Theories Discussion > Murdered
My short take on murder.
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Georgi on June 30, 2020, 11:57:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on June 22, 2020, 02:22:14 PM ---
There could be many reasons why the watches stopped when they did. But you raise a good point, and worth further Investigation.
--- End quote ---
In the article about the Chivruay Pass incident they came to the conclusion that once the body freezes the watches most often stop working within 15-30 minutes. That being said they also had one watch which survived several months in the cold on one of the bodies and was still working when they found the person. If they were self winding watches it could also indicate TOD if we knew how long the battery reserve was, it could have been a few hours to a couple of days but since they mostly stopped within a couple of hours from each other I can say its more likely they ceased working once the bodies froze.
--- End quote ---
Its a good one this. And this particular issue could do with further investigation. Any experts out there in watch manufacture ? ! etc.
sparrow:
In my experience, wind up watches tend to run about 24 hours before they need to be rewound. I also used to see people unconsciously wind their watches throughout the day.
sparrow:
Hello Sarapuk.
I was curious about whether the Mansi served in the military. If we were to assume that the hikers were killed by others, why not the Mansi? I believe most people would not know instinctively how to kill and the military would be one way to learn. I am just trying to glean as much information as I can from others, especially when I don't know the answer.
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: sparrow on July 07, 2020, 11:29:53 PM ---Hello Sarapuk.
I was curious about whether the Mansi served in the military. If we were to assume that the hikers were killed by others, why not the Mansi? I believe most people would not know instinctively how to kill and the military would be one way to learn. I am just trying to glean as much information as I can from others, especially when I don't know the answer.
--- End quote ---
Well none of us know the answer, YET. I have been looking at the Case Files again and it does appear that the Mansi were thoroughly Investigated by the Authorities. You know what that means. The KGB. So I think that the Mansi were not responsible for the demise of the Dyatlov Group.
Jean Daniel Reuss:
--- Quote from: Morski on June 18, 2020, 03:19:32 PM --- Reply #76
--- End quote ---
a quarrel among them
A fight to the death between the 9 hikers would only be possible under the action of a (non-existent) very powerful psychotropic drug.
This is what I call my hypothesis N°1: See: "To complement Eduard Tumanov's ideas...
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.msg8382#msg8382
Altercation on the pass / Altercation on the pass => February 03, 2020, 02:04:13 PM ---> Reply #15
I am now eliminating that hypothesis ---> Reply #18
a tragedy triggered by a natural event or phenomenon
All that we can read about these 9 well-trained Siberian Russians who were found dead with various fractures shows that it is certain that these are not natural events.
This misleading propaganda about young athletes breaking their skulls by stumbling is ridiculous.
And on the Den, which on February 1 contained less snow than on May 4, it is impossible to get hurt sliding into it. Just have a look at the 3D model of the ravine by Vasilii Zyadik
https://dyatlovpass.com/vasilii-zyadik
I would rather think of a murderer who, after climbing a tree, had fun doing trampoline demonstrations by falling with his feet together on Dubinina and Zolotaryov lying on their back.
weight = 80 kg + freefall height = 3 meter ===> 2400 joules
But murder - if it was at least closer to civilization... But in the middle of nowhere?
On the contrary! It was an excellent place and time:
At the same time very easy to access by following the track left by the 9 hikers;
Absolute certainty to find the tent at the end of the track;
Less than a day on skis to go from the North-2 departure base to the tent;
But far enough away so that no hiker can escape and find help.
No witnesses to the extermination of the 9 hikers.
You need a very strong motive
Aleks Kandr explains the motives on his website, unfortunately in Russian.
http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova
But to understand the motives it is necessary to have some historic notions about Khrushchev's Thaw, the destalinization, the (difficult) dismantling of the Gulag, the sometimes sadistic mentality of some camp guards, propaganda and psychological modern war...etc
The central theme of Aleks Kandr, which opens up promising avenues of research, is that the hikers were attacked.
The attackers were not zeks escaped from one camp (Ivdellag).
The attackers were not ex-zeks who had been released since 1953, (This was my hypothesis N°2).
The attackers were camp guards who were still active or former camp guards who had been dismissed or were unemployed, and who with the Thaw were in the process of losing all their powers. This is now my hypothesis N°3 .
There are still many questions to be discussed and clarified :
Was there only one remaining commanditaire (commander, client ?) in Ivdel and 3 mercenary murderers ? How was Dubinina compromised to have her tongue ripped out ? etc...
See also Sabine (Sabine Lechtenfeld): https://dyatlovpass.com/dubininas-premonition?lid=1&flp=1
Think about the resources, or the human effort to follow/stalk them
Yes ! Precisely I think and I think realistically :
8 hours of skiing to go from North-2, which was the departure base, to the tent.
And after successfully defeating the 9 hikers :
7 hours of skiing to come back from the tent to North-2, (so the 3 killers could be at home in the Ivdel area by February 3rd, 1959).
to endure basically the same struggles
Some camp guards were trained to pursue (and exterminate) escapees in the snow.
mishka had the best idea for exiting the tent in a hurry without taking the 3 axes (an answer to alecsandros).
mishka : Who cut open the tent? August 10, 2020, 12:04:43 AM ---> Reply #16
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=690.msg10439#msg10439
August 11, 2020, 09:10:11 AM ---> Reply #18
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=690.msg10460#msg10460
When, on February 3, 1959, the 3 mercenary murderers came back to see the commander, they said in substance:
1) We are proud to have succeeded in our ruse to quickly get the 9 hikers out of the tent without them taking the 3 axes that were inside.
"...We have lost control of an experimental missile... and the mad explosive projectile will fall exactly where your tent is ...."
2) The extermination, without firearms, of the 9 hikers was a bit laborious because it took about 10 hours.
3) And here is in this small package what was asked namely: the four eyeballs and the tongue.
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
Of course this is a brief overview of my hypothesis N°3 which uses and mixes the ideas of Per Inge Oestmoen, Aleks Kandr, Sabine, Noelle, NightLurker, mishka, hoosiergose, Georgi, RidgeWatcher...and many others too numerous to name them. I now believe that I am finally on the right track able to explain the main lines of the DPI. I will continue on the topic:
Altercation on the pass / Altercation on the pass
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.30
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