Victims and Case Files > Case Files
Documents of the first volume of the criminal case.
WAB:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on March 26, 2019, 03:09:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: WAB on March 26, 2019, 11:01:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on March 25, 2019, 04:06:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: NkZ on March 24, 2019, 03:06:08 AM ---Evening Ortoten.
Usually evening newspapers bear the next day's date (was this the case in CCCP?). So 1st feb means it's edited on jan 31, maybe after filling up the group diary?
--- End quote ---
This Newspaper that is often mentioned in the Forum is of a questionable nature. We dont know for certain, but by all accounts it was written on the 1st February 1959. The original copy is MISSING like so much evidence in the Dyatlov Mystery.
--- End quote ---
The original copy cannot give us any additional information for this purpose what to learn that with them happens. In what doubtfulness of this newspaper consists, I do not understand? It is a usual comic hand-written leaf. Its presence can give in addition confidence that all that has occurred before, was a usual and normal course of events. Then was considerable there emergency.
--- End quote ---
The original Document is important in Court Cases in My Country. Judges prefer to see ORIGINALS. To make sure that there have not be any mistakes or deliberate alterations, etc.
--- End quote ---
In it you are absolutely right. However, tell to me please: What could give this "document" in case of litigation?
WAB:
--- Quote from: Nordlander on March 26, 2019, 08:59:34 PM ---That is interesting to know that evening papers were new in the USSR and that they were dated to the same day and not the next morning as they are in the West. One reason I had it in my head that the event had happened on the night of Jan 31/Feb. 1 (which I now realize is wrong) is because that date is a winter-spring festival in a lot of cold weather cultures. It is celebrated among some Native American tribes or First Nations in Canada. The Celts celebrated Imbolc on Feb. 1-2, so I wondered if maybe this holiday had been preserved among other traditional Northern cultures like the Mansi, Khanty, and Komi.
--- End quote ---
You have paid attention to interesting aspect. On February, 2nd - is Groundhog Day.
(And Simeon Zolotaryov's birthday) grin1
It is interesting (Groundhog Day) to the western countries, but in the USSR then about it did not know. More precisely about it knew very limited number of people which were engaged in culture of the western countries, as scientists. Dyatlov group precisely knew nothing about it and at all did not suspect. Yury Yudin necessarily would inform me (and all too) on it, when we much spoke about all under pass in 2008 and 2009 during summer expeditions. Among the people of Finno-Ugric ethnic group of such holiday is not present. We contacted approximately this time to local Mansi much, but such they did not tell anything. For accuracy, it will be better, if experts look in scientific works on ethnography of these people.
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: WAB on March 26, 2019, 11:19:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on March 26, 2019, 03:09:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: WAB on March 26, 2019, 11:01:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on March 25, 2019, 04:06:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: NkZ on March 24, 2019, 03:06:08 AM ---Evening Ortoten.
Usually evening newspapers bear the next day's date (was this the case in CCCP?). So 1st feb means it's edited on jan 31, maybe after filling up the group diary?
--- End quote ---
This Newspaper that is often mentioned in the Forum is of a questionable nature. We dont know for certain, but by all accounts it was written on the 1st February 1959. The original copy is MISSING like so much evidence in the Dyatlov Mystery.
--- End quote ---
The original copy cannot give us any additional information for this purpose what to learn that with them happens. In what doubtfulness of this newspaper consists, I do not understand? It is a usual comic hand-written leaf. Its presence can give in addition confidence that all that has occurred before, was a usual and normal course of events. Then was considerable there emergency.
--- End quote ---
The original Document is important in Court Cases in My Country. Judges prefer to see ORIGINALS. To make sure that there have not be any mistakes or deliberate alterations, etc.
--- End quote ---
In it you are absolutely right. However, tell to me please: What could give this "document" in case of litigation?
--- End quote ---
A Criminal Court Case in Britain. The best evidence will always be the original items. For instance in the question of the Dyatlov Incident : The actual physical Tent will be better evidence than the photographs of the Tent or a written description of the Tent. The actual physical Newspaper will be better evidence than a written description of the Newspaper. ETC ETC.
Nordlander:
Thanks, WAB, for the information about the Mansi being asked about holidays.
I assumed that the Dyatlov group wasn't aware of any particular holiday. I know the Soviet attitude about folk religion all too well: "superstition." (Btw, German immigrants brought groundhog day to the US and Canada). The day is also the Christian feast day of Candlemas, but of course that doesn't exist in the Russian Orthodox church. I found out that the Khanty holidays, the reindeer feast and the bear feast are in March: spring comes later there, so it makes sense. So my suspicions about that day turned out to be Eurocentric.
I've dropped the "time" issue and think that the event is more about "place." And I don't think the Mansi were involved since they had a better rapport with the Soviets, even being used as bounty hunters for gulag escapees in some cases. I think it's pretty clear from some of the Mansis' testimony, though, that they already knew what had happened. If I were to suspect any locals, it would be the Khanty or Ostyuks, especially the five "wild" members of the tribe that one of the Mansis identified as living near the pass: they are the ones who revolted against the Soviets in the early 30s, leading to so much blood shed on both sides that I don't think the death toll will ever fully be known.
ElizabethHarris:
Is there anything in the case files that says the wolverine chemical spray smell was present and recognized by rescuers when the tent was found?
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