Post by: Teddy on December 07, 2022, 06:08:27 AM
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Xmas.png)
I am preparing a Xmas special for you.
It has nothing to do with my theory but something that is new for me. It opens a new dimension into the case.
The idea is not out of the world or calling for a dwarf kingdom under the mountain. It is not one person who talks about it.
It turned out many solemn Russian obsessives believe in it and I just heard about it in person from someone I deeply respect, one of the key figures in the 1959 search.
I urge you to hit that Notify button at the bottom. I will publish it right here when I am ready.
For the story to be complete I need to translate a few more interviews or else you won't know the grounds for this speculation.
It is a big surprise, I promise you. I will try to be ready for Xmas morning, when presents are opened.
Post by: Teddy on December 25, 2022, 05:49:07 AM
My New Year's wish will be not for the ability to keep my promises but for the wisdom not to make such that I can not keep.
Post by: GlennM on December 25, 2022, 05:58:27 AM
Post by: Teddy on December 30, 2022, 10:27:34 AM
First thing on the wall. I got it in Yekaterinburg in September. The same map hangs in the Dyatlov foundation.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Ural-map-thumb.jpg) (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Ural-map.jpg)
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Ural-map-thumb.jpg) (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Ural-map.jpg)
Post by: Teddy on December 30, 2022, 10:37:08 AM
PASS without DYATLOV (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/PASS-without-DYATLOV.pdf)
by Aleksandr Bobrikov (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/PASS-without-DYATLOV.pdf)
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Pass-without-Dyatlov-cover.jpg) (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/PASS-without-DYATLOV.pdf)
Askinadzi wrote to me a month ago: "I don't know if this book will be a welcome gift, but I will send it at my own risk. Please take a look. I believe the book deserves your attention. I would like to hear your opinion on it." Askinadzi is one of the most respected searchers alive that has his faculties and memory intact, but what is so charismatic about him is that he is rational, down to earth, approachable, very knowledgeable, a scientist. They all are, after all they all graduated from a prestigious institute. I am putting an emphasis on why I am offering the book to your attention. Vladimir Askinadzi is vouching for it!
I read it. I wouldn't have, at least not to the end, if it wasn't for Askinadzi. Problem is the (1) tone and the (2) fakes. But if you pass that you will learn a lot. Let's get it out of the way so we don't have to discuss it.
(1) Askinadzi worked with Bobrikov on the book for a long time. The first version was very crude, since Bobrikov was not a hiker. He offered Askinadzi co-authorship, but the latter said that the book should lose its aggressive and offensive tone, and stick to the facts. Bobrikov criticize Varsegova, Bartolomey, Sogrin, Blinov, everyone actually. Askinadzi believes that the criticism is not fair, because at the time they were no more than 22 years old. Askinadzi says that they were "under the pressure of the authorities, the information was then, and still is, hidden from us! ... they deliberately powdered our brains so that, God forbid, being eyewitnesses, we would see and guess what the authorities wanted to hide." Askinadzi says that this book especially angers the supporters of the criminal versions because it "pulls the rug from under their feet".
(2) The fakes don't really do anything for me because I know that all the free software e.g. Forensically (https://29a.ch/photo-forensics/?flp=1#forensic-magnifier) that the sites (this book included) cite are for digital photography. Bobrikov says that the negatives are manipulated but he proves it with software that tracks changes on a digital image. Once scanned, whatever is done with the negative will not show as a defect. So I don't pay attention to "the fakes". I also tried to reproduce the results from the book and it turns out Bobrikov first did things in Photoshop to enhance the contours whatever to make his point, but in any rate I will not engage in discussing fakes. Askinadzi: "There are many sites using other methods and programs that speak of mass falsification of both photos and diaries, etc. Dyatlov researchers have been exposing falsifications of documents for a long time. After all, the fact that Dyatlov reached the northern side of Otorten was known (or guessed!) by Maslennikov (his son-in-law speaks about it), Tempalov, Ortyukov, Cheglakov (*). And those are just the ones I know of. They knew about the existence of a military training ground on the northern side of Otorten."
After reading the book I decided to ask Bobrikov questions. And then the bomb dropped: Bobrikov is dead. He gave his book to Askinadzi, they worked on it for a long time, and then one day Bobrikov stopped answering. This might also account for his self-assertive language. Askinadzi calls it a "swan song". So sentiments aside, what is the value of this book? Askinadzi: "I sent a book to many of my, as it seemed to me, like-minded people, so that they could get acquainted with a completely new approach to interpreting well-known documents, statements, memoirs of those whom they themselves take to be authoritative informants, which documents they perceive as reliable, devoid of fakes."
My heart changed about this book because this is exactly what drove me and Igor to seek explanation. If you compare the testimonies of "authoritative informants" then as Bobrikov says: "I had a feeling of a logical hallucination when I tried to comprehend and combine the stories of Akselrod, Slobtsov, Sogrin and some other participants in the epic search on Kholat Syakhl pass. It’s as if a dream interferes with reality, where some absurdities from the real world suddenly become quite understandable and natural. I'm already beginning to fear for my mental state and at the same time, an understanding of what this did to the Dyatlov case researchers treading these waters for decades... There is a confusion in the dates and sequence of events. Why back in the time no one feared that they would be taken all all together in one place and forced to tell the truth? They were not afraid because the "roof" was serious and reliable and reinforced a concrete legend. Everyone is already accustomed to the fact that it was on the slope of Kholat Syakhl, exactly under the cedar tree... exactly the flooring... exactly barefoot... exactly naked... exactly they got scared, they cut the tent..."
In our book "1079" (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VF5Y5SZ/) Igor Pavlov and I explain the inconsistencies with the bodies being found twice. Bobrikov is placing the Dyatlov group on Otorten, not Kholat Syakh, but in the process of reading the book I also found out not without a surprise (Bobrikov is criticizing them) that a large circle of Dyatlov obsessives think there was a second group that was on Otorten with a special mission, that this whole charade was to cover the liquidation of the other group (in which they were pretty much successful since no one knows about them), and that the Dyatlov group was just a collateral damage that no one anticipated.
The book "PASS without DYATLOV'' has a very exploratory comparison of witness testimonies and fact discrepancies, it points out errors and omissions that one could usually attribute to the time that has passed. In any case it is a book that Askinadzi stands by and will introduce to this year's annual conference. Here is a chance for a sneak peek. I will continue adding to the post as I find more information referenced in the book or by Askinadzi (*). I think you have enough to give it a chance, sorry that it is in Russian but I believe you can use Google translator. You should be used to by now who the Woodpeckers are :)
Bottom line: this book highlights passages that we rarely read side by side with other testimonies, challenges old perceptions, and personally made me seek and translate new sources instead of feasting during the holidays. Last but not least - opens a line for communication with Vladimir Askinadzi which to me is the most precious gift. He is an extraordinary person.
Who is Who: "Vladimir Mihaylovich Askinadzi (Владимир Михайлович Аскинадзи) born in 1937, in 1959 - 5th year student of the Physics and Technology Faculty of the UPI (Department of Experimental Physics, group 517, specialty №24); lived at the address: Room 303, 66 Lenin St, Sverdlovsk; the head of the search party UPI Apr 25 - May 8. Born on Apr 10, 1937 in Voronezh in a family of builders. In 1945, after his father was recalled from the active army, he was sent to build a plant manufacturing weapons-grade plutonium in Novouralsk (Sverdlovsk-44), where his family moved in 1946. Graduated from high school №49 in Sverdlovsk (in Sverdlovsk-44). In 1954 he became a 1st year of the metallurgical faculty of the UPI (specialty - ferrous metallurgy), later (apparently - from the 2nd semester) he transferred to Phystech; from September 1959 - in pre-diploma practice. After graduating from UPI in 1960 he was assigned to All-Russian Research Institute of Technical Physics (Chelyabinsk-70, Snezhinsk), where he completed his postgraduate studies and worked for 13 years. In 1973 for family reasons was forced to move to Sevastopol. In total, he worked in the defense industry for 35 years, also as the head of department and a chief designer of specialized design-engineering department (Sevastopol). Since 1996 he has been teaching at the university. Currently - a lecturer at the Sevastopol National University of Nuclear Energy and Industry. Master of Sports of the USSR in tourism 1970. Specialty - water tourism."
See photos of Vladimir Askinadzi then and now → (https://dyatlovpass.com/bobrikov-askinadzi#photos)
Post by: Teddy on December 30, 2022, 10:38:39 AM
"To hide the truth about the murder of Dyatlov group, the authorities came up with a missile version" (https://dyatlovpass.com/askinadzi)
The Death of Hikers 1959 - Kizilov Gennadiy Ivanovich (https://dyatlovpass.com/kizilov)
Interview with Victor Potyazhenko by Olga on May 28, 2014 (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-potyazhenko-5)
Interview with Victor Potyazhenko by Helga on April 2, 2014 (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-potyazhenko-4)
Questions to Victor Vasilyevich Potyazhenko by Irina on March 20, 2014 (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-potyazhenko-3)
Interview with helicopter pilot Victor Potyazhenko by Navig on March 15, 2014 (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-potyazhenko-2)
"The tent of the students was like a swallow's nest" - interview with Victor Potyazhenko by Maria Piskareva on March 5, 2014 (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-potyazhenko-1)
"The prisoners told us - the hikers were killed, but you are looking in the wrong place" - interview with Syunikaev 2021 (https://dyatlovpass.com/syunikaev-2021)
Syunikaev interview 2009 (https://dyatlovpass.com/syunikaev-2009)
Klimenko interview 2009 (https://dyatlovpass.com/klimenko-2009)
Syunikaev interview 2008 (https://dyatlovpass.com/syunikaev-2008)
Syunikaev's letter 2007 (https://dyatlovpass.com/syunikaev-2007)
Memories of Georgiy Karpushin about the events of 1959 (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-karpushin)
Interview with Gamatina (Patrusheva) V. N. from the movie "In search of the missing Yak" (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-gamatina-3)
Interview with the widow of the pilot Patrushev Valeriya Nikolaevna Gamatina on 1 February 2009 (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-gamatina-2)
Memories of Valentina Gamatina about Gennadiy Patrushev from 1 May 1999 (https://dyatlovpass.com/interview-gamatina-1)
Vsevolоzhskaya interview 2008 (https://dyatlovpass.com/vsevolozhskaya)
When I new resource becomes available I will post it separately so you can get notification.
Post by: Teddy on December 30, 2022, 10:53:31 AM
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Map-by-Potyazhenko.jpg)
Controversial map by pilot commander Victor Potyazhenko 2018
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Map-by-Semiletov.jpg)
Map by Pyotr Semiletov based on the map by Potyazhenko 2018
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Map-by-Bobrikov.jpg)
Map by Aleksandr Bobrikov based on the map by Potyazhenko 2022
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Potyazhenko-route_1.jpg)
The route was drawn by Potyazhenko March 20, 2014 (https://dyatlovpass.com/redirect.php?lid=1&pid=21309)
Post by: Почемучка on December 30, 2022, 12:14:10 PM
Is this work read-only or is it supposed to be a review? V.A. Askinadzi, of course, does not sit idle on thematic forums. Therefore, for him, the theses from this creation seem to be news. And so the Russian martyrs of the Dyatlov Pass theme have long passed the five-legged horse of grandfather Slava ...
Post by: GlennM on December 30, 2022, 12:14:49 PM
If the military did not know what they accidentally did, then just what it that they did? Munitions, I would suspect. Surely, there would be blast debris, upturned earth, shards, and damaged trees to corroborate this idea. Next, to hide their sins, the military would go into the area, and hide evidence by cleaning up. The trouble is that a cleanup leaves evidence of cleanup. When you enter some space, you always bring something into that space (clue), and you always take something when you leave (clue). There is no perfect crime.
Post by: Почемучка on December 30, 2022, 12:33:49 PM
I just looked at https://taina.li/ just such tricks with data. There is an archive - this is the "Special Folder" of Khrushchev N.S. for 1959.
http://docs.historyrussia.org/ru/nodes/263217?query=%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BD#mode/inspect/page/6/zoom/4
(https://i.ibb.co/2ZRqPLq/6.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/Wcp91jy/5.png)
Сто лет тому назад это все обсудили. Но опять наблюдательные головы узрели факт конспирации. Ну как же. Документ же за 7 марта, а в нем упоминается 21 февраля. А тогда еще и поиски-то не начинались толком. Ну все - прокололись власти.
А ведь чего проще - пойти глянуть запись за 21 февраля в той же папке. А там и понятно, относительно какого происшествия - эта дата в 21 февраля.
A hundred years ago, everyone discussed this. But again, watchful heads saw the fact of conspiracy. Well, how about. The document is for March 7, and it mentions February 21. And even then, the search did not really begin. Well, everything - the authorities were pierced.
But what's easier - go look at the entry for February 21 in the same folder. And there it is clear what kind of incident - this date is February 21.
(https://i.ibb.co/pxm4Pm1/4.png)
Вот так и кипит дятловедение. То лошадь - с пятью ногами, то еще чего...
This is how woodpecker science boils. Either a horse - with five legs, or something else ...
Post by: Teddy on December 30, 2022, 01:36:44 PM
five-legged horse of grandfather Slava ...:))
Как угодно, I personally read your posts with very acute interest because you are bringing information, not just steering emotions. Something that you have been chewing for decades on taina.li is news here. Everything helps. Vietnamka once said that we want everything на блюдечке с голубой каемочкой (on a silver platter). Feed us information please.
Post by: GlennM on December 30, 2022, 02:14:15 PM
Does this expression have anything to do with virility? It does in the USA.
Post by: RMK on December 30, 2022, 02:35:50 PM
"Пятиногий конь" относится к этой фотографии (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), да?
Post by: Teddy on December 30, 2022, 02:54:43 PM
Does this expression have anything to do with virility?
Only in your head :))
Post by: Почемучка on December 30, 2022, 09:39:39 PM
Теодора, когда всякий уважающий себя дятловед - видит в списке литературы ссылку на старика Кизилова, то он может спокойно и с чистой совестью не читать тот шедевр, в источники литературы которого вписан старик Кизилов. Слово на букву Р - репутация.
:))
Как угодно, I personally read your posts with very acute interest because you are bringing information, not just steering emotions. Something that you have been chewing for decades on taina.li is news here. Everything helps. Vietnamka once said that we want everything на блюдечке с голубой каемочкой (on a silver platter). Feed us information please.
Theodora, when any self-respecting researcher of the topic sees a reference to the old man Kizilov in the list of references, then he can calmly and with a clear conscience not read that masterpiece, in the sources of literature of which the old man Kizilov is inscribed. The R word is reputation.
Post by: Почемучка on December 30, 2022, 10:01:27 PM
five-legged horse of grandfather Slava ...Пятиногая лошадь дедушки Славы - это такое устойчивое словосочетание типа иронии. Мем. Смысл - видеть то, чего нет и не было. В угоду своим представлениям. Соратники Кизилова, доказывая тотальную фальсификацию, - обнаружили на фото похода группы Дятлова пять ног у лошади.
Does this expression have anything to do with virility? It does in the USA.
The five-legged horse of Grandpa Slava is such a stable phrase like irony. Meme. The point is to see what is not and never was. For your own ideas. Kizilov's comrades-in-arms, proving a total falsification, found five legs on a horse in a photo of the campaign of the Dyatlov group.
Post by: Почемучка on December 30, 2022, 10:05:08 PM
The "five-legged horse" refers to this photo (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), yes?О, да Вы в теме. Замечательно.
"Пятиногий конь" относится к этой фотографии (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), да?
Oh yes, you are on point. Amazing.
Post by: Почемучка on December 30, 2022, 10:09:35 PM
Feed us information please.Не моя идея и сам В. А. Аскинадзи как-то сказал про то, что ветераны-поисковики договорились так вспоминать былое и пережитое на поисках, чтобы не бросать тень на участников группы Дятлова. Что собственно и наблюдаем в действиях Согрина, Бартоломея, Аскинадзи и так далее. Все что угодно, только не.
Теодора, вся загвоздка в том, что чем больше они стараются спрятать причину, тем больше она светится из-под этих неродных ей кирпичей-идей. Я написала на мой взгляд самое лучшее из полотен на тему разгадки. Да, полотно составное. Потому что такая история. Панорамная живопись. Так звезды сложились.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1190.msg20006#msg20006
Not my idea, and V. A. Askinadzi himself once said that veteran searchers agreed to remember the past and experienced in the search so as not to cast a shadow on the members of the Dyatlov group. What we actually observe in the actions of Sogrin, Bartholomew, Askinadzi and so on. Anything but not.
Theodora, the catch is that the more they try to hide the cause, the more it shines from under these non-native idea bricks. I wrote in my opinion the best of the paintings on the topic of clues. Yes, the canvas is composite. Because such a story. Panoramic painting. That's how the stars aligned.
Post by: Teddy on December 31, 2022, 01:19:30 AM
when any self-respecting researcher of the topic sees a reference to the old man Kizilov in the list of references, then he can calmly and with a clear conscience not read that masterpiece...You are preaching to an audience that doesn't know what Kizilov stands for, but now maybe their interest will pick up and they will learn so they can get the picture. My role is not to tell what I think is worth reading but to make available as many references as I could. Let's say - if you are graduating, we are still in first grade.
Post by: Почемучка on December 31, 2022, 02:03:33 AM
Кто ж с этим Вашим тезисом - захочет поспорить? Но мысль в том, что Майя Пискарева начинала с Кизиловым, потом разумеется они сильно и принципиально разошлись во взглядах. Настолько, что у старика Кизилова даже смерть Майи - тоже стала очередной бредовой конспирологической теорией и фальсификацией. Кизилов - это такие исходные данные, которые сразу можно считать тупиковой веткою.when any self-respecting researcher of the topic sees a reference to the old man Kizilov in the list of references, then he can calmly and with a clear conscience not read that masterpiece...You are preaching to an audience that doesn't know what Kizilov stands for, but now maybe their interest will pick up and they will learn so they can get the picture. My role is not to tell what I think is worth reading but to make available as many references as I could. Let's say - if you are graduating, we are still in first grade.
Who wants to argue with this your thesis? But the idea is that Maya Piskareva started with Kizilov, then, of course, they strongly and fundamentally differed in their views. So much so that even the death of Maya for old Kizilov also became another delusional conspiracy theory and falsification. Kizilov is such initial data that can immediately be considered a dead end branch.
Post by: Teddy on December 31, 2022, 02:16:21 AM
Она с одной стороны тетради писала песни, а с другой - дневниковые походные записи.
She wrote songs on one side of the page, and diary entries on the other.
I disagree that Grigoriev would have missed two-sides page entries. Read the transcript and translation here → (https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-3#11).
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/Grigoriev-notebook-10-11.jpg)
But instead of spinning off the roundabout I hold on and read to the end.
This is my lyric digression. I haven't encounter one single piece written on the subject of the Dyatlov group demise which is not plunging everyone into arguments before it ends. How one react to things he disagrees with is telltale of their character. I don't want to argue with you about your small speculation but to show the readers that Grigoriev actually saw and described the notebook you are referring to.
Post by: Почемучка on December 31, 2022, 02:21:31 AM
Мне придется Вам сейчас пересказывать рассказ Г.К.Григорьева. Он писал, что просил у Иванова другие дневники группы. Тот давал ему личный дневник Зины и тетрадь с песнями, которые Григорьев уже видел. И больше ничем Иванов ему помочь не мог. Общий дневник - Григорьев тоже видел. Григорьев хотел больше подробностей про сам поход. Вы же в курсе, что дневник Люды - не имеет этого содержания. Тем не менее - в документе об обнаружении палатки упоминается дневник Колмогоровой, где четко датирована последняя запись.Она с одной стороны тетради писала песни, а с другой - дневниковые походные записи.
She wrote songs on one side of the page, and diary entries on the other.
I disagree that Grigoriev would have missed two-sides page entries. Read the transcript and translation here → (https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-3#11).
Освежите это в своих знаниях. Другого ничего нет - из вариантов. У Зины была тетрадь для песен. Именно отдельная тетрадь.
Поисковики имели все дневники и могли определить почерк. Зинин почерк - очень характерен. Есть образцы почерка всех туристов. Они - в личных делах и собственноручно написанные автобиографии.
I will have to retell the story of G.K. Grigoriev now. He wrote that he asked Ivanov for other diaries. He gave him Zina's personal diary and a notebook with songs that Grigoriev had already seen. And Ivanov could do nothing more to help him. General diary - Grigoriev also saw. Grigoriev wanted more details about the trip itself. You are aware that Lyuda's diary does not have this content. Nevertheless, the document about the discovery of the tent mentions Kolmogorova's diary, where the last entry is clearly dated.
Refresh it in your knowledge. There is nothing else - from the options. Zina had a notebook for songs. It's a separate notebook.
The search engines had all the diaries and could determine the handwriting. Zinin's handwriting is very characteristic. There are handwriting samples of all tourists. They are in personal files and self-written autobiographies.
Quote
Блокнот Г. К. Григорьева Ураган в горах-3https://proza.ru/2013/11/21/1193
Quote
Из дневника погибшей группы Дятлова (общий дневник, вели по очереди) [а где даты (???)? 3.2.90г](https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-6.jpg)
1) Колмагорова. В 571? идут последние приготовления. Конс.банки с консервами, пачки с крупой (???) кашей и т.п. заталкиваем в рюкзаки. Оказалось, что забыли соль. 3кг соли в нескольких пачках расталкиваем по рюкзакам. Ищем 15коп позвонить. Берем мандолину. -пимы забыли
2) В вагоне (едут уже на север) за окном встала тайга
3) В Серове ночевали на вокзале. Им дали теплой воды напиться, натопили ком.хорошо. Пели песни. Милиционер запретил петь. У Золотарева много новых песен.
4) Встреча с учениками в Серове. Золотарев им рассказывает, что такое туризм.
5) В Ивделе на вокзале ночевали.
6) В автобусе утром отправились на Вижай. Народу и рюкзаков, лыж, было так много, что нагрузили в проходе до потолка. В одном месте пришлось вылезать и автобус вытаскивать.
7) Ночевали на Вижае, затем на 41(пос.лесорубов), потом на 2-ом Северном.
-9-Тут ночевали в избушке, забыли закрыть вьюшку и к утру все выстыло.(Где-то расстались с гр.Блинова, которая пошла по другому маршруту. Эта группа с собой взяла собаку)
8) Со 2-го Чеверного пошли на лыжах. Температура была -17-8-26град. Похолодание вечером. Ветер больше дул западный.
9) Ночевка в лесу в палатке. От печки жарко. Палатку делят на два отсека, т.е по обе стороны печки. Зина лежала с Рустиком и спор(?) начнется с Колеватовым. Так в лесу ночевали в палатке несколько раз. Раскидывали палатку обычно вечером при костре, на котором готовили пищу.
10) Последние записи говорят о том, что идти очень трудно. Лыжи постоянно утопают в снегу. Несколько раз пробовали идти по реке Ауспии, но часто под снегом попадалась вода (наледь), лыжи постоянно покрывались льдом. Приходилось останавливаться счищать его. Уходило много времени. Снова покидали реку и уходили на ее берега, и снова глубоко тонули в снегу. Через каждые 10 минут меняли первого, часто отдыхали. Дятлов разработал новый способ идти. Первый, положив рюкзак в снегу, шел 5мин. Затем отходил в сторону, его менял второй. А он возвращался за рюкзаком и догонял группу. Так шли лучше и беспрерывно, до этого метода
-10-очень часто отдыхали. При таком методе очень трудно идти второму.
10) Дорогой встречали следы манси, их знаки, засечки. Местами шли по их тропам.
11) При костре растянули палатку. Для костра не стали рыть в снегу яму: очень устали. Закусили в палатке и легли спать. Поднимались в 8(???) Уходили около 10ч
12) Есть такая запись. Как хорошо, тепло в палатке. Не верится, что здесь, за многие десятки километров от селения(?), около подножия Ур.хребта можно так хорошо уснуть в палатке.
13) Последняя запись гласит о том, что ветер со скор.взлетающего самолета. Все метет. Деревья чахлые. Идти очень трудно.
14) Рюкзаки тяжелые. Говорится, что когда ехали на 2-ой север, т.е когда рюкзаки везли на лошади, идти было очень хорошо!
15) Почему Юдин ушел. Пишут о Юдине, который остается и провожает их до 2-го Северного только лишь затем, чтобы там для коллекции институту набрать камней. Но там особенно ничего не нашли. Побывали в камералке.
9. Юдин не заболел. Этот дневник о походе, общий Иванов Л.Н. назвал самым полным и подробным. Затем он мне дал рукописный дневник, как он сказал – это З.Колмогоровой. Но он у меня переписан и я взамен попросил дру
-11-гой, так как он все дневники мне не дал. Тогда он дал дневник, как сказ(?) З.Колмогоровой, но это оказалась записная книжка с песнями, которые они переписывали у Золотарева.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-29.jpg)
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zina-Kolmogorova-diary-13.jpg)
П.С. У меня не домыслы. У меня исключительно тщательный анализ имеющихся данных. И выводы не на пустом месте.
Личный дневник Зины - ни следствие, ни поисковики не решались делать вещественным доказательством. Да и найден он был скорее всего в Ивделе. Не думаю, что Зина бросала его на показ. Это было очень личным.
P.S. I don't have speculation. I have an exceptionally thorough analysis of the available data. And the conclusions are not empty.
Zina's personal diary - neither the investigation nor the search engines dared to make material evidence. Yes, and it was most likely found in Ivdel. I do not think that Zina threw him to the show. It was very personal.
Post by: Manti on December 31, 2022, 02:52:19 AM
The "five-legged horse" refers to this photo (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), yes?I see four legs and a tail.
"Пятиногий конь" относится к этой фотографии (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), да?
Post by: Почемучка on December 31, 2022, 03:00:01 AM
Это хорошая примета.
I see four legs and a tail.
This is a good omen.
Post by: Teddy on December 31, 2022, 03:06:33 AM
Zina's personal diary - neither the investigation nor the search engines dared to make material evidence. Yes, and it was most likely found in Ivdel. I do not think that Zina threw him to the show. It was very personal.Are you saying there is a diary missing, not this one: https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova-diary
and not what Grigoriev refers to as a notebook with songs?
Post by: Почемучка on December 31, 2022, 03:12:11 AM
Этот личный дневник Зины до сих пор хранится вроде у родных Зины. Его вернули родным.
You are saying there is a diary missing, not this one: https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova-diary ?
Нет тетради с песнями. Которая видимо и служила для дублированных записей о событиях на маршруте.
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-29.jpg
Это нормальная практика у советских студентов. Писать с обоих сторон. Если с бумагой - дефицит. Гляньте в дневник Люды. У неё не было личной тетради для песен, она писала песню - в свой дневник.
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-lyudmila-dubinina-diary-13.jpg)
This personal diary of Zina is still kept by Zina's relatives. He was returned to his family.
There is no songbook. Which apparently served for duplicate records of events on the route.
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-29.jpg
This is a normal practice among Soviet students. Write on both sides. If with paper - shortage. Look at Luda's diary. She did not have a personal notebook for songs, she wrote a song - in her diary.
Post by: Teddy on December 31, 2022, 03:07:03 AM
I am not arguing, I am trying to clarify your point. You are saying that there is a yet another diary, we haven't seen, that has songs on one side of the page and personal entries from Zina on the other side of the page?
Post by: Почемучка on December 31, 2022, 03:15:05 AM
They all write on both sides of the page. What I meant songs on one side and something else on the other. Isn't this what you mean?
I am not arguing, I am trying to clarify your point. You are saying that there is a yet another diary, we haven't seen, that has songs on one side of the page and personal entries from Zina on the other side of the page?
Это остатки нам от того, что было песенником Зины. Иванов давал его Григорьев как дневник. Песен в нем было много, а записей походных - всего две. Поэтому Григорьеву этот документ ничем не помог. Он про это и записал. Он посчитал его песенником. А Иванов посчитал - дневником. С точною датою. А в личном дневнике Зины - там вообще 30 февраля 1959 года.
https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-case-files-29.jpg
Вы же видите даты?
24 января - когда Зина видит Юру Дорошенко на перроне Свердловского вокзала с другою девушкою.
30 января - это после разговоров с итогом "Ловелас так ловелас"
These are the remnants to us from what was Zina's songbook. Ivanov gave it to Grigoriev as a diary. There were a lot of songs in it, but there were only two recordings of marching songs. Therefore, this document did not help Grigoriev. He wrote about it. He considered him a songwriter. And Ivanov considered it a diary. With the exact date. And in Zina's personal diary - she is generally on February 30, 1959.
Do you see the dates?
January 24 - when Zina sees Yura Doroshenko on the platform of the Sverdlovsk railway station with another girl.
January 30 - this is after talking with the result of "Lovelace so Lovelace"
Post by: Teddy on December 31, 2022, 03:31:00 AM
Added later: But you are saying that the rest were songs only.
Post by: Почемучка on December 31, 2022, 03:45:24 AM
This is when it pays to hold on! This is a revelation for me, that the copy of the diary that is in the case files as Kolmogorova's is actually Kolmogorova's, but they didn't publish all pages, did I get it right?Другого из имеющейся информации - не получается. Я это открытие сдела в прошлом году. Осенило, когда была очередная битва с оппонентами. Основная масса текста - были песни. Как и положено в песеннике. И только с другой стороны - две записи про дни похода. Самые тяжелые дни для Зины.
Added later: But you are saying that the rest were songs only.
Г. К. Григорьев - это вообще потерянный клад. Он знал Н.Огнева еще в 1958 году. Писал о нем в статье. Такую колоритную личность - трудно не запомнить. И вот он первым из всех читает личный дневник Зины Колмогоровой и там полное описание внешности Н.Огнева.
Какие как Вы думаете он шаги - мог предпринять? Наверное искать встречи с Огневым? Пытаться с ним поговорить позже?
Other of the available information - does not work. I made this discovery last year. It dawned on me when there was another battle with opponents. The bulk of the lyrics were songs. As it should be in a songbook. And only on the other hand - two entries about the days of the campaign. The most difficult days for Zina.
GK Grigoriev is generally a lost treasure. He knew N. Ognev back in 1958. Wrote about it in an article. Such a colorful personality is hard not to remember. And now he is the first of all to read the personal diary of Zina Kolmogorova and there is a complete description of the appearance of N. Ognev.
What steps do you think he could take? Probably look for a meeting with Ognev? Try to talk to him later?
Post by: Teddy on December 31, 2022, 03:48:27 AM
Post by: Почемучка on December 31, 2022, 10:56:10 PM
I learn a lot.
Учитесь. Включайте сердце. Вы там были на склоне 1079 и ходили по осколкам разбитого сердца Зиночки. Я там не была и просто ладонью над картой - чувствую это. Она была солнышком. Все поисковики от УПИ - были мальчишками, сердцам которых было теплее от её улыбки и брошенного вскользь озорного взгляда. Они - никогда её не сдадут. Под пытками не сознаются - о том, что знают в чем причина.
Learn. Turn on your heart. You were there on slope 1079 and walked over the fragments of Zinochka's broken heart. I was not there and just with my palm over the map - I feel it. She was the sun. All the search engines from UPI were boys whose hearts were warmer from her smile and casual mischievous glance. They will never give it up. Under torture, they do not confess - that they know what the reason is.
Post by: GlennM on January 01, 2023, 03:15:04 PM
Post by: amashilu on January 01, 2023, 03:41:09 PM
What the H']] Is this all about? Are we doing hot shower songs on the forum? I thought we could do better.
I must say, I agree. This is not an appropriate post.
Post by: Почемучка on January 01, 2023, 08:25:37 PM
What the H']] Is this all about? Are we doing hot shower songs on the forum? I thought we could do better.Я ждала этого несогласия. Давайте на все посмотрим - в лоб.
Мне сложно понять, насколько Вы перечли все воспоминания ветеранов поисков. Будем считать - Вы их просмотрели хотя бы наискосок.
В них - одна цепляющая особенность. Про каждого участника из группы Дятлова - есть воспоминания без позитива. Хоть кто-нибудь ради справедливости - вспомнил и рассказал о нем что-то не особо приятное.
Есть один участник - о котором только слова восторга, удивления и симпатии. Это - Зина Колмогорова. Ответ давно лежит на самом виду. Все об него - спотыкаются.
Г. К. Григорьев только перечитывая Зинин личный дневник - уже сразу откровенно писал
I expected this disagreement. Let's look at everything - in the forehead.
It is difficult for me to understand how much you have reread all the memories of search veterans. Let's assume - you looked at them at least obliquely.
They have one catchy feature. About each participant from the Dyatlov group - there are memories without positive. For the sake of justice, at least someone remembered and told something not very pleasant about him.
There is one participant - about which only words of delight, surprise and sympathy. This is Zina Kolmogorova. The answer lies in plain sight for a long time. Everyone stumbles about him.
G.K. Grigoriev, only rereading Zinin's personal diary, immediately wrote frankly
Quote
Блокнот Г. К. Григорьева Ураган в горах-3https://proza.ru/2013/11/21/1193
Quote
Только в рюкзаке Зины Колмогоровой сохранился дневник. Я его переписал потом. Когда я переписывал дневник, мои губы шептали: "Зина, милая, я никогда не видел тебя, но мне так жалко тебя".
Даже о ней мертвой, кому довелось увидеть её в морге - только слова удивления и восхищения.
Even about her dead, who happened to see her in the morgue - only words of surprise and admiration.
http://samlib.ru/p/piskarewa_m_l/pavlov.shtml
Quote
Папа мой, Василий Алексеевич Павлов, первый заместитель председателя облисполкома, тоже был на поисках. При нем нашли 4 трупа, и потом он был на вскрытии Зины Колмогоровой...
Папа наверняка знал больше, чем остальные, но ничего никогда более не рассказывал, умел держать язык за зубами. Единственное, что сказал, что "у Зины очень красивая фигура".
Что Вы решили сделать лучше? Правду? Правда всегда такая как есть. Если не закрывать на неё глаза.
What did you decide to do better? The truth? The truth is always the way it is. If you don't close your eyes.
Post by: GlennM on January 01, 2023, 08:41:49 PM
Post by: Почемучка on January 01, 2023, 09:01:41 PM
I must say, I agree. This is not an appropriate post.
Да куда ж с добром...Фотографии в морге погибших участников - засмотрены до дыр, уже мало и этого. Их - раскрасили чтоб ничего не упустить. Чтобы "по запаху" - выйти на причину. Все видят картинку и не собираются видеть энергетику. Я могу это понять. Хочется сложного. Вместо простого - как всегда это бывает.
Я полагаю, Вы читаете на русском языке. Давайте-ка я Вам все ссылки на Зинины тексты.
Yes, where with the good ... Photos in the morgue of the dead participants - looked to the holes, this is already not enough. They are painted so as not to miss anything. To "by smell" - go to the cause. Everyone sees the picture and is not going to see the energy. I can understand it. It is always more interesting than complexity and fantasies. Instead of simple - as always it happens.
I assume you read in Russian. Let me give you all the links to Zina's texts.
https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova-diary
https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova?flp=1#letter2
https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova?flp=1#letter6
https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova?flp=1#letter3
https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova?flp=1#letter1
Post by: Почемучка on January 01, 2023, 09:11:30 PM
You are still doing it and being snarky to boot. Not appreciated. Let's move on please. If you have a point to make, please do so directly and translate it so there is no confusion. When you use Russian slang and Russian metaphors, things get lost in the translation. If you think you know something, then say it.. Truth is simple, my friend.
Когда мне Гугл -переводчик дает перевод Ваших слов - у меня седины на голове прибавляется. Вы взялись понять русскую историю - без понимания русского языка. Без восприятия энергетической составляющей русских слов. У нас слова - чем-то наполнены. Это - не трупы. У нас слова - живые. Как Вы поймете о чем пишет Зина своей подруге Лиде? Как? Если для Вас весь смысл сжимается к "мумии"?
Вы просите Вам переводить так, чтоб до Вас дошло все содержание. Как? Вы надеюсь понимаете - что значит слово содержание? Это не только начертание букв на белом фоне.
When Google Translate gives me a translation of your words, my head grows gray. You undertook to understand Russian history - without understanding the Russian language. Without the perception of the energy component of Russian words. Our words are filled with something. These are not corpses. Our words are alive. How will you understand what Zina writes to her friend Lida? How? If for you the whole meaning shrinks to "mummy"?
You ask you to translate in such a way that all the content reaches you. How? I hope you understand - what does the word content mean? This is not only the inscription of letters on a white background.
Post by: Почемучка on January 01, 2023, 09:31:43 PM
Truth is simple, my friend.Хорошо, давайте возьмем прием из алгебры. Доказательство от противного.
Что Вы поняли из всех моих объяснений? Кратко. Как формулу.
Я Вас спрошу только одно как наводящий вопрос. Вы сами - любили?
Не делили постель, не соблазняли и не сами соблазнялись. Любили? Когда если любовь взаимная - весь мир весна, а когда неудачная - весь мир холодный омут? Столько русских писателей пытались донести эти состояния души, когда душа летает и когда замерзает. Столько вообще писателей - потратило на это своих изумительной точности слов...
Okay, let's take a trick from algebra. Proof by contradiction.
What did you understand from all my explanations? Briefly. Like a formula.
I will ask you only one thing as a leading question. Did you love?
It is understood: to love is not to share a bed, seduce or be seduced. Loved? When if love is mutual - the whole world is spring, and when unsuccessful - the whole world is a cold whirlpool? So many Russian writers tried to convey these states of the soul, when the soul flies and when it freezes. So many writers in general - spent their amazing accuracy of words on this ...
Post by: amashilu on January 02, 2023, 02:40:45 AM
Post by: Почемучка on January 02, 2023, 03:15:33 AM
This forum has deteriorated. I will keep checking it, but will not post again until the level of intelligence rises.Спасибо. Русские никогда не обижаются когда их IQ (intelligence quotient) недооценивают. Это наша главная военная тайна.
Если Вам нравится считать что в поход пошли терминаторы, на которых напали другие дикие терминаторы, - воля Ваша.
Истина останется той что и была. В тот роковой поход пошли люди. Живые, со своими чувствами, переживаниями. Молодые и настоящие.
Кто-то тут ненароком бросил вполне здравый слоган. То была бомба. Психологическая бомба. В какой-то момент просто сдетонировало.
А погода добавила разрушительных последствий.
Thank you. Russians never take offense when their IQ (intelligence quotient) is underestimated. This is our main military secret.
If you like to think that the terminators went on a campaign, which were attacked by other wild terminators, you will.
The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.
Post by: Ziljoe on January 02, 2023, 03:33:01 AM
Post by: Manti on January 02, 2023, 07:26:56 AM
But I have read your other post which posits that a member of the Dyatlov group was in the KGB and that is why the case was covered up. And now you are saying, not saying, poetically suggesting that Zina was in love, or someone was in love with Zina, and this lead to internal conflict in the group? Please elaborate
The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.
Post by: Почемучка on January 02, 2023, 07:50:42 AM
Ok I think things might be getting lost in translation here and maybe cultural differences also play a part.Печально. Вот что называется трудности перевода. Я про утаивание чего-то из впечатлений/знаний - говорила в отношении поисковиков от УПИ. Ведь именно от них нам досталось максимально информации? Аскинадзи В.А. проговорился, что между ними договорено о том, чтобы не бросать тень на группу Дятлова. Ну то есть чтобы все причины - уводить от подозрений на самих участников группы Дятлова.
But I have read your other post which posits that a member of the Dyatlov group was in the KGB and that is why the case was covered up. And now you are saying, not saying, poetically suggesting that Zina was in love, or someone was in love with Zina, and this lead to internal conflict in the group?
Sadly. This is what is called translation difficulties. I'm talking about withholding something from impressions / knowledge - I spoke about search engines from UPI. After all, it was from them that we got the most information? Askinadzi V.A. let slip that it was agreed between them not to cast a shadow on the Dyatlov group. Well, that is, for all the reasons - to divert suspicion from the members of the Dyatlov group themselves.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1188.msg20029#msg20029
Из того факта, что все поисковики были знакомы с Зиною и очень симпатизировали ей и именно о ней нет ни одного дурного воспоминания: можно прийти к выводу что именно она как-то и связана именно непосредственно с гибелью всей группы. И эта причина - понятно и документально зафиксирована.
From the fact that all the search engines were familiar with Zina and were very sympathetic to her, and it was about her that there was not a single bad memory: one can conclude that it was she who was somehow connected directly with the death of the entire group. And this reason is clear and documented.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1188.msg20083#msg20083
Именно психологическое состояние Зины - было той самой бомбой, которая сдетонировала как только случилась ночевка на склоне 1079. Какая-то бестактность и необходимость быть очень близко рядом с тем, кто признался что он ловелас и ничего серьезного не хотел с Зиною. Бестактностью мог быть боевой листок "Вечерний Отортен". Там как раз укол в сторону Зины и её бывшего парня Юры.
It was Zina's psychological state that was the very bomb that detonated as soon as the overnight stay on slope 1079 happened. Some kind of tactlessness and the need to be very close to someone who admitted that he was a womanizer and did not want anything serious with Zina. The combat sheet "Evening Otorten" could be a faux pas. There is just an injection in the direction of Zina and her ex-boyfriend Yura.
Please elaborate
The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.
КГБ - не было заинтересовано в том, чтобы история гибели была неафишированной. Наоборот, из этой печали для СССР - сделали преимущество. Историю подали как связь с неудачными военными испытаниями. Это игра разведок, чтобы думали что там достаточно недалеко действующий ракетный полигон. А его еще осенью 1958 года строить передумали. Именно по плохим климатическим условиям.
А про Юру Дорошенко и КГБ: это попытка обосновать - зачем он пошел в поход с этой именно группой.
The KGB was not interested in keeping the story of the death unpublished. On the contrary, they made an advantage out of this sadness for the USSR. The story was presented as a connection with unsuccessful military tests. This is a game of reconnaissance, so that they think that there is an operating missile range nearby enough. And in the autumn of 1958 they changed their minds about building it. It is due to bad climatic conditions.
And about Yura Doroshenko and the KGB: this is an attempt to justify why he went on a campaign with this particular group.
Post by: Manti on January 02, 2023, 09:03:22 AM
When I read the diaries - a while ago now - the impression I got was that the girls, I wouldn't call it love, but had a certain infatuation... for the bearded fella they met at District 41. Ognev.
Post by: Почемучка on January 02, 2023, 10:33:39 AM
Interesting, thank you.
When I read the diaries - a while ago now - the impression I got was that the girls, I wouldn't call it love, but had a certain infatuation... for the bearded fella they met at District 41. Ognev.
Нет, там любовью и не пахло. И даже увлечением - это не назвать. Скорее всего - интерес как к представителю около криминального мира. Уголовные элементы - большие таланты по созданию образа рыцарей кинжала и кастета.
No, there was no love there. And even a hobby is not to call it. Most likely - interest as a representative of the criminal world. Criminal elements are great talents for creating the image of the knights of the dagger and brass knuckles.
Post by: Ziljoe on January 02, 2023, 11:02:32 AM
I am struggling a little to understand. I interpret you are implying that Zina's love for Doroshenko may have been the trigger.
You mention the "Evening Otorten" and I suspect you refer to this entry.
SPORT
A team of radio technicians including comrades Doroshenko and Kolmogorova set a new world record for portable stove assembly - 1 hour 02 min. 27,4 sec.
I must admit that it seems sarcastic and humorous and written by one of the others. It gives some validation to the "Evening Otorten" actually existing. I would interpret that the author was noting the lengthy time spent in the tent by the couple. This may have been a rekindling of intimacy only to be rejected again.
You also bring my attention to Zinas diary entry on 28/1/59( although written 28/2/58).
Lunch was an hour at 4 pm
After lunch we did just one more hike and stopped to rest.
I mended the tent. We lay down to sleep. Igor was rude the whole evening, I just couldn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove.
I now read this statement from a different perspective. "Igor was rude the whole evening, I just couldn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."
Given the size of the tent and lack of space , Zina chose to lie on the wood. It makes me wonder now that Igor's rudeness was not of a verbal nature and it was physical distance that Zina required?.
There seems that there could have been some sort of uncomfortable dynamic going within the group and it has been mentioned before. But would even some kind of fallout between 2/3 people cause the leaving of the tent?
I suspect you have more to add. Please don't leave us hanging.
Post by: Почемучка on January 02, 2023, 11:15:01 AM
Hi Почемучка.
I am struggling a little to understand. I interpret you are implying that Zina's love for Doroshenko may have been the trigger.
You mention the "Evening Otorten" and I suspect you refer to this entry.
SPORT
A team of radio technicians including comrades Doroshenko and Kolmogorova set a new world record for portable stove assembly - 1 hour 02 min. 27,4 sec.
I must admit that it seems sarcastic and humorous and written by one of the others. It gives some validation to the "Evening Otorten" actually existing. I would interpret that the author was noting the lengthy time spent in the tent by the couple. This may have been a rekindling of intimacy only to be rejected again.
О Боги перевода на английский язык...Скорее всего автор заметки про спортивные достижения просто наблюдал именно тот эпизод, после которого в дневнике Зины появилась короткая и безнадежная запись "Ловелас так ловелас".
(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Zina-Kolmogorova-diary-13.jpg)
Я уже моральную травму получила, поясняя - чем различаются представления о серьезности чувств и намерений для мужского и женского населения. Зина написала про это - прямо словами в своем письме Лиде от 1958 года. То что для девушек считается - падением репутации, то для парней - пустяки. Подумаешь позажимал по темным углам и лез целоваться.
Oh Gods of translation into English ... Most likely, the author of the article about sports achievements simply observed exactly the episode, after which a short and hopeless entry "Lovelace so Lovelace" appeared in Zina's diary. I have already received a moral injury, explaining how the ideas about the seriousness of feelings and intentions differ for the male and female population. Zina wrote about this - directly in words in her letter to Lida from 1958. What for girls is considered a fall in reputation, for guys it's nothing. Just think, he squeezed in the dark corners and climbed to kiss.
You also bring my attention to Zinas diary entry on 28/1/59( although written 28/2/58).
Lunch was an hour at 4 pm
After lunch we did just one more hike and stopped to rest.
I mended the tent. We lay down to sleep. Igor was rude the whole evening, I just couldn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove.
I now read this statement from a different perspective. "Igor was rude the whole evening, I just couldn't recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."
Given the size of the tent and lack of space , Zina chose to lie on the wood. It makes me wonder now that Igor's rudeness was not of a verbal nature and it was physical distance that Zina required?.
Игорь злился не из-за ревности. До него дошло - что Зина может выйти на стадию кипения. Он увидел свою ошибку. Кого-то нужно было не брать в поход. Либо Зину, либо Юру.
Я сразу скажу, что Игорь - на мое понимание не питал к Зине уж таких сильных чувств. Ни один нормальный влюбленный - не позволит находиться рядом бывшему. Ни один. А Дятлов был Козерогом - это вообще невозможно для них. Они и так в себе сомневаются.
Igor was not angry because of jealousy. It dawned on him that Zina could enter the boiling stage. He saw his mistake. Someone had to be taken on a hike. Either Zina or Yura.
I’ll say right away that Igor, to my understanding, didn’t have such strong feelings for Zina. Not a single normal lover will allow the former to be near. No one. And Dyatlov was Capricorn - this is generally impossible for them. They doubt themselves anyway.
There seems that there could have been some sort of uncomfortable dynamic going within the group and it has been mentioned before. But would even some kind of fallout between 2/3 people cause the leaving of the tent?
I suspect you have more to add. Please don't leave us hanging.
Как говорится: влюбленный и сумасшедший для медицины - одинаковы. Крайняя степень отчаянья может выливаться во многое. Люди жить не хотят и что-то с собою делают. А если была бестактность, то Зина могла заполучить очень нервный срыв. Выдержанные и тренированные военные летчики - отправляли самолеты в пике к земле. Чтобы был только взрыв и конец. Потому что не видели перспективы в своей любви, а тут - какая-то девочка...
As the saying goes: in love and crazy (insane) for medicine - the same. The extreme degree of despair can result in many things. People do not want to live and do something with themselves. And if there was tactlessness, then Zina could get a very nervous breakdown. Seasoned and trained military pilots sent planes in a dive to the ground. So that there was only an explosion and an end. Because they did not see the prospects in their love, and here - some kind of girl ...
Post by: Зайцев on January 02, 2023, 11:23:48 AM
Допустим, ссора в группе. Откуда поломанные рёбра двух участников, замерзания через 6-8 часов тройки на склоне, валенки, один в палатке, другой на ноге ? Как это всё возможно технически ?Interesting, thank you.
When I read the diaries - a while ago now - the impression I got was that the girls, I wouldn't call it love, but had a certain infatuation... for the bearded fella they met at District 41. Ognev.
Нет, там любовью и не пахло. И даже увлечением - это не назвать. Скорее всего - интерес как к представителю около криминального мира. Уголовные элементы - большие таланты по созданию образа рыцарей кинжала и кастета.
No, there was no love there. And even a hobby is not to call it. Most likely - interest as a representative of the criminal world. Criminal elements are great talents for creating the image of the knights of the dagger and brass knuckles.
For example, a quarrel in a group. Where did the broken ribs of two participants come from, freezing after 6-8 hours of the troika on the slope, felt boots, one in the tent, the other on the leg? How is this technically possible?
Post by: Почемучка on January 02, 2023, 11:35:03 AM
Допустим, ссора в группе. Откуда поломанные рёбра двух участников, замерзания через 6-8 часов тройки на склоне, валенки, один в палатке, другой на ноге ? Как это всё возможно технически ?
For example, a quarrel in a group. Where did the broken ribs of two participants come from, freezing after 6-8 hours of the troika on the slope, felt boots, one in the tent, the other on the leg? How is this technically possible?
Там могла быть не ссора. А мордобой. Я потом прорисую эту картину маслом.
There might not have been a fight. And a scuffle. I will then paint this picture in oil.
Post by: Ziljoe on January 02, 2023, 12:39:25 PM
My on line translator has not been great, plus a bit of ignorance on my part, I shall openly embarrass my self. (Might be some others here). :0)
It was coming up "lovelace so Lovelace" , having had a more refined Google. I could find the interpretation of ,"ladie's man just/that/so ladie's man". This gives far more context.
So the picture I'm getting, is that Zina may of been humiliated, or at least that's how she felt in her own heart . The "Evening Otorten" was the bookmark to be left at the high point on Otorten, which would left for the next group of tourists to find. If my memory is correct there is no original copy of the "Evening Otorten" and has always been questioned of its existence.
This interpretation gives credibility to its existence and ties in with the groups internal relationships .
I'm not sure what you're thinking happened but I can see that this may have caused hurt in Zina. Whether Zina stormed off out of the tent, maybe by cutting her way out or sabotaging the tent so the hike had to be aborted. The "Evening Otorten" would be a bookmark for others to read? It does seem tactless although others may have not have understood her feelings for Yuri.
Igor may not have had strong passion for Zina , but her diary entry suggests wondering hands, so she moved to sleep on the wood. This is of course speculative .
To think outside of the box, I could imagine the group eating their food after settling down for their overnight camp. , someone has written the "Evening Otorten" and it is read out loud for entertainment. There may have been laughter at Zina's expense and this is the trigger. ?
Post by: RMK on January 02, 2023, 02:27:20 PM
I think the "fifth leg" is either the horse's tail, or is part of the sleigh.The "five-legged horse" refers to this photo (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), yes?I see four legs and a tail.
"Пятиногий конь" относится к этой фотографии (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), да?
You know, there was a user, Gorojanin, who posted a thread (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=537.0) in 2020 to make the case that all of the Dyatlovites' photos taken after January 26 were forged. He considered the "five-legged horse" to be evidence that the photo (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg) was a cut-and-paste job. He didn't seem to make many converts...
Я думаю, что "пятая нога" - это либо хвост лошади, либо часть саней.
Вы знаете, был пользователь Gorojanin, который опубликовал ветку (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=537.0) в 2020 году, чтобы доказать, что все фотографии Дятловцев, сделанные после 26 января, были подделаны. Он счел "пятиногую лошадь" доказательством того, что фотография (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg) была вырезана и вставлена. Похоже, у него было не так уж много обращенных...
Ok I think things might be getting lost in translation here and maybe cultural differences also play a part.I agree with Manti. Почемучка, you write many words, but the translation machine is not very good at preserving their meaning in its English output.
Я согласен с Manti. Почемучка, вы пишете много слов, но машина перевода не очень хорошо сохраняет их значение в своих выходных данных на английском языке.
Post by: Почемучка on January 02, 2023, 10:35:22 PM
"Вечерний Отортен" - это внутренняя жизнь группы. Стенгазета. Он не предназначался чтоб его оставлять в туре как записку.
To think outside of the box, I could imagine the group eating their food after settling down for their overnight camp. , someone has written the "Evening Otorten" and it is read out loud for entertainment. There may have been laughter at Zina's expense and this is the trigger. ?
Но его статья про спортивные достижения - это сильный такой укол Зины. Скорее всего это и есть триггер.
"Evening Otorten" is the inner life of the group. Wall newspaper. It was not meant to be left on tour as a note.
But his article about sporting achievements is such a strong injection of Zina. This is most likely the trigger.
Post by: Почемучка on January 02, 2023, 10:42:32 PM
I think the "fifth leg" is either the horse's tail, or is part of the sleigh.The "five-legged horse" refers to this photo (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), yes?I see four legs and a tail.
"Пятиногий конь" относится к этой фотографии (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), да?
You know, there was a user, Gorojanin, who posted a thread (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=537.0) in 2020 to make the case that all of the Dyatlovites' photos taken after January 26 were forged. He considered the "five-legged horse" to be evidence that the photo (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg) was a cut-and-paste job. He didn't seem to make many converts...
Я думаю, что "пятая нога" - это либо хвост лошади, либо часть саней.
Вы знаете, был пользователь Gorojanin, который опубликовал ветку (https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=537.0) в 2020 году, чтобы доказать, что все фотографии Дятловцев, сделанные после 26 января, были подделаны. Он счел "пятиногую лошадь" доказательством того, что фотография (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg) была вырезана и вставлена. Похоже, у него было не так уж много обращенных...
Только не поминайте лихо, пока оно - тихо. Это я насчет - Горожанина. Он уже всех достал своими взглядами. Там одновременно и край саней и хвост. Совпало так при движении. Физика раскачивания хвоста и физика шатания тянутых саней.
Just do not remember famously while it is quiet. It's me about - Citizen. He already got everyone with his looks. There is both the edge of the sleigh and the tail. Coincidentally so when moving. The physics of tail swinging and the physics of staggering of a pulled sled.
Машина перевода - это что-то. Мой оригинальный текст - только на английской раскладке. На русской - он повторно транслитируется. И там такой текст порою получается - что кондрашка может хватить. Мало слов - не получается. Такова особенность русского языка.
I agree with Manti. Почемучка, you write many words, but the translation machine is not very good at preserving their meaning in its English output.
Я согласен с Manti. Почемучка, вы пишете много слов, но машина перевода не очень хорошо сохраняет их значение в своих выходных данных на английском языке.
The translation machine is something. My original text is in English layout only. In Russian - it is re-translated. And there such a text sometimes turns out - that kondrashka can be enough. Few words - it does not work. Such is the peculiarity of the Russian language.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1127.msg20075#msg20075
Post by: Ehtnisba on January 03, 2023, 12:11:36 PM
😁The "five-legged horse" refers to this photo (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), yes?I see four legs and a tail.
"Пятиногий конь" относится к этой фотографии (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-unknown-camera-film5-07.jpg), да?
I see 5 heads, one leg and three tails, but this that mean all along the horse was a "lamya" undercover and ate them all, then got sick and vomitted 3 times starting from the cedar, running uphill and finally releasing himself by the the last meal into the ravine 😆😆😁😁
Post by: amashilu on January 07, 2023, 09:47:35 AM
Post by: Ehtnisba on January 11, 2023, 05:43:23 PM
Пачемучка я люблю Ваш изказ. Now I must go into English, because Bulgarians understand Russian, but due to us learning Russian.This forum has deteriorated. I will keep checking it, but will not post again until the level of intelligence rises.Спасибо. Русские никогда не обижаются когда их IQ (intelligence quotient) недооценивают. Это наша главная военная тайна.
Если Вам нравится считать что в поход пошли терминаторы, на которых напали другие дикие терминаторы, - воля Ваша.
Истина останется той что и была. В тот роковой поход пошли люди. Живые, со своими чувствами, переживаниями. Молодые и настоящие.
Кто-то тут ненароком бросил вполне здравый слоган. То была бомба. Психологическая бомба. В какой-то момент просто сдетонировало.
А погода добавила разрушительных последствий.
Thank you. Russians never take offense when their IQ (intelligence quotient) is underestimated. This is our main military secret.
If you like to think that the terminators went on a campaign, which were attacked by other wild terminators, you will.
The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.
I just wonder what you mean about the other English users to read Russian - which for sure they don't know. You suggest them use translator? Or as I feel, the unfairness of us always using , studying English, but not a single English speaker thinks that should learn the national language of a country visiting or in this case sniffing into Russian mystery?
Just curiosity question since I feel the way I explained here
Post by: Почемучка on January 11, 2023, 09:56:43 PM
Перевод на английский язык, да еще совершаемый автоматом/машиной/программой - не доносит все содержание и нюансы текста на русском языке. Я создала новый мем. У меня хобби - их создавать. "Сто тысяч оттенков русского языка".Пачемучка я люблю Ваш изказ. Now I must go into English, because Bulgarians understand Russian, but due to us learning Russian.This forum has deteriorated. I will keep checking it, but will not post again until the level of intelligence rises.Спасибо. Русские никогда не обижаются когда их IQ (intelligence quotient) недооценивают. Это наша главная военная тайна.
Если Вам нравится считать что в поход пошли терминаторы, на которых напали другие дикие терминаторы, - воля Ваша.
Истина останется той что и была. В тот роковой поход пошли люди. Живые, со своими чувствами, переживаниями. Молодые и настоящие.
Кто-то тут ненароком бросил вполне здравый слоган. То была бомба. Психологическая бомба. В какой-то момент просто сдетонировало.
А погода добавила разрушительных последствий.
Thank you. Russians never take offense when their IQ (intelligence quotient) is underestimated. This is our main military secret.
If you like to think that the terminators went on a campaign, which were attacked by other wild terminators, you will.
The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.
I just wonder what you mean about the other English users to read Russian - which for sure they don't know. You suggest them use translator? Or as I feel, the unfairness of us always using , studying English, but not a single English speaker thinks that should learn the national language of a country visiting or in this case sniffing into Russian mystery?
Just curiosity question since I feel the way I explained here
Русский текст лучше научиться читать в подлиннике. Или пытаться его перевести с душою и художественным подходом. Малый оттенок - и Вы уже не совсем понимаете о чем речь. Внесен градиент - и Вы вообще понимаете обратное от того, что Вам поясняют.
Русские не умеют говорить схемами. Наши тексты, даже в юридических документах где все должно быть как гербарий сухо и четко, - всегда наполнены нюансами. Кому не хватает образования и словарного запаса - пользуется ненормативной лексикой. Это тоже передача нюансов впечатлений и чувств.
Translation into English, and even made by an automaton / machine / program - does not convey all the content and nuances of the text in Russian. I created a new meme. My hobby is making them. "One Hundred Thousand Shades of the Russian Language".
Russian text is better to learn to read in the original. Or try to translate it with soul and artistic approach. A small shade - and you no longer quite understand what it is about. A gradient has been introduced - and you generally understand the opposite from what they explain to you.
Russians don't know how to speak in diagrams. Our texts, even in legal documents where everything should be dry and clear like a herbarium, are always filled with nuances. Who lacks education and vocabulary - uses profanity. This is also the transfer of nuances of impressions and feelings.
Post by: RMK on January 12, 2023, 07:40:42 AM
Перевод на английский язык, да еще совершаемый автоматом/машиной/программой - не доносит все содержание и нюансы текста на русском языке. Я создала новый мем. У меня хобби - их создавать. "Сто тысяч оттенков русского языка".Почемучка, you write here about "nuance". I fully believe that your writing style, in Russian, is full of nuance. Indeed--the complexity of Russian grammar allows for a lot of clever wordplay that English simply does not make possible. But, the subtlety of your writing confounds Yandex Translate, which does not fully render your intended meaning into English. As a result, I often do not understand the point you are trying to make in your posts. I believe that is a limitation of translation machines...after all, the Bulgarians in this thread (i.e., human translators) seem to understand your points perfectly well.
Русский текст лучше научиться читать в подлиннике. Или пытаться его перевести с душою и художественным подходом. Малый оттенок - и Вы уже не совсем понимаете о чем речь. Внесен градиент - и Вы вообще понимаете обратное от того, что Вам поясняют.
Русские не умеют говорить схемами. Наши тексты, даже в юридических документах где все должно быть как гербарий сухо и четко, - всегда наполнены нюансами. Кому не хватает образования и словарного запаса - пользуется ненормативной лексикой. Это тоже передача нюансов впечатлений и чувств.
Translation into English, and even made by an automaton / machine / program - does not convey all the content and nuances of the text in Russian. I created a new meme. My hobby is making them. "One Hundred Thousand Shades of the Russian Language".
Russian text is better to learn to read in the original. Or try to translate it with soul and artistic approach. A small shade - and you no longer quite understand what it is about. A gradient has been introduced - and you generally understand the opposite from what they explain to you.
Russians don't know how to speak in diagrams. Our texts, even in legal documents where everything should be dry and clear like a herbarium, are always filled with nuances. Who lacks education and vocabulary - uses profanity. This is also the transfer of nuances of impressions and feelings.
Почемучка, вы пишете здесь о "нюансе". Я полностью верю, что ваш стиль письма на русском языке полон нюансов. Действительно, сложность русской грамматики допускает множество хитроумных игр словами, которые в английском языке просто невозможны. Но тонкость вашего письма ставит в тупик Яндекс Переводчик, который не полностью передает ваш предполагаемый смысл на английский. В результате я часто не понимаю, какую мысль вы пытаетесь донести в своих постах. Я считаю, что это ограничение переводческих машин ... в конце концов, болгары в этой теме (т.е. переводчики-люди), похоже, прекрасно понимают ваши замечания.
Post by: GlennM on January 12, 2023, 08:31:00 AM
Post by: Почемучка on January 12, 2023, 08:31:28 AM
Почемучка, you write here about "nuance". I fully believe that your writing style, in Russian, is full of nuance. Indeed--the complexity of Russian grammar allows for a lot of clever wordplay that English simply does not make possible. But, the subtlety of your writing confounds Yandex Translate, which does not fully render your intended meaning into English. As a result, I often do not understand the point you are trying to make in your posts. I believe that is a limitation of translation machines...after all, the Bulgarians in this thread (i.e., human translators) seem to understand your points perfectly well.
Почемучка, вы пишете здесь о "нюансе". Я полностью верю, что ваш стиль письма на русском языке полон нюансов. Действительно, сложность русской грамматики допускает множество хитроумных игр словами, которые в английском языке просто невозможны. Но тонкость вашего письма ставит в тупик Яндекс Переводчик, который не полностью передает ваш предполагаемый смысл на английский. В результате я часто не понимаю, какую мысль вы пытаетесь донести в своих постах. Я считаю, что это ограничение переводческих машин ... в конце концов, болгары в этой теме (т.е. переводчики-люди), похоже, прекрасно понимают ваши замечания.
Я думаю, нужно оставить разговоры про сложности машинного перевода. Если люди хотят понять друг друга - они все равно друг друга поймут. Я буду стараться писать понятнее. Вы будете стараться читать старательнее. Всего и делов. Ну это если кому-то интересно именно что я думаю.
I think we need to stop talking about the complexity of machine translation. If people want to understand each other, they will understand each other anyway. I will try to write more clearly. You will try to read more diligently. Total and business. Well, if anyone is interested in exactly what I think.
Post by: Почемучка on January 12, 2023, 08:33:21 AM
How,precedes why.Если рассуждать о причине и следствии, то причину - определяют вопросы почему и зачем. Потому что сначала мотив, а потом реализация выстроенного под него плана.
Следствие определяется вопросом как, поскольку следствие - это выбор возможностей и условий.
Вы предлагаете все перевернуть с ног на голову и считать это свежей идеей. Не годится. Никогда не годилось.
If we talk about cause and effect, then the cause is determined by the questions why and why. Because first the motive, and then the implementation of the plan built for it.
The consequence is determined by the question of how, since the consequence is the choice of possibilities and conditions.
You propose to turn everything upside down and consider it a fresh idea. Not good. Never fit.
Post by: GlennM on January 12, 2023, 08:44:27 AM
Post by: Почемучка on January 12, 2023, 09:11:05 AM
Truth is simple. I support your effort to make it so. Comgratulations. I will do the same.Истина бывает проста если речь идет о математике и биологии, физике или химии.
Человека нельзя разложить на составляющие. Все что связано с ним - никогда не бывает простой истиной. Никогда.
The truth is simple when it comes to mathematics and biology, physics or chemistry.
A person cannot be divided into components. Everything connected with it is never a simple truth. Never.
Post by: GlennM on January 12, 2023, 01:07:04 PM
Post by: Ehtnisba on January 12, 2023, 06:17:28 PM
Перевод на английский язык, да еще совершаемый автоматом/машиной/программой - не доносит все содержание и нюансы текста на русском языке. Я создала новый мем. У меня хобби - их создавать. "Сто тысяч оттенков русского языка".Пачемучка я люблю Ваш изказ. Now I must go into English, because Bulgarians understand Russian, but due to us learning Russian.This forum has deteriorated. I will keep checking it, but will not post again until the level of intelligence rises.Спасибо. Русские никогда не обижаются когда их IQ (intelligence quotient) недооценивают. Это наша главная военная тайна.
Если Вам нравится считать что в поход пошли терминаторы, на которых напали другие дикие терминаторы, - воля Ваша.
Истина останется той что и была. В тот роковой поход пошли люди. Живые, со своими чувствами, переживаниями. Молодые и настоящие.
Кто-то тут ненароком бросил вполне здравый слоган. То была бомба. Психологическая бомба. В какой-то момент просто сдетонировало.
А погода добавила разрушительных последствий.
Thank you. Russians never take offense when their IQ (intelligence quotient) is underestimated. This is our main military secret.
If you like to think that the terminators went on a campaign, which were attacked by other wild terminators, you will.
The truth will remain the same. People went on that fatal campaign. Alive, with their feelings, experiences. Young and real.
Someone here inadvertently threw a completely sensible slogan. That was the bomb. Psychological bomb. At some point, it just exploded.
And the weather added devastating effects.
I just wonder what you mean about the other English users to read Russian - which for sure they don't know. You suggest them use translator? Or as I feel, the unfairness of us always using , studying English, but not a single English speaker thinks that should learn the national language of a country visiting or in this case sniffing into Russian mystery?
Just curiosity question since I feel the way I explained here
Русский текст лучше научиться читать в подлиннике. Или пытаться его перевести с душою и художественным подходом. Малый оттенок - и Вы уже не совсем понимаете о чем речь. Внесен градиент - и Вы вообще понимаете обратное от того, что Вам поясняют.
Русские не умеют говорить схемами. Наши тексты, даже в юридических документах где все должно быть как гербарий сухо и четко, - всегда наполнены нюансами. Кому не хватает образования и словарного запаса - пользуется ненормативной лексикой. Это тоже передача нюансов впечатлений и чувств.
Translation into English, and even made by an automaton / machine / program - does not convey all the content and nuances of the text in Russian. I created a new meme. My hobby is making them. "One Hundred Thousand Shades of the Russian Language".
Russian text is better to learn to read in the original. Or try to translate it with soul and artistic approach. A small shade - and you no longer quite understand what it is about. A gradient has been introduced - and you generally understand the opposite from what they explain to you.
Russians don't know how to speak in diagrams. Our texts, even in legal documents where everything should be dry and clear like a herbarium, are always filled with nuances. Who lacks education and vocabulary - uses profanity. This is also the transfer of nuances of impressions and feelings.
I understand this, English is limiting. Makes me suffer express myself. I want to apologise for my rude answer to you about mentioning culture gap between West and East (ex East block). The Russian was not with words I know and in English it came as some sarcasm race 3 rounds😁😁😁
Please understand I do my best to read original and I am not english speaker but bulgarian who has been born after times we had it in school so I rely on the mutual alphabet and many close words.
Post by: GlennM on January 12, 2023, 06:40:42 PM
Post by: Почемучка on January 12, 2023, 09:38:12 PM
Try using that arguement in a court of law and see how far you get!Вы даете понять что представляете собою представителя судебного заседания? Вот совершенно не производите такого впечатления. Вы кидаете реплики - без цитирования. Они у Вас весят непонятно кому адресованные. Разве юристы пользуются такой методикой? Их аргумент и их тезис всегда остро заточен на адресата и имеет часть обращения к нему.
Вы на мое понимание - по русски очковтиратель. Изображаете философа. У нас таких по русским форумам - предостаточно. Натренировались. Один Иван Иванов чего стоит. Сплошная загадочность и намеки и ноль в аргументах. Прижми Вас к стенке с требованием выдать свое мнение - и Вы выскользнете не сказав ничего внятного.
You make it clear that you are a representative of the court session? Don't give that impression at all. You throw remarks - without quoting. They weigh you incomprehensibly to whom addressed. Do lawyers use this technique? Their argument and their thesis is always sharply focused on the addressee and has a part of the appeal to him.
To my understanding, you are a swindler in Russian. Play the philosopher. We have such on Russian forums-abound. Trained. One Ivan Ivanov is worth something. Solid mystery and hints and zero in the arguments. Press you against the wall demanding to give out your opinion - and you will slip out without saying anything intelligible.
Post by: Почемучка on January 12, 2023, 09:41:28 PM
Про сарказм - это очень верное наблюдение. Вот я например - никогда не стану говорить что я много понимаю в истории Болгарии, в особенностях болгарского духа и прочее. У нас из болгар - Филя Киркоров и этим все сказано. И если он начнет писать книги какая плохая его Болгария - я ему не поверю. Не бывает плохой Родины - бывают ей плохие сыны/дочери.
I understand this, English is limiting. Makes me suffer express myself. I want to apologise for my rude answer to you about mentioning culture gap between West and East (ex East block). The Russian was not with words I know and in English it came as some sarcasm race 3 rounds😁😁😁
Please understand I do my best to read original and I am not english speaker but bulgarian who has been born after times we had it in school so I rely on the mutual alphabet and many close words.
И самый свирепый сарказм заключается в том, что Вы готовы поверить в самый откровенный бред про СССР. Вам это нравится. Такого человека бесполезно тыкать носом - что это шизофренический от начала и до конца бред. Разве можно бороться с Вашими предпочтениями?
About sarcasm - this is a very true observation. For example, I will never say that I understand a lot in the history of Bulgaria, in the peculiarities of the Bulgarian spirit, and so on. We have from the Bulgarians - Filya Kirkorov and that says it all. And if he starts writing books about how bad his Bulgaria is, I won’t believe him. There is no bad Motherland - there are bad sons/daughters.
And the most ferocious sarcasm is that you are ready to believe in the most outright nonsense about the USSR. Do you like this. It is useless to poke such a person with his nose - that this is schizophrenic nonsense from beginning to end. Is it possible to fight with your preferences?
Post by: GlennM on January 12, 2023, 09:53:42 PM
To my understanding, you are a swindler in Russian. Play the philosopher. We have such on Russian forums-abound. Trained. One Ivan Ivanov is worth something. Solid mystery and hints and zero in the arguments. Press you against the wall demanding to give out your opinion - and you will slip out without saying anything intelligible.
We both have much to learn, but you have more than I.
Shall we return to the topic? Understand how events happen and you will appreciate how decisions were made. Finally you will understand why things happened as they did. The truth is simple. Occams razor. Nature prevails. There is no need for comspiracy.
Post by: Почемучка on January 12, 2023, 10:00:01 PM
Вы не укажете тот мой пост, где я внедряю идею о заговоре? Вы меня ни с кем не перепутали?
Shall we return to the topic? Understand how events happen and you will appreciate how decisions were made. Finally you will understand why things happened as they did. The truth is simple. Occams razor. Nature prevails. There is no need for comspiracy.
Can you point to my post where I introduce the idea of a conspiracy? You didn't confuse me with anyone?
Post by: Ehtnisba on January 13, 2023, 01:55:42 AM
Пачемучка , you have misunderstood me. I have NOT written about SSSR, especially nothing bad. Something is very wrong in translations. See my messages , all I wanted to imply that USA and people from East Europe + Russia are different cultures. And I think you agree with this. In our schools we know Russia is our freedom giver twice or even more. How can I say bad words or tell history of SSSR except main dates? I think you have taken me as foe while I tried to explain I just find your culture and language similar. Not same, just similar due to past of colaboration and the big Russian influence and knowledge Bulgaria received from you the Russians.Про сарказм - это очень верное наблюдение. Вот я например - никогда не стану говорить что я много понимаю в истории Болгарии, в особенностях болгарского духа и прочее. У нас из болгар - Филя Киркоров и этим все сказано. И если он начнет писать книги какая плохая его Болгария - я ему не поверю. Не бывает плохой Родины - бывают ей плохие сыны/дочери.
I understand this, English is limiting. Makes me suffer express myself. I want to apologise for my rude answer to you about mentioning culture gap between West and East (ex East block). The Russian was not with words I know and in English it came as some sarcasm race 3 rounds😁😁😁
Please understand I do my best to read original and I am not english speaker but bulgarian who has been born after times we had it in school so I rely on the mutual alphabet and many close words.
И самый свирепый сарказм заключается в том, что Вы готовы поверить в самый откровенный бред про СССР. Вам это нравится. Такого человека бесполезно тыкать носом - что это шизофренический от начала и до конца бред. Разве можно бороться с Вашими предпочтениями?
About sarcasm - this is a very true observation. For example, I will never say that I understand a lot in the history of Bulgaria, in the peculiarities of the Bulgarian spirit, and so on. We have from the Bulgarians - Filya Kirkorov and that says it all. And if he starts writing books about how bad his Bulgaria is, I won’t believe him. There is no bad Motherland - there are bad sons/daughters.
And the most ferocious sarcasm is that you are ready to believe in the most outright nonsense about the USSR. Do you like this. It is useless to poke such a person with his nose - that this is schizophrenic nonsense from beginning to end. Is it possible to fight with your preferences?
Post by: Почемучка on January 13, 2023, 02:02:52 AM
Вы плюсуете Аннушке Русских и смотрите с удовлетворением на её версию. Этого достаточно, чтоб понять - с какой стороны баррикад находитесь Вы...
Пачемучка , you have misunderstood me. I have NOT written about SSSR, especially nothing bad. Something is very wrong in translations. See my messages , all I wanted to imply that USA and people from East Europe and Russia are different cultures. And I think you agree with this. In our schools we know Russian is our freedom giver twice or even more. How can I say bad words or tell history of SSSR except main dates? I think you have taken me as foe while I tried to explain I just find your culture and language similar. Not same, just similar due to past of colaboration and the big Russian influence and knowledge Bulgaria received from you the Russians.
You upvote Annushka Russkikh and look with satisfaction at her version. This is enough to understand which side of the barricades you are on...
Post by: Ehtnisba on January 13, 2023, 03:31:54 AM
Why we need barricades. I don't know her, nor you. I am not expert. I find both of the versions interesting and managed to finally understand your due to you just using more memes. Can't we have mutual respect and what is between you and her to not be transported in our conversation. excusemeВы плюсуете Аннушке Русских и смотрите с удовлетворением на её версию. Этого достаточно, чтоб понять - с какой стороны баррикад находитесь Вы...
Пачемучка , you have misunderstood me. I have NOT written about SSSR, especially nothing bad. Something is very wrong in translations. See my messages , all I wanted to imply that USA and people from East Europe and Russia are different cultures. And I think you agree with this. In our schools we know Russian is our freedom giver twice or even more. How can I say bad words or tell history of SSSR except main dates? I think you have taken me as foe while I tried to explain I just find your culture and language similar. Not same, just similar due to past of colaboration and the big Russian influence and knowledge Bulgaria received from you the Russians.
You upvote Annushka Russkikh and look with satisfaction at her version. This is enough to understand which side of the barricades you are on...
Post by: Почемучка on January 13, 2023, 04:06:21 AM
Хорошо, тогда будем считать Вас нейтральной Швейцарией. Временно и недолго. Но имейте ввиду - я как пушистая кошка привлеку весь свой шарм и дар убеждения и перевербую на свою сторону.Why we need barricades. I don't know her, nor you. I am not expert. I find both of the versions interesting and managed to finally understand your due to you just using more memes. Can't we have mutual respect and what is between you and her to not be transported in our conversation. excusemeВы плюсуете Аннушке Русских и смотрите с удовлетворением на её версию. Этого достаточно, чтоб понять - с какой стороны баррикад находитесь Вы...
Пачемучка , you have misunderstood me. I have NOT written about SSSR, especially nothing bad. Something is very wrong in translations. See my messages , all I wanted to imply that USA and people from East Europe and Russia are different cultures. And I think you agree with this. In our schools we know Russian is our freedom giver twice or even more. How can I say bad words or tell history of SSSR except main dates? I think you have taken me as foe while I tried to explain I just find your culture and language similar. Not same, just similar due to past of colaboration and the big Russian influence and knowledge Bulgaria received from you the Russians.
You upvote Annushka Russkikh and look with satisfaction at her version. This is enough to understand which side of the barricades you are on...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SpM2yaC8UQ
Well, then we will consider you neutral Switzerland. Temporarily and not for long. But keep in mind - like a fluffy cat, I will attract all my charm and gift of persuasion and turn over to my side.
Post by: Ehtnisba on January 13, 2023, 05:37:45 AM
Хорошо, тогда будем считать Вас нейтральной Швейцарией. Временно и недолго. Но имейте ввиду - я как пушистая кошка привлеку весь свой шарм и дар убеждения и перевербую на свою сторону.Why we need barricades. I don't know her, nor you. I am not expert. I find both of the versions interesting and managed to finally understand your due to you just using more memes. Can't we have mutual respect and what is between you and her to not be transported in our conversation. excusemeВы плюсуете Аннушке Русских и смотрите с удовлетворением на её версию. Этого достаточно, чтоб понять - с какой стороны баррикад находитесь Вы...
Пачемучка , you have misunderstood me. I have NOT written about SSSR, especially nothing bad. Something is very wrong in translations. See my messages , all I wanted to imply that USA and people from East Europe and Russia are different cultures. And I think you agree with this. In our schools we know Russian is our freedom giver twice or even more. How can I say bad words or tell history of SSSR except main dates? I think you have taken me as foe while I tried to explain I just find your culture and language similar. Not same, just similar due to past of colaboration and the big Russian influence and knowledge Bulgaria received from you the Russians.
You upvote Annushka Russkikh and look with satisfaction at her version. This is enough to understand which side of the barricades you are on...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SpM2yaC8UQ
Well, then we will consider you neutral Switzerland. Temporarily and not for long. But keep in mind - like a fluffy cat, I will attract all my charm and gift of persuasion and turn over to my side.
You have good sense of humor/mems :😁😁😁 . And cats are lovely.
On a serious side I will be glad to follow the forum .
Post by: Почемучка on January 13, 2023, 06:07:04 AM
Я записала. Теперь Вам не отвертеться. Здесь читали? Это я ведь мосты навожу и переправы.
You have good sense of humor/mems :😁😁😁 . And cats are lovely.
On a serious side I will be glad to follow the forum .
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1309.msg20615#msg20615
I recorded. Now you can't get away. Have you read here? It's me who builds bridges and crossings.
Post by: Ehtnisba on January 13, 2023, 07:59:39 AM
Я записала. Теперь Вам не отвертеться. Здесь читали? Это я ведь мосты навожу и переправы.
You have good sense of humor/mems :😁😁😁 . And cats are lovely.
On a serious side I will be glad to follow the forum .
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1309.msg20615#msg20615
I recorded. Now you can't get away. Have you read here? It's me who builds bridges and crossings.
Beautiful story. It can be felt by heart.
Post by: Почемучка on January 13, 2023, 08:15:01 AM
Историю гибели группы Дятлова нужно тоже пропускать через сердце. По другому не получится её понять.
Beautiful story. It can be felt by heart.
The story of the death of the Dyatlov group must also be passed through the heart. Otherwise, you won't be able to understand it.
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 18, 2023, 03:39:53 PM
On this map, the helipad is far from the lake. And on the other two maps right on the lake. Why is that ?(https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Map-by-Potyazhenko.jpg)Controversial map by pilot commander Victor Potyazhenko 2018
На этой карте вертолётная площадка далеко от озера. А на двух других картах прямо на озере. Почему так ?
Post by: Олег Таймень on January 18, 2023, 04:02:33 PM
Right next to the lake, on its eastern side, there is the only flat area where any helicopter can land
(https://i.ibb.co/x5nVgVb/Screenshot-55.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WKrSzSX)
(https://i.ibb.co/TMPh37k/Screenshot-56.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XxFJRKb)
(https://i.ibb.co/MD70FKK/Screenshot-57.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DDQ20mm)
(https://i.ibb.co/617LNmd/Screenshot-58.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z7TDNrk)
А прям рядом находится холм, который очень похож на искусственный. Как будто ровняли площадку под вертолёт, а грунт ссыпали в кучу
And right next to it is a hill, which is very similar to artificial. As if they leveled the platform for the helicopter, and the soil was poured into a pile
(https://i.ibb.co/TvR2pbq/Screenshot-59.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Pm4j39z)
(https://i.ibb.co/5hBqdJS/Screenshot-60.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WvgSQRM)