Theories Discussion > Murdered

Murdered for entering into a sacred place

<< < (8/8)

jarrfan:
I have been thinking about the murder theory. There was mention made in one of the theories that the group was murdered because the government found information the hikers may have been planning to flee the country. What makes me think this is possible is the oldest member of the group, Semyon.

Perhaps there was a secret the guys were up to and fighting about, whether they should leave with Semyon as he had planned but did not mention it to anyone until after they started out. He may have had connections to people where they were going to end up that would help them cross the border into Finland. In short, he was in on the hike at the last minute and may have brought a trail of suspicion with him.

It is 1,776 miles to the Finnish border from Ortoten so they definitely would have had to have assistance from someone.

Perhaps things went terribly wrong because his secret was known and the government thought this would be an appropriate way to deal with the hikers before they met  their contacts, not really knowing if all the hikers were planning on fleeing.

Yuri Yudin may not have been aware of it when he turned back, or maybe he turned back because he knew the plan would fail. This is all conjecture.

The diary of Lyudia expressed her depression and anxiety. The long and arduous trip with bad accommodations and food may have made Semyon want to share his secret plan with the male hikers.

They kept up the charade of the hike fearing someone might have found out about it even storing food, and they were being followed. Perhaps that was another reason they did not take the stove, the smoke would be easily detected by military.

If they were approached with lights and guns and peeked out to see that their plan was discovered, this would be a good reasonf for the small cuts in the wall of the tent and their leaving the tent.
 
With the injuries of the ravine hikers, I cannot imagine any way they could even perform digging of the dens with their deadly wounds of chest injuries, Lyuda's heart with massive hemorrhage of the right atria.

I would think these injuries would have had to been inflicted at their death site, since they would be basically in the lasts breaths of life.

Their murder would also explain the severe beating and torture as the government tried to find out who they were meeting in Ortoten and most of them did not know and were beaten so badly hoping they would give up names, which they probably didn't even know.


Perhaps the two Yuri's were left alone at the fire for a short time thinking they could warm up and ty would be able to talk their way out of it but their torturers knew they would not be able to get away so they continued the torture on the other hikers and returned to finish them off, or vice versa.


Dyatlov and the other two found appearing to be crawling toward the tent may have escaped much of the torture and tried to help their felllow hikers, even taking some clothing from the 2 Yuri's down to them to show the agents who were interrogating the ravine members they wanted to help and wanted no one to be harmed, thinking maybe they would not be and tried to convince the government people they were all innocent, which many may have been.

I don't agree with the theory of the kataballic wind in that no matter if there was this wind, it would still not be any reason for the injuries to the hikers.

I am throwing this out for review and thank you for any information to dispute this possibility... Jarrfan.

BottledBrunette:
Wow, that is one interesting and very plausible theory.  It makes sense.  But, Lyuda was a staunch, poster child for communism, so, can't see her wanting to leave sunny Russia, so if there were going to be any defections, they sure as heck wouldn't tell her for fear of being turned in.  But, I can see your point and its very interesting, indeed.

jarrfan:
I agree Lyuda probably did not know until the government showed up, then they were all suspect. Perhaps why she had such brutal injuries, they were trying to get her to confess and she kept saying she knew nothing about it.

This may be the answer to the 4th camera no one knew about. If you are leaving the country, maybe Semyon thought he might be able to use this camera to sell or perhaps the people he was planning on meeting in  Ortolan asked him for one? Up for grabs on that one.

Loose}{Cannon:
This rumor started by the paranoid communist mentality of the University leaders. They instructed the search students to report back immediately if they find any evidence the DP group attempt to defect.  The issue is, there has never been any evidence... Just paranoia.  In addition, they would have had to travel some 1000 kilometers or more on foot to the Arctic ocean to be picked up by a submarine.   nea1

The Russians stole top secret nuke information via 9 spies in the Manhattan project.  Point being, the US didn't need to risk a billion dollar submarine to extract a few collage students in 1959 regardless of their nuke knowledge.  However, the Russian people were made paranoid through communist propaganda that the US has infiltrated everything and are the boogieman and scape-goat for common state fookups.

There are people still today that think Russia is responsible for everything they don't like.... So it goes.

Charles:

--- Quote from: GeneralFailure on March 31, 2019, 05:24:25 AM ---To me it's clear now that the "chum" is not a chum but the place of a sacrifice,
--- End quote ---
You are absolutely right.


--- Quote from: GeneralFailure on March 31, 2019, 05:24:25 AM ---which puts the entire scene on a sacred territory.
--- End quote ---
There are places that are more sacred than others, as gods are not related to with the same deference by the believers themselves. There might be "the" sacred moutain (the one, the oldest, the first), a sacred mountain, a place where a big bloody sacrifice once happened, a place where some common small sacrifices are repeated... these places are not "sacred territory" in the same way. But as long as a big animal such an elk was the victim at the sacrifice rite, yes, indeed, it is "sacred territory".


--- Quote from: GeneralFailure on March 31, 2019, 05:24:25 AM ---So maybe the interrogated mansi are lying about the mountain not being sacred, or they are telling the truth and the mountain is sacred for the khanty/ostiaks(was any khanty interrogated?). Because it's clear for me now that the place indeed is sacred.
--- End quote ---
Maybe they understood the question as "Is it the sacred mountain ?". If the question was "Is there any sacred place in the mountain" ? They might have answered "Oh yes, plenty of them !". But more probably they kept silent because the names of the mountain were enough, shouting loudly enough their religious meaning : "mount of the death" and "don't go there"... are immemorial ways of naming "sacred territory". Being asked if the mountain named "don't go there" was sacred territory should have been a strange experiment... a kind of permission given to make any answer whatsover to such dumb people (Are they making fun of us ? Their question contains the answer !). It's like when the French rescue mission reached Vanikoro and asked about La Pérouse : the native began their story with "Long ago, a big canot arrived from the sea and ghosts landed..." For two centuries, the French came back wondering about the fate of La Pérouse but the answer was given at the very first sentence, "ghosts" landed means "we killed the strangers". The descendant of native people keep silent now or make fancy answers and the French hope that they will speak in the end (they keep silent because everything was said from day one)... These people are not satisfied with the truth, what can we give them ?

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[*] Previous page

There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
Go to full version