Victims and Case Files > Semyon Zolotaryov
Could Zolotaryov be a saboteur?
Jean Daniel Reuss:
Reply #9
--- Quote from: Игорь Б. on September 12, 2021, 11:10:30 PM ---
--- Quote from: Jean Daniel Reuss on September 12, 2021, 02:48:56 PM ---This demonstrates that he could not be seized by panic and that in the face of any danger he reacted rationally and, as is said, "without undue haste".
--- End quote ---
Жаль, что во Франции нет скунсов. Хорошо бы завесть.
--- End quote ---
I wish there were skunks in France. It would be nice to have one.
°°°°In the section "Could Zolotaryov be a saboteur?" topic 734.0, I commented, in response to Jacques-Emile, on what is known about Zolotaryov's military life during the Great Patriotic War and the subsequent effects this might have had on his personality and his behaviour in civilian life.
To discuss the theory that " a wolverine might have stunk up the tent and the hikers would have gone down to wait for the tent to air out", I would suggest that we go to the section that is set up for that purpose, i.e. "Theories Discussion > Wolverine > Wolverine", topic=390.0.
I agree with your explanation that a wolverine suddenly made the air inside the tent unbreathable and forced all the hikers to rush out of the tent.
The wolverine is a bold and aggressive animal, which is not afraid of anything. A wolverine could smell the food of the hikers from a distance and was able to get inside the tent.
I did not fully read on " http://1723.ru/ " (thanks to the automatic translator DeepL) your explanations with the hard snow cave and its collapse which would have crushed the 4 of the Den: Zolotaryov, Dubinina, Tibo, Kolevatov.
I also agree that a good explanatory theory of DPI must be able to reconstruct in a plausible way almost everything that is known about it.
So how do you explain Dubinina's change of attitude after the Vizhay passage, Slobodin's skull fracture, Kivonishenko's leg burns, the state of Kolgomorova's fists....etc?
°°°°В разделе "Мог ли Золотарев быть диверсантом?" темы 734.0 я, отвечая Жаку-Эмилю, прокомментировал то, что известно о военной жизни Золотарева во время Великой Отечественной войны и о том, какое влияние это могло оказать на его личность и поведение в гражданской жизни.
Для обсуждения теории о том, что "росомаха могла провонять палатку, и туристы спустились бы вниз, чтобы подождать, пока палатка проветрится", я бы предложил перейти в раздел, созданный для этой цели, т.е. "Обсуждение теорий > Росомаха > Росомаха", topic=390.0.
Я согласен с вашим объяснением, что росомаха внезапно сделала воздух внутри палатки не пригодным для дыхания и заставила всех участников похода поспешно покинуть палатку.
Росомаха - смелое и агрессивное животное, которое ничего не боится. Росомаха издалека учуяла запах пищи походников и смогла проникнуть внутрь палатки.
Я не до конца прочитал на сайте " http://1723.ru/ " (спасибо автоматическому переводчику DeepL) ваши объяснения с пещерой из твердого снега и ее обвалом, который бы раздавил 4-х из Дена: Золотарева, Дубинина, Тибо, Колеватова.
Я также согласен с тем, что хорошая объяснительная теория ДПИ должна быть способна правдоподобно реконструировать почти все, что о ней известно.
Как же вы объясните изменение отношения Дубининой после Вижайского перехода, перелом черепа Слободина, ожоги ног Кивонишенко, состояние кулаков Колгоморовой?
Игорь Б.:
--- Quote from: Jean Daniel Reuss on September 13, 2021, 03:49:33 PM ---
So how do you explain Slobodin's skull fracture, Krivonishenko's leg burns, the state of Kolgomorova's fists....etc?
--- End quote ---
Ответы на эти вопросы есть в "Ответах на все вопросы...":
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Трещина черепа Слободина посмертная:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=90633
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=108717
Ожог ноги Кривонищенко получил у костра, когда лежал на животе:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=59955
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=95337
Ссадины на руках при замерзании - обычное дело:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=95223
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=90276
Jacques-Emile:
You can find it. Be an on line detective. The SAM base was northeast of Sverdlovsk. The train to IVDEL ran through it. The Powers incident was the first time that the Soviet Union stopped the overflight espionage of U2 plane. Always in murder, first question - WHY? If it is worth risking thermonuclear obliteration, isn't it then a sufficient reason for murder?
Why, murder? Wild Menk, drunk Manzi, rogue MGB? Really? To kill little Princes of Technology of new SSSR? To kill graduates of the premier technical college during a nuclear Cold War? Who dares? But if it is related to espionage on S300 SAM - yes, their lives are not worth that.
Read.
I still am silent about the Nine out of respect. They deserve the respect they have not been granted.
Ziljoe:
--- Quote from: Jacques-Emile on September 22, 2021, 06:24:18 AM ---You can find it. Be an on line detective. The SAM base was northeast of Sverdlovsk. The train to IVDEL ran through it. The Powers incident was the first time that the Soviet Union stopped the overflight espionage of U2 plane. Always in murder, first question - WHY? If it is worth risking thermonuclear obliteration, isn't it then a sufficient reason for murder?
Why, murder? Wild Menk, drunk Manzi, rogue MGB? Really? To kill little Princes of Technology of new SSSR? To kill graduates of the premier technical college during a nuclear Cold War? Who dares? But if it is related to espionage on S300 SAM - yes, their lives are not worth that.
Read.
I still am silent about the Nine out of respect. They deserve the respect they have not been granted.
--- End quote ---
Hi Jacques-Emile
Are saying they were murdered because of the SAM base?
Jean Daniel Reuss:
--- Quote from: Jacques-Emile on September 22, 2021, 06:24:18 AM --- Reply #12
You can find it. Be an on line detective. The SAM base was northeast of Sverdlovsk. The train to IVDEL ran through it. The Powers incident was the first time that the Soviet Union stopped the overflight espionage of U2 plane. Always in murder, first question - WHY? If it is worth risking thermonuclear obliteration, isn't it then a sufficient reason for murder?
Why, murder? Wild Menk, drunk Manzi, rogue MGB? Really? To kill little Princes of Technology of new SSSR? To kill graduates of the premier technical college during a nuclear Cold War? Who dares? But if it is related to espionage on S300 SAM - yes, their lives are not worth that.
Read.
I still am silent about the Nine out of respect. They deserve the respect they have not been granted.
--- End quote ---
••• ---> [ the overflight espionage of U2 plane.]
I do not believe in an espionage case in the genre that Rakitin. Scientific and academic circles obviously had certain relations with the Soviet army.
But to each his own job. The 9 hikers had no responsibilities, nor any specific information about the operation and guarding of military air defense installations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-to-air_missile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina
••• ---> [Why, murder?]
In the case of nine suspicious and difficult to explain deaths, the first question is absolutely not WHY but: is the cause of death of criminal or natural origin?
In the case of Kolgomorova, Slobodin, Dyatlov and Doroshenko, one does not need to be very knowledgeable to understand that they were first stunned by violent blows and then then abandoned thus immobilized in the cold to deliberately provoke certain death (more or less rapid). It is an easy and economical killing process that has been widely used around Gulag camps since 1929.
Krivonischenko was tortured by fire and while he was screaming in pain the torturers had fun pushing his hand down in his throat.
Just read calmly and without prejudice and the obvious should appear to you:
https://dyatlovpass.com/death
This is what Eduard Tumanov says - or suggests - to whom you cannot deny a certain competence on this subject.
Thus you begin to understand that the DPI is a serious failure for the KGB, which has proved to be incompetent and incapable of protecting the lives of the 9 "little Princes of Technology of the new SSSR" i.e. the "graduates of the premier technical college during a nuclear Cold War" .
••• ---> [Who dares?]
It was some of the mighty chiefs of the NKVD in charge of certain camps of the Gulag linked probably to the Ivdellag. ;
Indeed the secret report of Khrushchev, of February 24, 1956, (which is very long and repetitive, but almost amusing to read), clearly implied the destruction of the NKVD (and therefore the liquidation of some officers guilty of atrocities) thanks to the efforts of the agents of the KGB (13 March 1954-6 November 1991), which was partly achieved until October 14, 1964 : "when the Presidium and the Central Committee each voted to accept Khrushchev's "voluntary" request to retire from his office...."
These officers (or already ex-officers) of the NKVD feared, with good reason (because like Josef Stalin, they had become typical psychopaths) of being judged and justly condemned to death as had been their most famous and excellent colleagues sentenced to death during the the Khrushchev Thaw period (1953-1964), for instance:
Bogdan Koboulov (1904-1953)
Lavrenti Beria(1899-1953)
Mikhaïl Ryoumine(1913-1954)
Viktor Abakoumov(1908-1954)
Vsevolod Merkoulov(1895-1954)
Amaïak Koboulov (1906-1955)
Boris Rodos(1905-1956)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Rodos
« Rodos was sentenced to death on February 26, one day after the Secret Speech. »
To understand the progressive depravity of some guards like their master Stalin, (which was therefore understood by Khrushchev in 1956)
see also : Drawings from the Gulag, by Danzig Baldaev(1925-2005), in English :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/drawings-gulag-danzig-baldaev-review
https://www.amazon.fr/Drawings-Gulag-Danzig-Baldaev/dp/0956356249
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%B5%D0%B2,_%D0%94%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B3_%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
or
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Балдаев,_Данциг_Сергеевич
••• ---> [ I still am silent about the Nine out of respect]
My conception of respect is different.
Reading and careful studies focusing on Eduard Tumanov, Per Inge Oestmoen and Aleks Kandr have led me to conclude that the most likely explanation for DPI is that this "compelling unknown force" or "overwhelming force" is none other than the surprise attack of 3 mercenary killers, (certainly former Stalinist guards specializing in the pursuit and liquidation of the rare escapees from the camps) which the 9 hikers, despite a courageous but inevitably vain defense, were unable to resist .
--- Quote from: Ziljoe on September 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM --- Reply #13
Hi Jacques-Emile
Are [you ?] saying they were murdered because of the SAM base?
--- End quote ---
Indeed Jacques-Emile probably wanted to facilitate the reading of his post by being rather brief.
But as I am slow of the brain and not very intelligent the brevity of his comment did not allow me to understand what he wanted to explain.
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