rifle, although the guy holding it looks to have a military cap on, whereas Igor Dyatlov brandishes a guitar.






July 26, 2020, 01:16:23 PM
Reply #20
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Teddy

Administrator
1958 Central Sayan - this is the trek when Dubnina was wounded
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1958-Central-Sayan

1958 Altai
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1958-Altai

1957 Northern Ural - see the last photo, Nikolay Tregubov watching a girl with a firearm. Zina is to his left. Somebody seems to be shielding himself from the rifle.
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1957-Northern-Ural

1956 Chusovaya
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1956-Chusovaya

There might be more...
https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlov-group-members-treks

July 27, 2020, 03:30:40 AM
Reply #21
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WAB



WAB you misunderstood my English.

I'm sorry very much about that.  whist1

I was rejecting the idea of there being a radio. My last comment was not a serious suggestion.

Apparently, it was such subtle English humor that few people understand, and I'm no exception here.  grin1

Ещё не время все будет хорошо !

Я тоже на это очень сильно надеюсь…  grin1

I really hope so, too...  grin1

July 27, 2020, 03:33:55 AM
Reply #22
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WAB


WAB. I would be interested to know from your expeditions to the site how long do you think it would take to walk from the tent to the Cedar tree given the conditions as we know them ?
I have estimated about 45-60 minutes. I am assuming it was slippy and rocky in places about -25 celsius, poor visibility and a down slope wind.
(I watched your informative video showing the slope and your friend trying to decsend very carefully in daylight).
How sure can we be about the temperature, wind speed/direction and visibility during the group's journey down the slope?

Thank you for asking questions in this way: short, concrete and clear.
In order to save time (unfortunately, the information is very extensive), I will be answering points:
1. You estimate this time approximately correctly, for a participant who came in the best way in those conditions. For example, it may concern the 2 Yura with the highest probability. If there were any additional obstacles, then this time could be longer. Additionally, I can say (this is my personal opinion based on the analysis of places and the logic of events) that not all participants have reached the cedar and fire. This follows from the places where they were found and the analysis of the things they had found. So far we can say that only 3 people have been there: 2 Yura and Alexander Kolevatov - with the highest probability. The rest (alas) could not get there for various reasons. Therefore, their travel time was longer. For example, if 4 den (more exactly 3 of them) carried a wounded man to the third stone ridge of Tibo (a second flashlight was found there!), then this time should be at least twice as long. This is a very hard and long process, especially considering that of the three, one it was Luda.
2. You also assess the quality of the slope sections very correctly. However, your temperature is little lower than the one calculated from 9 weather stations in the county. I have calculated (maybe I will be corrected, but so far there have not been such reliable corrections), that the temperature was at the top about -15 ... -18 C (this is Celsius, but if it is more convenient for you, you can write on Fahrenheit, I can understand everything correctly, only please specify the icons - which scale refers to) with wind 15 ... 20 m/s (30 ... 39 knt). There was practically no wind at the bottom, but the temperature was lower - about -20 ... -24C(-4 ... -12F) is the aerodynamics of the area and the influence of vegetation. As well as the fact that the eastern slope of the Ural Mountains belongs to another climatic region, colder than the western one. These mountains are the boundary of the division of these regions. The wind was exclusively western (downhill), but slightly above the place where Zina was found, it dropped sharply... This was also noted in observations on our expeditions and is feature of the local aerodynamics of the landscape. I gave here links to videos series when I was walking down slope with an initial wind of about 20 m/s (39 knt).
3. Night visibility very much dependent on the quality of vision, but even for good vision it does not exceed 20 m in the absence of the moon. That is, you can see individual contours and spots, but there are no specific images that can be confidently identified. Hearing in the wind was no more than 15 m from the wind side, this we tested in the experiment in common Kuncevich back in March 2013. When there, unexpectedly for us, we found out that correspondents of the newspaper "Komsomolskaya Pravda" should fly there. I also gave link to the video of this experiment here on this forum.
4. The video you are talking about was an experiment to determine the time that can be considered absolutely minimal in ideal conditions and with maximum safety of movement on a slope. It shows very well that even with no ice at all, the snow is very slippery, so one should not be surprised how likely injuries on the rocks are when you fall, especially if it happens at night and when there is no visibility.

 And I want to emphasize once again the idea that there is no certainty that the group has acted in full all the time. Most likely, there were maximum of 2 groups - 2 and 4 people (and only at the very end) + 3 individual participants on the slope, but they were separate from each other.
This is a consequence of the reason for leaving the tent, and the conditions that were there then. The conclusion from this can be justified by the event`s logic.

July 27, 2020, 03:36:15 AM
Reply #23
Offline

WAB


1958 Central Sayan - this is the trek when Dubnina was wounded
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1958-Central-Sayan

1958 Altai
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1958-Altai

1957 Northern Ural - see the last photo, Nikolay Tregubov watching a girl with a firearm. Zina is to his left. Somebody seems to be shielding himself from the rifle.
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1957-Northern-Ural

1956 Chusovaya
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1956-Chusovaya

You have correct understand what this is say about.
1) What it says here is not about "rifle" (rifled combat weapon), it says about amateur hunting smoothbore weapon, caliber "16", "12" or "20". In the USSR rifled weapons for civilian purposes were allowed only for professional hunters by special permission and were strictly controlled (had be controlled!) by the police. Mansi hunters belonged to this category, but they were allocated 5.45 mm rifles (this is slightly less than .223) with soft lead bullet, similar to those used in sport shooting
2. Travelers Groups took hunting guns with them:
- if there were amateur hunters,
- if the allowable backpack loading allowed it,
- if there were hunting objects (mostly birds) in the travel area.
In any other case, they could only take the shotgun as ornament in the photos, just like the ice breakers for that area of travel. In the Subpolar Urals, ice-axe could be used for its intended purpose, in the North Urals there was no such necessity, except for exceptional cases which could not be foreseen in advance. The best use for it in Dyatlov's group was that they kept rope from the tent.
3. Many photos of such travels show that groups of travelers used gun for salute in honor of climbing to ordinary peak or passing pass.

There might be more...
https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlov-group-members-treks

Teddy, unfortunately, the usual digest and/or translation article contains many different vague formulations and shifts in concepts and terms as well. I will try write review of this article little later. It should be in the style of what I wrote about "34 photos".

July 27, 2020, 06:25:20 AM
Reply #24
Offline

PJ


I will add one more reason for having a rifle during a hike - protection from bears - generally the only animal that is not much afraid of humans. Of course to do it some of the member must hold valid license for it.
In Greenland or Svalbard it is highly recommended by local governments to have rifle during hikes (sure, polar bears are much more dangerous than brown one).
So if someone could take rifle and the backpack was still not too heavy it is nothing strange with having a rifle on a hike, same as is nothing strange with not having a one :)

From the hikes listed by Teddy 4 of 5 was during period when bears are awaken; January/February is a hibernation time and the risk to meet with bear is very low so this is one of reason why to not take rifle for a winter hike.

July 27, 2020, 09:23:52 AM
Reply #25
Offline

Tony


And we've got no radio. I would have 2. Yet they have have none.

Donnie Eichar covers this in his book 'Dead Mountain.' There were several reasons (I don't remember all of them) but I do remember him stating that the radio was very large and heavy making it difficult to transport. Igor was very proficient with the latest in radio technology and, if I remember right, wanted to bring one.
"If there exists a fact which can only be thought of as sinister. A fact which can only point to some sinister underpinning, you will never be able to think up all the non-sinister, perfectly valid explanations for that fact."
- Josiah Thomson

July 27, 2020, 09:41:03 AM
Reply #26
Offline

Ting


WAB. I would be interested to know from your expeditions to the site how long do you think it would take to walk from the tent to the Cedar tree given the conditions as we know them ?
I have estimated about 45-60 minutes. I am assuming it was slippy and rocky in places about -25 celsius, poor visibility and a down slope wind.
(I watched your informative video showing the slope and your friend trying to decsend very carefully in daylight).
How sure can we be about the temperature, wind speed/direction and visibility during the group's journey down the slope?

Thank you for asking questions in this way: short, concrete and clear.
In order to save time (unfortunately, the information is very extensive), I will be answering points:
1. You estimate this time approximately correctly, for a participant who came in the best way in those conditions. For example, it may concern the 2 Yura with the highest probability. If there were any additional obstacles, then this time could be longer. Additionally, I can say (this is my personal opinion based on the analysis of places and the logic of events) that not all participants have reached the cedar and fire. This follows from the places where they were found and the analysis of the things they had found. So far we can say that only 3 people have been there: 2 Yura and Alexander Kolevatov - with the highest probability. The rest (alas) could not get there for various reasons. Therefore, their travel time was longer. For example, if 4 den (more exactly 3 of them) carried a wounded man to the third stone ridge of Tibo (a second flashlight was found there!), then this time should be at least twice as long. This is a very hard and long process, especially considering that of the three, one it was Luda.
2. You also assess the quality of the slope sections very correctly. However, your temperature is little lower than the one calculated from 9 weather stations in the county. I have calculated (maybe I will be corrected, but so far there have not been such reliable corrections), that the temperature was at the top about -15 ... -18 C (this is Celsius, but if it is more convenient for you, you can write on Fahrenheit, I can understand everything correctly, only please specify the icons - which scale refers to) with wind 15 ... 20 m/s (30 ... 39 knt). There was practically no wind at the bottom, but the temperature was lower - about -20 ... -24C(-4 ... -12F) is the aerodynamics of the area and the influence of vegetation. As well as the fact that the eastern slope of the Ural Mountains belongs to another climatic region, colder than the western one. These mountains are the boundary of the division of these regions. The wind was exclusively western (downhill), but slightly above the place where Zina was found, it dropped sharply... This was also noted in observations on our expeditions and is feature of the local aerodynamics of the landscape. I gave here links to videos series when I was walking down slope with an initial wind of about 20 m/s (39 knt).
3. Night visibility very much dependent on the quality of vision, but even for good vision it does not exceed 20 m in the absence of the moon. That is, you can see individual contours and spots, but there are no specific images that can be confidently identified. Hearing in the wind was no more than 15 m from the wind side, this we tested in the experiment in common Kuncevich back in March 2013. When there, unexpectedly for us, we found out that correspondents of the newspaper "Komsomolskaya Pravda" should fly there. I also gave link to the video of this experiment here on this forum.
4. The video you are talking about was an experiment to determine the time that can be considered absolutely minimal in ideal conditions and with maximum safety of movement on a slope. It shows very well that even with no ice at all, the snow is very slippery, so one should not be surprised how likely injuries on the rocks are when you fall, especially if it happens at night and when there is no visibility.

 And I want to emphasize once again the idea that there is no certainty that the group has acted in full all the time. Most likely, there were maximum of 2 groups - 2 and 4 people (and only at the very end) + 3 individual participants on the slope, but they were separate from each other.
This is a consequence of the reason for leaving the tent, and the conditions that were there then. The conclusion from this can be justified by the event`s logic.
WAB. Thank you for the explanation. I like your pragmatic approach to all the details. Some people create crazy stories with no evidence!  It is like когда pak на горе свистиeт   grin1

July 27, 2020, 12:14:11 PM
Reply #27
Offline

WAB


I will add one more reason for having a rifle during a hike - protection from bears - generally the only animal that is not much afraid of humans. Of course to do it some of the member must hold valid license for it.
In Greenland or Svalbard it is highly recommended by local governments to have rifle during hikes (sure, polar bears are much more dangerous than brown one).

Dear PJ !
If we discuss about the Dyatlov's group travels and his comrades-from university in 1959, we should limit ourselves to the possibilities and conditions of that time and place.
Of course, when one has travel along the shores or islands of the Arctic Ocean, one cannot do without good rifle. I travelled on the islands of Severnaya Zemlya and FJL, and then we specially received such permission and were given rifle and ammunition. With the obligatory condition that we have no right to kill polar bears.
During my military service I was on the islands of Novaya Zemlia (New Land) for some time. There, when crossing long distances (up to 30 km) between populated villages, we were given combat carbines as an order. But these are completely different conditions.
The Ural Mountains area from the point Ivdel (conditionally) to the shores of the Arctic Ocean has no polar bear distribution area. Anyway, I don't remember what anyone would say about it even in the Amderma settlement (it is on the coast of the Arctic Ocean, on the traverse “New Land” islands).
In winter (between October-November and March-April) brown bears go into hibernation and the appearance wandering bear in winter (“Shatun”, as they say in Siberia) is very rare. Besides, its life time in this case is measured by 10 days or two weeks.
If we speak about area Dyatlov group travel, occurrence of such bear would be necessarily known to Mansi hunters, and they would inform to Ivdel.
If we mention the possibility of using hunting gun (this is what travelers took) against wandering bear, it is almost unrealistic. That's why very often during winter journeys they don't use hunting gun. This is more exception to the use than possibility.
I have about 80 winter skiing trips in my history (including search and rescue activities) and we have never (besides what I said above) taken such gun. And many of my travel colleagues (it is few hundred people) have never used it either. I cannot recall case when in winter bear attacked such travelers group in the USSR and Russia from 1959 until that time. Let me remind you once again that this does not concern the Arctic regions. Polar bears live there, and this is completely different kind of animal.


So if someone could take rifle and the backpack was still not too heavy it is nothing strange with having a rifle on a hike, same as is nothing strange with not having a one :)

Of course, such possibility it was and it is now, but it would not be very appropriate.

From the hikes listed by Teddy 4 of 5 was during period when bears are awaken; January/February is a hibernation time and the risk to meet with bear is very low so this is one of reason why to not take rifle for a winter hike.

Yes, of course. This is the case when expediency outweighs the desire give in to rumors about bears.
By the way, bears do not wake up in these areas until the March end. We have northern country where more than half the territory is in the permafrost zone.

July 27, 2020, 12:18:10 PM
Reply #28
Offline

WAB


Donnie Eichar covers this in his book 'Dead Mountain.' There were several reasons (I don't remember all of them) but I do remember him stating that the radio was very large and heavy making it difficult to transport.

If you could see, this is shortened version of what you wrote in previous posts. This is what I told him in 2012 when he was in Ekaterinburg and we went to the mountain pass. He did not pass on some special details related to technical details. Apparently, it was hard for him accept them in short time. For that you need to have technical education, and he is producer, director and scriptwriter.
But it doesn't matter. All the justifications for his inability use such devices in the journey of that time are given there correctly

Igor was very proficient with the latest in radio technology and, if I remember right, wanted to bring one.

We have toast: "Let's toast to matching our desires with our abilities." (c)  grin1
But the fact that he wanted take something like that on this trip is nowhere to be found. Anyway, it is in credible sources.

July 27, 2020, 02:08:57 PM
Reply #29
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
And we've got no radio. I would have 2. Yet they have have none.

Yes and I would want a Gun as well. No Radio equipment or Firearms.

A previous hike had a rifle, although the guy holding it looks to have a military cap on, whereas Igor Dyatlov brandishes a guitar.



Nice find. And I do find it hard to believe that the Dyatlov Group never took a firearm with them even just for protection against wild animals like Bears.
DB