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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Ground tremor  (Read 2207 times)

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January 09, 2022, 10:15:45 PM
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GlennM


After reading 1079 I was confused. How can a fallen tree crush hikers when they were camped on a barren slope? Why didn't the tree damage the tent or its contents? Instead, I think all of them were frightened by a ground tremor relating to cracking ice. They performed a textbook evacuation of the tent and scattered in the snow. They regrouped and decended the slope underestimating the distance in the night They did not immediately return after scattering because the tent was ruined by cutting and they would be foolish to return a mile uphill to find their tent covered and then trek another mile again down to the forest. This would be a total of 3 trips at night in sub zero weather. They could not dismiss the source of their fright.Why go back and get your stuff only to get trapped assuming the tent could be found. A needle in a haystack? After reaching the cedar,three members had a change of heart willing to take the risk with Igor feeling most responsible, others feeling loyal. The case will be unsolved because shaking ground, cracking ice slabs or even katabatic winds are transient phenomena.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 06:39:34 AM by Teddy »
 

January 10, 2022, 01:00:25 AM
Reply #1
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Teddy

Administrator
In the book it says that the tent was not where it was found. There was no reason to be there and it couldn't been there. This is what the ridge looks like at this time of the year. Would you pitch a tent in this conditions? Also the tent allegedly withstood the winds for a month propped only on ski poles. The tent was out of their planned route.


P.S. I am changing the subject of this topic from Fallen tree? to Ground tremor, because this is really not about the fallen tree. You want to introduce your new theory, own the subject.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 06:41:35 AM by Teddy »
 
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January 10, 2022, 07:02:41 AM
Reply #2
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Игорь Б.


In the book it says that the tent was not where it was found. There was no reason to be there and it couldn't been there. This is what the ridge looks like at this time of the year. Would you pitch a tent in this conditions?
Именно из-за погодных условий палатка и оказалась там, где её нашли.

Дятловцы шли по компасу прямо на Отортен:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=65394

Остановила их низовая метель, которую видно на последних фотографиях:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=61376

Местоположение кедра подтверждает местоположение палатки, т.к. кедр находится от палатки на кратчайшей прямой, перпендикулярной линии леса:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=101106

Дятловцы видели линию леса в момент происшествия:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=102486

Инсценировка с установкой палатки исключена:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110212
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 

January 10, 2022, 07:10:11 AM
Reply #3
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Teddy

Administrator
To Игор Б. : There is no evidence that this is their last photo, hell, you can't even prove that it's from the same trek.

Кто проявлял пленки?
https://taina.li/forum/index.php?msg=348343

Ну и гениальный s777, который еще 5 лет назад задает ключевые вопросы, на мой взгляд. Цитирование:


    Я попытался собрать вместе всю информацию, касающуюся происхождения т.н. "последних фото Дятловцев" (в смысле - установка палатки, а точнее - копание ямы в снегу якобы Дятловцами якобы для установки палатки на склоне. Пишу именно так без всякой задней мысли, имхо на сегодняшний момент 100% доказательства того, что на фото именно Дятловцы именно 1.02 копают яму под установку палатки, никто не предоставил). Так вот - информации крайне мало. Если я что-то упустил или неправильно сформулировал - прошу меня извинить и добавить/исправить:

    1. Заявление Борзенкова о том, что таких фотографий в УД нет

    2. Заявление Коськина о том, что эти фотографии в УД видел Юдин

    3. Заявление Буянова о том, что впервые эту фотографию он увидел в книге УПИ (УГТУ-УПИ: Люди. Годы. Увлечения. Том I. Человек, спорт, природа./ П.И.Бартоломей, В.Ф.Богомолов, В.Н.Давыдов, Е.Г.Зиновьев (*автор-редактор интересующей нас главы 1.3: Февраль 1959 года. Дятловцы), В.Г.Карелин, В.И.Ковалев, А.В.Лебедихин, А.А.Пузанов, Б.Н.Сергеев, Р.И.Силин, С.Я.Харин, М.М.Юрганов, В.Г.Якименко. Екатеринбург: УГТУ, 1999. 324 с: ил. ISBN 5-230-06601-6; В сборе материалов и проведении интервью участвовали В.И.Гроховский, А.Ю.Яговкин, А.П.Мурзин, Г.А.Птицын, А.А.Михайлов, А.Е.Пиратинский, Н.А.Рундквист, В.И.Кочуров, Л.В.Шарапова. Фотоматериалы: В.И.Гроховский, А.П.Мурзин, Г.А.Птицын, В.И.Холостых, В.Н.Давыдов, И.Б.Ткаченко, Б.А.Черепков, А.А.Борзунов)

    4. Заявление Буянова о том, что со слов Брусницына именно Брусницын напечатал эту фотографию

    Информация об отсутствии этих фотографий в УД подтверждена Буяновым. А вот мнение Коськина лично у меня вызывает вопросы, прежде всего потому, что приведенная Юдиным опись 2-го тома содержит заверительную запись от 1996г, совпадающую с записью, опубликованной Буяновым, т.е он видел те же материалы, что и Буянов. По поводу того, что и с каких пленок мог печатать Брусницын форумчане уже высказывались. В книге УПИ действительно приведена известная фотография с подписью: "До трагедии оставались часы. Последний кадр И.Дятлова. Вечер 1 февраля 1959г", но среди многочисленных фамилий людей, предоставивших материалы и фотографии, фамилии Брусницына нет. Хотя, имхо, ноги растут от кого-то из предоставивших фотоматериалы. И, насколько я понимаю, никто к перечисленным товарищам по поводу происхождения фотографии не обращался?
    Кстати, имеется информация, что в марте 1959 какие-то фотографии распечатывали в ведомственной лаборатории Свердловской прокуратуры К.Свечникова (участница тургруппы Блинова) вместе с небезызвестным Биенко
    ( http://infodjatlov.narod.ru/MK_URAL.jpg ). Не много ли "гражданских" помогало прокуратуре в многотрудном фотоделе? Но если это так, то имхо еще больше увеличивается вероятность того, что фотографии Дятловского и иных походов вполне могли перепутаться.
 

January 10, 2022, 07:27:54 AM
Reply #4
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Игорь Б.


Плёнки проявлял студент Биенко:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=75427

У него нет никаких сомнений, что это плёнки дятловцев:
Quote
С места трагедии (следователь) Иванов прислал мне в Свердловск самолетом первую же найденную фотопленку из фотоаппарата Юрия Кривонищенко. Ее надо было срочно проявить, и я проявил ее за ночь в своей квартире и отпечатал с нее фотографии последнего дня группы - от утренних веселых сборов до вечерней установки палатки в штормовых условиях.

Кроме того, на последней фотографии хорошо опознаётся Кривонищенко по нагрудному значку слева (рядом с чёрной пуговицей).

Дятловцы опознаны и на фотографиях восхождения:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=61343
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 07:53:18 AM by Игорь Б. »
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 

January 10, 2022, 08:16:45 AM
Reply #5
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Teddy

Administrator
I know about Krivonischenko's badges, he wore them always: https://dyatlovpass.com/sports-classification
This is not his only treck: https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlov-group-members-treks#krivonischenko
Bienko is lying, there is no such negative:
"It had to be done urgently, and I developed it overnight in my apartment and printed photographs of the last day of the group - from the morning fun gatherings to the evening setting up the tent in stormy conditions." https://dyatlovpass.com/bienko

Игорь Б. before we continue anywhere with this conversation - show me a negative with the "last photo".
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 08:32:07 AM by Teddy »
 

January 10, 2022, 08:41:21 AM
Reply #6
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Игорь Б.


Говорят, что негативы потерял Кунцевич. Говорят также, что негативы, имеющиеся в Фонде не оригиналы, а фотокопии.
По этому вопросу свяжитесь с членом Фонда Саша Кан. Он что-то говорил про негативы. Это его форум:
http://sledopyt1959.mybb.ru/
Но он там редко бывает.

Меня вопрос негативов не интересует.
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 
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January 10, 2022, 10:08:36 AM
Reply #7
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Teddy

Administrator
This case is causing so much grief. Thank you for bringing new information to this forum.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 02:25:06 AM by Teddy »
 

January 10, 2022, 04:22:27 PM
Reply #8
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GlennM


Teddy, thank you for the thoughtful reply and the video. I would not shelter on that windswept slope. It seems reasonable that the hikers would walk to the tree line with the wind at their back. It seems curious that footprints of the hikers were found leaving the tent, but no prints of the three returning to the tent. Its like the Voynich manuscript, sigh!
 

January 10, 2022, 04:48:43 PM
Reply #9
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Teddy

Administrator
I thought you said you have read the book. The tent hasn't been on the slope so the three couldn't have left any footprints returning to it.
The footprints are not left by the hikers. They can preserve for a month. They are left days before the tent was found by the people who left the tent there and dragged the bodies down where they took them on first place from.
I have showed the photos of the footprints to an expert forensic traceologist and have his sworn expert opinion that these footprints are left by shod feet i.e. wearing shoes. It's in the book and the opinion is also published here in more details https://dyatlovpass.com/1079#chapter23
 

January 10, 2022, 05:40:54 PM
Reply #10
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Ziljoe


What about the statements saying the foot prints were found  bare feet or with socks?
 

January 10, 2022, 06:02:34 PM
Reply #11
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Ziljoe


FYI Teddy there's another photo of Yuri Krivonischenko on the autopsy table with his shirt raised up on to his chest. That I can't see on Dyatlovpass.com . I don't know if this new or has been missed. I thought all photos were displayed here.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 02:26:09 AM by Teddy »
 

January 11, 2022, 01:17:00 AM
Reply #12
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Teddy

Administrator
What about the statements saying the foot prints were found  bare feet or with socks?

The only testimony directly saying the footprints were barefoot was that of Chernishev:
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-88-93#91
It is impossible to tell if the tracks are left of feet in socks after being there for one month. The details of the imprint will not stand, I made experiments, the surface where the toes allegedly were visible is actually protruded upwards and blown by the wind for a month. Even if the tracks survive that long the surface would be smooth and shapeless. Look at the photos. Why aren't there any pictures of the "toes"? But there is a photo of a boot with a heel, why isn't this explained? This is catch §22, everyone that says the tracks are barefoot is because there were no tracks of other people (strangers). Why aren't these tracks examined as tracks of strangers, who says there are left by the hikers? Only speculations.

It goes like this - they had a camera, made pictures, you show it to an expert like they did with the tent and the expert says iof the tracks are barefoot or shod. Show me a photo with a toe.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 02:27:27 AM by Teddy »
 

January 11, 2022, 01:28:18 AM
Reply #13
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Teddy

Administrator
FYI Teddy there's another photo of Yuri Krivonischenko on the autopsy table with his shirt raised up on to his chest. That I can't see on Dyatlov.com . I don't know if this new or has been missed. I thought all photos were displayed here.

Yes, all photos are published there. Show me the photo in question, I am very curious now.
Post a link where I can see it.
 

January 11, 2022, 02:14:39 AM
Reply #14
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Ziljoe




I looked at some links from Igor's link sledoypt. There's a lot of new stuff on there, some of it is very detailed and has variations and a lot of on site research. I love the way russians have discussions. It's like a fight of wit!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 03:06:26 AM by Teddy »
 
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January 11, 2022, 02:58:13 AM
Reply #15
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Teddy

Administrator
Photo is added https://dyatlovpass.com/resources/340/gallery/Yuri-Krivonischenko-post-mortem-8.jpg

I have promised my sources not to disseminate post mortem photos. There are a lot more where this one came from.
I already had the site when I was given access, so I didn't see necessary to to add to what I already had. They are not for public use.
Since Игорь Б. some one has published this one I will too, but they are just bigger and more graphic. What's the use of it. I scarcely look at them, like now, you made me.
I also have more funeral photos that I haven't published. They are of the coffins.

My statement has now changed that DYATLOVPASS.COM site contains all the photos form the trek and search:
https://dyatlovpass.com/trek-photos
https://dyatlovpass.com/search-photos

Covering the eyes with the sticker is so the person is not recognized. What good does it do when you say who he is?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 06:24:58 AM by Teddy »
 

January 11, 2022, 04:17:33 AM
Reply #16
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Ziljoe


Teddy, this was from the site Igor b recommended that you look at . It is not his site , Igor b did not publish this. I thought you wanted to see it? I would say all photos are of interest , there could be photos missing that have more information about the hike? I am supprised you say there are a lot more....in fact I think you and this site is quoted as resource too, in a positive way.

I thought this would of been helpful and I found it by accident by following the links to a discussion about explaining injuries. I have no idea about the eyes being covered in the photo, this was already done , maybe the other person who posted it thought it was respectful to cover the eyes of the dead as the same was done for the other photos that you already have, I don't think the sticker  was to hide the person's identity.

Teddy from what little I have read on the site that Igor b suggested to you  regarding negatives of the alleged final photo.further down this thread, it would seem you are respected in conversations within in it. I was trying to help.

Like here, they have many ideas and theories.
 

January 11, 2022, 06:27:55 AM
Reply #17
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Teddy

Administrator
You don't cover the eyes out of respect but show their groin. This is hypocritical.
I am not saying anyone has done anything wrong. Things I decided not to post appear elsewhere so I have to catch up.
 

January 11, 2022, 07:20:34 AM
Reply #18
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Teddy

Administrator
Please post the link with the post mortem photos you found. I want to see what else is there.
 

January 11, 2022, 07:58:41 AM
Reply #19
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ElizabethHarris


Such a great point, Teddy. Toeprints would be nice. Also, I always hear conflicting stories about the footprints directly outside the tent. I've seen/heard accounts that the hikers burst from the tent and ran for their lives but the precise alignment of the footprints definitely does not show a mad exodus from the tent but a slow and calm departure. Some of the theories on here seem to omit the stride of those prints. Am I reading the photos wrong??
 

January 11, 2022, 10:08:37 AM
Reply #20
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Teddy

Administrator
mad exodus from the tent but a slow and calm departure. Some of the theories on here seem to omit the stride of those prints. Am I reading the photos wrong??

You got it right, they were walking calmly away from the tent, abreast, in a earshot from each other. What is most disturbing for me is that they never looked back, didn't turn around, at least not for as long as the tracks were preserved, which was 500 m or 0.3 mile.
 
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January 11, 2022, 10:09:55 AM
Reply #21
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Ziljoe


The link is in reply#6 from Igor b. I can't remember which sub link I found it in. I was way down rabbit holes . It was a thread about the deaths at the ceder.
 

January 11, 2022, 10:19:13 AM
Reply #22
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Teddy

Administrator
I can be in one rabbit hole at a time. If someone sees photos that I do not have on the site, please let me know like Ziljoe did.
This site is a collective work. Thank you all for your support.
 

January 11, 2022, 11:12:05 AM
Reply #23
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Ziljoe


I can be in one rabbit hole at a time. If someone sees photos that I do not have on the site, please let me know like Ziljoe did.
This site is a collective work. Thank you all for your support.
.

http://sledopyt1959.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=761#p29772

The photos should be on this page Teddy.
 

January 11, 2022, 11:17:52 AM
Reply #24
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Ziljoe


After reading 1079 I was confused. How can a fallen tree crush hikers when they were camped on a barren slope? Why didn't the tree damage the tent or its contents? Instead, I think all of them were frightened by a ground tremor relating to cracking ice. They performed a textbook evacuation of the tent and scattered in the snow. They regrouped and decended the slope underestimating the distance in the night They did not immediately return after scattering because the tent was ruined by cutting and they would be foolish to return a mile uphill to find their tent covered and then trek another mile again down to the forest. This would be a total of 3 trips at night in sub zero weather. They could not dismiss the source of their fright.Why go back and get your stuff only to get trapped assuming the tent could be found. A needle in a haystack? After reaching the cedar,three members had a change of heart willing to take the risk with Igor feeling most responsible, others feeling loyal. The case will be unsolved because shaking ground, cracking ice slabs or even katabatic winds are transient phenomena.

Sorry Glenn. We have messed your thread up . Apologies . Some ground tremor is an idea.
 

January 11, 2022, 11:32:59 AM
Reply #25
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Teddy

Administrator
Sorry Glenn. We have messed your thread up . Apologies . Some ground tremor is an idea.

This we did. My apologies too.
 

January 11, 2022, 01:12:02 PM
Reply #26
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ElizabethHarris


Thank you, Teddy. 'Disturbing' is the best word for this entire case and all the horrifying details that accompany it.
 

January 11, 2022, 01:34:51 PM
Reply #27
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Игорь Б.


I have showed the photos of the footprints to an expert forensic traceologist and have his sworn expert opinion that these footprints are left by shod feet i.e. wearing shoes.
Этого не может быть. Заключение эксперта легко опровергнуть.
Если бы следы были оставлены ногами в обуви, то это бы стало главной сенсацией поисков, о которой говорили бы все.
Действительно, как так? Вся обувь была найдена в палатке (за исключением трёх валенок), все дятловцы без обуви (за исключением Тибо и Слободина), а все следы оставлены ногами в обуви?
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 

January 11, 2022, 01:38:14 PM
Reply #28
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Игорь Б.


The only testimony directly saying the footprints were barefoot was that of Chernishev:
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-88-93#91
Нет. Об отпечатках пальцев в следах свидетельствует и Согрин:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=98547
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 

January 11, 2022, 01:47:54 PM
Reply #29
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Игорь Б.


The footprints are not left by the hikers. They cannot(?) preserve for a month. They are left days before the tent was found...
Кто-то из поисковиков рассказывал, что следы на снегу сохранялись очень долго, до апреля. Их наблюдали разные смены поисковиков.
И тому есть примеры в истории:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=97992

P.S. Вспомнил, кто рассказывал о длительной сохранности следов - Карелин на конференции 2017:
"Действительно, следы-ледышки были. Они месяц "просидели" и после нас ещё были.
Я не знаю когда они исчезли. Может быть в апреле исчезли."
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=75402

Следы сохранились так долго потому, что обледенели.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 02:37:35 PM by Игорь Б. »
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286