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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Reason for leaving the tent  (Read 1757 times)

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July 21, 2020, 04:18:26 PM
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beak


Been following this for over 5 years on and off. Found this site last week.
One of the things I haven't seen mentioned is a possible reason for leaving the tent and various other things too.
Having seen theories about avalanche, slab slip,missile testing and Katabatic winds then one thing which has either escaped my attention or maybe hasn't been considered is a "Sonic Boom". This would have been very startling and might also have caused a "slab slip" (caused by the sonic boom) in the snow. Accompanied by a bright light (aircraft on fire and out of control?) then it becomes reasonable to assume that a tent evacuation might have been entirely understandable. Also the "burned treetops" as though "flames were following them" could be explained by this. The flames weren't following them .... >> They were following "it" (maybe to investigate/help) once the panic had subsided. At that time the US were pursuing all sorts of supersonic(and faster) aircraft and it is not unreasonable to assume that Soviets were doing the same. Hence Zolotaryev (or whoever he was) made the statement about the trip being "famous across the world" - and the reason why he was there to photograph a proud moment in USSR capability. It's certain to me that something went wrong here. The seemingly errant position of the tent is obviously deliberate - perhaps to enable Zolotaryev to gain a decent vantage point for taking photographs of the new amazing aircraft. This might explain why he had the camera to his death and was attempting to report back (paper and pen). The apparent argument between Zolotaryev and Dyatlov (if at all) would have been about the strange pitching of the tent in such a precarious position. After leaving the tent then fights may have broken out about the pitching of the tent risking lives etc ("I told you so" kind of argument) and hence the party then splitting into groups (now that things really HAD gone wrong). Lyudmila (being the staunchest communist among them) was most likely to follow Zolotaryev from this point. The absence of her tongue (presumably pre-mortem) becomes even more alarming in this scenario.

Just a theory.

The idea of some kind of "deal" going down also interests me but why go all the way out there to do so? Just makes it more obvious with a greater risk of interception - which is perhaps what could have occurred?
 

July 22, 2020, 12:47:03 AM
Reply #1
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sparrow


Hello beak.
I find it hard to believe that young Russian adults would not have heard or at least known about sonic booms.  I do admit that I haven't read about a sonic boom on this forum.
I have read a fair bit on this site about miscellaneous Russian planes, rockets, etc. blowing up or crashing. But if you want to follow that line of thinking, how about an American plane being shot down or crashing? Then if the Russians did shut down the pass area for three years then maybe they were trying to find this plane or ? , retrieve and study it.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 12:55:06 AM by sparrow »
 

July 22, 2020, 01:37:28 AM
Reply #2
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Ting


If you accept that Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova died in the process of returning to the tent then the key question becomes - What is the reason for leaving the tent through cut sides (BTW some of the cuts on the tent appear quite straight and long which suggests to me that when cut the canvas was reasonably taut not collapsed and folded.) without shoes and coats, moving 1500m or so away and then at some point deciding to return? If an avalanche or slab slide had occurred and made accessing the clothing/equipment impractical how would that situation be any different some time later ? The attempted return is hard to explain. Were all 3 confused from the effects of hypothermia so much so that they believed they could reach the tent, overcome whatever the original obstacle was to retrieving useful items and return ? Seems a stretch.   

I would be interested to know how long it would take to walk the 1500m in the dark, in such low temperatures, over rock and icy snow and with inadequate footwear. My guess is about 45-60 minutes.
Also, if there was a slab slide or snow wall collapse is it possible to start removing the snow but then find that the removed snow is immediately replaced by further snow slipping down making it pointless to continue excavating ?

The sonic boom idea is a novel take on the mechanism for starting an avalanche if you subscribe to the avalanche theory.
 

July 22, 2020, 05:46:33 AM
Reply #3
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beak


I don't really like the slab idea but I _do_ like the way that a secret supersonic aircraft neatly ties quite a few elements together - both in terms of the events that night and politically. I read somewhere that they left the tent "in the wrong direction" instead of backtracking to the labas (which would have made more sense). So this could be explained by disorientation but I would expect that between the 9(?) of them then they should be able to aim for the labas correctly. More likely that they were deliberately heading towards something which they had seen which is backed up by burnt treetops in the direction which they went. As is often the way with cases like this (and aircrashes etc) then I think that more than one thing has gone wrong either concurrently or sequentially but due to the things which we KNOW are missing (like the Finnish knives etc) due to what appears to have been a "clean-up" rather than search rescue then it's really difficult. As we all know.
Of course - if they were all drunk then that could explain pretty much everything too (or rather not explain but end the debate anyway). Maybe someone was drinking that "changes" with drink. One of the girls diaries mentions the "boys" had agreed not to smoke. Smoke what? Clearly that concerned them enough to put it in the diary. There are varying reports on whether there _was_ any alcohol and a rather telling statement by the investigators about a bottle of medicinal alcohol that was untouched. Seems strange to make such a big deal about that unless there's a specific reason to : especially given the lack of interest in other more important factors.

It IS interesting that they closed the area for 3 years : at least the US has an "area" which is permanently closed off for such purposes. Also interesting that all helicopters were _meant_ to be grounded due to the CCCP conference - yet one was out on an illegal "hunting expedition" in that area(?!).
 

July 22, 2020, 06:17:30 AM
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BobbyCollins


I have an old canvas wall tent that I am going to put up at the club next month and will be leaving it up for about 2 months. My question is how long can a tent like this stay up and any advice on how to make it last? I plan on putting down a ground cloth (old tarp) and I have already water sealed it with some Armor All brand general purpose water sealer. It will be set up between two rows of young pines that are maybe 7 years old. Has anyone on here ever used one for this long a period without taking it down and storing it? Any advice would be appreciated.
text to speech online converter
This is it, Coleman wall tent, early 80's with a new outdoor fabric roof put on it back in the spring.

 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2021, 08:36:03 PM by BobbyCollins »
 

July 22, 2020, 02:47:09 PM
Reply #5
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

I have an old canvas wall tent that I am going to put up at the club next month and will be leaving it up for about 2 months. My question is how long can a tent like this stay up and any advice on how to make it last? I plan on putting down a ground cloth (old tarp) and I have already water sealed it with some Armor All brand general purpose water sealer. It will be set up between two rows of young pines that are maybe 7 years old. Has anyone on here ever used one for this long a period without taking it down and storing it? Any advice would be appreciated.

This is it, Coleman wall tent, early 80's with a new outdoor fabric roof put on it back in the spring.


I have used a similar tent in the 1970's. I had that type plus an inner tent in which I slept over night on a wild weekend in Wales. By wild I mean the weather was verocious. A terrible storm nearly blew the tent away. I stayed in the tent throughout the storm that knocked down trees and blocked roads etc. The tent stood firm. Dont know about 2 months. I suppose that would depend on how well the tent was fastened down.
DB
 

July 22, 2020, 02:52:55 PM
Reply #6
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
*-*+/
Been following this for over 5 years on and off. Found this site last week.
One of the things I haven't seen mentioned is a possible reason for leaving the tent and various other things too.
Having seen theories about avalanche, slab slip,missile testing and Katabatic winds then one thing which has either escaped my attention or maybe hasn't been considered is a "Sonic Boom". This would have been very startling and might also have caused a "slab slip" (caused by the sonic boom) in the snow.


I think the general consensus regarding any kind of Avalanche is that an Avalanche wasnt possible on that slope.
DB
 

July 22, 2020, 05:56:50 PM
Reply #7
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beak


Agree. But I don't mean an avalanche. When two different layers of snow - formed at different times & temperatures - lay upon each other then there is always the potential for a "slip" to occur. Especially if a sudden shock sets them off. They will slide one upon the other because there is no friction between them. This even happens with normal land/mud as the good people of Weymouth have just found out. This is why in ski resorts they deliberately set them off either by massive sound or by explosives on cables that run the entire mountain ridges. The explosives are placed on cables and then a set reference of cable is sent around to deliver the charge to a known position then detonated (to form a shockwave). Most avalanches start with some sort of "slip" initially which then develops (under the right conditions) into a full avalanche. Still makes a load noise whichever. Someone please correct me on this - it's been a while since I cared about these things.
 

July 23, 2020, 01:58:18 PM
Reply #8
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sarapuk

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Agree. But I don't mean an avalanche. When two different layers of snow - formed at different times & temperatures - lay upon each other then there is always the potential for a "slip" to occur. Especially if a sudden shock sets them off. They will slide one upon the other because there is no friction between them. This even happens with normal land/mud as the good people of Weymouth have just found out. This is why in ski resorts they deliberately set them off either by massive sound or by explosives on cables that run the entire mountain ridges. The explosives are placed on cables and then a set reference of cable is sent around to deliver the charge to a known position then detonated (to form a shockwave). Most avalanches start with some sort of "slip" initially which then develops (under the right conditions) into a full avalanche. Still makes a load noise whichever. Someone please correct me on this - it's been a while since I cared about these things.

Yes I know what you mean. An Avalanche sounds more dramatic than a slip. Problem still the same though. It would have to have been one hell of a slip to cause the Dyatlov Group to abandon their Tent. And the Tent doesnt appear to have been damaged by any such event.
DB
 

August 12, 2020, 12:40:03 PM
Reply #9
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Squatch


If you accept that Dyatlov, Slobodin and Kolmogorova died in the process of returning to the tent then the key question becomes - What is the reason for leaving the tent through cut sides (BTW some of the cuts on the tent appear quite straight and long which suggests to me that when cut the canvas was reasonably taut not collapsed and folded.) without shoes and coats, moving 1500m or so away and then at some point deciding to return? If an avalanche or slab slide had occurred and made accessing the clothing/equipment impractical how would that situation be any different some time later ? The attempted return is hard to explain. Were all 3 confused from the effects of hypothermia so much so that they believed they could reach the tent, overcome whatever the original obstacle was to retrieving useful items and return ? Seems a stretch.   
If you accept that the mountain of Kholat Syakhl has a special microclimate, then a theory that accounts for everything is possible. Without this missing piece, the evidence does not tie together, and hence the mystery for such a long time.

I think that severe weather around Kholat Syakhl can result in snow being transferred from the west side to the east side. Strong wind gusts funnel up the west side of the mountain and go over the top, which causes snow to "rain down" on the side where the Dyatlov group was camping. This snow came down on the tent as two of the group, well-dressed for it, were outside inspecting or fixing the tent because of severe high winds. The eye-level slits in the tent were used by Igor Dyatlov to communicate with the two outside the tent. He most likely had a flashlight that he could stick out of these slits to see better outside. This flashlight was later dropped outside when the snow raining down on the tent caused all the hikers to panic and assume an avalanche had started. A second flashlight was dropped on the way down the slope.

Later, after the fire at the cedar tree gave out, the surviving seven created a den in a nearby river ravine. This eventually collapsed and a mini-avalanche ensued, killing four as they tried to escape down the ravine and injuring one (Rustem Slobodin). The three survivors had no choice but to head back to the tent and hope that it was still accessible and usable. Dyatlov died on his back while the other two were there and communicating with him. Eventually the two remaining survivors succumbed to hypothermia as they continued toward the tent.