Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Blkdahlia on August 14, 2018, 02:25:11 AM
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Just curious on everyone’s thoughts about the missing tongue of Dubinina.
The autopsy report said the tongue was missing. There was no explanation.
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Rotten away while face down in a stream of water.
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Rotten away while face down in a stream of water.
That’s one possibility. Thibeaux, Kolevatov, and Zolotaryov were also face down in a stream of water but they managed to still have their tongues.
I just assumed that since my tongue survives in saliva every day, it might have the ability to survive in running water.
That was one of the things that stood out to me about this case. Dubinina’s tongue was gone.
From what I have read most conclude it was the result of her mouth being open under running water.
Wonder how long that water had been flowing like that under so much compressed snow?
I found the position that she died in to be baffling. On her knees face down in the waterflow, covered in snow. Not a position or place one would choose to die in nor would a friend place one in.
What do I know? I just feel so bad for these kids. They deserve a proper investigation with investigators having compassion and dedication for the truth.
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I just assumed that since my tongue survives in saliva every day, it might have the ability to survive in running water
Your tongue is alive and otherwise not rotten. Lol
On her knees face down in the waterflow
Which is unlike the other three.
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I just assumed that since my tongue survives in saliva every day, it might have the ability to survive in running water
Your tongue is alive and otherwise not rotten. Lol
On her knees face down in the waterflow
Which is unlike the other three.
Absolutely correct! This is no ordinary living tongue. What do you think about the blood found in her stomach?
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That could have been from the massive haemorrhage Lyudmila had in her heart's right atrium.
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Oh wow. I never thought of that.
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Am I the only person who has considered she bit it off or it was cut off by an attacker?
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http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=27.0
Diaphragm of mouth and tongue absent
Absolutely nothing about being cut, severed, bitten, chopped etc. The entire lining of the mouth and tongue was absent....thats it.
The stomach contained up to 100 cm3 of mucous mass of a dark reddish color.
The position of the internal organs is correct, in the pleural cavities was contained up to one and a half liters of liquid dark blood. The pericardial bag contained up to 20 cm 3 of a yellowish transparent liquid. Heart size 12 x 4 x 5. In the region of the right ventricle of an irregular oval shape, a hemorrhage of 4 x 4 cm, with diffuse impregnation of the right ventricular muscle. The thickness of the left ventricular muscle is 1.4 cm and the right one is 0.5 cm. The right and left half of the heart contained up to 50 cm of liquid dark blood.
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Dubinina Official Autopsy Report
''The inner surface of the aortic smooth and clean. Light from the surface sinyushnokrasnogo color fluffy to the touch. In the context of lung tissue dark red color when pressed with the cut surface liberally dripping bloody foamy fluid lumen of the bronchi free. The horns of the hyoid bone XXXXXXXX unusual mobility, soft tissue adjacent to the hyoid bone gryaznoserogo color. Aperture mouth and tongue missing. The upper edge of the hyoid bone is exposed. The mucous membrane of the esophagus, trachea bronchi sinyushnokrasnovatogo color. The injuries of the head area of the soft tissue and "skin bath 'limbs are posthumous changes (decay and decomposition) Dubinina corpse, which was recently before finding water.''
Note ; It doesnt state if all the 4 horns of the hyoid bone were subject to unusual mobility. Also what is the XXXXXXXX ! ?
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something was crossed out in the report.
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-355-357?rbid=17743
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What in the world does that mean? twitch7
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I dont think, that the rav4 bodies were found in a very natural position as well. Anyway, we can presume, that the position of Kolevatov and Zolotoryov kinda makes sense (trying to warm each other). Nikolai was some 30cm downstream (probably been closer to the other two, but separated (naturally or not) at some point. Although, if they died together, or one after another in a reasonably short period of time, given the fact that they were very cold already and that bodies get stiff after death, it is strange, but anyway.
Dubinina is in the most awklard position. Probably her body was as well closer to the guys, but slipped away downstream to the position in which she was found. Her arms are pointing upwards, she is on her knees. Looks to me, as her body literally slipped, postmortem or in the best case she was nearly dead, with no strenght to move at all. According to the autopsy, everyone from the rav4 died as a result of "act of violence". I am wondering, what is the chance that they were murdered, or at least severely beaten, then left to die, and afterwards their bodies were just thrown on one another, piled up? Than it was a matter of exposure and nature for the decaying process.
As for the missing tongue, it is very odd, that in the autopsy report it is just mentioned as "absent". ("The tongue in the oral cavity is absent. The diaphragm of the mouth and tongue is absent.") She was in a strange possition, mouth open, therefore snow and melted water running through and generally a lot more exposed to elements than the others in the rav, but still strange to entirely lose the tongue, as it was never been there in the first place. In warmer conditions would make more sense, but with all the snow and freezing cold water... Or, the autopsy report is just presented in a clumsy way.
I dont know why, I keep recalling the Donnie Eichar`s Dead mountain, where he is describing the character of Liuda, and he mentions that it is known that sometimes when irritated, she would show untamed tongue behaviour, IIRC. If true, what a sad irony.
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She probably did have a mouth on her. In the case of murder, it’s possible she had some things to say so her tongue was removed.
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I wonder what was crossed out in the report and why ! ! ? ?
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She was found with her head down & mouth open in a running steam after her body had been frozen for several months - so it's not really supprising the tounge was missing.
It was likely carried away as the stream began to thaw and running water began to flow - frozen flesh becomes very brittle and likely to break off as it begins to thaw, especially with running water applying a force..
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We dont know for certain if her body was frozen there for months ! ?
''The horns of the hyoid bone XXXXXXXX unusual mobility''
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We dont know for certain if her body was frozen there for months ! ?
''The horns of the hyoid bone XXXXXXXX unusual mobility''
You have evidence that the body wasn't left in situ?
Otherwise it would be frozen there for several months.
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MISSING EVIDENCE
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"According to Henrietta Churkin, a forensic pathologist present at the autopsy: 'When it was discovered that Dubinina had no tongue, we wondered even more. I asked Boris [Vozrozhdenny]: "Where could [the tongue] go?" He shrugged his shoulders. It seemed to me he was depressed and even scared."
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http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=64056
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;;Although such solid snow is not an obstacle to mice, in search of food they are able to grit concrete in the literal sense of the word, it is more likely that the tongue is frozen in avalanche snow and it was torn off at the moment of the coup and the fall of the body into the water . ;; This sounds like nonsense to me. Any way its purely speculative.
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If someone is suggesting that the Dyatlov Group built a Den near the stream and then an avalanche fell on them well that just doesnt make any sense whatsoever. First of all they are hardly likely to make a Den near a stream. Secondly the bodies were found in different areas not all at the stream. Thirdly there is no suggestion that an avalanche actually took place and caused death and injury. ETC ETC.
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http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=64055
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=51210
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=64622
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Well there may have been a fall of snow, but by all accounts if that was so it would have been unlikely to have caused the serious injuries on some of the bodies.
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http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=86011
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=84600
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[[ High Altitude Medicine & Biology. 8(1):56-61 · March 2007.
In avalanche accidents, the significance of major trauma as a cause of morbidity and mortality is controversial.
Asphyxia is by far the most important reason for death. The severity of injury was minor or moderate.
Once the avalanche stops, it settles like concrete. Bodily movement is nearly impossible.Statistics show that 93 percent of avalanche victims survive if dug out within 15 minutes. After 45 minutes, only 20 to 30 percent of victims are alive. After two hours, very few people survive.
Chest trauma was also common. However, the majority of rib and sternum fractures occurred in patients with a history of CPR and were considered as resuscitation associated injuries at autopsy. ]]
PLEASE TAKE NOTE : Re The Dyatlov Group. According to research carried out on avalanche victims over a considerable time scan and in many varied conditions, it looks like any potential avalanche at the site of the alleged Den area would have been considered a very minor avalanche and therefore it is highly unlikely that the snow would have caused the severe injuries on several of the bodies.
<iframe width="800" height="448" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bOnBRguDZ1I" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Никакой лавины не было:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=65874
В ручье произошло обрушение снежного укрытия по вине Дубининой:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=78905
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All the various investigations into avalanches suggest that NO AVALANCHES occurred in the vicinity of the Dyatlov Group during their last hours. Also it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that a fall of snow in the area of the so called Den would have caused the serious injuries on some of the bodies, prior to , during or after their demises. Researches have found that people can survive under heavy snow fall and not suffer any serious injuries, such as were found on some of the Dyatlov Group.
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http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=64056
It is a terrible heap of absurd and fables. It is necessary know at least elementary conditions and features of district, snow and a climate of that place where all it occurred.
Otherwise it looks as a deceit of readers of this forum.
If I am not mistaken, I already wrote a post about language in other section
http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=198.0
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Well there may have been a fall of snow, but by all accounts if that was so it would have been unlikely to have caused the serious injuries on some of the bodies.
No, in this place no falling of snow, a collapse and etc. in general is impossible
It is possible only in those imaginations who argues on it theoretically.
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Никакой лавины не было:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=65874
В ручье произошло обрушение снежного укрытия по вине Дубининой:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=78905
Oh, these theorists who sit on sofa …. Also sit in heat …
There anywhere there is no even the slightest possibility of landslips, collapses and other. At is in any level of snow. In the end of February 1959 it were general very little in comparison with other years when there that that was observed.
And to appoint guilty for nonexistent " failure" it in general behind a common sense side.
It is necessary to study realities in practice, instead of to invent quasiscientific fairy tales about "collapses".
It is the first.
The second. Concerning level of knowledge I too had an opinion. I remember that some time ago at our discussion «attempt at the law of conservation of energy» has been made. grin1
It was when for Dyatlov group offered to climb simply during snow (in a cave) in those clothes that was available for it. And there it should be warm as at home … grin1
It is not correct. When deficiency of heat for the person those conditions was an order 400 … 500 W, and the thermal emission even at average level of loading is no more 100 W, at factor of protection of clothes no more than 10 % it is deadly through 2 … 3 hours, and in 30 minutes there comes from suporousing stage. It is when the person cannot any more is independent leave overcooling process.
It is necessary to notice that lying in a cave metabolic heat is used only. It is 50 … 70 W. And it does not consider that the clothes even more will lose a thermal protection for the account намокания at thawing of snow from heat of a body.
And the third. At this forum it is not necessary to send readers to the big texts in Russian. It is necessary to respect readers that it not is their native language. Here the international structure, therefore by default (and on intention of founders of this site) is accepted English. Too it is easier to me to send all to the text in Russian, but I at first ask, whether can to read that the opponent. Otherwise it is necessary to retell all by the “own words” in English. The main thing here is the reader, instead of "writer".
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Единственный признак обрушения снега месячной давности - твёрдость снега.
Есть твёрдый снег - было обрушение:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=64055
Нет твёрдого снега - не было обрушения:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=65874
Все остальные теоретические предположения не имеют значения.
P.S. Пример аналогичного обрушения снежного укрытия:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=85098
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Единственный признак обрушения снега месячной давности - твёрдость снега.
These are reasonings of children of very small age. Especially it concerns: «the Unique sign» (c).
Does not happen there (at a cedar and nearby in radius of 500 m - ~ 1500 ft) friable snow to the first steady thaw. It is the beginning of April or the end of March.
In February the quantity of snow there was very small. There it was impossible not that to fall, and and even there was nothing to dig.
On what thickness of snow has been found DEN? - 30 sm (hardly 10 inches there are more)! The thickness of snow means was 35 … 40 sm (12 … 16 inches) when stacked it.
Snow can settle on 10 … 15 % from a thickness, but no more that. Another does not allow do durability of crystallisation and free intervals of air.
It is not necessary to think out here nonexistent point of the matter.
Has very correctly cited Global Moderator Loose} {Cannon: «Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.» ― Daniel Patrick Moynihan (с)
"Own facts" are there is a way to a deceit of readers.
And as who that has told:
«Все остальные теоретические предположения не имеют значения»(с)
Translate:
«All other theoretical assumptions have no value.» (с)
Here also I think, who it could be? J
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Все остальные теоретические предположения не имеют значения.
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P.S. Пример аналогичного обрушения снежного укрытия:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=85098
Well also what the general at Altai and that concrete place, in comparison with N.Ural?
Can you had time to visit, both there, and there? I was in time, and I can tell that it is absolutely different two climatic areas. Even if not to speak about quantity of snow which is well visible in pictures in that and other place. And that the Altay picture is made in безлесье, and the place “rav4” is in a vegetative zone. Therefore snow adjournment there essentially different.
It is not necessary to jump since February to May, it already starts to remind a juggling.
You (even in the message http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=64055 N 616) start to substitute snow of the beginning of the February, that snow that was in May (the telegramm from Ortukov). It is possible there is nothing not to speak Further, because it is substitution of actual facts by exclusively «you facts».
The analogue of Altai and N.Ural consists in such case - in what?
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PS. Once again, I ask: at this forum it is necessary write in language of its original, differently it will be disrespect for other public. If there is a desire to discuss in Russian for this purpose there are Russian forums, for example: http://pereval1959.forum24.ru/.
Then it will be possible to give here result, instead of simple copying of words.
PPS. It`s all today
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Было ли много снега в ручье в момент происшествия? Да, тогда в ручье снега было много.
Из дневника группы Дятлова от 31 января 1959 г.:
Нужно выбирать ночлег. Спускаемся на юг - в долину Ауспии. Это видимо самое снегопадное место. Ветер небольшой по снегу 1,2 - 2 м. толщиной.
Усталые, измученные принялись за устройство ночлега. Дров мало. Хилые сырые ели. Костер разводили на бревнах, неохота рыть яму.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/kopia-dnevnika-gruppy-datlova
Если в лесу глубина снега достигала 2-х метров, то что говорить об оврагах, ручьях и тому подобных углублениях, которые снег заметает в первую очередь. Заметание снегом ручья начиналось от левого берега и высота его в месте обнаружения тел изначально составляла 3-4 метра.
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Just curious on everyone’s thoughts about the missing tongue of Dubinina.
The autopsy report said the tongue was missing. There was no explanation.
Why was there no explanation ! ? We have some modern day investigators saying that SNOW was responsible for the MISSING TONGUE. But if SNOW really was responsible then surely that would have been included in the autopsy report or the findings soon after ! ? I strongly suggest that SNOW was not in any way whatsoever responsible for the MISSING TONGUE.
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http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=64056
It is a terrible heap of absurd and fables. It is necessary know at least elementary conditions and features of district, snow and a climate of that place where all it occurred.
Otherwise it looks as a deceit of readers of this forum.
If I am not mistaken, I already wrote a post about language in other section
http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=198.0
Yes Vladimir and it was a fine written explanation indeed! I hadn't really considered the existence of mechanical erosion of the soft tissues within running water. Coupled with the fact that the tissue itself was dead and actively decomposing in chemical terms.
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I won't even read these Russian links anymore... Its literally the source of why the case is fubared to begin with.
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Было ли много снега в ручье в момент происшествия? Да, тогда в ручье снега было много.
Из дневника группы Дятлова от 31 января 1959 г.:
Нужно выбирать ночлег. Спускаемся на юг - в долину Ауспии. Это видимо самое снегопадное место. Ветер небольшой по снегу 1,2 - 2 м. толщиной.
Усталые, измученные принялись за устройство ночлега. Дров мало. Хилые сырые ели. Костер разводили на бревнах, неохота рыть яму.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/kopia-dnevnika-gruppy-datlova
Если в лесу глубина снега достигала 2-х метров, то что говорить об оврагах, ручьях и тому подобных углублениях, которые снег заметает в первую очередь. Заметание снегом ручья начиналось от левого берега и высота его в месте обнаружения тел изначально составляла 3-4 метра.
This very naive explanation. Quantity and depth of snow very various in different places. If in a diary are written 2 metres (3,5 foots) in that place where they went in a river Auspia valley it does not mean that on a place of tent and in rav4 was as much.
In a photo where searchers remove tent in general almost naked slopes are visible.
From a place where there was a tent and to a cedar we always went without skis. And we did not fail. The measured depth of snow was from 40 … 50 sm (1,5 … 2 foots) to 70 … 90 sm (2 … 3 foots). These of 3 foots were very much in small quantity of places. In rav4 the thickness of snow was no more than 3 foots and snow was very friable. Further this place snow started to increase depth sharply. Probably snowfalls are late trees in wood more, than it occurs, when wood is not present.
Judging by aerodynamics of a place and snow adjournment under the classic theory all and should be. And it is a situation same as it and should be in 1959. Especially it is such as it should be taking into account small quantity of snow on this place. Increases in a thickness of snow which we observed makes approximately 10 … 15 sm (4 … 6 in) at week and no more than 30. 40 sm (12 … 16 in) at month. That is from January to May it should be approximately 1,6 … 1,8 m (5 … 6 foots). Taking into account accumulation in ravines it can be approximately 40 … 50 % more. If to look at that is written in case files that all coincides with certain accuracy.
On our supervision there is snow considerable quantity drops out snowfall on valleys of rivers, and smaller quantity to top (woodless) zone.
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Yes Vladimir and it was a fine written explanation indeed! I hadn't really considered the existence of mechanical erosion of the soft tissues within running water. Coupled with the fact that the tissue itself was dead and actively decomposing in chemical terms.
As far as I understand, in real is the complex of the reasons always takes place. Very seldom is when the reason is one. My supervision during searches of travellers when I studied at university (and mute after) have given the chance to me understand that has occurred to bodies in a stream. I had almost similar a case in highland Sayan mountains 40 + years back.
I have article (in Russian) where traumas of participants Dyatlov group are in detail disassembled. In the same place there are also instructions on possible places where they could be received easily.
If who that could make primary transfer of this article, it could explain many such questions. In English I could make definitive editing of article itself, but completely make all work at me there is no possibility and time.
Article is big, approximately 25 pages. It is a lot of photos and schemes. Text information there are approximately 8 … 9 pages by font #11.
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I won't even read these Russian links anymore... Its literally the source of why the case is fubared to begin with.
For the good use it is necessary to read references in any language. If it to do probably. Especially if it is event source language. But, as all to read not probably then it is necessary at first will make sure of advantage of such reading. That is to check up reliability. It is what not do unnecessary work.
Or I in what that am wrong in my writing.
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I won't even read these Russian links anymore... Its literally the source of why the case is fubared to begin with.
Google Translate is pretty good. Maybe the problem is just too many words. Maybe its best to keep words minimal. But obviously this Dyatlov Mystery excites the mind.
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На фотографии, снятой через месяц после происшествия видны место настила и тел:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=56231
На месте настила ручей заметён снегом полностью, вровень с берегами. Это 4 метра снега.
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Свидетельство поисковика Атманаки об очень глубоком снеге в овраге около кедра всего через месяц после происшествия, 2 марта 1959 г.:
Одновременно с этим группа из пяти человек развернула поиски внизу в районе кедра. Был прощупан участок в 50 м. за кедром, обследовать идущий там овраг не стали, т.к. имеющиеся в наличии щупы не позволяли проверить всю глубину снега, достигающую в этих местах 4-5 метров.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/dopros-svidetela-atmanaki
А до происшествия снег в овраг наметало на протяжении трёх месяцев - ноябрь, декабрь, январь.
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Yes Vladimir and it was a fine written explanation indeed! I hadn't really considered the existence of mechanical erosion of the soft tissues within running water. Coupled with the fact that the tissue itself was dead and actively decomposing in chemical terms.
As far as I understand, in real is the complex of the reasons always takes place. Very seldom is when the reason is one. My supervision during searches of travellers when I studied at university (and mute after) have given the chance to me understand that has occurred to bodies in a stream. I had almost similar a case in highland Sayan mountains 40 + years back.
I have article (in Russian) where traumas of participants Dyatlov group are in detail disassembled. In the same place there are also instructions on possible places where they could be received easily.
If who that could make primary transfer of this article, it could explain many such questions. In English I could make definitive editing of article itself, but completely make all work at me there is no possibility and time.
Article is big, approximately 25 pages. It is a lot of photos and schemes. Text information there are approximately 8 … 9 pages by font #11.
WAB. Would it be possible to see the full RUSSIAN article ?
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The following is taken from the Russian Tours Company and the web site link is below ;
http://russiantours.online/
Lyudmila received the most terrible wounds from all the members of the deceased group. Attempts to explain the absence of the eyes, tongue and mouth diaphragm by the action of the water flow in the stream, supposedly "washed" these organs, can not be considered satisfactory.
The effect of water on the body is well known and described in detail many decades ago - water exfoliates the epidermis, destroys the lungs (by the way, according to the degree of safety of the lungs, the forensic expert Revived and determined the duration of the last four dead in the water for 15 days), but does not destroy the eyes and language.
And even more so the water is not capable of "washing" two dense, smooth, symmetrically arranged and complex muscles mylohyoideus, forming the so-called. diaphragm of the mouth. If water really would be capable of destroying so destructively the human flesh, then first of all it would be manifested in the "washing out" of the auricles - they are the worst attached to the body. However, all four "dyatlovtsev" found in the stream, ears, as we know, remained in their places. And there does not exist in nature any "washing away" of the water flow of human organs or parts of the body - forensic medicine such a phenomenon is unknown. The very absurd euphemism "washing out the language" was invented by the multi-wise "researchers" of the tragedy of the group Dyatlov in attempts to invent a non-criminal explanation for the monstrous bodily injuries of Lyudmila Dubinina. For, I repeat, there is no concept of "flushing out the language" in either domestic or foreign forensic medicine.The forensic report does not in any way describe the damage to Ludmila's mouth, although the expert had to understand what kind of impact led to the removal of the language. Most likely, the Vozrozdennyi saw something that could not be categorically included in the official document, that is, the expert himself understood that trusting what he saw was destroying the entire official picture of the investigation, which on May 9, 1959, was already safely and uncontrollably tending to a cessation . But in the protocol of the Renaissance there is still an indirect indication of the forcible removal of the tongue and the diaphragm of the mouth, although it does not strike the eye with a superficial reading of the document. The expert left the following records in his signed protocol: "When probing the neck, the unusual mobility of the horns of the hyoid bone and the thyroid cartilage is determined. (...) The horns of the hyoid bone of unusual mobility - XXXXXXX (hereinafter the clipped word of 7 letters, in the sense of the sentence, it was the word" BROKEN " "), Soft tissue adjacent to the hyoid bone of a dirty gray color. Diaphragm of mouth and tongue absent. The upper edge of the hyoid bone is exposed. "The horn of the hyoid bone, which roughly approximates the shape of the letter W, easily breaks when it strikes the neck sideways in a slightly upward direction. Even without damaging the vertebrae, this stroke is considered fatal (or potentially fatal) because it provokes rapid and severe edema, narrowing the lumen of the respiratory throat and leading to death from suffocation within 10-30 minutes. But to the hyoid bone are attached two muscles of mylohyoideus, forming the diaphragm of the mouth. And the same damage to the W-shaped bone can be caused not by impact from the side and from the bottom up, but by a jerk of the tongue upwards, in which the muscles of the diaphragm transfer the force to the thin horns. Here, the analogy with the usual children's slingshot, well known to all boys, is appropriate: the muscles of the diaphragm can be likened to a stretchable rubber band, and the hyoid bone to the very Y-shaped rod, to which this elastic band is attached. But this analogy is lame in that, unlike a real slingshot, in our case the muscle is stronger than a thin, fragile bone, which in addition has a complex shape. And if the force effect was able to break the muscle, then it will break the bone the more.
With some degree of probability, it can be asserted that Ludmila Dubinina's tongue was torn from her mouth, which resulted in the breaking of the horns of the hyoid bone.
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I won't even read these Russian links anymore... Its literally the source of why the case is fubared to begin with.
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Google Translate is pretty good.
Any translator gives words, instead of thoughts. Always there is a sense which is lost for wrong (not precisely) translated text. Especially it concerns from Russian. There it is a lot of shades in sense which it is necessary to translate very adequately and it is structured. Otherwise it is possible to lose all basis.
In my opinion Google (as any automated translator) well translates words, and for correct understanding the expert in that section of knowledge about which there is a conversation is necessary.
Maybe the problem is just too many words. Maybe its best to keep words minimal.
Yes. You it have noticed all absolutely correctly. However those references which here offered had more words, than sense. The basis in the form of practice and supervision on a place, instead of simple imaginations is necessary. As spoke classics of philosophy: «Practice - is criterion of true» (с).
But obviously this Dyatlov Mystery excites the mind.
Exactly. The best illustration of it is that this case is discussed at many forums in the USA, Germany, Czechia, Poland … is possible even in China and other countries of Asia but as I do not know foreign languages which are written by hieroglyphs, I cannot tell about it.
At this forum there is a person who writes from China, it is very interesting. There can be it could tell, whether there are such forums and sites in the Chinese segment of the Internet?
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На фотографии, снятой через месяц после происшествия видны место настила и тел:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=56231
На месте настила ручей заметён снегом полностью, вровень с берегами. Это 4 метра снега.
It is not necessary to result words which do not represent the facts. There are no anywhere 4 metres of snow. If the reference to »it is is resulted« faster a false argument, than the proof. In business sheet it is told: «… the flooring on depth from 3 - to 2,5 metres is found out.» (с). And if to look at a photo where at the bottom раскопа there is searcher Suvorov (https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-the-den-01.jpg ) the avalanche probe there is visible. It consists of three links on 60 sm in everyone. Besides to the top edge of snow remains about one link (+ 60 sm). Total its height turns out 2 metres 40 It see that depth which greatest possible on this place.
At photo (which it is removed in one month - https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Dyatlov-pass-1959-search-310.jpg ) it is impossible to consider those details about which here speak. It can be decorated by any inscriptions but if information are not present, it cannot arise from anything. Here it is not necessary to persuade in something readers, it is necessary or to result trustworthy information and its source, or to prove the words personal practice in that place during the same season.
By the way to speak about «a place of a flooring and bodies» it will be possible only when it skilled will be proved. For now goes only unreasonable уговаривание beginners those who tries to give out wished for the valid. Because many parametres and place signs in photos 1959 do not converge with the objective data of district.
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Свидетельство поисковика Атманаки об очень глубоком снеге в овраге около кедра всего через месяц после происшествия, 2 марта 1959 г.:
Одновременно с этим группа из пяти человек развернула поиски внизу в районе кедра. Был прощупан участок в 50 м. за кедром, обследовать идущий там овраг не стали, т.к. имеющиеся в наличии щупы не позволяли проверить всю глубину снега, достигающую в этих местах 4-5 метров.
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/dopros-svidetela-atmanaki
А до происшествия снег в овраг наметало на протяжении трёх месяцев - ноябрь, декабрь, январь.
It too is very superficial and thoughtless opinion.
The first. Athmanaky has been interrogated in April. That is in 2 months after it was on this place. Means there is an occurrence high probability of "the noise information». It is such term when to the valid information it is mixed or the extraneous information is added. It does not become specially, this is consequence of information entropy.
The second. Depth of snow in 4 … 5 metres (12 … 15 foots) is in these parts impossible by definition. I do not know whence Atmanaki took this information, it is possible there is a consequence from the paragraph "First".
It is a question of a stream which is behind a cedar in 50 m (actually there 42 metres to a coast edge - I measured it by a laser range finder in the summer 2009 and in the winter 2014). Depth of a ravine of this stream in that place makes 3 … 4,5 metres, and even in the most snow winters, it never happens is filled up by snow completely. Pictures of this place in the winter 2013, 2014 and 2015 I now cannot result, because they are not present at me in access, but in the end of October, I can result them. If it there will be a necessity.
Therefore such thickness of snow there cannot be basically. For this purpose the channel of this stream should contain a snow hillock that is impossible in the nature.
The third. Is conducting from searcher Karelin that snow at this time was very little, therefore it is impossible to refer only to that information which it is favourable to you. Besides, in pictures on which there is an analysis of things from tent, it is unequivocally visible that snow on a slope almost that is not present.
Snow adjournment for the last 3 months does not happen big. In November and at the very beginning of December thaw sometimes comes, therefore snow is condensed and settles. Besides, the statistics of adjournment of snow in this area is that that its this share for December and January is much less than that drops out in March and April.
Therefore it is impossible to prove quantity of snow in a place where have found 4 in February 1959, other place and other time.
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WAB. Would it be possible to see the full RUSSIAN article ?
It is certainly possible. Here is the reference to it in Russian: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ey2F7ROB6ZXNJkp49tKPJE24iPP0nKRG
Besides, it has been printed in the book “the Almanac about Dyatlov group. Volume № 2" Researches and materials. " Published by "Fund of memory Dyatlov group “ in 2017.
I very much would want, what who that has read this article and has expressed opinion that all of them materials should be left in the text for the English-speaking reader and that it is possible not to leave.
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The following is taken from the Russian Tours Company and the web site link is below ;
http://russiantours.online/
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Here please, you can receive a typical example of gamble on this theme and exclusively superficial approach to the information.
1.Examples of this phenomenon are not known exclusively to the one who about it writes. At least because similar cases with travellers very rare and the statistics cannot collect. It is enough to me to ask that "expert" who wrote it: «how many time he saw the similar phenomena?» I will not be surprised, if I receive the negative answer in 100 % a case. Similar cases (destruction of soft fabrics of the defrozen bodies in water) for the past of 60 years was literally from one to … a maximum of five. I do not know, where this "writer" took statistics but as there is no at least one example with the statement that the such cannot be in practice, means, this statistics at it in general is not present. I have resulted 2 cases from the practice with similar consequences.
2.In this note author no speaks that all complex of the reasons (water, a stream pressure, oxygen, microflora and microfauna is not mentioned is very brightly expressed), and author speaks only about water as one. And it is the same as the statement that the executor of tricks at cinema has jumped about 5 floors of a building and has not broken though it is not mentioned that below there was crusher ( the device for absorption energy of movement).
3.The Most important thing and the core that it has not been resulted in a note, that all it occurred to the defrozen body. Such bodies even it is simple on air decay very quickly. And if they in water and under the influence of those factors that I have resulted, process should go very quickly. Two or three weeks it are very big term.
As the resume I can tell that similar non qualified articles, it simply attempt to clean stirring the facts. For the statement as authority or advancement of the ideas. Especially it becomes clear when the author constantly repeats «a criminal explanation» though no facts or even signs of it are present. But they can be thought up, as is occurs.
There even there is an attempt to attribute to Boris Vozrozhenny malfeasance structure so he that there has not written that specially. And the statement that it is made for this purpose, «what quickly close case», anything except laughter cannot cause. Under the law, this preliminary investigation could not proceed more than 2 months and its prolongation still a maximum for 1 month was possible. That is it for any reason should be closed not later than May, 28th. As results of criminal actions it was not revealed. But these try to find «criminal actions» already through 50 + years. If to tell easier them do not find out, and think out. Because any the actual information in this time has not appeared. But many consider that they «it is cleverer than Sherlock Holmes» and all of them see that others could not then to see. And without complicating itself revealing of the facts, and thinking out "quasifacts".
That the similar note has appeared not in section of medicolegal experts is interesting, and there where travellers write and there are conversations about Dyatlov pass.
Most likely, it was written by the person who poorly understands this process, and has simply picked at random citations from the Internet.
I saw many such notes. About murder by aliens from UFO, about murder by the Yeti and still everybody … But what by all to do when there is no any facts about any types of "murder"?
If as murder to consider all that the author cannot explain or present what we will imagine such revelry of criminality all over the world that nobody should survive, even is worse than at nuclear war … J
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Свидетельство поисковика Сахнина об очень глубоком снеге в ручье в середине марта 1959 г.:
Вот так мы проваливались с Абрамом Константиновичем! Вот так! Нас страховали ребята за деревья рядом мы… по горло и мы не доходили до земли…
Да, мы смотрели этот сугроб и мы… не за что не зацепились там. Мы его ногами протопали, вот так, вертикально! И ни за что не зацепились. Это означает, что значительно глубже... В общем много там чего (снегу) было. Дойти до твёрдого наста вот так, вертикально мы не сумели. Мы погружались по самую шею.
...Очень очень глубокий снег был.
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=75065
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Deleted.
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WAB. Would it be possible to see the full RUSSIAN article ?
It is certainly possible. Here is the reference to it in Russian: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ey2F7ROB6ZXNJkp49tKPJE24iPP0nKRG
Besides, it has been printed in the book “the Almanac about Dyatlov group. Volume № 2" Researches and materials. " Published by "Fund of memory Dyatlov group “ in 2017.
I very much would want, what who that has read this article and has expressed opinion that all of them materials should be left in the text for the English-speaking reader and that it is possible not to leave.
Thankyou
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The following is taken from the Russian Tours Company and the web site link is below ;
http://russiantours.online/
...........................................
Here please, you can receive a typical example of gamble on this theme and exclusively superficial approach to the information.
1.Examples of this phenomenon are not known exclusively to the one who about it writes. At least because similar cases with travellers very rare and the statistics cannot collect. It is enough to me to ask that "expert" who wrote it: «how many time he saw the similar phenomena?» I will not be surprised, if I receive the negative answer in 100 % a case. Similar cases (destruction of soft fabrics of the defrozen bodies in water) for the past of 60 years was literally from one to … a maximum of five. I do not know, where this "writer" took statistics but as there is no at least one example with the statement that the such cannot be in practice, means, this statistics at it in general is not present. I have resulted 2 cases from the practice with similar consequences.
2.In this note author no speaks that all complex of the reasons (water, a stream pressure, oxygen, microflora and microfauna is not mentioned is very brightly expressed), and author speaks only about water as one. And it is the same as the statement that the executor of tricks at cinema has jumped about 5 floors of a building and has not broken though it is not mentioned that below there was crusher ( the device for absorption energy of movement).
3.The Most important thing and the core that it has not been resulted in a note, that all it occurred to the defrozen body. Such bodies even it is simple on air decay very quickly. And if they in water and under the influence of those factors that I have resulted, process should go very quickly. Two or three weeks it are very big term.
As the resume I can tell that similar non qualified articles, it simply attempt to clean stirring the facts. For the statement as authority or advancement of the ideas. Especially it becomes clear when the author constantly repeats «a criminal explanation» though no facts or even signs of it are present. But they can be thought up, as is occurs.
There even there is an attempt to attribute to Boris Vozrozhenny malfeasance structure so he that there has not written that specially. And the statement that it is made for this purpose, «what quickly close case», anything except laughter cannot cause. Under the law, this preliminary investigation could not proceed more than 2 months and its prolongation still a maximum for 1 month was possible. That is it for any reason should be closed not later than May, 28th. As results of criminal actions it was not revealed. But these try to find «criminal actions» already through 50 + years. If to tell easier them do not find out, and think out. Because any the actual information in this time has not appeared. But many consider that they «it is cleverer than Sherlock Holmes» and all of them see that others could not then to see. And without complicating itself revealing of the facts, and thinking out "quasifacts".
That the similar note has appeared not in section of medicolegal experts is interesting, and there where travellers write and there are conversations about Dyatlov pass.
Most likely, it was written by the person who poorly understands this process, and has simply picked at random citations from the Internet.
I saw many such notes. About murder by aliens from UFO, about murder by the Yeti and still everybody … But what by all to do when there is no any facts about any types of "murder"?
If as murder to consider all that the author cannot explain or present what we will imagine such revelry of criminality all over the world that nobody should survive, even is worse than at nuclear war … J
The article taken from the Russian Tours Company website is debatable. I included it because we need to know what people are thinking about what happened to the Dyatov Group. We cant prove it one way or the other because we are lacking EVIDENCE, if we had EVIDENCE then that would be a different matter. But at least we are generating interest and thats important.
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Lets try to stay on the topic discussion, in this case being the missing tongue.
Also, I understand English is not everyone's native language, but if you want/expect members of this discussion forum to read or consider what you post.... please translate it prior to posting. We simply cannot have multiple languages posted with the burden of translation transferred to the reader.
Игорь Б, if you do not bother to translate this post and understand (this means you), and continue to post untranslated text, I will be forced to treat said posts as spam. When I post on a Russian forum, I translate it prior to posting as as you need to do here.
WAB.... thanks for all your input, we appreciate your expertise and experience on this subject and I enjoy reading your posts.
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Свидетельство поисковика Сахнина об очень глубоком снеге в ручье в середине марта 1959 г.:
Вот так мы проваливались с Абрамом Константиновичем! Вот так! Нас страховали ребята за деревья рядом мы… по горло и мы не доходили до земли…
Да, мы смотрели этот сугроб и мы… не за что не зацепились там. Мы его ногами протопали, вот так, вертикально! И ни за что не зацепились. Это означает, что значительно глубже... В общем много там чего (снегу) было. Дойти до твёрдого наста вот так, вертикально мы не сумели. Мы погружались по самую шею.
...Очень очень глубокий снег был.
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=75065
Sakhnin anywhere does not tell in what no matter where concrete place it occurred. Even if to pass further a mouth of 1 right stream 4 inflows on 20 … 30 metres [60...100 ft] (or to depart to the left on 50 … 100 metres [150...300 ft] , and behind a height on the left inflow, it is even more deep), there depth of snow sharply increased. On a site dyatlovpass.com there is a scheme where the approximate border of deep snow is designated. There also many search works were spent. Because on a channel the most 4 inflows snow allowed to go absolutely freely. It is well visible in many photos of searches. I am assured that you well know them. Therefore I do not understand your persistence with attempts to prove that in a stream was too much snow that there it would be possible that or to dig, and furthermore to fall.
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The article taken from the Russian Tours Company website is debatable. I included it because we need to know what people are thinking about what happened to the Dyatov Group. We cant prove it one way or the other because we are lacking EVIDENCE, if we had EVIDENCE then that would be a different matter. But at least we are generating interest and thats important.
To me it is not important where it has been written. Especially if it not scientific magazine, and is simple conversations of people on abstract themes.
All knowledge shares on useful and what distract from the useful. Just as the information shares on true and "noise". "The Second" information is that that distracts from the basic subject of studying. If all to dump in one heap so we never will find out that us interests. It is necessary to be engaged in the analysis of the entering information. And to eliminate that which is "noise". Only then it will be possible to receive useful result.
If no need the result but only conversation process I do not agree to it, and I will not support dialogue and further is necessary not do.
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Lets try to stay on the topic discussion, in this case being the missing tongue.
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WAB.... thanks for all your input, we appreciate your expertise and experience on this subject and I enjoy reading your posts.
LC, I thank you for so flatter estimation for me. If I can make that useful for your site I try make it. How there is to me it probably.
You are right that in the given theme it is offtop, therefore please transfer my messages there where consider it is necessary. If they are necessary. If they have no advantage, you can annihilate them.
PS. LC, with your permission I will answer opponents in this theme last time, and then I will write there where you specify.
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The article taken from the Russian Tours Company website is debatable. I included it because we need to know what people are thinking about what happened to the Dyatov Group. We cant prove it one way or the other because we are lacking EVIDENCE, if we had EVIDENCE then that would be a different matter. But at least we are generating interest and thats important.
To me it is not important where it has been written. Especially if it not scientific magazine, and is simple conversations of people on abstract themes.
All knowledge shares on useful and what distract from the useful. Just as the information shares on true and "noise". "The Second" information is that that distracts from the basic subject of studying. If all to dump in one heap so we never will find out that us interests. It is necessary to be engaged in the analysis of the entering information. And to eliminate that which is "noise". Only then it will be possible to receive useful result.
If no need the result but only conversation process I do not agree to it, and I will not support dialogue and further is necessary not do.
WAB, I posted the article from The Russian Tours Company website, which is in English, because I thought it was a good article on the missing tongue. Even if it is speculation, we simply dont have a mass of evidence to help us. I suppose its ok so long as we dont overspeculate.
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WAB. You are not a problem. The off topic was and has been initiated by a different member. Replying to an off topic post is not the issue. thumb1
I won't be moving anything, I'm just warning members who simply post links with russian text to websites having nothing to do with the thread topic.
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I dont think, that the rav4 bodies were found in a very natural position as well. Anyway, we can presume, that the position of Kolevatov and Zolotoryov kinda makes sense (trying to warm each other). Nikolai was some 30cm downstream (probably been closer to the other two, but separated (naturally or not) at some point. Although, if they died together, or one after another in a reasonably short period of time, given the fact that they were very cold already and that bodies get stiff after death, it is strange, but anyway.
Dubinina is in the most awklard position. Probably her body was as well closer to the guys, but slipped away downstream to the position in which she was found. Her arms are pointing upwards, she is on her knees. Looks to me, as her body literally slipped, postmortem or in the best case she was nearly dead, with no strenght to move at all. According to the autopsy, everyone from the rav4 died as a result of "act of violence". I am wondering, what is the chance that they were murdered, or at least severely beaten, then left to die, and afterwards their bodies were just thrown on one another, piled up? Than it was a matter of exposure and nature for the decaying process.
As for the missing tongue, it is very odd, that in the autopsy report it is just mentioned as "absent". ("The tongue in the oral cavity is absent. The diaphragm of the mouth and tongue is absent.") She was in a strange possition, mouth open, therefore snow and melted water running through and generally a lot more exposed to elements than the others in the rav, but still strange to entirely lose the tongue, as it was never been there in the first place. In warmer conditions would make more sense, but with all the snow and freezing cold water... Or, the autopsy report is just presented in a clumsy way.
I dont know why, I keep recalling the Donnie Eichar`s Dead mountain, where he is describing the character of Liuda, and he mentions that it is known that sometimes when irritated, she would show untamed tongue behaviour, IIRC. If true, what a sad irony.
I agree with you, her body was probably as well closer to the guys, but slipped away downstream (if 3D model of the ravine by Vasilii Zyadik is correct). It seems as three of them were deadly injured and and the last survivor felt that he is tired and dying and lying down to them not to be alone and warm a little bit. I'm very sorry for them, it must have been terrible.
It is possible the tongue was destroyed by water and microorganisms. But I have doubt if in such a frozen condition and within such a short time (3 months) the tongue could be decomposed by microorganisms! (I study microbiology at the university), it is not Nevada desert. And the water was frozen, and it had just de-frost to liquid state a short time before bodies finding. And not only tongue was missing but all oral cavity. So perhaps what caused the internal injury (e.g.some air explosion, wave) damaged Dubinia´s whole mouth because it could have been just opened at that time. The same happened with her and Zolotarev eyes.
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I think it is highly unlikely that a TONGUE and EYES were lost as a result of some AIR BLAST / WAVE ! ? It would need to be one hell of a powerful BLAST and you would then expect other signs like DECAPITATION.
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I think it is highly unlikely that a TONGUE and EYES were lost as a result of some AIR BLAST / WAVE ! ? It would need to be one hell of a powerful BLAST and you would then expect other signs like DECAPITATION.
I'm not saying it was the wave of the explosion. It could be some other phenomenon we don´t know well. I just wanted to say that tongue decomposition with microorganisms in such an environment and time period three months or with water below zero degree is unlikely.
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Face down in running water. Dont forget that part.
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Face down in running water. Dont forget that part.
Hello,
That's possible, but the question is how long? The body of Dubinia with small creek was covered under 4 m of snow and the outside temperature was deep below zero minimally whole February and March, maybe even longer (April). Was the water in a frozen state and thus not flooding? And if so, when did it was de-frost before finding the body? And the next fact to consider is that if the 3D model of the ravine (by Vasilii Zyadik) is correct, and the body of Dubinia with the melting of the snow in May shifted off the other bodies, the face was soaked in the water only briefly.
It is really very difficult to imagine in the mind how it could go all the way. We would need a clairvoyant/medium. wink1
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I would imagine a few weeks..... I wouldn't leave my steaks out on the counter for that long. Would you?
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Back to the rotting TONGUE theory. Still doesnt explain the autopsy mention of unusual movement of the HYOID BONE, etc.
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But we shouldn't forget that she had probably been lying in snow and water since February. With open mouth. In April / May the thaw sets in. Who knows which animals are on the river or in the river?
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But we shouldn't forget that she had probably been lying in snow and water since February. With open mouth. In April / May the thaw sets in. Who knows which animals are on the river or in the river?
Well if the Autopsies had have been carried out properly we would have been told of any animals or insects or whatever. Instead we were given a very vague answer.
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There was controversy in the UK after a recent ban on shooting crows, who attack lambs, going for the eyes and tongue. Apparently they do the same with piglets. And of course crows pecked out the eyes of the dead during the plague. They are said to exist all over the world, apart from Antarctica.
Because Lyuda died with her mouth open, and her body was discovered leaning against a large rock, this may have provided a landing spot for a crow or other carrion before the bodies were covered with snow, and afterwards the air pocket at water level would allow decomposition, with the varying flow of water directly into her mouth flushing away the remains of the tongue and other tissues.
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Thank you WAB, You always bring logic and knowledge back to the conversation. I wasn't aware that freshly melted ice carries more oxygen in it. That is new information for me. I also want to say that after living in Alaska for years most people are aware of "ice worms" that live in the glaciers and tightly frozen ice, among all the different bacteria and possible viruses.
(http://Ice worms on Columbia Glacier)
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There was controversy in the UK after a recent ban on shooting crows, who attack lambs, going for the eyes and tongue. Apparently they do the same with piglets. And of course crows pecked out the eyes of the dead during the plague. They are said to exist all over the world, apart from Antarctica.
Because Lyuda died with her mouth open, and her body was discovered leaning against a large rock, this may have provided a landing spot for a crow or other carrion before the bodies were covered with snow, and afterwards the air pocket at water level would allow decomposition, with the varying flow of water directly into her mouth flushing away the remains of the tongue and other tissues.
Crows also migrate. So in a typical Siberian Winter I would have thought that it would be unlikely that Crows would hang around some exposed Mountainside. Also I find it hard to believe that Crows could have caused the damage that was done to Dubinina.
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Missing tongue, huh? Eaten by rodents? Where were the teeth marks? Any teeth marks found on any of the victims? I do not recall reading of such. Perhaps it simply rotted due to running water and time? But...As one author stated, "Tissue cannot rot selectively ". Mysterious, isn't it?
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A good theory i've heard recently is that as the spring meltwaters increased in energy there would be thawing around the bodies. So if the force of the water was pushing against a body now loose in the flow but parts of the face were still attached to the ice then this could force a separation leaving tissue in the ice.
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A good theory i've heard recently is that as the spring meltwaters increased in energy there would be thawing around the bodies. So if the force of the water was pushing against a body now loose in the flow but parts of the face were still attached to the ice then this could force a separation leaving tissue in the ice.
Yeah there is some evidence to support that theory by looking at the photos of Dubinina. Doesnt explain the other extraordinary bodily injuries.
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Dubinina Official Autopsy Report
''The inner surface of the aortic smooth and clean. Light from the surface sinyushnokrasnogo color fluffy to the touch. In the context of lung tissue dark red color when pressed with the cut surface liberally dripping bloody foamy fluid lumen of the bronchi free. The horns of the hyoid bone XXXXXXXX unusual mobility, soft tissue adjacent to the hyoid bone gryaznoserogo color. Aperture mouth and tongue missing. The upper edge of the hyoid bone is exposed. The mucous membrane of the esophagus, trachea bronchi sinyushnokrasnovatogo color. The injuries of the head area of the soft tissue and "skin bath 'limbs are posthumous changes (decay and decomposition) Dubinina corpse, which was recently before finding water.''
Note ; It doesnt state if all the 4 horns of the hyoid bone were subject to unusual mobility. Also what is the XXXXXXXX ! ?
xxxx was broken
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(https://i.ibb.co/WHGQM7L/i-077.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease- xxxx ( are broken),
The dash in the sentence is also an indication
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(https://i.ibb.co/WHGQM7L/i-077.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease- xxxx ( are broken),
The dash in the sentence is also an indication
Apparently one of the toughest bones in the Human body. And there is vagueness in the Autopsy Report on the Missing Tongue.
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(https://i.ibb.co/WHGQM7L/i-077.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease- xxxx ( are broken),
The dash in the sentence is also an indication
Apparently one of the toughest bones in the Human body. And there is vagueness in the Autopsy Report on the Missing Tongue.
It seems he knew and got scared, something he has never seen before. I saw the photos of course and they look just like those animal mutilation victims.
Also, the word СЛОМАНЫ fits the XXX, and it has a dash "СЛО"-top line and "МАНЫ" bottom line. He is talking about the horns in the hyoid bone (thus plural ending Ы) broken horns.
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(https://i.ibb.co/WHGQM7L/i-077.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease- xxxx ( are broken),
The dash in the sentence is also an indication
Apparently one of the toughest bones in the Human body. And there is vagueness in the Autopsy Report on the Missing Tongue.
It seems he knew and got scared, something he has never seen before. I saw the photos of course and they look just like those animal mutilation victims.
Also, the word СЛОМАНЫ fits the XXX, and it has a dash "СЛО"-top line and "МАНЫ" bottom line. He is talking about the horns in the hyoid bone (thus plural ending Ы) broken horns.
Well I have been posting stuff for sometime re Animal Mutilations. There are similarities between some of the injuries and such Mutilations.
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(https://i.ibb.co/WHGQM7L/i-077.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease- xxxx ( are broken),
The dash in the sentence is also an indication
Apparently one of the toughest bones in the Human body. And there is vagueness in the Autopsy Report on the Missing Tongue.
It seems he knew and got scared, something he has never seen before. I saw the photos of course and they look just like those animal mutilation victims.
Also, the word СЛОМАНЫ fits the XXX, and it has a dash "СЛО"-top line and "МАНЫ" bottom line. He is talking about the horns in the hyoid bone (thus plural ending Ы) broken horns.
Well I have been posting stuff for sometime re Animal Mutilations. There are similarities between some of the injuries and such Mutilations.
I am with you on that. Only the first chapter (leaving the test suddenly) is hard to explain using this paranormal theory.
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(https://i.ibb.co/WHGQM7L/i-077.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
it says " the bones are unusually moving with ease- xxxx ( are broken),
The dash in the sentence is also an indication
Apparently one of the toughest bones in the Human body. And there is vagueness in the Autopsy Report on the Missing Tongue.
It seems he knew and got scared, something he has never seen before. I saw the photos of course and they look just like those animal mutilation victims.
Also, the word СЛОМАНЫ fits the XXX, and it has a dash "СЛО"-top line and "МАНЫ" bottom line. He is talking about the horns in the hyoid bone (thus plural ending Ы) broken horns.
Well I have been posting stuff for sometime re Animal Mutilations. There are similarities between some of the injuries and such Mutilations.
I am with you on that. Only the first chapter (leaving the test suddenly) is hard to explain using this paranormal theory.
The Event at the Tent appears to be the starting point for this Dyatlov Mystery. But As I have also mentioned many times, why did they pitch the Tent in such an exposed position.
Could it be because they were scared of something that had been following them, and they thought that being on the Mountain side was safer than down in the Forest ! ? But then of course something happened that sent them down to the Forest again. Could that be related to the previous scare ! ? And whatever it was that was scaring them hadnt finished yet because now the Dyatlov Group are at the Cedar Tree for another Event. And then the final Event at the Ravine, or so it seems. One scare after another. And something not mentioned much is the look of horror on at least one of the Dyatlov Groups faces. A look of sheer horror frozen in time.
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Not to lose the elevation? To have another challenge as sleeping without the fire?
Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.
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Not to lose the elevation? To have another challenge as sleeping without the fire?
Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.
The Challenge theory has been mooted before regarding the final site of the Tent. But the weather was already very bad so why take extra risk in an exposed position.
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Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.
No the forest would have been within easy reach. Everything points to pitching the tent on the ridge as a deliberate choice made the evening before as recorded in the diary by Igor.
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Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.
No the forest would have been within easy reach. Everything points to pitching the tent on the ridge as a deliberate choice made the evening before as recorded in the diary by Igor.
Yes deliberate. I meant the exact location. If there was still daylight they might as well pitch it higher up or over the summit, on their way to the peak (was it 20 miles away?).
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Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.
No the forest would have been within easy reach. Everything points to pitching the tent on the ridge as a deliberate choice made the evening before as recorded in the diary by Igor.
Yes deliberate. I meant the exact location. If there was still daylight they might as well pitch it higher up or over the summit, on their way to the peak (was it 20 miles away?).
There's a good case for that location if you want to the view the whole arc of the hill back to dyatlov pass and still stay out of the worst of the wind.
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Pitching this tent was ther consequnce of sleeping late that day and wasting time on setting up the storage/ labaz.
No the forest would have been within easy reach. Everything points to pitching the tent on the ridge as a deliberate choice made the evening before as recorded in the diary by Igor.
Yes deliberate. I meant the exact location. If there was still daylight they might as well pitch it higher up or over the summit, on their way to the peak (was it 20 miles away?).
There's a good case for that location if you want to the view the whole arc of the hill back to dyatlov pass and still stay out of the worst of the wind.
Why would they need to view it? Were they followed? Why not a thing about it in the diaries?
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Missing tongue, huh? Eaten by rodents? Where were the teeth marks? Any teeth marks found on any of the victims? I do not recall reading of such. Perhaps it simply rotted due to running water and time? But...As one author stated, "Tissue cannot rot selectively ". Mysterious, isn't it?
Nothing was simply rotten.
(https://i.ibb.co/Wpc7SSv/Mute1a.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
img upload (https://imgbb.com/)
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(https://i.ibb.co/nzKfkG7/Mila1d.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Why would they need to view it? Were they followed? Why not a thing about it in the diaries?
To photograph the lights. I'm with Ivanov that it was the fireorbs, imo they planned to photograph them and #34 was taken from inside the tent through the vent for the stove.
The decision to camp on the ridge is in the group diary
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Missing tongue, huh? Eaten by rodents? Where were the teeth marks? Any teeth marks found on any of the victims? I do not recall reading of such. Perhaps it simply rotted due to running water and time? But...As one author stated, "Tissue cannot rot selectively ". Mysterious, isn't it?
Nothing was simply rotten.
(https://i.ibb.co/Wpc7SSv/Mute1a.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
img upload (https://imgbb.com/)
They look like the so called Cattle Mutilations that occur around the World.
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I cant comprehend the purpose of quoting the whole post when responding, is there a way to respond without quotes?
The whole story makes me sleep with the lights on sometimes.
There were never a group mutilations though, only single victims, maybe someone can prove me wrong.
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I cant comprehend the purpose of quoting the whole post when responding, is there a way to respond without quotes?
The whole story makes me sleep with the lights on sometimes.
There were never a group mutilations though, only single victims, maybe someone can prove me wrong.
Not all the Dyatlov Group were Mutilated, if indeed it was Mutilation. Only one or two and that would be consistent with Mutilations Worldwide. Cattle are lifted into the air and Mutilated and then dropped down somewhere.