Theories Discussion > The stove
Carbon monoxide posoning
Alo:
Hi, I am Estonian and our ancesters lived in the farmhouses without chimneys. They kiln-dried grain, smoke helped to cure grain from pests. Their houses were often full of smoke, but they had learned to live with it. And that`s why Estonian folkore is full of fairys, elves, ghosts etc. Some scientists think that living in that kind of houses caused mild carbon monoxide poisoning sometimes, which in turn caused hallucinations.
I noticed that Dyatlov had self-constructed stove. That alone doesn`t sound good, even today there are carbon monoxide poisoning accidents due to amateur stove building or repairing. Maybe the stove or it`s chimney leaked carbon monoxide and other gases. For the second, I read from diary that they sewed the hole in the tent. Maybe that hole worked as a last ventilation hole and when it was closed, the poisoning become possible.
So maybe they got mild carbon monoxide poisoning, some of them saw "ghost", then panic broke out and they run outside. As far as I know the carbon monoxide wont leave your blood so easily even in fresh air, so the "ghost" didn`t disappear and people run futher, then some of them falled and got injuries.
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Alo on April 12, 2021, 10:42:14 AM ---Hi, I am Estonian and our ancesters lived in the farmhouses without chimneys. They kiln-dried grain, smoke helped to cure grain from pests. Their houses were often full of smoke, but they had learned to live with it. And that`s why Estonian folkore is full of fairys, elves, ghosts etc. Some scientists think that living in that kind of houses caused mild carbon monoxide poisoning sometimes, which in turn caused hallucinations.
I noticed that Dyatlov had self-constructed stove. That alone doesn`t sound good, even today there are carbon monoxide poisoning accidents due to amateur stove building or repairing. Maybe the stove or it`s chimney leaked carbon monoxide and other gases. For the second, I read from diary that they sewed the hole in the tent. Maybe that hole worked as a last ventilation hole and when it was closed, the poisoning become possible.
So maybe they got mild carbon monoxide poisoning, some of them saw "ghost", then panic broke out and they run outside. As far as I know the carbon monoxide wont leave your blood so easily even in fresh air, so the "ghost" didn`t disappear and people run futher, then some of them falled and got injuries.
--- End quote ---
Hell and welcome. Apparently the Stove wasnt used on the night of the Incident. Also no trace of any kind of poisoning in any of the bodies.
Dona:
I think, in general, its believed that they didnt use the stove that night..
But, you have a point. That 90 degree angle on the vent pipe is worrisome.
WAB:
--- Quote from: Alo on April 12, 2021, 10:42:14 AM ---Hi, I am Estonian and our ancesters lived in the farmhouses without chimneys. They kiln-dried grain, smoke helped to cure grain from pests. Their houses were often full of smoke, but they had learned to live with it. And that`s why Estonian folkore is full of fairys, elves, ghosts etc. Some scientists think that living in that kind of houses caused mild carbon monoxide poisoning sometimes, which in turn caused hallucinations.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I was in Estonia, and I got to know a little bit about the old way of life of that people. This is characteristic of neighboring countries as well. This method of heating, of course, has its disadvantages, but the constant mild carbon monoxide poisoning was detrimental to the conditions and life expectancy of the people. I understand what you are talking about, but let's deal with the events that interest us.
--- Quote from: Alo on April 12, 2021, 10:42:14 AM ---I noticed that Dyatlov had self-constructed stove. That alone doesn`t sound good, even today there are carbon monoxide poisoning accidents due to amateur stove building or repairing. Maybe the stove or it`s chimney leaked carbon monoxide and other gases. For the second, I read from diary that they sewed the hole in the tent. Maybe that hole worked as a last ventilation hole and when it was closed, the poisoning become possible.
--- End quote ---
No, starting with this paragraph, I must begin to correct your misconceptions.
1.The furnace they had was homemade. It was a 40 x 40 x 60 cm (15.5 x 15.4 x 23 in) iron box with grate for burning wood and door on the front side. The pipe came out the back side and ran horizontally. The pipe exited the tent through special sleeve made of asbestos, it is mineral fabric made of special natural material. This was done so that the fabric of the tent could not catch fire. Such design of the stove and its installation in the tent has many disadvantages, according to modern concepts, but it was much used at that time for such trips.
2.In the practice of similar trips there was no case that someone was poisoned by carbon monoxide for many reasons. For example, because such tents with the atmosphere have very good exchange of air, as well as because the large temperature difference gives good draft, which is controlled by the duty officer additionally.
3. It is not the task of the forum evaluate this design and application, because we should only deal with what happened to Dyatlov's group, not analyze the equipment.
4.The reason for sewing up the hole that is written about in the diary is very simple. Before this trip, the students were taking exams for their course, and they did not have time prepare the tent well. They got it from their club almost the night before they left, so they had fix it up inside the trip. This hole has no effect on ventilation, if only because they were constantly opening and closing the tent entrance when they were inside and this added to the ventilation as well. It is impossible for large amount of carbon monoxide accumulate in such tent. This is not room with blank walls that have no ventilation to the outside air. They were more afraid that the tent might catch fire.
--- Quote from: Alo on April 12, 2021, 10:42:14 AM ---So maybe they got mild carbon monoxide poisoning, some of them saw "ghost", then panic broke out and they run outside.
--- End quote ---
I have encountered carbon monoxide buildup on several occasions while traveling. It was only a small concentration (it was well perceived when breathing) but it was only in hunters' huts, where the stationary stove had a poor draft and noticeably smoky. In shawl stoves this is practically uncommon.
Therefore, such reason to run away almost naked for 1.5 km (0.95 mi) is unreal. In such a case (if there was carbon monoxide after all) they would have stopped immediately near the tent, in plenty of good air.
--- Quote from: Alo on April 12, 2021, 10:42:14 AM ---As far as I know the carbon monoxide wont leave your blood so easily even in fresh air, so the "ghost" didn`t disappear and people run futher, then some of them falled and got injuries.
--- End quote ---
No, this is not the case. Indeed, carbon monoxide dissolves in the blood and blocks part of the surface of person's lungs. But it causes severe mental depression and reluctance move. The condition in the head resembles fog, but the person is very restricted in movement while doing so.
Dona:
.
3. It is not the task of the forum evaluate this design and application, because we should only deal with what happened to Dyatlov's group, not analyze the equipment.
Says who? You?
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