Theories Discussion > Infra-sound / Gravity fluctuation / Teleportation
Infrasound? Most unlikely.
Per Inge Oestmoen:
--- Quote from: Jean Daniel Reuss on December 02, 2020, 02:13:51 PM ---
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on December 01, 2020, 09:49:49 AM --- ... Reply #104
--- End quote ---
Dear Per Inge Oestmoen, we are in agreement on the essential aspect that I have even included in my signature:
" There is nothing supernatural and mysterious about the injuries suffered by the Dyatlov group. They are all consistent with an attack by a group of professional killers who wanted to take the lives of the nine."
[...]
I have already written a few comments concerning your arguments. Look at :
Jean Daniel Reuss : November 21, 2020, 09:57:01 AM ==> Altercation on the pass > Altercation on the pass -> Reply #59
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.msg11147#msg11147
Here are some additional comments.
These combat-trained professional killers would not let themselves be punched in the face
1) - How can we explain the damaged fists of Dyatlov, Slobodin, Kolmogorova and perhaps even Krivononishenko ? Their fists really hit something hard, is that right ? If this is not the face of an attacker, then what is it?
2) - The advantage of superior training diminishes in real combat conditions.
It was in complete darkness. The wind was blowing. Powdery snow was flying everywhere. The snowy ground was slippery
3) - Nobody knows exactly how these "combat-trained professional killers" are trained.
I rather think that the attackers were men resistant to fatigue and cold, good skiers to be able to make the trip from North-2 to the tent quickly. But they were also great savages brutes, good at hitting hard with a big stick but not very fast because they were crammed into their warm clothes.
4) - According to my reenactment the first fights occurred on the slope, shortly after leaving the tent, when the hikers had not had time to be slowed down by the cold. The young and sporty hikers remained flexible and fast in attack as well as in defence.
they might in some point in the future reveal what they had seen.
I cannot understand at all what a hiker or a wanderer could have seen that was really important for the security of the Soviet state on the slope of the Kholat Syakhl. Could you give us some more concrete ideas?
there was no reason to perform any interrogations or torture
I think the opposite is true because the DPI is an unusual case which, as soon as it is discovered, raises a lot of questions.
• How could good citizens, who with the voucher were on a semi-official mission, suddenly become men to be killed without warning ?
• This is precisely what all the intelligence services would have to find out in great details (What exactly did they see? Who did they meet?...etc ).
• In these cases there is first of all a fundamental principle which is : "The dead will never speak again and then we will not be able to learn anything more"
--- End quote ---
Dear Jean Daniel Reuss:
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. They are appreciated.
- As for the damages to the fists of Dyatlov, Slobodin, Kolmogorova and Krivononishenko, I admit that have no answer to what caused these injuries. I have considered it and read suggestions before that they may have been the result of fistfighting, but in my view we cannot know that. I still doubt that a killing squad consisting of trained combat specialists would let themselves be punched, particularly KGB special forces.
- The Urals were and are an area where a lot of secret tests and operations are performed. If the Dyatlov group witnessed something like that, the Soviet government might not accept the risk involved in letting them remain alive.
- The state security agents would have no need to torture the Dyatlov group if this was indeed a preventive killing to ensure that a potential threat to state security was eliminated. The nine students would then have witnessed something that no one outside of a few Soviet institutions were allowed to know the existence of. If the students observed some sort of secret operation, the mere knowledge of its occurrence would be enough for the Soviets to consider the students a serious risk which must be removed. Thus, there was no reason for the KGB to torture them since there was no information to extract.
- The operation was competently executed, in such a way that part of the public could be led to believe that it was an accident. Posterity has shown that the killers were right; many have believed that the tragedy was an accident - just as the orchestrators of the murder had planned and foreseen.
- A detail that adds weight to the conclusion that it were the state agencies that planned and performed the murder, is seen when we know that nothing of the students' belongings were stolen or removed. Rogue GULAG guards, loggers or common criminals would have taken with them the valuables, and so would the Mansi likely have done.
- What can be said with certainty is that the attackers attacked with one mission: To ensure that the Dyatlov group was eliminated.
RMK:
--- Quote from: mk on December 06, 2020, 07:40:59 AM ---
--- Quote from: Jean Daniel Reuss on December 05, 2020, 03:10:13 PM ---...I am sure that I have recopied the following sentence, which has now disappeared:
"Dubinina [or Lyudmila] was also a very forthright and outspoken girl who held strong opinions. Her enthusiasm could be summed in a phrase she used from time to time : "for the Motherland. For Stalin !" It was said to her that she would not hesitate to tell someone staight to their face if she thought they were wrong in any way...."
(I do not believe I am wrong because I am very bad in English language and I would not have been able to create such a complicated statement).
See : Jean Daniel Reuss: Victims and Case Files > Witness Testimonies > No route map ==> April 13, 2020, 02:15:02 PM --> Reply #2 https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=44.msg8837#msg8837
3° ••• Conclusion: since Avril 13, 2020 the following opinion concerning Dubinina (probably coming from Arkhipov Oleg Nikolaevich) has disappeared from this website:
"Her enthusiasm could be summed in a phrase she used from time to time : "for the Motherland For Stalin !
--- End quote ---
Yes, I do remember reading these things. If they are speculation or exaggeration, I'm glad they've been removed.
--- End quote ---
Well, at least there's apparently at least a secondary source supporting that detail about Dubinina. But I agree, mk, that exaggeration or speculation reported as fact doesn't belong on this website.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on December 10, 2020, 04:25:02 AM ---1. There were secret military tests in many parts of the Urals. It is very conceivable that the Dyatlov group became witnesses to some kinds of weapon tests or military activities at the time.
--- End quote ---
Could you refer me to a source that explains how the Soviet military would be conducting secret tests so far away from supporting infrastructure, like a base, for example? And in any event, why would the military be doing tests at that time? I thought all military exercises were to be postponed until after the XXI Party Congress was over!
--- Quote from: Jean Daniel Reuss on December 05, 2020, 03:10:13 PM ---[reply #107]
--- End quote ---
Jean Daniel Reuss, I feel as though you and I still misunderstand each other, due to language barrier. You say that the murder of the nine hikers was an act of terrorism, to send a message to the central government in Moscow. I ask: if terror was the motive, why didn't the killers make it more obvious that the nine hikers had been murdered? An obvious, brutal, senseless murder is more terrorizing than a murder that looks like it maybe could have been a series of misadventures instead. I accept your explanation for why the killers didn't shoot the hikers, but I was not asking specifically about shooting. If terror was their goal, why didn't they use some obviously man-made objects as weapons? If terror was their goal, why didn't they mutilate the corpses in a way that only a human would do? By not making the hikers' deaths obviously homicide, they allowed the government to spin a superficially plausible explanation of hypothermia and a "compelling natural force".
sarapuk:
Infrasound ? Most unlikely. But lots of other wild theories are likely ? KGB again ? Why is it that the KGB have to be linked to literally every type of mysterious event that happened.
Per Inge Oestmoen:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on December 11, 2020, 12:06:13 PM ---Infrasound ? Most unlikely. But lots of other wild theories are likely ? KGB again ? Why is it that the KGB have to be linked to literally every type of mysterious event that happened.
--- End quote ---
There are three reasons why we have reason to suspect that the KGB may be the orchestrators and executors of the Dyatlov Pass tragedy:
1. The nine students were very intelligent people who would understand what they had observed, if they indeed observed some secret activity in the Urals. This understanding made them a potential future threat to state security, should anyone among them tell others or let some careless words slip by to a friend or spouse. The Soviet regime was not one to take such risks.
2. The Dyatlov Pass tragedy seemed to be an accident, but at a close examination we see that the injuries they had suffered are compatible with human lethal attack - and only with human lethal attack. The injuries could not have resulted from any nonexistent avalanches, nor could they possibly result from falls. Thus, the fate of the nine hikers was the result of human action, and it is beyond doubt that the killers took great pains to make the whole thing look like an accident. If there had not been a sudden rise in temperature in the Kholat Syakhl area during the night of February 2, 1959, the mission would have been faultless since all the victims would have frozen to death as intended. As it were, the students had to be hunted down since even without proper clothing for winter (it was left in the tent when the students were driven out) they did not die rapidly as planned. Only very resourceful, determined attackers could have shown the discipline to do this, and the fact that none of the hikers' belongings were stolen proves that the objective of the attackers was to exterminate the nine. There must have been a reason for that.
3. The KGB was the most sophisticated, scarily competent and merciless intelligence and special operations organization known in human history. To orchestrate a ruthless murder and make it look like an "accident" in such a way as we can see in the Dyatlov Pass killings is typical of them.
Do we know for sure? No. The evidence we have, would not hold up in any court because the evidence that the nine were killed still does not prove the exact identity of the murderers. We shall not know with certainty until someone who knows tells the whole truth.
mk:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on December 11, 2020, 12:06:13 PM ---...Why is it that the KGB have to be linked to literally every type of mysterious event that happened.
--- End quote ---
Hahaha! I agree! It's because they make such excellent villains.
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