June 23, 2021, 06:02:09 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: "Sasquatch: Legend meets Science" and "The Hoopa Project"  (Read 881 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

February 16, 2021, 05:17:32 AM
Read 881 times
Offline

Nigel Evans


Just finished reading the above two books.
Basically i've tasked myself with understanding the Yeti phenomenon and what the experts are saying. So googling around i've alighted on these two titles as providing quite different but quality perspectives. Both of them are positive on the existence of the north american yeti = bigfoot/sasquatch.

Sasquatch: Legend meets Science, is written by Professor Jeff Meldrum who is an expert on ape and human bipedal mechanics and the evolution of humans locomotion - https://www.isu.edu/biology/people/faculty---professors/jeffrey-meldrum/ there's also a film of the same title but note that the film strikes a tone that is much less definite than in the book.

The Hoopa Project, is wriiten by David Paulides who is retired police officer who has applied his training and witness interview experience to bigfoot research and claims to have read every book on the subject. The Hoopa are tribe of first nation people (pop 3000) who were granted an area of mountainous california say 150 years ago and have lived peacefully ever since. As an indian reservation the area is controlled by it's own officers (elders) and is exempt from normal state wide controls wrt game, fishing etc. American citizens do not have the right freely roam the area, requiring a permit to be off highways. As such it has perhaps remained "wilder".
The region is also a hotspot for bigfoot reports, so David Paulides seems to have invested a lot of time over two years meeting local people and chasing down witnesses to interview. Also having found good quality witnesses (in his opinion as a police officer) he enlists the help of Harvey Pratt who is also a police officer (40 years), USMC Vietnam vet etc who is also a FBI recognised police artist working on many high profile cases, to draw bigfoot during witness interviews. David Paulides also asks witnesses to sign an affidavit as he believes it adds an extra layer of witness concentration, most witnesses request corrections before signing.

I'd say that i'm pleased with my book choice and could recommend both.
So what's the takeaway?
Jeff Meldrum - there are now approximately 300 plaster casts of bigfoot footprints some of which are of extremely good quality, showing the surface features of the skin and behaviour of the foot and these to his expert eyes and others including other scientists and police experts are extremely convincing. Video footage is discussed including the Patterson - Gimlin film which he argues is genuine. Bigfoot maybe able to generate infrasound and even use it in hunting (as apparently tigers do). Witnesses have seen bigfoot hunt deer by simply running them down, not many bears can do that.

David Paulides / Harvey Pratt - this is interesting because as well as making a good case for bigfoot from convincing witnesses the drawings show how human many of the faces are. From memory only one image has facial hair (like the Patterson/Gimlin film) and this introduces the possibility of interbreeding between "pure" bigfoot and humans in past centuries. When attacked by other tribes it was common for people to disperse into the forest and also handicapped babies would commonly be left in the forest to die. So it's plausible that babies/children have been raised and then "intermarried". The human like features fitting with reports from hunters that the creature was too human like to shoot, murder being their concern. A further point is that all the Hoopa witnesses talk of a creature with no neck, but in the Patterson - Gimlin film "Patty" does turn her head.



February 16, 2021, 08:29:03 AM
Reply #1
Offline

KFinn


Just finished reading the above two books.
Basically i've tasked myself with understanding the Yeti phenomenon and what the experts are saying. So googling around i've alighted on these two titles as providing quite different but quality perspectives. Both of them are positive on the existence of the north american yeti = bigfoot/sasquatch.

Sasquatch: Legend meets Science, is written by Professor Jeff Meldrum who is an expert on ape and human bipedal mechanics and the evolution of humans locomotion - https://www.isu.edu/biology/people/faculty---professors/jeffrey-meldrum/ there's also a film of the same title but note that the film strikes a tone that is much less definite than in the book.

The Hoopa Project, is wriiten by David Paulides who is retired police officer who has applied his training and witness interview experience to bigfoot research and claims to have read every book on the subject. The Hoopa are tribe of first nation people (pop 3000) who were granted an area of mountainous california say 150 years ago and have lived peacefully ever since. As an indian reservation the area is controlled by it's own officers (elders) and is exempt from normal state wide controls wrt game, fishing etc. American citizens do not have the right freely roam the area, requiring a permit to be off highways. As such it has perhaps remained "wilder".
The region is also a hotspot for bigfoot reports, so David Paulides seems to have invested a lot of time over two years meeting local people and chasing down witnesses to interview. Also having found good quality witnesses (in his opinion as a police officer) he enlists the help of Harvey Pratt who is also a police officer (40 years), USMC Vietnam vet etc who is also a FBI recognised police artist working on many high profile cases, to draw bigfoot during witness interviews. David Paulides also asks witnesses to sign an affidavit as he believes it adds an extra layer of witness concentration, most witnesses request corrections before signing.

I'd say that i'm pleased with my book choice and could recommend both.
So what's the takeaway?
Jeff Meldrum - there are now approximately 300 plaster casts of bigfoot footprints some of which are of extremely good quality, showing the surface features of the skin and behaviour of the foot and these to his expert eyes and others including other scientists and police experts are extremely convincing. Video footage is discussed including the Patterson - Gimlin film which he argues is genuine. Bigfoot maybe able to generate infrasound and even use it in hunting (as apparently tigers do). Witnesses have seen bigfoot hunt deer by simply running them down, not many bears can do that.

David Paulides / Harvey Pratt - this is interesting because as well as making a good case for bigfoot from convincing witnesses the drawings show how human many of the faces are. From memory only one image has facial hair (like the Patterson/Gimlin film) and this introduces the possibility of interbreeding between "pure" bigfoot and humans in past centuries. When attacked by other tribes it was common for people to disperse into the forest and also handicapped babies would commonly be left in the forest to die. So it's plausible that babies/children have been raised and then "intermarried". The human like features fitting with reports from hunters that the creature was too human like to shoot, murder being their concern. A further point is that all the Hoopa witnesses talk of a creature with no neck, but in the Patterson - Gimlin film "Patty" does turn her head.

Those books sound pretty interesting.  I will look them up.  I'm very curious about this.

Admittedly, I live in north east America and our reservations are much different in my area.  In fact, one of our major interstates runs through a reservation.  Everyone goes there for gas and cigarettes because they are duty-free (not taxed and cheaper) and all of the casinos are native run.  I used to work on the res at one point; my office was in one area and our county-wide victims shelter on the other side.  You come and go with no restrictions.  Occasionally, the Nation (how our local native population calls itself,) would get angry with the state and threaten to cut off traffic on the interstate or into/out of the res but everyone always sided with the res and not our government, lol.  And now that they have the casinos, which are a huge draw for tourism for the region in general, the state is negotiating more positively with the Nation.

Both of these books sound very compelling.  I don't believe/disbelieve because I've seen some strange things in my life that I can not explain.  But, I do need to catch up on the evidence in Dyatlov pointing at a yeti.  Guess that maps out today, lol!!  Thank you for sharing your thoughts on both books!!!
-Ren

February 16, 2021, 10:08:48 AM
Reply #2
Offline

Nigel Evans


Apparently the highways through the area are open to everyone but you can't turn off onto the dirt tracks without permission.


February 16, 2021, 10:39:18 AM
Reply #3
Offline

KFinn


Apparently the highways through the area are open to everyone but you can't turn off onto the dirt tracks without permission.

That absolutely makes sense.

I have a close friend, retired Marine, spends every available moment he has out in the woods.  He's not prone to fantasy, in any way.  Life to him is very black and white.  I would trust this person with my life.  He believes, based on his experiences, that yeti exist.  Whether I believe it or not, he does and I trust him.

I grew up in a very rural area myself not far from Appalachia, and as kids, we were always out on the hills looking for Bigfoot.  It was a normal thing for kids here.  America still has some really rural, wild areas.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out weird things still hide here and there.  I also like the idea of us *not* finding them out of respect for them.  If yeti are here, they seem to not want us bothering them.  I don't know how to put this...I don't trust my country to treat them well, if that makes sense?  We have a culture that likes to kill things to learn more about them.  Many citizens and the authorities a like want to shoot first and ask questions later...
-Ren

February 16, 2021, 10:48:53 AM
Reply #4
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Just finished reading the above two books.
Basically i've tasked myself with understanding the Yeti phenomenon and what the experts are saying. So googling around i've alighted on these two titles as providing quite different but quality perspectives. Both of them are positive on the existence of the north american yeti = bigfoot/sasquatch.

Sasquatch: Legend meets Science, is written by Professor Jeff Meldrum who is an expert on ape and human bipedal mechanics and the evolution of humans locomotion - https://www.isu.edu/biology/people/faculty---professors/jeffrey-meldrum/ there's also a film of the same title but note that the film strikes a tone that is much less definite than in the book.

The Hoopa Project, is wriiten by David Paulides who is retired police officer who has applied his training and witness interview experience to bigfoot research and claims to have read every book on the subject. The Hoopa are tribe of first nation people (pop 3000) who were granted an area of mountainous california say 150 years ago and have lived peacefully ever since. As an indian reservation the area is controlled by it's own officers (elders) and is exempt from normal state wide controls wrt game, fishing etc. American citizens do not have the right freely roam the area, requiring a permit to be off highways. As such it has perhaps remained "wilder".
The region is also a hotspot for bigfoot reports, so David Paulides seems to have invested a lot of time over two years meeting local people and chasing down witnesses to interview. Also having found good quality witnesses (in his opinion as a police officer) he enlists the help of Harvey Pratt who is also a police officer (40 years), USMC Vietnam vet etc who is also a FBI recognised police artist working on many high profile cases, to draw bigfoot during witness interviews. David Paulides also asks witnesses to sign an affidavit as he believes it adds an extra layer of witness concentration, most witnesses request corrections before signing.

I'd say that i'm pleased with my book choice and could recommend both.
So what's the takeaway?
Jeff Meldrum - there are now approximately 300 plaster casts of bigfoot footprints some of which are of extremely good quality, showing the surface features of the skin and behaviour of the foot and these to his expert eyes and others including other scientists and police experts are extremely convincing. Video footage is discussed including the Patterson - Gimlin film which he argues is genuine. Bigfoot maybe able to generate infrasound and even use it in hunting (as apparently tigers do). Witnesses have seen bigfoot hunt deer by simply running them down, not many bears can do that.

David Paulides / Harvey Pratt - this is interesting because as well as making a good case for bigfoot from convincing witnesses the drawings show how human many of the faces are. From memory only one image has facial hair (like the Patterson/Gimlin film) and this introduces the possibility of interbreeding between "pure" bigfoot and humans in past centuries. When attacked by other tribes it was common for people to disperse into the forest and also handicapped babies would commonly be left in the forest to die. So it's plausible that babies/children have been raised and then "intermarried". The human like features fitting with reports from hunters that the creature was too human like to shoot, murder being their concern. A further point is that all the Hoopa witnesses talk of a creature with no neck, but in the Patterson - Gimlin film "Patty" does turn her head.

Good stuff. He has come in for a ton of criticism because of his Big Foot research. But he is highly praised by the great Jane Goodall, whom I used to read about donkeys years ago when I was into Paleontology. She is now well into her 80's.
DB

February 18, 2021, 09:16:58 AM
Reply #5
Offline

KFinn


Coincidentally, after looking up Paulides research on Bigfoot, I realized he has also done extensive research on people who have gone missing in the American national park systems, over the years (not Bigfoot related, separate research.)  He has gathered impressive data to show clusters of areas where people have disappeared.  The man is very thorough and intelligent!  That led to Robert Koester’s research on lost person behaviors.  While the Dyatlov group were not lost in the traditional sense of the word, I'm going to put both of these works on my to read list. 

I also found a radio show interview with Dr. Meldrum.  I found him to be extremely compelling and quite engaging.  His explanations are certainly not flights of fantasy.    Really interesting stuff!!!  Again, thank you for posting about these books!!!
-Ren

March 06, 2021, 03:50:38 PM
Reply #6
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
There is much convincing evidence.  Especially the foot prints.  I have watched Jeff Meldrum in many documentaries but haven't read his book.  There are also lots of convincing stories from credible people.  Yet still no concrete evidence. 

Regards

Star man

March 09, 2021, 01:55:56 PM
Reply #7

tenne

Guest
Coincidentally, after looking up Paulides research on Bigfoot, I realized he has also done extensive research on people who have gone missing in the American national park systems, over the years (not Bigfoot related, separate research.)  He has gathered impressive data to show clusters of areas where people have disappeared.  The man is very thorough and intelligent!  That led to Robert Koester’s research on lost person behaviors.  While the Dyatlov group were not lost in the traditional sense of the word, I'm going to put both of these works on my to read list. 

I also found a radio show interview with Dr. Meldrum.  I found him to be extremely compelling and quite engaging.  His explanations are certainly not flights of fantasy.    Really interesting stuff!!!  Again, thank you for posting about these books!!!

There is a web site, strange outdoors. com which has many of the missing411 (the term coined by Paulides) cases. a lot of youtube channels also cover missing411. it is pretty facinating how many people go missing in almost plain sight (or in the case of the marathon runner, plain sight)

March 30, 2021, 01:33:00 AM
Reply #8
Offline

Nigel Evans


Further investigation of all things BF has landed me on this book -Where the Footprints End: High Strangeness and the Bigfoot Phenomenon, Volume I: Folklore"Yet despite their apparently physical nature, bigfoot and its hairy hominid kin consistently appear mired in High Strangeness--the peculiar, ineffable, and nonsensical absurdities so often encountered in paranormal phenomena.Some sightings seem more consistent with mythology than biology. Bigfoot often present supernatual attributes, like luminescent eyes or the ability to pass, ghostlike, through structures. Anomalous lights are regulalry seen in areas of frequent sasquatch activity. Footprints persistently, if rarely, display odd numbered toes, and--most bafflingly--bigfoot trackways suddenly terminate in the middle of open, untouched terrain."It's dry read, but what is standout is the amount of references, the author's have an encyclopedic knowledge of BF and the paranormal. I'm on page 351 and the references have already passed 1000.
And there's a Vol 2.

March 30, 2021, 08:52:02 AM
Reply #9
Offline

KFinn


Further investigation of all things BF has landed me on this book -Where the Footprints End: High Strangeness and the Bigfoot Phenomenon, Volume I: Folklore"Yet despite their apparently physical nature, bigfoot and its hairy hominid kin consistently appear mired in High Strangeness--the peculiar, ineffable, and nonsensical absurdities so often encountered in paranormal phenomena.Some sightings seem more consistent with mythology than biology. Bigfoot often present supernatual attributes, like luminescent eyes or the ability to pass, ghostlike, through structures. Anomalous lights are regulalry seen in areas of frequent sasquatch activity. Footprints persistently, if rarely, display odd numbered toes, and--most bafflingly--bigfoot trackways suddenly terminate in the middle of open, untouched terrain."It's dry read, but what is standout is the amount of references, the author's have an encyclopedic knowledge of BF and the paranormal. I'm on page 351 and the references have already passed 1000.
And there's a Vol 2.


The second volume is on Kindle Unlimited!!  I may have to wait until Friday for the first volume, as I am already over my budget for books this week, lol! 
-Ren

April 06, 2021, 09:04:37 PM
Reply #10
Offline

RidgeWatcher


I have lived within an hour drive of Hoopa and took care of many patients from Hoopa. I also camped in the Trinity Alps and the Marble Mountain Wilderness on many occasions but never alone. About 13 miles south of Hoopa is the main town of Willow Creek which has The Bigfoot Museum, if you ever get the chance to see it, then do so because it is fascinating. North of Hoopa is a town called Orleans, I camp about 35 miles north of Orleans by a beautiful swimming hole. just outside of Orleans is the place where the Patterson film was taken. That film is quite controversial and I still don't know what to believe but I do believe that something is in the forests out there and that normal, sane people are seeing it more and more. I mention Orleans because a lot of the old people will tell you they have seen them, period and that they will come to the edges of that community. After reading enough of Paulides, I think these things are all over the world
I also have read every Missing411 book by David Paulides and I am glad to hear that others are as well. If you are going into the wilderness then know what is out there, whether it's a falling tree or something worse. Just know.

April 07, 2021, 01:09:27 AM
Reply #11
Offline

Nigel Evans


I'd like to read the missing411 series but i can't find any in the UK under a £100!! So i thought i'll buy one from canammissing and pay international postage. Got to the end of the purchase ($25) and the postage was $65! Jeez.


Still haven't read one!  kewl1


However the upside is that there's a large number of youtube videos by DP. But he needs a better business model for international sales.

April 07, 2021, 01:02:30 PM
Reply #12
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
DB

April 07, 2021, 01:17:27 PM
Reply #13
Offline

KFinn


I'd like to read the missing411 series but i can't find any in the UK under a £100!! So i thought i'll buy one from canammissing and pay international postage. Got to the end of the purchase ($25) and the postage was $65! Jeez.


Still haven't read one!  kewl1


However the upside is that there's a large number of youtube videos by DP. But he needs a better business model for international sales.

Do you have interlibrary loan over there, per chance?  If our shipping wasn't so messed up, I'd gladly offer to pick them up off Amazon and ship them but our postal service is not currently...ideal...
-Ren

April 08, 2021, 01:26:44 AM
Reply #14
Offline

Nigel Evans



April 08, 2021, 01:49:02 AM
Reply #15
Offline

Nigel Evans


I'd like to read the missing411 series but i can't find any in the UK under a £100!! So i thought i'll buy one from canammissing and pay international postage. Got to the end of the purchase ($25) and the postage was $65! Jeez.


Still haven't read one!  kewl1


However the upside is that there's a large number of youtube videos by DP. But he needs a better business model for international sales.

Do you have interlibrary loan over there, per chance?  If our shipping wasn't so messed up, I'd gladly offer to pick them up off Amazon and ship them but our postal service is not currently...ideal...


Thanks for your offer very kind. Googling it, library loan seems to be limited to national boundaries and anyway possibly not wise in the year of covid.
I've just had a look on abebooks and shipping USA to UK varies between £3 and £23!!! All the purchase prices are ridiculously high of course £80 - £150.


He needs to find a uk agent or get the books on kindle...

April 08, 2021, 10:47:28 AM
Reply #16
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I watched a fascinating programme on Sky TV last night. It was Mark Evans and Professor Bryan Sykes on the hunt for Scientific proof of the Yeti type Creatures. Professor Sykes claims that there is an Hybrid of some kind that is the Creature known as Yeti or Big Foot etc.




https://www.markevans.co.uk/television/bigfoot-files/

https://www.channel4.com/press/news/has-british-scientist-finally-unlocked-mystery-yeti

https://www.sky.com/watch/title/series/ee2528e8-c2c1-4075-b759-705aea33515a/bigfoot-files-ee2528e8-c2c1-4075-b759-705aea33515a/episodes/season-1/episode-1

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/dec/18/bryan-sykes-obituary


But the hybrid is between bear species?

Yes apparently that Hybrid is between Bears. Its very interesting though. Whether it gets us any closer to solving the Dyatlov Mystery is another matter.
DB

April 08, 2021, 06:46:08 PM
Reply #17
Offline

RidgeWatcher


Never buy any David Paulides books off of Azn. Always buy from his CanAm missing 411 site. You just have to put up with the mailing charges. His last book is sold out because he had to print them himself because of the covid restrictions closing down publishers. The people selling these books on Amazon are highway robbers.

April 09, 2021, 01:35:01 AM
Reply #18
Offline

Nigel Evans


Never buy any David Paulides books off of Azn. Always buy from his CanAm missing 411 site. You just have to put up with the mailing charges. His last book is sold out because he had to print them himself because of the covid restrictions closing down publishers. The people selling these books on Amazon are highway robbers.
Well when the official outlet insists on charging $90 for international sales that jacks up the price point on the black market? Kindle is obviously the way to go here.

April 15, 2021, 07:55:38 PM
Reply #19
Offline

RidgeWatcher




April 16, 2021, 09:43:41 PM
Reply #21
Offline

RidgeWatcher


I could buy it and send it to you for a lot less if you really want one but I would start with the actual 411 series, they are a lot more interesting I think. It always costs me about $8-9 dollars for shipping to. I think that is how he pays his employees.