Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: eurocentric on June 02, 2023, 04:26:46 AM
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Following the death of the hikers the authorities banned visitors, outsiders, from the area, maintaining this for a number of years.
When Yuri Yudin and his group travelled there in 1963 to affix a memorial plaque to boot rock they broke this convention and risked arrest.
But what was behind this ban, why was the area sealed off to outsiders, and for such a long time?
And how does this detail fit into leading theories?
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There should have been appropriate signage.
(https://i.ibb.co/Nm5sg20/combine-images-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yYtXmFz)
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The KGB sign.. lol2
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Seriously though: Was the area really closed? Or was there just a reluctance on the part of the university sports club to approve trips through there? If it was closed, did that only apply to Russians, and not Mansi? If that's the case, that rules out a lot of possibilities such as radioactive or other contamination, unsafe drinking water, missile testing grounds, etc. I can only think of 2 that remain:
Caution: Hunting grounds! Your tent might be mistaken for a bear
or
Warning: Dangerous wildlife. Only enter if in possession of rifles
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I'd say it rules those things in.
The authorities were said to have closed the area to visitors, tourists, that's why Yuri Yudin was effectively trespassing, and they warned the Mansi, who they probably didn't care about as news of any deaths would be unlikely to reach the outside world, not to drink from the streams or to let their animals do so, and maintained this advisement for 4 or more years.
All of which, against the backdrop of the Mansi males being taken ill around the time the Dyatlovs died, and the death of some of their deer, which were eaten by wolves (who later did not return to predate upon the hikers bodies, across weeks), may suggest an environmental event, and the common route it would tend to affect all these people and animals would usually be via the drinking water.
There'd be no need to close the area down if a snow slab slip or avalanche occurred (the official inquiry), at least not in summer, or to do so if Ivdelians had engaged in a cover-up over a tree collapse or after some KGB had decided to murder a group of people there when they'd hoped to stage it as hypothermia, indeed doing so would make it all the more suspicious. And a random event like a wolverine, stampeding deer or rutting elk would not require this overcautious approach either.
An argument could be made that had aliens or yeti been suspected then the authorities treated it like an Area 51, that is for those who believe is such esoterica, for which there is not a shred of evidence anywhere else.
It's interesting to take details like this and apply them to leading theories, I think, in order to roadtest them. It's why I keep returning to some sort of toxin, a medical emergency in the tent, heading to the ravine, taking cans of milk, and the authorities realising the danger and wishing to keep others away until it has passed or any further deaths of outsiders who never returned home would only alert people to what was going on there.
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I'd say it rules those things in.
The authorities were said to have closed the area to visitors, tourists, that's why Yuri Yudin was effectively trespassing, and they warned the Mansi, who they probably didn't care about as news of any deaths would be unlikely to reach the outside world, not to drink from the streams or to let their animals do so, and maintained this advisement for 4 or more years.
All of which, against the backdrop of the Mansi males being taken ill around the time the Dyatlovs died, and the death of some of their deer, which were eaten by wolves (who later did not return to predate upon the hikers bodies, across weeks), may suggest an environmental event, and the common route it would tend to affect all these people and animals would usually be via the drinking water.
There'd be no need to close the area down if a snow slab slip or avalanche occurred (the official inquiry), at least not in summer, or to do so if Ivdelians had engaged in a cover-up over a tree collapse or after some KGB had decided to murder a group of people there when they'd hoped to stage it as hypothermia, indeed doing so would make it all the more suspicious. And a random event like a wolverine, stampeding deer or rutting elk would not require this overcautious approach either.
An argument could be made that had aliens or yeti been suspected then the authorities treated it like an Area 51, that is for those who believe is such esoterica, for which there is not a shred of evidence anywhere else.
It's interesting to take details like this and apply them to leading theories, I think, in order to roadtest them. It's why I keep returning to some sort of toxin, a medical emergency in the tent, heading to the ravine, taking cans of milk, and the authorities realising the danger and wishing to keep others away until it has passed or any further deaths of outsiders who never returned home would only alert people to what was going on there.
I'm sure I read that the area being closed was a myth, or at least nothing to do with DPI, I've being trying to find it. All I can remember was that it made sense and I shut that avenue down in my own mind.
I can't find the explanation at the moment but it seemed sensible from memory.
I'll try to find it, so many forums and opinions. Sigh.
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Because Ziljoe is never sure of anything I have to cover all bases.
(https://i.ibb.co/wgn0N2d/2-to.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZXQL6bf)
(https://i.ibb.co/q9qMw43/1-to.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rM8GJLR)
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Thank you Eurocentric:0). lol4
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I believe that there is numerous accounts of people still being in that area.
There is a tourist report of the Moscow group, which in the summer of 1959, quite calmly and having written off in advance with the local Ivdel sports authorities, went through quite a lot there.
There is evidence from Yakimenko that they came across the remains of food deliveries to detachments of geologists or cartographers .
Mansi, as they drove their herds of deer along the centuries-old distillation paths as they always had.
I think it's just a media myth that the area was closed.
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Interesting about the geologists & cartographers, but perhaps nothing would be permitted to stand in the way of what may predominantly have been a Cold War effort to locate uranium deposits.
I'm trying to find where I've read that the place was closed, and where the Mansi were warned about the streams, both of which are likely to have been at this site, though possibly more so in this forum. All I can pathetically offer right now is Wikipedia (yes, I know) stating the area was closed for 3 years after (the 'outcome' mentioned in the box on the right).
The following photo shows tree clearance occurring on a slope near a river, this photo is part of a collection taken from the air during the search operation but is not at this site (Hibina files resource). It could have been a straightforward logging enterprise, using the river to transport wood or a magnetic anomaly sat there requiring clearance, but either way had industrial toxins, such as explosives used to blow up tree stumps, entered the water, then that water might not be considered safe for some years after and it would render the area out-of-bounds to those who could not be forewarned.
(https://i.ibb.co/Ws10BMW/005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M9LfPtD)
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Interesting about the geologists & cartographers, but perhaps nothing would be permitted to stand in the way of what may predominantly have been a Cold War effort to locate uranium deposits.
I'm trying to find where I've read that the place was closed, and where the Mansi were warned about the streams, both of which are likely to have been at this site, though possibly more so in this forum. All I can pathetically offer right now is Wikipedia (yes, I know) stating the area was closed for 3 years after (the 'outcome' mentioned in the box on the right).
The following photo shows tree clearance occurring on a slope near a river, this photo is part of a collection taken from the air during the search operation but is not at this site (Hibina files resource). It could have been a straightforward logging enterprise, using the river to transport wood or a magnetic anomaly sat there requiring clearance, but either way had industrial toxins, such as explosives used to blow up tree stumps, entered the water, then that water might not be considered safe for some years after and it would render the area out-of-bounds to those who could not be forewarned.
(https://i.ibb.co/Ws10BMW/005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M9LfPtD)
Here is the 1959 summer trip which seems mostly rafting . Unfortunately it's photo copies in russian.
http://www.tlib.ru/doc.aspx?id=29782&page=1
There are a number of interesting photos in the file though. Same large back packs etc chopping trees and cooking.
It was certainly stated in various places that it was closed. I think it's another media myth that gained traction and no one challenged the fact. There may have been an area closed off for some separate reason like you mention and someone exaggerated the fact to fit with DPI. We are talking about a large area. Half truths most likely.
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Was no ban on visiting this place as such.
Sverdlovsk city tourist club and tourist section UPI for three years just did not sanction the routes in this area, did not take responsibility for those who went there by their own decision, and did not register these hikes.
Just in case. To cover mine asses if something goes wrong again.
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Here is the 1959 summer trip which seems mostly rafting . Unfortunately it's photo copies in russian.
http://www.tlib.ru/doc.aspx?id=29782&page=1
This students of the Moscow Civil Engineering Institut. They passed through Holat-Syahl and Otorten in September 1959. In the village of Vizhay they took copies of the forest survey map from the same forester Rempel as Dyatlov. There is not a single word in the report about the dead group. The complete impression that they don't know anything about this case.
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Was no ban on visiting this place as such.
Sverdlovsk city tourist club and tourist section UPI for three years just did not sanction the routes in this area, did not take responsibility for those who went there by their own decision, and did not register these hikes.
Just in case. To cover mine asses if something goes wrong again.
It's been going around in circles for the last time. It's sad.
The same thing, in virtually the same words, was already said here about five years ago.
You can look it up on my own letters.
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Was no ban on visiting this place as such.
Sverdlovsk city tourist club and tourist section UPI for three years just did not sanction the routes in this area, did not take responsibility for those who went there by their own decision, and did not register these hikes.
Just in case. To cover mine asses if something goes wrong again.
&
Here is the 1959 summer trip which seems mostly rafting . Unfortunately it's photo copies in russian.
http://www.tlib.ru/doc.aspx?id=29782&page=1
This students of the Moscow Civil Engineering InstituThesete. They passed through Holat-Syahl and Otorten in September 1959. In the village of Vizhay they took copies of the forest survey map from the same forester Rempel as Dyatlov. There is not a single word in the report about the dead group. The complete impression that they don't know anything about this case.
Welcome to the forum.
Then the conclusion of that is there was a ban of sorts, but only confirmatively from one educational authority, who didn't want to take responsibility should history repeat itself.
Either the Muscovites knew nothing of the Dyatlovs fate, even though it's hard to imagine Vizhayans not mentioning this, or their hike was not considered as seasonally dangerous, or they deliberately left out all mention of the Dyatlovs so that if challenged for why they had visited the area they could play the innocent.
I don't know if it was Google translate which came up with the Germanic mine asses or that was your own choice of phrase, but I enjoyed it either way. grin1
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Welcome to the forum.
Thank you. thanky1
even though it's hard to imagine Vizhayans not mentioning this
It's hard to imagine now. But in 1959 there were still fresh memories of those times when the discussion of all kinds of accidents could be regarded by individual, exemplary vigilant citizens as spreading rumors discrediting Soviet reality, which could cost several years of life on the other side of the barbed wire.
At that time it was not customary to chat to strangers about all sorts of unpleasant occurrences.
or that was your own choice of phrase
Own. I am sure that things should be called by their proper names, and the images used should be memorable. : -))
But there's a problem with cyber-translators. They do whatever they want.
The way I see it, in this context it should be: "their asses," but for some reason google, yandex, and DeepL stubbornly write "mine", although back, into Russian, they translate correctly - "svoi"
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I think everybody who desired to view or visit this place - did it during 3 months of spring 1959.
It is not a seashore with aquaparks...
So, new people appeared only after 3 years or later...
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I think everybody who desired to view or visit this place - did it during 3 months of spring 1959.
It is not a seahrore with aquaparks...
So, new people appeared only after 3 years or later...
You think or know? It would seem the Mansi and tourists still went there by documentation.