Factual Information > Materials Modern
Latest development on the attempts to reopen the case
WAB:
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on November 13, 2018, 05:45:55 PM ---WAB
--- Quote ---What & whom it is not clear in this process?.
--- End quote ---
For me. A lot of things. For example:
1) when did Ivanov write the Index (pp 1-3)? Before sending the case to Moscow or after that, but before sending it to archive?
--- End quote ---
It be overlook now. I be say later.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on November 13, 2018, 05:45:55 PM ---2) for how many parts Ivanov divided the case, before sending to Archive? At least for 3 parts for different departments with different levels of security
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It already work not to Ivanov. Clerks in corresponding archive are engaged in it. Division of parts of case occurs on degree of their privacy: standard files, files for office use, confidential files, top confidential files, top confidential files of special importance.
Other division in the Soviet closed office-work was not.
On files of radiological examination there was a signature stamp "confidentially". On what else other files there was any other signature stamp? + to that, there are instructions of chief-public prosecutor Klinov what files where it is necessary to place. What action still can be? Only it is not necessary to think out that is conspyrology. These are fiction, or no be instead of a reality.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on November 13, 2018, 05:45:55 PM ---3) each part was held in the 1st archive separately, that means at least 3 separate archiv's folders were formed.
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What could it mean? If there is maintenance of the registration of documents, it should be observed. Exceptions from these rules were very seldom.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on November 13, 2018, 05:45:55 PM ---Not by Ivanov, by archive's staff. Who had his own duty and responsibility, distinct from Ivanov's, for dozens of years.
Even as Ivanov, Klimov and others left Prosecutors office.
--- End quote ---
I will repeat once again: Ivanov do`t things it , it made other people, which was engaged in these affairs:
a. Store documents in archive
And still absolutely other people, which:
b. Watch observance of norms of storage of confidential documents.
Change of degree privacy, and then and transfer to other archive depends on people.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on November 13, 2018, 05:45:55 PM ---4) the main part of case was transfered from 1st archive to the 2nd ( From archive of Prosecutors office to State Archive of Sverdlovskay oblast) and contains 387 pages.
When have been added 5 more pages? If in 80xx we can see that case start to contain 392 pages?
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Here it should be found out in concrete archive. Because the business structure could include documents which concern only the storage, but are not structure of the case. Therefore can be both a decrease of such documents, and joining new in a new place of storage.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on November 13, 2018, 05:45:55 PM --- When have been added 10 more pages??? If the case contains 402 pages finally?
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The answer contains in question. The answer: it was then when there were changes in storage. It is necessary understand subtleties of archival process.
But to that what has occurred to Dyatlov group, it has no relation.
You can long suspect archival clerks of murder of J. F. Kennedy, they have crucified Jesus Christ, have arranged incident with Dyatlov group, but all it here there is nothing.
It is necessary to be engaged in conditions on a place of the occurred incident. Only in it there is a key to answer.
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on November 13, 2018, 05:45:55 PM ---Its mean that after transferring main part, someone, time to time, found somewhere some pages, belonged to our case, and added it to the "main part".
I have very simple questions. "Somewhere " - where? And are we sure that all "some pages" are found and added to the case? If "somewhere" means 1st Archive, it also means that different parts had different level of holding in accordance with the archive's Law. Not Ivanov's wishes. And the main reasons of differences - stamp of "secret". On the folder, not pages. We don't see any folders from the 1st archive.
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What means “We don't see …”? Kuntsevich has get digital copies from originals of the case. You them saw and studied. If you personally did not see case (original) it does not mean that there that not as should be. On meeting of the government you too cannot go at own will but only if to you will resolve. Achieve the permission for original text in Office of Public Prosecutor or administration Sverdlovsk region and look at it how many want.
By the way, you do not suppose, what in the course of storage and use of this business as archival case single sheets can be lost, come to full worthlessness and etc.? And at transformation of separate parts of case from "closed" to "opened" there can be documents which it testify. Or you consider that all is eternally and has hardened?
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on November 13, 2018, 05:45:55 PM ---Its where "official" questions.
I have "unofficial" questions too. And I know exactly nobody answer for its, neither you or Buyanov.
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Some people have such questions that 100 wise men cannot answer them for 100 years. To you it is clear, on what I hint? grin1
--- Quote from: Vietnamka on November 13, 2018, 05:45:55 PM ---Do you want me to ask its too?
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And who to you disturbs? It does not allow you your religion? grin1
If you no be assured that anybody never will answer the asked question it is a separate theme for psychology (not for psychiatry!).
What for you are engaged in this case if are assured, what to you anybody and never will answer the necessary question?
Vietnamka:
WAB
--- Quote ---.It already work not to Ivanov. Clerks in corresponding archive are engaged in it.
--- End quote ---
And you can repeat it again
--- Quote ---.I will repeat once again: Ivanov do`t things it , it made other people, which was engaged in these affairs:
a. Store documents in archive
--- End quote ---
But for me more important to see documents which contain Ivanov's resolution with clear recommendation how to storage different parts of case.
1) (Resolution)
comrade Y. I. Rogovoy
per directions from N.I. Klinov
the request to be kept in a secret archive,
keep the package in top secret proceedings.
11.VII.59 Ivanov (signature)
2)
hope is the thing with feathers analysis
"Clerks in corresponding archive" are NOT engaged in decision which pages are related to Dyatlov's case.
--- Quote ---On files of radiological examination there was a signature stamp "confidentially". .
--- End quote ---
Can you show this stamp ?
--- Quote ---.What means “We don't see …”? Kuntsevich has get digital copies from originals of the case.
--- End quote ---
He did the copies of the main part's cover in the 2nd archive (State archive of Sverdlovsksy oblast), but he never saw the folders (contained another parts of case) in the 1st archive. Because (at least) this part were transferred long time before he start investigate Dyatlov's story at all.
Finally you are telling
--- Quote ---. Change of degree privacy, and then and transfer to other archive
--- End quote ---
But it mean what some parts of case have had "degree of privacy" should be changed. What about your earlier pronousment "case never been closed?" . Main part of the case may be not, but some parts of the case were.
The problem is that we don't know how many parts and which parts. It's exactly clear, that radiological expertise was in the "main part" at the moment of transferring from one archive to another. But 2 more parts were added much more later.
--- Quote ---.What for you are engaged in this case if are assured, what to you anybody and never will answer the necessary question?
--- End quote ---
Ok, 2 simple questions
1) WHO and WHEN has get the accesses to case in 1990xx and did the first copies ?
2) where the pp. 370, 375 now and how it happened that this pages are not in archive at least since 1996, but Fond shared copies of its? twitch7
sarapuk:
So we have it on RECORD that some if not all of the DOCUMENTS were CLASSIFIED as TOP SECRET ! ? How many criminal cases are ever CLASSIED as TOP SECRET ! ? Something is clearly not normal about the DYATLOV CASE.
Vietnamka:
--- Quote from: sarapuk on November 18, 2018, 05:32:01 AM ---So we have it on RECORD that some if not all of the DOCUMENTS were CLASSIFIED as TOP SECRET ! ? How many criminal cases are ever CLASSIED as TOP SECRET ! ? Something is clearly not normal about the DYATLOV CASE.
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Yes, we have resolution to (at least) keep some documents in the "TOP SECRET" department.
Why Am i talking here about so boring things as stamps, resolution and archives? Because you can forget about any non criminal reasons. Even you can forget about some regular criminal Reasones.
"Top secret" level can be provided in cases prosecuted for subversive activities against the security of the State.
Monopoly on violence. Max Weber.
And... follow the topic..." latest development " show us that may be this monopoly still present)))
We discussed with Teddy about possibilities to find some information not only in Russian archives.
sarapuk:
So there is plenty of work for us investigators to get on with. Searching new avenues of possibilities. Spreading the word and keeping this subject alive. And I suppose Russia is still capable of yielding some secrets.
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