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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Evidence  (Read 56076 times)

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January 28, 2021, 09:15:34 AM
Reply #270
Offline

MDGross


Well said DAXXY. Shame on you, Nigel (unless you are just having fun???!!!). Evolution and natural selection determine life on earth. No exceptions. Of course, if you can post a photo of you standing with Bigfoot, I will need to rethink everything.
 

January 28, 2021, 09:23:46 AM
Reply #271

eurocentric

Guest
Just because someone is an academic does not make them more believable or more trustworthy than anyone else.  Academics can also have their own agendas.  Look at the 'academics' who helped dictators like Hitler.  Academics will ride any gravy train that offers them a living where they can use their talents. They need to make a living like everyone else.  In these days of social media and 'documentaries' being made about supernatural phenomenon the film makers feel better about paying and interviewing doctor A or professor B.  It adds a veneer of academic status to the documentary's content.  It's better than just interviewing Frank C who works on a farm.  But I guarantee every academic will never offer proof of Bigfoot's existence or make anything other than non-committal comments like 'further research is needed'  as they hand the media company their contact details.  lol4  Bigfoot should be seen for what it is.  An old fashioned mythical folklore creature like dragons.

People have a right to their beliefs and many people prefer to sit on fences with their open minds.  Open mindedness is fine until someone like an academic working for a higher power comes along with an agenda and starts to fill in gaps using pseudo-intellectual language and edited video clips and lots of very definite sounding statements which are actually complete non-answers.  An open mind is like an open box. Ready to be filled by anyone, you could grow nourishing herbs in your box or you could allow someone else to put a rattlesnake in your box.

If you look at an earlier mass delusion in history 'Witchcraft'.  Witches were actually women healers in rural communities and they knew loads of knowledge but not necessarily why things worked. They would help expectant mothers and heal the sick.  The magic wand comes from a small hardwood staff the 'witch' would carry when visiting expectant mothers to tell them when a baby would be born.  This still exists today in gynecology as the uterine sound.  The mass witch killings across Europe were to establish men as the fountain of all healing and medical knowledge.  Knowledge then came from the wealthy educated male dominated classes.  I wonder how many open minded people allowed themselves to be led to watch their local witch go up in smoke and believed what they were being told by their local dignitaries about how evil their local healers were ? How they cast magic spells using their wands, cooked children, turned themselves in to black cats, or flew on their broomsticks.

Or that a donkey once spoke to a man and this was because an angel inhabited its body... it just goes to show that things written in books by the 'experts' of their day are not automatically what they seem, or worthy of keeping an open mind for.

Tibetan monks thought they had a 300-year-old yeti scalp, but when they were finally convinced to let it go off for testing, by none other than Sir Edmund Hillary, it turned out to be made of goat fur. A similar tale applies to a yeti hand, found to be human. Hair samples once sent to the FBI by the founder of a so-called bigfoot group turned out to be deer.

The only 'evidence' we have are footprints, and the first US ones were fake.

The world's leading yeti hunters, one man after them for 60 years, now claim it to be an Asian bear. The leading hunters no longer believe it is a unique animal, and given all the technology available today how could a species of large animal, totalling hundreds or thousands of individuals in order to be a viable breeding pool, remain undiscovered across several continents.

And then there's the obscure videos, which are always jerky, never settling on the subject for longer than a half second, out-of-focus, and low-fi, like some low budget found footage movie, so that nobody knows what they're looking at and can therefore easily be led.

The DPI has its own yeti, a photo which is of a man for the sake of a little enhancement. It just goes to show that people see what they want to see, and they believe what they want to believe.


« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 10:08:08 AM by eurocentric »
 

January 28, 2021, 09:27:20 AM
Reply #272

DAXXY

Guest
You have to remember also that anyone open minded about Bigfoot is actually being led.  Why ? because their behavior is being modified.  They watch the documentaries and hence the commercials.  They buy the merchandise and books and DVD's.  They go on trips at their own expense to Bigfoot events.  They need to ask themselves who is doing the leading and why ?  who is ultimately benefiting from their 'open mindedness'.
 

January 28, 2021, 10:17:02 AM
Reply #273
Offline

Nigel Evans


Shame on you, Nigel (unless you are just having fun???!!!).
kewl1
 

January 28, 2021, 10:29:00 AM
Reply #274
Offline

Nigel Evans




The only 'evidence' we have are footprints, and the first US ones were fake.


No Meldrum states that expert analysis of the relevant hairs is that they are of an unknown ape, the footprints are from a creature as agreed by several experts. There is of course the video evidence and the opinion of indigenous people who accept it as fact plus many thousands of non indigenous who claim to have seen it or heard extremely loud screams inconsistent with any other animal (i've read in Russia alone it's 5000 people including it seems Vladimir Putin - https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/vladimir-putin-sights-a-yeti-family-in-remote-siberian-mountains/ . Meldrum was involved recently in an investigation of a Siberian yeti but decided it probably a hoax.

Meldrum's case is simply that the evidence warrants serious research.
 

January 28, 2021, 12:07:49 PM
Reply #275

eurocentric

Guest
A lot of his work seems to have been dismissed by his peers as pseudoscience though. From what I have been reading Meldrum seems to be a bit of a colourful maverick in his field.

Have a read of this scientific report about the gene sequencing of many hairs sent in purportedly belonging to yeti/sasquatch/menk/alma from around the world. Examine Table 1 - not a single sample matched to any unknown animal, nor to any ape. Most common match is to a bear.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4100498/

Note the first name they thank in their acknowledgements is Reinhold Messner, who is one of the most accomplished mountaineers in the world and used to believe in the yeti, which he claimed to have seen, and went on numerous expeditions to uncover, but even he now believes it's a bear.  Meldrum gets a mention later down the list too.

Messner will have provided field samples for analysis - where does Meldrum source his in order to arrive at results entirely at odds with this scientific research and why hasn't his findings been heralded internationally and peer-reviewed as unequivocal proof?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/11/yeti-legends-real-animals-dna-bears-himalaya-science/

You cannot be serious when invoking Vladmir Putin as a reliable witness of anything. I wouldn't believe a single thing that disinforming Pinocchio ever said. I'm only surprised he hasn't claimed to have beaten a yeti in an arm wrestle.


« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 12:33:42 PM by eurocentric »
 

January 28, 2021, 12:45:27 PM
Reply #276
Offline

Nigel Evans


A lot of his work seems to have been dismissed by his peers as pseudoscience though. From what I have been reading Meldrum seems to be a bit of a colourful maverick in his field.

Have a read of this scientific report about the gene sequencing of many hairs sent in purportedly belonging to yeti/sasquatch/menk/alma from around the world. Examine Table 1 - not a single sample matched to any unknown animal, nor to any ape. Most common match is to a bear.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4100498/

Note the first name they thank in their acknowledgements is Reinhold Messner, who is one of the most accomplished mountaineers in the world and used to believe in the yeti, which he claimed to have seen, and went on numerous expeditions to uncover, but even he now believes it's a bear.  Meldrum gets a mention later down the list too.

Messner will have provided field samples for analysis - where does Meldrum source his in order to arrive at results entirely at odds with this scientific research and why hasn't his findings been heralded internationally and peer-reviewed as unequivocal proof?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/11/yeti-legends-real-animals-dna-bears-himalaya-science/

You cannot be serious when invoking Vladmir Putin as a reliable witness of anything. I wouldn't believe a single thing that disinforming Pinocchio ever said. I'm only surprised he hasn't claimed to have beaten a yeti in an arm wrestle.


Meldrum's hairs come from North America and he makes it clear that there is no dna evidence. But experts (from memory) from Russia and London Zoo amongst others say they're from a non human ape.




Strange thing for Putin to make up?
 

January 28, 2021, 01:35:39 PM
Reply #277
Offline

Ziljoe


The Putin story with the photos of the yeti's and foot prints was to be printed on the 1st of April.  lol2

Think Russia is pulling your leg Nigel lol4
 

January 28, 2021, 01:38:32 PM
Reply #278
Offline

Nigel Evans


The Putin story with the photos of the yeti's and foot prints was to be printed on the 1st of April.  lol2

Think Russia is pulling your leg Nigel lol4


Ah!  whacky1
 

January 28, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
Reply #279
Offline

Ziljoe


The media are brats at confusion.
 

January 28, 2021, 02:03:06 PM
Reply #280
Offline

Nigel Evans


The media are brats at confusion.


If the jokes on me, so be it.  kewl1
 

January 28, 2021, 03:08:15 PM
Reply #281
Offline

Ziljoe


The media are brats at confusion.


If the jokes on me, so be it.  kewl1

Cool. I used to read everything I could about the yeti , Bigfoot etc . I still get a bit spooked when out in my tent with a wood stove. I don't like going out in the dark for a call of nature. If I hear a twig snap , it's always a long night. Lol
 

January 29, 2021, 05:26:16 AM
Reply #282
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
The man who started the Bigfoot craze, in 1958, was found to have faked some footprints, and he later worked with the man who claimed to have filmed a yeti on his first stab at making a documentary, from which the following 'lovely bunch of coconuts' still photo is taken. That film is now widely considered a hoax, especially after a Hollywood special effects man later claimed he made the suit. These stunts notably followed earlier Everest climbers' internationally publicised claims to have seen a yeti in the Himalayas.



The Loch Ness monster tales go back hundreds of years, but it wasn't until a 'reputable' man photographed the 'monster', a surgeon, someone seen then, and now, as a reliable witness due to his profession, that the international public imagination caught on, and again other versions appeared in lakes around the world. Years later the surgeon's photo was proven to have been a hoax, admitted to 60 years on.

I suspect that what happens is some historians uncover redundant mythology, some of it tribal and dating back to a time when the Sun was worshipped and some animals were considered to possess supernatural powers, and in the 20th century they staged hoaxes which carried greater credibility because they appeared to have a researched lineage with the past. Then, seeing the success of the hoax, other countries developed their own versions, in the same manner the recent 2001 Space Odyssey monoliths appearing over the New Year were copied around the world.

So there is a pattern to these things, and meanwhile one thing remains a constant - there is never any evidence.

Well crazes are not a modern phenomenon. Take Financial Trading. Plenty of crazy goings on in recent times and yet go back hundreds of years and you had The South Sea Bubble and the Dutch Tulip mania etc etc. Regarding Creatures you can go back further than 1958 to find interest in the so called Big Foots of the World. Same with UFO's. As for Evidence, well Sightings are Evidence, believe it or not.
DB
 

January 29, 2021, 05:31:38 AM
Reply #283
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I found this take on the issue of Bigfoot profound and enlightening, hope you enjoy:
https://youtu.be/9ukvQfUlAog

Yes, I get carried away sometimes myself, Thank you, sarapuk.

I didn't know there was an Australian yeti!

.


Nor me. But I used to read her books when I was younger. She is very clever and sensible.
DB
 

January 29, 2021, 06:02:36 AM
Reply #284
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just because someone is an academic does not make them more believable or more trustworthy than anyone else.  Academics can also have their own agendas.  Look at the 'academics' who helped dictators like Hitler.  Academics will ride any gravy train that offers them a living where they can use their talents. They need to make a living like everyone else.  In these days of social media and 'documentaries' being made about supernatural phenomenon the film makers feel better about paying and interviewing doctor A or professor B.  It adds a veneer of academic status to the documentary's content.  It's better than just interviewing Frank C who works on a farm.  But I guarantee every academic will never offer proof of Bigfoot's existence or make anything other than non-committal comments like 'further research is needed'  as they hand the media company their contact details.  lol4  Bigfoot should be seen for what it is.  An old fashioned mythical folklore creature like dragons.

People have a right to their beliefs and many people prefer to sit on fences with their open minds.  Open mindedness is fine until someone like an academic working for a higher power comes along with an agenda and starts to fill in gaps using pseudo-intellectual language and edited video clips and lots of very definite sounding statements which are actually complete non-answers.  An open mind is like an open box. Ready to be filled by anyone, you could grow nourishing herbs in your box or you could allow someone else to put a rattlesnake in your box.

If you look at an earlier mass delusion in history 'Witchcraft'.  Witches were actually women healers in rural communities and they knew loads of knowledge but not necessarily why things worked. They would help expectant mothers and heal the sick.  The magic wand comes from a small hardwood staff the 'witch' would carry when visiting expectant mothers to tell them when a baby would be born.  This still exists today in gynecology as the uterine sound.  The mass witch killings across Europe were to establish men as the fountain of all healing and medical knowledge.  Knowledge then came from the wealthy educated male dominated classes.  I wonder how many open minded people allowed themselves to be led to watch their local witch go up in smoke and believed what they were being told by their local dignitaries about how evil their local healers were ? How they cast magic spells using their wands, cooked children, turned themselves in to black cats, or flew on their broomsticks.

Or that a donkey once spoke to a man and this was because an angel inhabited its body... it just goes to show that things written in books by the 'experts' of their day are not automatically what they seem, or worthy of keeping an open mind for.

Tibetan monks thought they had a 300-year-old yeti scalp, but when they were finally convinced to let it go off for testing, by none other than Sir Edmund Hillary, it turned out to be made of goat fur. A similar tale applies to a yeti hand, found to be human. Hair samples once sent to the FBI by the founder of a so-called bigfoot group turned out to be deer.

The only 'evidence' we have are footprints, and the first US ones were fake.

The world's leading yeti hunters, one man after them for 60 years, now claim it to be an Asian bear. The leading hunters no longer believe it is a unique animal, and given all the technology available today how could a species of large animal, totalling hundreds or thousands of individuals in order to be a viable breeding pool, remain undiscovered across several continents.

And then there's the obscure videos, which are always jerky, never settling on the subject for longer than a half second, out-of-focus, and low-fi, like some low budget found footage movie, so that nobody knows what they're looking at and can therefore easily be led.

The DPI has its own yeti, a photo which is of a man for the sake of a little enhancement. It just goes to show that people see what they want to see, and they believe what they want to believe.




Lets not forget that Sightings are Evidence.  As for experts and academics well its true that some of them do have their own agendas etc.  But not all.  People see what they see and interpret what they see in whatever way that they do.  Take that photo that gets some attention because it has been suggested that it may be a Big Foot type creature. To me its a figure that looks like a Human figure, its got a Body, 2 Legs, 2 Arms, an Head.  However I notice that the figure appears to have  2 very long Arms.  Also the Head seems attached to the Body without a Neck, now that could be because of clothing, obviously. But the Arms dont look thick as you would expect with winter clothing. So those are just a couple of things that get me thinking about that figure.
DB
 

January 29, 2021, 06:05:03 AM
Reply #285
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
A lot of his work seems to have been dismissed by his peers as pseudoscience though. From what I have been reading Meldrum seems to be a bit of a colourful maverick in his field.

Have a read of this scientific report about the gene sequencing of many hairs sent in purportedly belonging to yeti/sasquatch/menk/alma from around the world. Examine Table 1 - not a single sample matched to any unknown animal, nor to any ape. Most common match is to a bear.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4100498/

Note the first name they thank in their acknowledgements is Reinhold Messner, who is one of the most accomplished mountaineers in the world and used to believe in the yeti, which he claimed to have seen, and went on numerous expeditions to uncover, but even he now believes it's a bear.  Meldrum gets a mention later down the list too.

Messner will have provided field samples for analysis - where does Meldrum source his in order to arrive at results entirely at odds with this scientific research and why hasn't his findings been heralded internationally and peer-reviewed as unequivocal proof?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/11/yeti-legends-real-animals-dna-bears-himalaya-science/

You cannot be serious when invoking Vladmir Putin as a reliable witness of anything. I wouldn't believe a single thing that disinforming Pinocchio ever said. I'm only surprised he hasn't claimed to have beaten a yeti in an arm wrestle.

Oh dear, I dont think Vlad would take kindly to such an insult.
DB
 

January 29, 2021, 07:37:29 AM
Reply #286

eurocentric

Guest
Just because someone is an academic does not make them more believable or more trustworthy than anyone else.  Academics can also have their own agendas.  Look at the 'academics' who helped dictators like Hitler.  Academics will ride any gravy train that offers them a living where they can use their talents. They need to make a living like everyone else.  In these days of social media and 'documentaries' being made about supernatural phenomenon the film makers feel better about paying and interviewing doctor A or professor B.  It adds a veneer of academic status to the documentary's content.  It's better than just interviewing Frank C who works on a farm.  But I guarantee every academic will never offer proof of Bigfoot's existence or make anything other than non-committal comments like 'further research is needed'  as they hand the media company their contact details.  lol4  Bigfoot should be seen for what it is.  An old fashioned mythical folklore creature like dragons.

People have a right to their beliefs and many people prefer to sit on fences with their open minds.  Open mindedness is fine until someone like an academic working for a higher power comes along with an agenda and starts to fill in gaps using pseudo-intellectual language and edited video clips and lots of very definite sounding statements which are actually complete non-answers.  An open mind is like an open box. Ready to be filled by anyone, you could grow nourishing herbs in your box or you could allow someone else to put a rattlesnake in your box.

If you look at an earlier mass delusion in history 'Witchcraft'.  Witches were actually women healers in rural communities and they knew loads of knowledge but not necessarily why things worked. They would help expectant mothers and heal the sick.  The magic wand comes from a small hardwood staff the 'witch' would carry when visiting expectant mothers to tell them when a baby would be born.  This still exists today in gynecology as the uterine sound.  The mass witch killings across Europe were to establish men as the fountain of all healing and medical knowledge.  Knowledge then came from the wealthy educated male dominated classes.  I wonder how many open minded people allowed themselves to be led to watch their local witch go up in smoke and believed what they were being told by their local dignitaries about how evil their local healers were ? How they cast magic spells using their wands, cooked children, turned themselves in to black cats, or flew on their broomsticks.

Or that a donkey once spoke to a man and this was because an angel inhabited its body... it just goes to show that things written in books by the 'experts' of their day are not automatically what they seem, or worthy of keeping an open mind for.

Tibetan monks thought they had a 300-year-old yeti scalp, but when they were finally convinced to let it go off for testing, by none other than Sir Edmund Hillary, it turned out to be made of goat fur. A similar tale applies to a yeti hand, found to be human. Hair samples once sent to the FBI by the founder of a so-called bigfoot group turned out to be deer.

The only 'evidence' we have are footprints, and the first US ones were fake.

The world's leading yeti hunters, one man after them for 60 years, now claim it to be an Asian bear. The leading hunters no longer believe it is a unique animal, and given all the technology available today how could a species of large animal, totalling hundreds or thousands of individuals in order to be a viable breeding pool, remain undiscovered across several continents.

And then there's the obscure videos, which are always jerky, never settling on the subject for longer than a half second, out-of-focus, and low-fi, like some low budget found footage movie, so that nobody knows what they're looking at and can therefore easily be led.

The DPI has its own yeti, a photo which is of a man for the sake of a little enhancement. It just goes to show that people see what they want to see, and they believe what they want to believe.




Lets not forget that Sightings are Evidence.  As for experts and academics well its true that some of them do have their own agendas etc.  But not all.  People see what they see and interpret what they see in whatever way that they do.  Take that photo that gets some attention because it has been suggested that it may be a Big Foot type creature. To me its a figure that looks like a Human figure, its got a Body, 2 Legs, 2 Arms, an Head.  However I notice that the figure appears to have  2 very long Arms.  Also the Head seems attached to the Body without a Neck, now that could be because of clothing, obviously. But the Arms dont look thick as you would expect with winter clothing. So those are just a couple of things that get me thinking about that figure.

In the context of this discussion there is no witness in the DPI claiming to have seen a yeti.

An eyewitnesses interpretation of what phenomena they saw can be influenced by the lack of familiarity, fear or being directed to something by media precedence. "I saw a strange light in the sky, ergo it must be one them alien spaceships", "I saw a large hairy animal which moved in a unfamiliar manner therefore it must be a hitherto undiscovered species" (and then hair samples, if available, will disprove this).

It seems somewhat hypocritical of you to routinely dismiss more conventional theories about the DPI as "speculation and lacking evidence" and then be overly receptive of phenomena simply on the basis of an eyewitness account about a strange light in the sky they didn't recognise.

The arms of the man in the DPI 'yeti' photo are of perfectly normal proportions. I'm pretty sure most people would agree. You seem to concede this is a man now, when previously you inisisted the snow level, for which there is no scale on the full frame, was such that he must be at least 8ft tall. Ironically you prove how unreliable eyewitness 'evidence' can be.


« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 08:32:36 AM by eurocentric »
 

January 29, 2021, 03:11:17 PM
Reply #287
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just because someone is an academic does not make them more believable or more trustworthy than anyone else.  Academics can also have their own agendas.  Look at the 'academics' who helped dictators like Hitler.  Academics will ride any gravy train that offers them a living where they can use their talents. They need to make a living like everyone else.  In these days of social media and 'documentaries' being made about supernatural phenomenon the film makers feel better about paying and interviewing doctor A or professor B.  It adds a veneer of academic status to the documentary's content.  It's better than just interviewing Frank C who works on a farm.  But I guarantee every academic will never offer proof of Bigfoot's existence or make anything other than non-committal comments like 'further research is needed'  as they hand the media company their contact details.  lol4  Bigfoot should be seen for what it is.  An old fashioned mythical folklore creature like dragons.

People have a right to their beliefs and many people prefer to sit on fences with their open minds.  Open mindedness is fine until someone like an academic working for a higher power comes along with an agenda and starts to fill in gaps using pseudo-intellectual language and edited video clips and lots of very definite sounding statements which are actually complete non-answers.  An open mind is like an open box. Ready to be filled by anyone, you could grow nourishing herbs in your box or you could allow someone else to put a rattlesnake in your box.

If you look at an earlier mass delusion in history 'Witchcraft'.  Witches were actually women healers in rural communities and they knew loads of knowledge but not necessarily why things worked. They would help expectant mothers and heal the sick.  The magic wand comes from a small hardwood staff the 'witch' would carry when visiting expectant mothers to tell them when a baby would be born.  This still exists today in gynecology as the uterine sound.  The mass witch killings across Europe were to establish men as the fountain of all healing and medical knowledge.  Knowledge then came from the wealthy educated male dominated classes.  I wonder how many open minded people allowed themselves to be led to watch their local witch go up in smoke and believed what they were being told by their local dignitaries about how evil their local healers were ? How they cast magic spells using their wands, cooked children, turned themselves in to black cats, or flew on their broomsticks.

Or that a donkey once spoke to a man and this was because an angel inhabited its body... it just goes to show that things written in books by the 'experts' of their day are not automatically what they seem, or worthy of keeping an open mind for.

Tibetan monks thought they had a 300-year-old yeti scalp, but when they were finally convinced to let it go off for testing, by none other than Sir Edmund Hillary, it turned out to be made of goat fur. A similar tale applies to a yeti hand, found to be human. Hair samples once sent to the FBI by the founder of a so-called bigfoot group turned out to be deer.

The only 'evidence' we have are footprints, and the first US ones were fake.

The world's leading yeti hunters, one man after them for 60 years, now claim it to be an Asian bear. The leading hunters no longer believe it is a unique animal, and given all the technology available today how could a species of large animal, totalling hundreds or thousands of individuals in order to be a viable breeding pool, remain undiscovered across several continents.

And then there's the obscure videos, which are always jerky, never settling on the subject for longer than a half second, out-of-focus, and low-fi, like some low budget found footage movie, so that nobody knows what they're looking at and can therefore easily be led.

The DPI has its own yeti, a photo which is of a man for the sake of a little enhancement. It just goes to show that people see what they want to see, and they believe what they want to believe.




Lets not forget that Sightings are Evidence.  As for experts and academics well its true that some of them do have their own agendas etc.  But not all.  People see what they see and interpret what they see in whatever way that they do.  Take that photo that gets some attention because it has been suggested that it may be a Big Foot type creature. To me its a figure that looks like a Human figure, its got a Body, 2 Legs, 2 Arms, an Head.  However I notice that the figure appears to have  2 very long Arms.  Also the Head seems attached to the Body without a Neck, now that could be because of clothing, obviously. But the Arms dont look thick as you would expect with winter clothing. So those are just a couple of things that get me thinking about that figure.

In the context of this discussion there is no witness in the DPI claiming to have seen a yeti.

An eyewitnesses interpretation of what phenomena they saw can be influenced by the lack of familiarity, fear or being directed to something by media precedence. "I saw a strange light in the sky, ergo it must be one them alien spaceships", "I saw a large hairy animal which moved in a unfamiliar manner therefore it must be a hitherto undiscovered species" (and then hair samples, if available, will disprove this).

It seems somewhat hypocritical of you to routinely dismiss more conventional theories about the DPI as "speculation and lacking evidence" and then be overly receptive of phenomena simply on the basis of an eyewitness account about a strange light in the sky they didn't recognise.

The arms of the man in the DPI 'yeti' photo are of perfectly normal proportions. I'm pretty sure most people would agree. You seem to concede this is a man now, when previously you inisisted the snow level, for which there is no scale on the full frame, was such that he must be at least 8ft tall. Ironically you prove how unreliable eyewitness 'evidence' can be.

 I dont dismiss any theories. Iam merely pointing out that there are witnesses to the so called Big Foot type creatures. The only Evidence as far as I know in the Dyatlov Case regarding such creatures is the mention of them in that newspaper that was found pinned to near the entrance of the Tent. Now everyone interprets that photo in the way that they do. To me it looks like very long arms with no thickness. The snow level is to do with the height of the figure not the length of the arms. I dont concede anything, because I never said it was a Big Foot type creature. To me the snow appears to be about 2 foot deep near that figure, and that could make that figure up to 8 feet tall.
DB
 

January 29, 2021, 07:03:10 PM
Reply #288
Offline

RidgeWatcher


I'm with Jane.

I have spoken to three people who have seen what they describe as not a bear or a man in the woods but something else that instilled a great amount of fear in them. I would refrain from ever arrogantly assuming or even telling them that what they experienced was from reading or watching TV. Some posts are downright condescending and continuing rude. Assuming believers of subjects that they do not believe in are uneducated. Unwise mistake. They assume that others who took the same university courses they did believe exactly like they do. This is called Paternalism and Arrogance.
 

January 30, 2021, 09:45:15 AM
Reply #289

DAXXY

Guest
I'm with Jane.

I have spoken to three people who have seen what they describe as not a bear or a man in the woods but something else that instilled a great amount of fear in them. I would refrain from ever arrogantly assuming or even telling them that what they experienced was from reading or watching TV. Some posts are downright condescending and continuing rude. Assuming believers of subjects that they do not believe in are uneducated. Unwise mistake. They assume that others who took the same university courses they did believe exactly like they do. This is called Paternalism and Arrogance.

It's not paternalism or arrogance to have a different opinion to someone and explain why you think so, this is a forum where people do that.  For it to be paternalism someone has to have authority over you and make decisions for you. Here you are free to believe anything you like and so is everybody else. Nothing is personal and people state what they think.  People shouldn't be offended by someone who totally disbelieves what they choose to believe in.  This is nothing more than healthy difference of opinion.  But there is a darker facet to all this.  This is a concept that has spread from just belief in to commercialism and peoples actions.  It hasn't just remained as a belief, it has become a motivator.   Just like terrorists are motivated by beliefs that others find ridiculous.  What if someone is hurt because of this ? what if a group of youngsters go off in to the forests and come to harm, is it still OK then ?  is it still just harmless belief in fairy tales ?  I don't think so, but that is just my opinion.  There is a psychological reason why people want Bigfoot to exist.  Basically because they feel it would be a nicer world if there was still some kind of mysterious creature out there, and there is something more than what man has already discovered.    There are also growing commercial reasons because Bigfoot means big profits.  I would be interested to hear what things led you to conclude that Bigfoot exists.

https://alumni.berkeley.edu/california-magazine/just-in/2018-10-26/so-why-do-people-believe-bigfoot-anyway
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 09:57:40 AM by DAXXY »
 

January 30, 2021, 10:21:54 AM
Reply #290
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RidgeWatcher


"Never fight with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig gets happy"

Just to let the FORUM know that out of the three people I have personally known who all have nervously told me their stories, two had post graduate degrees. One of these men worked for the U.S. Government out in the field, meaning forests. The two other men are professional Alaskan fishermen, the much younger man had at the time no university degree but had worked as a fisherman in the Bearing Sea, within the last ten years or so his fishing boat went down north of the Aleutian Islands and this young man spent 8 hours in a survival suit floating in a round covered life raft before the coast guard could rescue them.

These men don't scare easily.

All of these men had seen a lot, been through a lot and had a lot of experience in nature. Yet, all of them when talking about their experiences seeing Sasquatch/Bigfoot talked almost in a scared voice and had some difficulty describing what they experienced. They were afraid. Big strong men just plain afraid and probably afraid they would be judged harshly by people who are unable to just listen.

I recently read that listen and silent have the same letters in them, since then I try to actively listen more and react less.

 

January 30, 2021, 10:36:28 AM
Reply #291

DAXXY

Guest
The quote is from George Bernard Shaw
'I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it'. One of my favorites.

Yes active listening is a good skill, but it doesn't also mean accepting everything that somebody else tells you at face value.
I wish you well in your beliefs.

 


 

January 30, 2021, 02:09:22 PM
Reply #292
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
"Never fight with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig gets happy"

Just to let the FORUM know that out of the three people I have personally known who all have nervously told me their stories, two had post graduate degrees. One of these men worked for the U.S. Government out in the field, meaning forests. The two other men are professional Alaskan fishermen, the much younger man had at the time no university degree but had worked as a fisherman in the Bearing Sea, within the last ten years or so his fishing boat went down north of the Aleutian Islands and this young man spent 8 hours in a survival suit floating in a round covered life raft before the coast guard could rescue them.

These men don't scare easily.

All of these men had seen a lot, been through a lot and had a lot of experience in nature. Yet, all of them when talking about their experiences seeing Sasquatch/Bigfoot talked almost in a scared voice and had some difficulty describing what they experienced. They were afraid. Big strong men just plain afraid and probably afraid they would be judged harshly by people who are unable to just listen.

I recently read that listen and silent have the same letters in them, since then I try to actively listen more and react less.

Nice sensible post. It reminds me of when I did the Big Cat research stuff some years ago. I have posted something else in this Forum. Hundreds of sightings and experiences over the years throughout Britain. Yet the Media and unfortunately many in the Scientific Community didnt believe it possible that Big Cats could be roaming the British Isles. It wasnt until I actually saw something myself that I took a further interest in the subject. The reports I had were amazing. So many very good witnesses including the Police and Miltary and Doctors and Nurses and Landowners and Farmers and Game Keepers and so on. There was even the case of a small Country School where a School Teacher and some Pupils were out in the Playground and heard and saw a Big Cat in nearby bushes. The Police were called and searched the area but found nothing. They told locals to be careful in the woods and fields. That was a quiet part of East Sussex with lots of big Country Estates that are private and somewhat forgotten. That story never got on the main BBC news or much news for that matter.
DB
 

January 30, 2021, 03:50:39 PM
Reply #293

DAXXY

Guest
 

January 31, 2021, 07:41:32 AM
Reply #294
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GKM