August 10, 2022, 04:26:27 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Don't lose labaz  (Read 1042 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

February 05, 2022, 02:22:27 PM
Read 1042 times
Offline

Osi


The Urals are known for their strong winds. These winds create relentless erosion and do not allow a sapling branch to grow on its barren tops. It blows the soft snow falling on it to its skirts overnight. On the Yandex map; In the stream beds at the foot of the river, you can see the snowdrifts that do not melt even in June. The Cedar region is the place where this snowstorm accumulates the most. 4-5 meters of snow can accumulate in the gazebos that form the stream beds. Shapeless and dangerous glaciers are formed with the moisture of the water in the stream bed. Tibo and Lyutmila, who were collecting wood, slipped from this hidden ice under the soft snow and fell into the rocky valley and were badly injured. When Semyon can't help, he approaches 300 meters towards the tent and asks for help. Dyatlov, who closed the entrance of the tent well; Hearing the scream, he makes a small cut in the tent and looks out. Thinking that 3 people are in a difficult situation nearby, they make a vertical cut on the tent and exit the tent. During this rush, half of the tent collapses. When the Dyatlov Group meets with Semyon, they realize that the accident is in the forest. A half-hour rescue mission is attempted, but this evacuation will take hours and will not be successful. A cave with a long entrance is dug into the huge pile that accumulates a few meters in front of the stream bed. Isolated with fir branches and clothes. Kolave ​​and Semyon accompany the wounded. The sloppy entrance will likely collapse and those inside will seek an outlet to the creek bed for oxygen, but they won't be successful until morning. Dyatlov's biggest concern was how to preserve the food needed for the return (12 days). They could not travel by weight. Labaz was necessary. But they went down and were afraid of losing the lab. The main reason for climbing Kholata was to determine from a bird's eye view which arm of Auspiya's labaz they were hiding. On the way back from Otorten, Kholatta would arrive at the same address and the laboratory would be easily found. When it was understood that the weather would be bad, it was decided to set up a tent before sunset. Not wanting to spend a cold night, Semyon took Liyutmila and Tiboy with him for 1 mile. persuaded him to bring a box of wood from the forest entrance.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2022, 11:27:08 AM by Osi »
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennM

February 06, 2022, 08:02:25 PM
Reply #1
Offline

GlennM


Osi,, a good hypothesis. What idea do you have about the extreme knifing of the tent? Also, is it likely to find firewood with no boots or,skis? I agree with your conclusion that natural causes were the reason they died.
 

February 07, 2022, 02:04:31 AM
Reply #2
Offline

Osi




You have a lakeside house in the country and your dog is fluttering in icy water. What is expected of you is to put on your diving gear or notify the fire department. In such situations, people often choose to take risks and enter the ice. This is how I compare the psychological mood in the tent. The person coming halfway up the slope asks you for help. Those in the tent do not care about their own safety and the safety of the tent because the person asking for help is nearby. (peephole pieces, one cutout for exit). When they descend 300 meters, they learn that the survivors are in the forest. In this case, do you choose to go to the forest as soon as possible or go back to the tent and buy clothes? If those in the forest had not returned that night, they would have put on sheltered clothing and searched safely. The clothes of the wood-collectors Semyon Tibo and Lyutmila were enough. Even Semyon's camera was with him.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennM

February 07, 2022, 04:58:10 PM
Reply #3
Offline

GlennM


Osi, thank you for the drawing and clear explanation. Let us think about this some more. We assume someone calls Help! Others rush to meet that person. That person explains situation.The person says "Two others are in distress!" What next? Rescuers must say, "We need a rope!" If rescuers need a rope, there is time for boots,? What do you think was said before all went to their doom?
 

February 07, 2022, 11:22:30 PM
Reply #4
Offline

Osi


Dyatlov and his team know the area well. not deep valleys that would require rope rescue. If the person who slips from the ice and falls into the valley is not injured, he can even get out by his own means. It is not a canyon that stretches for meters, but in some places 5 meters, a little further 1 meter rolling valleys.It had just gotten dark (18.30 hours). The forest border was barely visible from the tent. The strong wind had just begun to keep them from returning to the tent. Go down into the forest, pick up the 2 wounded and return to the tent. They may have thought that it could be done in about half an hour. They do not know the condition of the injured. 2 injured are unable to walk. On the rescue mission, Rustam may have fallen (perhaps from the tree) and they were all wet. Sudden cooling in half an hour and an increasing wind. The injured are only to be transported on stretchers.The injured can only be transported on a stretcher. The injured can only be transported on a stretcher.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2022, 01:27:39 AM by Osi »
 

February 08, 2022, 05:19:25 PM
Reply #5
Offline

GlennM


Osi, an intelligent and logical reply. Thank you. If it were I responding to a distress call, I might run to meet the caller. If I did not need a rope, I would surely say, Let me put my boots on and I will be right down to help. Osi, if I went to help unprepared, would I then add to the difficulties? I think yes, I would be a trouble maker. Osi, do you think the hikers would bring wood out of the forest the day before instead of sending a group to cut branches in the last day? It appears a long way to go.
I have heard ot said that hiking groups should never split up.Comment?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2022, 08:38:11 PM by GlennM »
 

February 09, 2022, 12:35:46 AM
Reply #6
Offline

Osi


I assume we started climbing Kholat in the afternoon. 5 hours of hard walking and 1 hour of snow removal. Wet and heavy boots. The person who came for the call for help is very close to you. There is no reason to wear boots, you will go down 200 meters anyway, to understand the problem. Of course, no one walks in 1 km of snow with socks, but if you have friends who have fallen into the valley below, it is unreasonable to go up to the tent and put on boots. No one will freeze if they walk for 1 hour with at least two 3 layers of dry wool socks.I agree with the group act together rule. However, I think that Semyon and Lyudmila were opposed to Dyatlov's decision to spend a night on the hillside (which he made abruptly) with very little wood.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 12:43:38 AM by Osi »
 

February 09, 2022, 01:24:41 PM
Reply #7
Offline

GlennM


Osi, this is good. Now, my thinking goes like this, " Is having a fire in the stove worth having people walk a mile downhill in snow, chop wood and carry wood one mile uphill in snow?"  I know the hikers were friendly, but 2 miles in the snow for an armload of firewood? What am I not understanding?
 

February 09, 2022, 02:06:08 PM
Reply #8
Offline

Osi


There was a storm all day long in the central parts of Turkey today. The trees were about to fall to the ground. (Northern winds)I think the first week of February is nirvana (weather-wise) for northern latitude. For an unequipped camp set up on a slope, 5 kg of spare wood in the stove will provide a maximum of 2 hours of heat advantage. I would like to point out that the heat loss, which will drop to -40 degrees later in the night, worries a few people in the group who want to wake up to a hot Kholat morning.In addition, the ridge is not dense in terms of snow cover. Swept ground. Let's not be afraid to go to the forest.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 02:13:08 PM by Osi »
 

February 10, 2022, 04:32:51 PM
Reply #9
Offline

GlennM


Osi, I am thinking only two dead hikers are found with arms around others. Everybody else dies alone. Paradoxical cold makes you feel hot. Is it possible the hikers did not feel the cold as they were dying and so did not want so many clothes?
 

February 10, 2022, 10:38:55 PM
Reply #10
Offline

Osi


Paradoxically, more clothing should have been lost in the undressing. Even a few bare bodies. Very complicated.
 

February 11, 2022, 12:49:49 PM
Reply #11
Offline

Manti


There is an interview with Yuri Kuntsevich in one of the videos in this thread: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1053.0;topicseen

He raises an interesting point. He says, the hikers would not have undressed or changed in an unheated tent. And the stove was not started yet. So even if they leave the tent in a hurry, they should have been fully clothed. He says: "something doesn't add up there..."

And also in those videos, and I guess to anyone visiting the Dyatlov Pass, it becomes apparent that going to the cedar also makes no sense. It's deep in the forest, if they wanted firewood for the stove, or even if they all abandoned the tent and wanted a wind-protected place with wood to start a bonfire, there are many such places and plenty of trees between the tent and the cedar. To go to the cedar, they have to cross streams and then go uphill. It's too far to go for wood...
 

February 11, 2022, 01:27:31 PM
Reply #12
Offline

Osi


There is a barren rocky space (1000 meters) between the place where the tent is set up and the beginning of the forest. There is no wood to burn. There is a distance of 300 meters between the place we marked as the beginning of the forest and the cedar. There are pine saplings, sparse and weak birch trees up to the cedar. The forest starts with Cedar. The two closest sides of the strait between the tent and the forest are caught in a straight line between the tent and the It shouldn't be difficult for these mountaineers to descend 1km (3 people) on a hardened ground on a 20 degree slope (less down) and come back with fuel (also without skis). The snow cover was too much in the forest or on the border. They could travel 3 km a day. Going to Otorten and returning to the same place (36 km) meant a delay of 10 days. The snow cover was harsh on the ridges and they realized that they could travel 8-10 km a day. They would also slide downhill..
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 02:28:45 PM by Osi »
 

February 11, 2022, 04:34:58 PM
Reply #13
Offline

GlennM


The hikers climbed out of the Aispura valley. They could have skied downhill into the Lovasa valley, but they did not. Why? It would be too much toil to to climb out of the Lovasa valley. Far better to camp on the high ground of 1079. Could parachute flares drive the hikers to find shelter and safety from harm. Perhaps it was not a quest for firewood, but instead parachute flares and explosives shaking the ground. Were American spy planes photographing Russia at night in 1959?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 09:37:26 PM by GlennM »
 

February 12, 2022, 04:48:05 AM
Reply #14
Offline

Manti


The forest starts with Cedar.
If you watch those videos in the linked thread.. you will see that this is not the case. The videos are really informative, albeit a bit "childish", but I recommend watching all of them to anyone. A picture says a thousand words and a video is like a thousand pictures

The hikers climbed out of the Aispura valley. They could have skied downhill into the Lovasa valley, but they did not. Why? It would be too much toil to to climb out of the Lovasa valley. Far better to camp on the high ground of 1079.
But they were going to Otorten, not 1079, so they would need to lose altitude anyway. And their planned route was via the Lozva valley. Maybe they realized this is too much work and planned to go along the ridge... even then, they have to descend the next day. Going to where the tent was found makes no sense in either case. If they decide to avoid the valley, they could instead just follow a bit above the treeline: always close to the forest so there is firewood, but still on open ground so it's easier to ski.

Because they write in their diaries that wind speed is comparable to an airplane's engines, there is a downside to continuing on the ridge of course.
 

February 12, 2022, 08:30:05 AM
Reply #15
Offline

GlennM


Manti, who in their right mind would stage a crime scene where the tent is so obviously misplaced? Did they think the authorities were without their wits? Why do we find three hikers dead in the snow trying to attain this tent? If this were a crime, those three should have been hidden and buried elsewhere, or left for the wolves,(shivver).  Teddy`s idea that the skiers went downhill and your suggestion they could skirt the tree line are intelligent and reasonable, but we must follow,the bread crumbs, so to speak. For me this leads to two questions that might be keys. 1. Who stands to gain from their loss? 2. Who was the idiot that puts a tent, but not the bodies a mile away?  Is it plausible to believe they camped in the forest, met with foul play and the villains only moved the tent a mile uphill to throw future investigators off the scent? Who would leave that much to chance? Manti, you

If the hikers were victims of foul play, they could be buried anywhere in that lonely country. Their belongings, tent and skis burned and buried. Their disappearance put down to any number of farfetched  reasons. Instead, they are found in a condition and location which is logical, explainable and actual. Do you not feel that by keeping to high ground was a better strategy at the time? If they were to ski down slope, could they not be fooled by terrain in whiteout conditions by misreading the slope and skiing the wrong direction? As it is, popular wisdom suggests Igor was an experienced hiker, prestigious leader but  discounted as lousy at reading a compass! It makes sense to believe they actually camped on the high ground and were scared of that ground by a tremor. This tremor could be due to slab shift, parachute flares or whatever else is within reason. I opt for the geology. They misjudged the distance to the safety of the forest. The chance of being burned by a flare is infinitesimal. The difficulty in reasoning backwards from the results to the beginning seems to be founded in the bungling of the case, probably from an assumption the kids were caught out in conditions they couldn't handle.