Theories Discussion > Murdered
Murdered for entering into a sacred place
Ehtnisba:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on April 15, 2019, 01:47:51 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ehtnisba on April 13, 2019, 04:35:04 PM ---Is this true? What do you think?
https://www.iksinfo.ru/stati/zagadochnie-mesta/item/685-gora-mertvetsov.html
A local resident, who participated in the search for missing tourists in Leningrad as a guide, said that in February 1961 another group of 9 people died on the mountain of the dead. These were tourists, researchers from Leningrad, who decided to find out the causes of the death of Dyatlovtsy and prove that an accident had become the whole vein.
However, they soon discovered their bodies. The scenario was similar - ripped from the inside of the tent. Wild horror on the dead faces, a similar nature of internal damage. Only this time the bodies did not lie at remote distances, but in the right circle, in the center of which was one of the tents. As in the history of Dyatlovtsy valuables were not touched, no trace of any struggle was found.
From the words of the same guide it follows that the corpses of tourists were destroyed, so as not to cause panic because of the repeated tragedy. The relatives were told that the tourists had disappeared in a completely different place where an avalanche covered them, and they could not find the bodies, and from the conductor they took a subscription to not disclose what had happened on the mountain for 25 years.
--- End quote ---
Well there doesnt appear to be much information on the story. And I would have thought there would have been a similar interest by the media ! ?
--- End quote ---
Yes there isn't any information , but they explained it ,of course, with a cover up... Honestly if there was a cover up how would an unknown journalists know about it... Highly unprobable but ,we must doubt everything .
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Ehtnisba on April 15, 2019, 04:20:54 PM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on April 15, 2019, 01:47:51 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ehtnisba on April 13, 2019, 04:35:04 PM ---Is this true? What do you think?
https://www.iksinfo.ru/stati/zagadochnie-mesta/item/685-gora-mertvetsov.html
A local resident, who participated in the search for missing tourists in Leningrad as a guide, said that in February 1961 another group of 9 people died on the mountain of the dead. These were tourists, researchers from Leningrad, who decided to find out the causes of the death of Dyatlovtsy and prove that an accident had become the whole vein.
However, they soon discovered their bodies. The scenario was similar - ripped from the inside of the tent. Wild horror on the dead faces, a similar nature of internal damage. Only this time the bodies did not lie at remote distances, but in the right circle, in the center of which was one of the tents. As in the history of Dyatlovtsy valuables were not touched, no trace of any struggle was found.
From the words of the same guide it follows that the corpses of tourists were destroyed, so as not to cause panic because of the repeated tragedy. The relatives were told that the tourists had disappeared in a completely different place where an avalanche covered them, and they could not find the bodies, and from the conductor they took a subscription to not disclose what had happened on the mountain for 25 years.
--- End quote ---
Well there doesnt appear to be much information on the story. And I would have thought there would have been a similar interest by the media ! ?
--- End quote ---
Yes there isn't any information , but they explained it ,of course, with a cover up... Honestly if there was a cover up how would an unknown journalists know about it... Highly unprobable but ,we must doubt everything .
--- End quote ---
Yes thats an explanation I suppose, especially in the Soviet Union days when the Media would have been carefully monitored. Then its down to local gossip and rumour etc, but even that could have been censored. Just all adds to the difficulty of getting at the truth in this Dyatlov Incident.
NkZ:
I didn't find info on the location of the "chum", so here is my guess based on :
+ the 1km range from the tent
+ the background of the photo
If correct this location is at the crossing of a trail (did it exist then ?) below the tent (200 feet?) and one going down towards the stream.
I've made an ugly recollection of general map+WAB "map of cedar-ravine area"+ google earth: WAB suggested that the 4 had a "crash" lower than the cedar before moving in it's direction: the position he suggests sort of fits (with all imprecisions of my map pasting...) with the trail coming down from the "chum"
So scenario:
+"wild" tribe attacks and pulls everyone out of the tent
+ they are led towards chum, but 5 escape and go down to cedar to hide (but why would they light a fire ....)
+ 4 are taken to chum but somehow escape run down towards ravine, fall and get hurt
+ ...
all in all doesn't look very credible...
Nordlander:
The 1933 mass murder of eight Soviets by the Khanty is well documented, mostly by Finnish scholars wno write in English and who can interview the Natives in their language. The Khanty and the Nentsy (Samoyed) were both outraged by a woman trespassing on their sacred island. Their languages are of course much closer to Finnish than to Russian.
As people have pointed out, though, that event was a long time before 1959. Still, there are ongoing problems with the Khanty and Nentsy resisting incorporation into Russia: right now they are protesting about corporate attempts to take their oil resources. (They have never really gotten along with the Mansi, who are more assimilationist). Tensions are also percolating at the Manupupuner Rocks, sacred to the Komi. Komi guides are posted at the rocks, but tourists have still been climbing the rocks and chipping away pieces of them. So they are going to shut down access to them for a while, which sounds similar to what allegedly happened to Dyatlov Pass. One of the demands the Khanty had was to remove Soviets from their land, which would have been ever more of a problem in 1959 because of all the sports tourists.
As for the chum, it's impossible to tell whether it is Khanty or Mansi. But it may be relevant that a ritual slaughter of reindeer preceded the mass slaughter of the Soviet brigade (the one near Dyatlov Pass commemorated the killing of a moose, as others have noted).
I think an earlier structure may be more relevant to the incident than the chum. The hikers took photos of a "sky burial" of a Native shaman on sticks. I wasn't able to find out if it was prohibited to take pictures of this grave, but it IS forbidden to have women near it. In fact, one of the reasons it is elevated it to keep it above the contamination that women can carry. Khanty keep their totems or "idols" in attics, and women aren't allowed to go there. The Soviets tried to collectivize these peoples and house them in apartment blocks, with was anathema to them since if a woman occupied a higher floor she would pollute the entire building.
NkZ:
We are definitly in a very special landscape! I wonder if we have a translation of the « Mansi » signs the Group took pictures of ?
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