..................................
The one on duty .................
..................................
The diaries of "Team Dyatlov" refer several times to the tasks that had to be done to keep their expedition going, e.g. preparing food, waxing skis, making camp, and packing up in the morning. Certainly, there seems to have been some contention over the task of reinforcing the stitching of the tent, which seemed to need doing on a near-daily basis. Anyhow, my guess is that some work was considered an "all-hands" sort of job, whereas other responsibilities were rotated among group members. But, is there anything known from reliable sources about how Dyatlov & co. apportioned these necessary chores?
I'm especially curious about how nighttime watch duty worked. I think I have a pretty good idea, but I have no clue how correct I am. So, please tell me right or wrong I might be here... Each night, the two hikers on watch duty dress more warmly than the rest. One watchperson is on duty for the first half of the night, during which time the other watchperson sleeps. The one on duty sits awake next to the tent entrance, whereas the other sleeps at the rear of the tent (that is, in the draftiest and second-draftiest positions in the tent, respectively, although the rear is also close to the stove). Halfway through the night, the first-shift watchperson wakes their second-shift counterpart, and the two switch places. For the second half of the night, the second-shift watchperson sits awake by the entrance to the tent, while the first-shift watchperson sleeps.
Also, apparently whoever is on watch duty wears a second wristwatch during their shift, to ensure they don't lose track of time?? Is that a documented fact, or is it merely an attempt to explain why Thibeaux-Brignolle had two watches on his wrist?
(Sorry if my post seems overly verbose--I just wanted to make sure it's clear. This is my first post on this board, but I've been lurking here long enough to know that a lot of users here aren't native speakers of English, and that this community seems to rely a lot on machine translation.)
Unfortunately we dont have a lot of information regarding SET DUTIES.Yeah, I was afraid of that. And compounding the lack of information is the fact that the duties would have been somewhat idiosyncratic to the Dyatlov party. After all, they were using two tents stitched together, and using a custom stove that Dyatlov himself designed and built.
We must also take into account that Lyuda was the most staunch and committed Communist in the group.Do you have a source for that piece of information? I have seen that statement asserted as fact elsewhere on this board, but I have not yet seen anything in the primary-source documents that says Dubinina was particularly fervent in Communist ideology.
From the notes of the journalist Grigoriev:Yes, thanks. I've read Grigoriev's notebooks. The passage you quoted was part of my motivation for posting this thread, to ask for clarification. I was unsure if something was lost in translation there, or if Grigoriev was mistaken. See, elsewhere on this forum, Nigel Evans has posted some decent reasons why the Dyatlov party would want to have someone awake at all times overnight (and since this is Nigel, of course one of the reasons involves a toxic gas):
"In the tent usually the two sleeping at the two ends do not undress [because it is cold]. And the middle und rest undress. There are no attendants at night. If someone has to be on duty, then the next day he will be tired and everyone will have to fall behind."
Grigoriev seems to be recording the account of Yuri Yarovoy, a journalist present at the searcher, at this point in his notes - see https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-2.
I would add to that list of reasons the simple necessity of keeping the fire in the stove going, and making sure that nothing outside the stove burns. So, I'll grant that there is less need for a watchperson on nights when the stove is not in use.Okay, but that confuses me even more. If keeping watch means lying awake in the tent, what's this person looking out for? What possible dangers is (s)he supposed to monitor from inside the tent? Why does (s)he needs a watch? No, why does the night watcher need two watches when there are four, five, six people wearing a watch in that same tent with him/her? huh1
What's the story behind this explanation?
- Ensuring the tent doesn't get buried in snow is a good one (CO2 asphyxiation).
- Ensure the tent remains secure in the wind, have to stay dressed in case you have to go outside to make adjustments.
- If the stove was in use, CO poisoning would be a concern.
- Someone's got to wake the group at the correct time or they could lose a day from the plan.
- If someone goes to the toilet during the night someone has to be alert to them not returning promptly or they'd die.
I also have not found anything in the primary source documents on the main site attesting to the strength of Dubinina's commitment to Communism, just references on this forum and elsewhere on the web to secondary sources which appear to be quoting people who knew her.Quotes from people who knew her are good enough to establish personal characteristics like political views. Can you direct me to any secondary sources with such quotes? I've read the interview with her brother on the main site (dyatlovpass.com, of course), and he doesn't say anything about her being a Communist hard-liner.
On the question of Watch Duties. If you have ever camped out in the wilds have you ever thought about having a Night Watch Keeper. I havnt.Nor have I. It's the sort of thing I associate with soldiers in the field, who post sentries to guard their camp overnight. That's why I was surprised to read about Dyatlov team members "on duty" each night, and I've not been able to discern from what I've read so far what exactly the nature of that duty is. Perhapts it's merely that two people each night dress more warmly than the others, sleep at the ends of the tent, and are responsible for going outside in case there's a problem with the tent. That much I could understand. But expecting someone to be awake at all times during the night? That's asking quite a lot from a team of recreational ski-hikers on holiday!
So why did they have Night Watch Keepers.Well, on the other hand, Nigel gives several credible reasons for posting watchkeepers in that quote upthread. And as I said, maintaining the stove alone could be a good enough reason to post watch. You don't go to sleep before quenching your campfire, right? Well, what if your "campfire" is actually inside your tent, contained in a wood-burning stove, and you need (or at least really want) the fire to keep warm overnight? What I have in mind here is how I've read Finland's army does wintertime infantry operations in the field. Finnish soldiers sleep in 7-man tents that are heated with a wood-burning stove. During the day, each man in a 7-man squad carries his share of the components of the tent and stove, and of the supply of firewood. Each night, the 7 men rotate fire-watch duty, which duty includes keeping the fire lit.
I assume that you are wondering about watch duties to explain why some were better dressed than the others.That's part of it. More broadly, I'm trying to understand the Dyatlov party's "standard operating procedure" under normal circumstances to better understand what may have happened during the Incident.
However, to me it seems like the group must have left the tent before settling in for the night:I agree that they were probably interrupted while preparing or eating their dinner (although, if they were victims of foul play, then their assailants could have "staged" the state of the tent once the hikers were done for). However, I do not think they were going to use their stove that night. As I understand, they had to pitch their tent in the "low profile" configuration, because they were exposed to the wind, and the stove cannot be deployed in that configuration. See, they can only pitch the tent in the "high profile" configuration when they're surrounded by trees that block the wind, which was the case on all nights in the tent prior to the evening of February 1st.
- I have read somewhere that the stove was not assembled. I cannot imagine they would want to go to sleep without heating that night. So this means it wasn't assembled yet
- I have also read that crumbles were found in the tent, so they could have been eating their dinner when something interrupted them. Also an onion was found in Zolotaryonv's trouser pocket. I think that points to being interrupted while cutting or eating onion and putting it in your pocket, otherwise you wouldn't carry it around there unless it's some sort of superstitious thing
On the alleged night of the Incident the Stove was not set up for use, so that rules out a reason for having one or two night Watch Keepers.Yes, I agree.
From the notes of the journalist Grigoriev:
"In the tent usually the two sleeping at the two ends do not undress [because it is cold]. And the middle und rest undress. There are no attendants at night. If someone has to be on duty, then the next day he will be tired and everyone will have to fall behind."
Grigoriev seems to be recording the account of Yuri Yarovoy, a journalist present at the searcher, at this point in his notes - see https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-2.
I also have not found anything in the primary source documents on the main site attesting to the strength of Dubinina's commitment to Communism, just references on this forum and elsewhere on the web to secondary sources which appear to be quoting people who knew her.
It's hard to imagine they wanted to sleep without a source of heat.
The temperature would be at best a few degrees above what it was outside, even under blankets. And apparently they didn't use sleeping bags?
Sunrise would be around 9am, I don't think they wanted to spend 15 hours in -15C or lower (in fact much lower at night, but they might not have been aware of that).
The body produces much less heat while stationary/asleep.
Anyway, the temperature within the tent was comparable to a freezer. It amounts to suicide going to sleep there, no? twitch7
What is written by Grigoriev should be understood in this way:I would ask how the practice of duty officers is different in the forest, but unfortunately WAB has said his farewell to this forum.
- this fragment concerns only overnight stays in forestless zone. In the forest the practice of duty officers is quite different.
I'm glad WAB answered this question!I also have not found anything in the primary source documents on the main site attesting to the strength of Dubinina's commitment to Communism, just references on this forum and elsewhere on the web to secondary sources which appear to be quoting people who knew her.
You will not be able find it. Because it is bad myth, created either because people do not understand it at all, or for the purpose of political propaganda. It is necessary know and understand well everything that was related to the youth of that time, so that you can say something truthful.
In the largest number of student youth then in events such as travel, at least something used from politics. They could make jokes about something on this subject (as in their handwritten sheet) or write something about the party's congress on paper in order to let their comrades out of work at the right time. But that was the end of it. They had many other natural hobbies to pursue politics. All this I say because I saw everything in the real life of that time, not because I read somewhere in unreliable source.
It's hard to imagine they wanted to sleep without a source of heat.Take a look at Akselrod's testimony in the case files. Dyatlov had previously gone on a winter trek to the Subpolar Urals that Akselrod led, and they had camped in exposed positions four times that expedition. Dyatlov knew it could be done, because he'd done it before.
The temperature would be at best a few degrees above what it was outside, even under blankets. And apparently they didn't use sleeping bags?
Sunrise would be around 9am, I don't think they wanted to spend 15 hours in -15C or lower (in fact much lower at night, but they might not have been aware of that).
The body produces much less heat while stationary/asleep.
Anyway, the temperature within the tent was comparable to a freezer. It amounts to suicide going to sleep there, no? twitch7
I recently re-read this thread: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=245.0 . I had forgotten that WAB posted in it a few times to explain some details about the hikers' overnight routine on nights when they deployed the stove.
But we dont know if any routine was adhered to. And on the supposedly last night in the Tent there was no Stove set up.Well, sure, but it provides informative context nonetheless.