May 27, 2022, 09:10:32 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Did they act rationally or irrationally, or did they have no choice?  (Read 1727 times)

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January 16, 2022, 08:25:35 PM
Reply #30
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GlennM


Manti, your comment about escaping the tent and descending in the path of a snow slide is clear reasoning. Do you not think it reasonable to consider they would not go uphill nor laterally to put distance between and a threat?  I do.  Some time ago I speculated that Russian aircraft were the source of the problem. This was reinforced by that last photo of the out of focus orb. I thought earth shaking from aerial activity would be a possibility.

You know, by all accounts these were very intelligent experienced grade 2 (and one grade 3) hikers. They are not going to go off half cocked unless panicked. To quote an old adage,  " something rattled their cage". It would be earth, air, fire or water in some form or other. I opt for earth tremors , a,transient event described as an unknown compelling force. Let's continue this quest for truth, yes?



 

January 16, 2022, 10:10:29 PM
Reply #31
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Ziljoe


Manti, your comment about escaping the tent and descending in the path of a snow slide is clear reasoning. Do you not think it reasonable to consider they would not go uphill nor laterally to put distance between and a threat?  I do.  Some time ago I speculated that Russian aircraft were the source of the problem. This was reinforced by that last photo of the out of focus orb. I thought earth shaking from aerial activity would be a possibility.

You know, by all accounts these were very intelligent experienced grade 2 (and one grade 3) hikers. They are not going to go off half cocked unless panicked. To quote an old adage,  " something rattled their cage". It would be earth, air, fire or water in some form or other. I opt for earth tremors , a,transient event described as an unknown compelling force. Let's continue this quest for truth, yes?





All been looked at before.
 

January 17, 2022, 10:40:37 AM
Reply #32
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ElizabethHarris


Glen M, they didn't run for their lives. The footprints outside the tent are precise and carefully aligned suggesting that they didn't leave the tent in a frenzy of panic.

Ilahyol, I believe you are correct, sir.

Manti, its a strange choice of words for me. Accidental but violent. and likened to injuries sustained from a car crash or from falling or being thrown.  It's been suggested that those types of injuries could have only been caused by falling or being thrown from at least 60 feet which was a theory dismissed by one of Russia's top forensic pathologists who determined it was very unlikely that they sustained those injuries from falling/throwing. Violent indeed, but accidental? I don't believe so.
 

January 17, 2022, 04:20:41 PM
Reply #33
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GlennM


Manti, I fully agree that walking down the slope while fearing avalanche is improbable, but not illogical. I believe the footprints suggest they scattered, collected themselves and abandoned the area of the tent. I am led to understand that cutting the tent is accepted procedure in an urgent situation, since 7 to 9 hikers going out the front in a rush and not picking up boots while  in the queue isn't  practical, nor logical. I have experienced earthquakes. There is an initial panic when you halt, do nothing except register that a quake is happening. Next, comes a rush of self preservation where you put yourself in motion. This could be running out of a structure, running to a door jamb or diving under a desk. It isnt thoughtful, it is a gut response. For the hikers it would be cut the tent and get out! Why did they go to the trees? I think whatever panicked them in the first place was understood that it could happen again.
 

January 17, 2022, 05:49:53 PM
Reply #34
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Manti


I like this line of reasoning.


So whatever scared them and caused them to abandon the tent, the "unknown compelling force" as Ivanov wrote, is only a danger on the slope and not at the cedar. And they believe it to be still a danger so they don't return to the tent...


What I used to consider some of the most probable "compelling forces" are: a curious elk, a hungry bear, the cold, native hunters trying to explain something (not necessarily "don't camp on our holy mountain", maybe it was "don't camp here, rock slides are common").

Staying near a tree you can climb, to escape the elk, makes sense. Going to the forest and making a fire to keep the bear away, might be the only option. It can climb trees.If they couldn't suspend the stove, then the only escape from the cold is again a campfire in the forest.

I can't see how the natives would make them abandon their equipment in any case, so I'd rule that option out.

And then there are the new options of a tremor (Is this due to rock slides?), and the wolverine spraying the tent.A tremor might trigger an avalanche in turn, so it makes sense to retreat to the forest. But I would think if there was a tremor, we would know about it from seismological records. Maybe it was something only felt locally? Is that even possible?As for a wolverine, well explained elsewhere, the hikers avoid returning to the tent due to the smell.

All of these seem like possible options as the "compelling force" to me...


Manti, its a strange choice of words for me. Accidental but violent. and likened to injuries sustained from a car crash or from falling or being thrown.  It's been suggested that those types of injuries could have only been caused by falling or being thrown from at least 60 feet which was a theory dismissed by one of Russia's top forensic pathologists who determined it was very unlikely that they sustained those injuries from falling/throwing.
This was about Zina's injuries. Hers weren't likened to a car crash. That only applies to some of those 4 found in the ravine months later.

In case of Zina, I interpret "violent" as the opposite of a "painless" death, but it is indeed a strange choice of words.
 

January 17, 2022, 09:02:32 PM
Reply #35
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Игорь Б.


Quote
В судебной медицине принято выделять две категории смерти - насильственную и ненасильственную.

Насильственная смерть всегда обусловлена воздействием на организм человека внешних факторов (физических, химических и пр.). Насильственную смерть подразделяют на три рода: убийство, самоубийство и несчастный случай.

Ненасильственная смерть обусловлена заболеваниями, старческой дряхлостью или физическим недоразвитием.
Э. В. Туманов, Е. М. Кильдюшов, З. Ю. Соколова. СУДЕБНО-МЕДИЦИНСКАЯ ТАНАТОЛОГИЯ
https://docplayer.com/186749293-E-v-tumanov-e-m-kildyushov-z-yu-sokolova-sudebno-medicinskaya-tanatologiya.html

Quote
Основными видами насильственной смерти являются:

от механических повреждений;
от механической асфиксии;
от отравлений;
от действия крайних температур;
от действия электричества;
от изменения атмосферного давления;
от действия лучевой энергии.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D1%8C

С дятловцами произошёл несчастный случай - замерзание. Это насильственная смерть.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 09:10:30 PM by Игорь Б. »
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 
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January 29, 2022, 05:38:08 PM
Reply #36
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GlennM


The one singular truth, if also obvious is that all behavior is motivated. A corollary is that which motivated one, motivated all. It was transient, else we would know from remaining clues. This is why the tremor( impending snowslip) seems reasonable to me. With respect.