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January 12, 2021, 05:46:22 PM
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ceciliah


Hi Everyone!

New to the forum and the site. I came across the Dyatlov Pass incident several years ago when I was brushing up on the incident of the boy scout troupe in Arizona (U.S) that had perished when I stumbled onto this. Recently I have started looking further into the incident and came across the Expedition Unknown episode which then took me on over to this amazing website (really all of the work and effort and knowledge that has been compiled here is incredible). I am still working my way through the articles, facts, figures and the like and have come to a pause on the initial article on Zolotaryov's exhumation. Now a couple of things (and this could be due to not having read through everything yet so be gentle with me please) stand out to me about the whole incident.

- Slobodin's death. The whole positioning of his body being face down. I understand that regardless of the amount of clothing they had on, the conditions were probably absolutely frigid, but generally, I think even if he had say, stumbled and fallen face first in the snow, he wouldn't have stayed that way for long. There is just something odd about it. Having fallen in snow before though under very different circumstances the first thing I would do would be at least roll onto my back to get my face out of it. Thoughts on this? Meaningful or holds no further investigation?

- Has there been any investigation of the timeline post leaving the tent? Did they stop in the cropping of Cedar trees first, attempt to make a fire and keep warm and when that was evidently not working did some attempt to head back to camp while others ventured further? Or had Slobodin, Dyatlov and Kolmogorova been with the four that had perished near the makeshift Den and headed back to the tent to obtain medical supplies? I am just wondering if there is there any idea of their movements in that regard or if it bears any weight of looking at.

- I believe I read that many of the tree branches had been cut, but I also keep noting that a knife wasn't found with any of the victims. Yet, the makeshift den could be the reason for the cut trees. It just seems weird to find one without the other.

- Why did the four leave the makeshift den? What would have been the purpose of them leaving it at all before they could clearly see where they were and what they could do from that point? In addition, the missing soft bits and wounds seem a bit odd to me being that they were buried under so much snow for so long. Taking in account that it could have been some small critter or rodent, it would be odd that you wouldn't also see evidence of nesting as well, but in those temperatures would it be likely there would be many animals out in general? (I am unfamiliar with that aspect in the subject environment). And if there were animals that would have done the physical damage specifically to the eyes and tongue, wouldn't they have gone after the rest of their bodies for sustenance?

*** I am attempting to be as respectful as possible to the victims and their families with making direct statements and questions. These are just weird red flags that have popped up in my head as I have begun my descent through the massive quantities of information that this website has and would appreciate any feedback, thoughts, or answers that this community may give me.

**** If anyone knows how to set up your avatar photo by the URL. Please explain how to do that to me because I am at a loss and have never come across that before.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 06:27:56 PM by ceciliah »
 

January 12, 2021, 07:21:33 PM
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mk


Hi ceciliah--welcome!  Glad you found your way here.  It's an amazing collection of information, to be sure.  Seems there is always more to discover.

Slobodin's death. The whole positioning of his body being face down... I think even if he had say, stumbled and fallen face first in the snow, he wouldn't have stayed that way for long. There is just something odd about it. Having fallen in snow before though under very different circumstances the first thing I would do would be at least roll onto my back to get my face out of it. Thoughts on this? Meaningful or holds no further investigation?

At a guess, I'd say it indicates that he was leaning forward to climb uphill and passed out and fell forward.  I can imagine being exhausted and falling forward into the snow, and then trying to rise to my hands and knees to gather my strength.  If there were no strength left, or if overcome by disorientation, I might allow myself to sink back onto my stomach.

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Has there been any investigation of the timeline post leaving the tent? Did they stop in the cropping of Cedar trees first, attempt to make a fire and keep warm and when that was evidently not working did some attempt to head back to camp while others ventured further? Or had Slobodin, Dyatlov and Kolmogorova been with the four that had perished near the makeshift Den and headed back to the tent to obtain medical supplies? I am just wondering if there is there any idea of their movements in that regard or if it bears any weight of looking at.

I believe different persons have different ideas about this.  The general idea is that the ones who lived longer used the clothing of the ones who died earlier, so there are some guesses about the first and the last to die based on that.

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I believe I read that many of the tree branches had been cut, but I also keep noting that a knife wasn't found with any of the victims. Yet, the makeshift den could be the reason for the cut trees. It just seems weird to find one without the other.

Rustem is recorded to have had a pocket knife in the pocket of the ski pants he was wearing.  There may have been another knife with the bodies, but I'm not sure.  I believe Maslennikov says that there were knife marks on smaller trees around the cedar, as though they had tried to cut something and gave up.  Dry/dead cedar branches were broken, not live ones, for firewood as far as I can tell.  It is reported that in the snow den were "14 fir tree and 1 birch tops" as flooring. 

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Why did the four leave the makeshift den? What would have been the purpose of them leaving it at all before they could clearly see where they were and what they could do from that point? In addition, the missing soft bits and wounds seem a bit odd to me being that they were buried under so much snow for so long. Taking in account that it could have been some small critter or rodent, it would be odd that you wouldn't also see evidence of nesting as well, but in those temperatures would it be likely there would be many animals out in general? (I am unfamiliar with that aspect in the subject environment). And if there were animals that would have done the physical damage specifically to the eyes and tongue, wouldn't they have gone after the rest of their bodies for sustenance?
Well, yes.  You will find that debated quite a bit on this forum.  The case files state that the bodies of the ravine 4 were in a state of decomposition when they were found.  It was May and they were in a stream of running water.  Lyuda, particularly, was positioned with her face downward in the water and her head against the current of the stream.  I feel sure that this is the reason for her missing features, but you will find others here who have different ideas.

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These are just weird red flags that have popped up in my head as I have begun my descent through the massive quantities of information...
  There are about a thousand red flags in this case, it seems.  We all keep helping each other sort through them, disagree about them, and go back to working again.

Quote
If anyone knows how to set up your avatar photo by the URL. Please explain how to do that to me because I am at a loss and have never come across that before.
  I think you have to upload a picture to something like Photobucket and then, from there, you get a url to use for your avatar. Obviously I haven't done this.
 

January 12, 2021, 11:28:11 PM
Reply #2
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Teddy

Administrator
**** If anyone knows how to set up your avatar photo by the URL. Please explain how to do that to me because I am at a loss and have never come across that before.

Welcome,
How to upload an avatar: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=552.0

I will answer all your questions on Feb 1st, 2021. I am coming out with a book that will shed light on all your points.

 

January 13, 2021, 09:16:27 AM
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ceciliah


@ MK - Bare with me, I am still getting the hang of the forum

Slobodin - I can understand how in extreme exhaustion one could just collapse, but generally people who are experienced hikers or outdoorsmen know that keeping your face off of something cold would save your nose so to speak.  I could be missing it upon initial skimming through the reports, but I don't see any reference (even visible) of frostbite to the parts of his face that one would generally see if someone collapsed face first into the snow and stayed there for a long period of time. Just another weird aspect of this case though.


Movements after leaving tent - I can agree with the theory of the clothing of those that had succumbed to death being used by those still alive in the party. That would make sense. What intrigues me about the movements is that the three party members who were theorized to be heading back to the tent and the four that were found near the makeshift den were all fairly clothed which is where the movements and intention behind them are confusing to me. Then again, will we ever know what was going on through their heads that night/morning?

Ravine - The decomp due to the running water is totally solid. If we had the forensic medical advances then as we do now I am sure we would be able to tell a lot more about their sustained physical injuries to the soft tissues and if they were before or after their passing. The other question here for me, would be Dubinina, was she attempting to climb out? Did she slide down?


** It really appears that way. I appreciate all of the feedback and additional information as I know it is going to take quite a bit of time to read through all the past and current information not only on the site but also within the forum. Thank you for your help with the photo upload, I figured it would be something along those lines.

@ Teddy - I cannot wait to read it when it comes out!! Is it going to come out digitally or just in print? Please let me know whenever you have a moment.
 

January 13, 2021, 09:25:47 AM
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Teddy

Administrator
@ Teddy - I cannot wait to read it when it comes out!! Is it going to come out digitally or just in print? Please let me know whenever you have a moment.

Digital and print, Russian and English.
 

January 13, 2021, 01:41:59 PM
Reply #5
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mk


@ MK - Bare with me, I am still getting the hang of the forum

Slobodin - I can understand how in extreme exhaustion one could just collapse, but generally people who are experienced hikers or outdoorsmen know that keeping your face off of something cold would save your nose so to speak.  I could be missing it upon initial skimming through the reports, but I don't see any reference (even visible) of frostbite to the parts of his face that one would generally see if someone collapsed face first into the snow and stayed there for a long period of time. Just another weird aspect of this case though.

Does one get frostbite if one dies when sinking into the snow?  Do you have to be alive to get frostbite? I actually don't know.
 

January 13, 2021, 06:43:42 PM
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RidgeWatcher


Frostbite is destruction to the living cells on an intracellular and extracellular level. Yes, you have to be alive to experience frostbite but not particularly conscious.
 

January 30, 2021, 10:24:09 PM
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Manti


Welcome!

Regarding Rustem,

I have read about something called terminal burrowing behaviour in hypothermia victims. This happens in the late stages and perhaps can drive sufferers to try to dig themselves into snow or even the  ground. In any case it leads to loss of consciousness at some point, but people can still turn perhaps, similar to how we do it while asleep. So the final position he was found in might not be meaningful.


I should also mention that Teddy's book is now out! I haven't read it yet, but another thing I wanted to suggest is the case files, this is the closest we get to "first hand" information about the incident, and there are autopsies included and it looks like even back then they had a pretty good idea which injuries were in vivo and which are post mortem.