Theories Discussion > Infra-sound / Gravity fluctuation / Teleportation
Infrasound? Most unlikely.
Per Inge Oestmoen:
Was infrasound subconsciously influencing them and making them lose their senses, so that they fled?
I have learned that some believe that low frequency sounds which formed around the mountain where the nine members of the expedition camped could have influenced their psyche in such a way as to induce a flight reaction to the degree that they left their warm tent and fled underequipped and vulnerable into the dark and cold Siberian night.
However, that theory is improbable to the point of being impossible.
These people were intelligent, experienced and evidently mentally as well as physically strong. It is likely that we can become nervous and even scared by sound frequencies that are capable of subconsciously influencing us. But it is unrealistic to assume that nine resourceful people would let panic overtake them to such a degree that they all would flee the tent. They all knew very well that to leave their shelter in -25 C in the middle of the dark night improperly dressed and without winter mittens, gloves and winter boots is a suicidal action which will invariably lead to death.
The only possible reason why they still just did that, is that the nine members of the group faced a very tangible and real physical threat of the highest order.
hanno:
I agree with you. Wind can make a strange sound, that's for sure. But make you feel so uncomfortable that you leave your tent only in underwear when it is -20 degree ... I can't imagine.
Beyond this: I never heard about a documented case where infrasound can make you crazy. And there were so many people on Kholat Syakhl since the accident, and never ever something similar happened. And further even if there would be infrasound, not all hiker would react to it in the same kind. No, it must be a real danger, as an avalanche, a burning stove, mansi hunter, even a bomb or a rocket.
What I find strange is, that Donnie Eichar favorites this theory. I mean he was personally on that mountain, met with real persons as Yuri Yudin and he is surely one of the experts of the case. And then he comes with the infrasound theory that is in my opinion so unlikely.
WAB:
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on March 12, 2018, 07:46:03 PM ---Was infrasound subconsciously influencing them and making them lose their senses, so that they fled?
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Yes, such can be under certain conditions. In it specify some researches, in particular works of such researchers as W Gavro (France), Tarozy (Austria) and some other.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on March 12, 2018, 07:46:03 PM ---I have learned that some believe that low frequency sounds which formed around the mountain where the nine members of the expedition camped could have influenced their psyche in such a way as to induce a flight reaction to the degree that they left their warm tent and fled underequipped and vulnerable into the dark and cold Siberian night.
--- End quote ---
There is such hypothesis. I think it is rather probable.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on March 12, 2018, 07:46:03 PM ---However, that theory is improbable to the point of being impossible.
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Why?
There are researches in psychophysiology which confirm that if there are influences on a brain of the person in a resonance with brain biorhythms (scale - or delta - a range) such effect is possible quite. The infrasound which influences the person with certain frequency and intensity level, creates accumulation of a certain dose of absorption then there is an effect reminding "panic". It is called the changed Altered state of consciousness (ASС). Such medical researches too exist.
As mathematicians speak: on a place there are all necessary and sufficient conditions for such event.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on March 12, 2018, 07:46:03 PM ---These people were intelligent, experienced and evidently mentally as well as physically strong. It is likely that we can become nervous and even scared by sound frequencies that are capable of subconsciously influencing us.
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Nature influence on the person is so great that it does not depend on its skills and desire and I.Q. Possibilities of the person to resist of the nature are limited. They are not infinite.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on March 12, 2018, 07:46:03 PM ---But it is unrealistic to assume that nine resourceful people would let panic overtake them to such a degree that they all would flee the tent. They all knew very well that to leave their shelter in -25 C in the middle of the dark night improperly dressed and without winter mittens, gloves and winter boots is a suicidal action which will invariably lead to death.
--- End quote ---
It is possible provided that their actions are made reasonably. However ASC it not so non-realised actions, and finish submission to instincts. In other words, it is sequence of behaviour which is caused by psychology - "panic" condition - an involuntary condition of fear - desire to escape from at place where there is a false sensation of danger.
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on March 12, 2018, 07:46:03 PM ---The only possible reason why they still just did that, is that the nine members of the group faced a very tangible and real physical threat of the highest order.
--- End quote ---
The physical phenomenon - infrasound and its influence - also is " very tangible " (c) and “ physical threat of the highest order ” (c)
WAB:
--- Quote from: hanno on April 06, 2018, 02:26:56 PM ---I agree with you. Wind can make a strange sound, that's for sure. But make you feel so uncomfortable that you leave your tent only in underwear when it is -20 degree ... I can't imagine.
--- End quote ---
But, nevertheless, there are physical phenomena which " I can't imagine " (с). It no-dependent clothes on degree and ambient temperature.
--- Quote from: hanno on April 06, 2018, 02:26:56 PM ---Beyond this: I never heard about a documented case where infrasound can make you crazy.
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There are some indirect instructions on such cases. However that there are no regular supervision and studying of this phenomenon, them can carry to other reasons.
Some persons on all planet Earth are engaged in such researches of all. And at amateur level and not regularly. The reason for it simple - is not present commercial effect in the future. Even in the long term time.
--- Quote from: hanno on April 06, 2018, 02:26:56 PM ---And there were so many people on Kholat Syakhl since the accident, and never ever something similar happened.
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It is the big error so to consider. For all 60 years after that the case was not only one group (in 1999) which stopped for one night near to that place where there was a tent of Woodpeckers crew. Weather that night was absolutely another from that that was at Woodpeckers crew.
The stop was special, they made travel to the 40 anniversary of incident of Woodpeckers crew. It was university UPI command.
Besides, there some times on 7 … 9 days spent the night we with my friend - Shura (Alexander Alekseenkov). We specially there came for research of incident of Woodpeckers crew. Here our video https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkU_SsNR7iV2VzEaVSu3ccQ .
Trustworthy information about other commands at us is not present.
However I very well know about that as the infrasonic wave extends and absorbed - I specially was engaged in this phenomenon. Therefore we stopped in such place of this pass where we could not suffer from this phenomenon.
Other groups which they there were passed by very quickly (10 … 30 minutes). Especially it is necessary to notice that their big part passed at good weather where such phenomena could not be observed basically.
--- Quote from: hanno on April 06, 2018, 02:26:56 PM ---And further even if there would be infrasound, not all hiker would react to it in the same kind. No, it must be a real danger, as an avalanche, a burning stove, mansi hunter, even a bomb or a rocket.
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If to consider this case in detail it is excluded. If it is interesting, I will try to analyse in details all these reasons in detail. If only time and possibilities has sufficed me. I have not enough both that, and another.
--- Quote from: hanno on April 06, 2018, 02:26:56 PM ---What I find strange is, that Donnie Eichar favorites this theory. I mean he was personally on that mountain, met with real persons as Yuri Yudin and he is surely one of the experts of the case. And then he comes with the infrasound theory that is in my opinion so unlikely.
--- End quote ---
Anything strange. Donnie Eichar absolutely consider fairly that the similar hypothesis can explain all without attraction superfluous and nonexistent as a matter of fact. I quite share its opinion. At least because advised him on this incident and accompanied it to pass, in its travel there.
We have make progress of this opinion independently from each other and at various times.
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As to trust or not to trust in such events, it is concept as in religion - the belief, instead of what that knowledge and experience is necessary simply. I is supporter of the scientific approach to understanding of such processes.
Per Inge Oestmoen:
--- Quote from: WAB on April 08, 2018, 02:02:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: Per Inge Oestmoen on March 12, 2018, 07:46:03 PM ---The only possible reason why they still just did that, is that the nine members of the group faced a very tangible and real physical threat of the highest order.
--- End quote ---
The physical phenomenon - infrasound and its influence - also is " very tangible " (c) and “ physical threat of the highest order ” (c)
--- End quote ---
Infrasound is not a physical threat of the highest order. It may influence people's mental state. But to hypothesize that it can make nine people out of nine flee their tent and into the Siberian winter night and not return to the tent is quite a stretch.
Infrasound couid not be the reason why all nine perished. It is simply impossible.
Observations by meteorology at the time disproves the theory that the wind was strong enough as to create any such effect.
More importantly, the injuries suffered by the Dyatlov group members point unmistakably to all of them being murdered by humans attacking them. Only Igor Dyatlov would seem to have truly died from hypothermia, all the others showed various degrees of injuries that can only have resulted from an attack. The members of the Dyatlov group became the victims of a very intelligent attack, where they all were lined up after they were forced out from the tent - and then they moved away from the tent in a way that strongly suggested that they were forced to walk. They were not fleeing in panic from the tent, the tracks clearly show that. Still, even if there was no panic only one had boots on and none of the victims had proper winter gloves. If they had fled in a confused mental state with panic and disorder, the tracks would have shown that.
All available evidence strongly suggests that the attackers mercilessly calculated that forcing the nine people out in the winter without proper protection of hands and feet would lead to their death, and so they made sure that their hands and feet were unprotected. However, according to the weather reports at the time, the temperature this night in the relevant area was no colder than -18-25C, and so the Dyatlov group members did not die as soon as expected. The attackers must have followed them after some time - in order to make sure that they perished. Significantly, the last four who died were those who were relatively better dressed and who also suffered the worst injuries. Their attackers must have judged that these four would be able to survive for several days and perhaps even could escape, so they decided to kill them with strong force.
Rustem Slobodin is thought to have been killed first, and this is also as expected. He was very athletic, and would have tried to resist. But his skull was crushed, and he was left unconscious in the snow and died after some time. It is not possible that the damage to his head could have been caused by him falling to the ground.
Neither infrasound nor any other atmospheric phenomena can fight with people, such phenomena cannot break skulls, necks and rib cages.
There is no possibility that the injuries documented could be caused by falls, because the ravine was not deep enough or sufficiently precipitous and the injuries would not show such a pattern as was found on the bodies. It is extremely suspicious that some investigators even mentioned a fall as a possible cause, and it is clear that the Soviet authorities did not want the investigators to draw the only sensible conclusion that this tragedy was a case of a cold blooded murder with planned intent to kill all nine hikers. The severe damage to the rib cage of two of the victims is particularly indicative of a murderous attack. It is probable that the damage was done with elbow strikes to both sides of the rib cage, a technique which is well known from close combat techniques. No superhuman strength and no bomb blast is required to crush a person's rib cage.
The Dyatlov group was murdered. The great mystery lies in why it was done and who did it. That question can only be answered if and when some of those who know tell the truth of what happened.
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