Theories Discussion > General Discussion
Lev was correct, The tent is the answer.
Nigel Evans:
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on March 07, 2020, 03:04:35 AM ---
--- Quote from: Tim on February 10, 2020, 04:16:55 AM ---For 40,000 years man has used animal skins to canvas and modern light weight materials to shelter under. In all the world Wars combined there has never been a tent found where it has been cut from the inside. It is a mechanism built into the human DNA not to do what The Dyatlov group had to do unless an of emergency. So what was so urgent? .
--- End quote ---
It is not proven that the tent was cut from the inside. No proper scientific examination of the tent was ever made.
--- End quote ---
Incorrect, the tent was examined by the Ministry of Justice's Scientific-Research Forensic Laboratory at Sverdlovsk.
sarapuk:
It is not proven that the tent was cut from the inside. No proper scientific examination of the tent was ever made.
[/quote]
Incorrect, the tent was examined by the Ministry of Justice's Scientific-Research Forensic Laboratory at Sverdlovsk.
[/quote]
We are told that it was cut from the inside. We are told a lot of things and somethings we are not told. Which suggests to me that the Authorities had plenty to tell us that is very CRUCIAL to this Dyatlov Case, but which they havnt.
Jean Daniel Reuss:
Yes ! Leaving the tent without any evidence of firearms, stakes, daggers or swords being used is an important aspect that needs to be explained.
There was also no evidence of violent hand-to-hand combat around the tent, not a drop of blood was visible.
I am working on another hypothesis: the tent was cut off from the interior because the atmosphere inside the tent had suddenly become unbreathable and even toxic. There was an urgent need to be able to suck some fresh (albeit terribly cold) air outdoors. And then there was no other possibility than to get out completely and very quickly outside the tent...and then suffer badly dressed in the icy wind and then die.....
I apologize for not explaining myself more now but I am completely ignorant of the English language and therefore very slow to write understandable sentences (and fortunately there are still automatic translators).
I promise you that I will soon (hopefully within 3 weeks) send you a complete reconstruction in "Theories Discussion > Murdered".
It is a hypothesis that was developed under the influence of Eduard Tumanov, Per Inge Oestmoen, Noelle, Nordlander, Vietnamka...and others that are too numerous to name them all, and which has the merit of being able to answer the three guiding questions : Who ? - Why ? - How ?
Here are 3 statements of general interest
A) Case-Files Achievement Recipient sarapuk often finishes his many and very judicious interventions with an expression that mean :
There is no PROOF....Perhaps but no proof............. Or do you have any evidence to back them up....
But there are not enough indisputable documents and unless some new information or statement comes to light there will be no absolute proof.
We are therefore all forced to be content with assumptions that are questionable but more or less probable.
But this is the case in almost every cold case when there are no or no more direct witnesses who can contribute to the investigation.
We are consequently obliged to imagine the missing parts in order to arrive at a coherent and plausible reconstruction.
This is also what makes the difficulty of Ancient History that leads to reconstructions that can be revised, as we rarely find enough documents and historical sources to cross-check the information.
See :
Historical method is the collection of techniques and guidelines that historians use to research and write histories of the past. Primary sources and other evidence including ancilllary considerations and reasoning are used.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method
B) In a way our Global Moderator Loose}{Cannon is right when he writes
"All theories are flawed..."
But some theories or reconstructions are better than others.
Here better means more coherent, more likely, in good agreement with the psychological, historical background...
C) Better means also more completeFebruary 28, 2020, at Theories Discussion > General Discussion > Is this a record of Yuri K limping?
DPI Guru Nigel Evans (Reply #37) and DPI Expert WAB (Reply #40) had a conversational exchange on the subject :
For me the key thing is finding THE narrative, the one that explains ALL the evidence. Not just some of it.
It is imperative to take into account the totality of the strange aspects of the dpi which are many and different.
For me, the most important thing is to find scenarios or reconstructions that can explain ALL the available data.
Of course, in reality, it is a little more complicated because many documents are uncertain and also interpretable in different ways.
Note : I provided already a first complete and easily debatable example with my X-drug theory in 4 chapters and 24 (§).
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.0
Altercation on the pass Reply #15
MDGross:
Hi Mr. Reuss, I've read the fascinating chapters of your book. Your research on psychostimulants is extraordinary. And aren't we all searching for one coherent scenario that explains what happened the night of Feb. 1 and afterwards. Your theory explains much, but raises many questions.
• Psychostimulants were widely used in WWII. Drugs like Pervitin (a form of crystal meth) and Benzedrine are as effective today as they were then. Why waste precious resources in 1959 on drugs that already work so well?
• By 1959, large-scale wars would be fought with nuclear bombs. Tens of thousands of soldiers on psychostimulants would not be necessary.
• The autopsy reports stated that the Dyatlov group ate 6 to 8 hours before their deaths. No evidence was found in the tent that dinner had been prepared and eaten.
• Questions naturally arise about Zolotaryov since none of the hikers knew him before the expedition. Maybe he joined the group so that he could receive the highest certification as a hiker/skier. And how could he have taken photos of the drug's effect? Almost all the action took place outside the tent at night. How could he photograph that with cameras available in the Soviet Union in 1959?
• What about his last photo that seemed to show a bright flash of light (an explosion perhaps?) that also caught the attention of the three other hikers whose heads seem to be shown at the bottom of the photo?
I'm not saying your scenario couldn't have happened. Probably a dozen other theories that reconstruct the events of that tragic night are well thought out and possible. Alas, without believable, documented evidence we can only speculate. Best of luck with your book.
You may be interested to know that I contacted the CIA for information about Zolotaryov. I was told the CIA may or may not have such information, and whether it does or doesn't is classified.
Jean Daniel Reuss:
--- Quote from: MDGross on March 11, 2020, 11:10:06 AM ---Hi Mr. Reuss, I've read .............. And aren't we all searching for one coherent scenario that explains what happened the night of Feb. 1 and afterwards............ raises many questions.
Alas, without believable, documented evidence we can only speculate...............
You may be interested to know that I contacted the CIA for information about Zolotaryov. I was told the CIA may or may not have such information, and whether it does or doesn't is classified.
--- End quote ---
• Your theory explains much, but raises many questions..
The X-drug theory that I have imagined to explain the most imcompressible episode of DPI, i.e. the suicidal exit from the tent, is certainly false.
Indeed for testing and experimentation, those in charge of military psychostimulants obviously were using (and are using) the very powerful organization that was the Soviet Army (now that is the Russian Army).
They did not lack a hierarchy of officers specialized and competent in various technical fields and also many patrols of soldiers on surveillance hikes in the Arctic regions which are politically and symbolically highly important.
Thus, in 1959, it is very improbable that Soviet army laboratories improvised a test incorporating civilians (non-military Soviet citizens) through an unspecialized KGB indicator, as Zolotaryov was perhaps.
On all the other hand, I can easily answer the questions that you raise...
1) • ....Why waste precious resources in 1959 on drugs that already work so well?
...work so well? not exactly !
As soon as 1942, the dreadful and long-lasting conditions on the Eastern Front had highlighted the damaging effects of pervitin on many Wehrmacht soldiers.Vertigo, dizziness, perspiration, depression and hallucinations. Vertigo, dizziness, perspiration, depression and hallucinations. Some soldiers died of heart failure, others killed themselves during psychotic episodes.
Due to increased Allied pressure on the German war effort, Nazi Germany had grown desperate for new soldiers to continue the war effort, and one way to mitigate the massive losses was to increase the combative power of the remaining soldiers in the Wehrmacht
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-IX
Vice Admiral Hellmuth Heye in March 1944 requested a drug that could also provide the users with superhuman strength and a boosted sense of self-esteem.
Since 1945, specialised pharmacochemists in all countries have gradually resigned themselves to abandoning their hopes of finding a magic drug that would have no drawbacks.
Nowadays, in 2020, it is mainly modafinil
C15H15N O2S that is used in the armed forces to increase concentration and resistance to sleep deprivation because it presents very little risk of transient craziness
2) • By 1959, large-scale wars would be fought with nuclear bombs. Tens of thousands of soldiers on psychostimulants would not be necessary..
The multiple roles of nuclear bombs are very extensive subjects which are still studied at considerable length by the military strategists of all the great powers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_warfare
I am not competent in these matters but it seems to me that, on the contrary, nuclear bombs are militarily useless and that the determination and competence of a few elite warriors is essential.
In fact, there is the risk of mutually assured destruction and nuclear weapons have (fortunately!) proved to be unusable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fallout
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterrence_theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_terror
Deterrence is the concept of preventing an act by persuading the person contemplating it that the costs that would inevitably result from it would exceed the expected benefits.
Some political scientists even say that the USSR spent so much money on strengthening its nuclear power that the USSR collapsed in 1990.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_arms_race
This is the contradiction of nuclear armament, which is extremely expensive but has not been used in a theatre of operations since 9 August 1945.
In addition, H-bombs that are too powerful to be of military interest require considerable maintenance costs because tritium must be renewed regularly, the radioactive half-life of tritium being 12 years.
As a result, a large part of the Soviet H-bombs has been dismantled and the lithium 6 deuteride that constituted them is now stored in a special building in Novossibirsk.
On the contrary, most strategists believe that the nature of warfare has changed since 1945 and the emphasis is more on the determination of infantrymen and psychological warfare. They realized that nuclear weapons were never going to be used.
http://armedforcesjournal.com/the-indirect-approach/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction
At the end of 1944, instead of blowing German cities with thousands of bombers vulnerable to anti-aircraft defence, the British had already come up with the idea of sending a single sniper who could assassinate Adolf Hitler as he walked alone around the berhof (but it was too late, Hitler was then leaving for his bunker in Berlin).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Foxley
Notice also the failures of the powerful armies (USSR and USA) in Afghanistan against Taliban warriors who could be said symbolically that they " did not even have good shoes".
A main point in asymmetric warfare is the nature of paramilitary organizations such as Al-Qaeda which are involved in guerrilla military actions but which are not traditional organizations with a central authority defining their military and political strategies. Organizations such as Al-Qaeda may exist as a sparse network of groups lacking central coordination, making them more difficult to confront following standard strategic approaches. This new field of strategic thinking is tackled by what is now defined as netwar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan.
In spite of all the changes in strategic ideas in History we can retain a principle that has endured since Sun Tzu: The destruction of the enemy's armies is not the essence of war; the essence of war is to convince the enemy to accept your position. Therefore, fighting its military forces is at best a means to an end, at worst a total waste of time and energy. »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden%27s_Five_Rings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Warden_III
https://www.ukessays.com/essays/anthropology/wardens-five-rings-theory.php
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_laboratory_of_the_Soviet_secret_services?oldid=770454105
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_intelligence
I suggest that you privately question American officers about these ideas and trends, which are not secret, and which could play a role in efforts to clarify the DPI mystery.
3) • The autopsy reports stated that the Dyatlov group ate 6 to 8 hours before their deaths. No evidence was found in the tent that dinner had been prepared and eaten.
Why would they not have eaten before the tragic and mysterious events that caused their deaths ?
Whatever the DPI's real explanation is, I think that
Photo No. 11 suggests that everything went normally until February 1, 1959 at 5:00 p.m. (=at 17 h)
(except for the slight delay caused by the slower than expected ascent in soft snow).
In my estimation, a likely approximate chronology is as follows:
5:00 p.m. = End of work to establish a platform on the snow-covered slope.
6:00 p.m. = The tent is set up and the hikers go inside for shelter.
Then at least two hours of preparation are needed to unpack, tidy up, sort, and melt the snow with an alcohol burner. (Alcohol can also be used to tie foods. They have melted the snow using an alcohol burner since they were unable to bring firewood with them).
8:00 p.m. = Dinner is ready
9:00 p.m. = Dinner is eaten.
3:00 a.m = Death 6 hours after dinner.
5:00 a.m = Death 8 hours after dinner.
Notice that the temperature inside the tent was low, only a few degrees warmer than outside.
I reasoned with: interior volume = 5 m³, total thermal power released during the night by the 9 immobile people = 1000 watts (which corresponds to a night food ration having the power of 2562 kcal/day).
I want to point out that normally in the absence of fire they would all have been 3/4 dressed.
4) • And how could he have taken photos of the drug's effect? Almost all the action took place outside the tent at night.
Assuming the previous chronology is valid, when he left the tent around 9:00 p.m. Zolotaryov did not know that he would die a few hours later. Zolotaryov hoped to live well for a very long time to come.
Zolotaryov had planned to illustrate his report with photos taken on February 2. It was not a question of taking precise measurements.
I think it is likely that Zolotaryov or his impersonator had contacts with the KGB. He may even have been a full-time agent employed by the KGB.
But it is also likely that the others 8 hikers knew perfectly well that Zolotaryov had been sent by the KGB and that he was in charge of writing a report on them. But this was of no importance and it did not prevent them from getting along and having fun with each other.
It was a very usual and normal situation and there was nothing shocking about it.
5) • What about his last photo that seemed to show a bright flash of light (an explosion perhaps?) that also caught the attention of the three other hikers whose heads seem to be shown at the bottom of the photo?
The camera worn by Zolotariov was light-tight but not waterproof. The shapes obtained by developing the silver film are not images of real objects but only traces of meaningless features.
6) • I contacted the CIA for information about Z..
I had noticed your request to the CIA. This is a good idea, which can be used for others unresolved obscure points, because even a small clue of little importance could be very useful.
However, it is clear that the official services of the USSR (like those of any other country) will not easily, or not at all, divulge additional information on a case that remains a state secret.
On the other hand, the intelligence or espionage services of the United States will be happy if they can show that they have done a good job and that they know certain things that the camp opposite would like to hide.
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