Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Loose}{Cannon on January 16, 2023, 11:21:52 AM
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What type of injuries do you suppose can result from a fall like this…. hitting multiple branches on the way down and god knows what on the ground?
Are we certain this didn’t happen? If so, is it possible an injured person was moved to the ravine?
I could have made this video an hour long but I’ll spare you the cringe…. lol.
https://youtu.be/uOzBKvYTSu8
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What type of injuries do you suppose can result from a fall like this…. hitting multiple branches on the way down and god knows what on the ground?
Are we certain this didn’t happen? If so, is it possible an injured person was moved to the ravine?
I could have made this video an hour long but I’ll spare you the cringe…. lol.
https://youtu.be/uOzBKvYTSu8
Одна и принципиальная ошибка. Нужно то самое дерево. Оно называется сибирская сосна - кедр.
Разумеется - если постараться, то упасть можно с любого дерева.
Кедр характеризуется тем, что у него - очень густая крона. Это хорошо видно на фото с поисков.
У нас в Кузбассе - этих кедров как Донов Педров в Бразилии. Лазаем по ним с детства. Национальное развлечение.
Я будучи подростком - лазала по кедрам. Сложновато с него так рухнуть как с дуба. Если хорошая реакция - то за что-нибудь по пути полета: ухватишься. Ну если жить охота.
One fundamental mistake. You need the same tree. It is called Siberian pine - cedar.
Of course - if you try, you can fall from any tree.
Cedar is characterized by the fact that it has a very dense crown. This is clearly seen in the photo from the search.
In Kuzbass we have these cedars like Donov Pedrov in Brazil. We've been climbing them since childhood. national entertainment.
As a teenager, I climbed cedars. It's hard to fall off of him like an oak tree. If the reaction is good, then something along the way of the flight: you will grab it. Well, if you want to live.
https://z-lines.ru/kedr-sibirskij.html
(https://z-lines.ru/img/work/catalog/a_1882_460.JPG)
П.С. У нас есть тенденция садить в своих усадьбах - кедры. Ну как если бы - в других странах садили например дуб или сакуру.
P.S. We have a tendency to plant cedars in our estates. Well, as if - in other countries they planted, for example, oak or sakura.
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I see how this affected his shortcomings! It is not for nothing that arborists carrymso much equipment. It would be folly od desperation to induce someone to climb snow covered branches. For what? Wood? Reconnaissance? Certainly, there is little to be gained in such activity.
I can hear it now. The hikers saw a distant threat. They left the tent right away to prevent detainment or worse. At the cedar, a very small warming fire was made. Some one or two volunteered to be lookouts. It did not end well for them. The rest hid in a snow cave. Later, three tried to regain the tent. All died after being found out, beaten and otherwise stranded.
Dead men tell no tales. It will be interesting see where this thread goes.
.
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What type of injuries do you suppose can result from a fall like this…. hitting multiple branches on the way down and god knows what on the ground?
Are we certain this didn’t happen? If so, is it possible an injured person was moved to the ravine?
I could have made this video an hour long but I’ll spare you the cringe…. lol.
https://youtu.be/uOzBKvYTSu8
Одна и принципиальная ошибка. Нужно то самое дерево. Оно называется сибирская сосна - кедр.
Разумеется - если постараться, то упасть можно с любого дерева.
Кедр характеризуется тем, что у него - очень густая крона. Это хорошо видно на фото с поисков.
У нас в Кузбассе - этих кедров как Донов Педров в Бразилии. Лазаем по ним с детства. Национальное развлечение.
Я будучи подростком - лазала по кедрам. Сложновато с него так рухнуть как с дуба. Если хорошая реакция - то за что-нибудь по пути полета: ухватишься. Ну если жить охота.
One fundamental mistake. You need the same tree. It is called Siberian pine - cedar.
Of course - if you try, you can fall from any tree.
Cedar is characterized by the fact that it has a very dense crown. This is clearly seen in the photo from the search.
In Kuzbass we have these cedars like Donov Pedrov in Brazil. We've been climbing them since childhood. national entertainment.
As a teenager, I climbed cedars. It's hard to fall off of him like an oak tree. If the reaction is good, then something along the way of the flight: you will grab it. Well, if you want to live.
https://z-lines.ru/kedr-sibirskij.html
(https://z-lines.ru/img/work/catalog/a_1882_460.JPG)
П.С. У нас есть тенденция садить в своих усадьбах - кедры. Ну как если бы - в других странах садили например дуб или сакуру.
P.S. We have a tendency to plant cedars in our estates. Well, as if - in other countries they planted, for example, oak or sakura.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=78.msg17874#msg17874
Slightly different from the picture you post, but I’ll bite.
I don’t care what tree you fall from, injures are fairly certain. I just saw a news clip where someone died as a result of a tree fall. I understand climbing trees is a fun and entertaining thing to do and zi would wager this behavior is not specialized to russia. I myself snapped my arm in half falling from a tree. 😉
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Well I hope your arm recovered without any lastng problems. I would guess fractures of the arm would be the most likely injury, but if you're hitting all the branches from a great height then there's the potential for all sorts of injuries, including head, chest and spine. Do you think one or all of the 3 badly injured fell from the tree?
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Well I hope your arm recovered without any lastng problems. I would guess fractures of the arm would be the most likely injury, but if you're hitting all the branches from a great height then there's the potential for all sorts of injuries, including head, chest and spine. Do you think one or all of the 3 badly injured fell from the tree?
No idea…. I’m simply showing its a possibility. We know they were climbing the tree and they snapped off rather large diameter branches. I would say a fall scenario is probable.
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And then there is the guy who tries to catch him.
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https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=78.msg17874#msg17874
Slightly different from the picture you post, but I’ll bite.
I don’t care what tree you fall from, injures are fairly certain. I just saw a news clip where someone died as a result of a tree fall. I understand climbing trees is a fun and entertaining thing to do and zi would wager this behavior is not specialized to russia. I myself snapped my arm in half falling from a tree. 😉
Так внизу под деревом - был снег. Приличный такой сугроб. Если бы кто-нибудь падал - то осталась бы явно различимая яма.
Comprende?
So below under the tree - there was snow. Such a decent snowdrift. If someone fell, then a clearly distinguishable hole would remain.
Comprende?
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https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=78.msg17874#msg17874
Slightly different from the picture you post, but I’ll bite.
I don’t care what tree you fall from, injures are fairly certain. I just saw a news clip where someone died as a result of a tree fall. I understand climbing trees is a fun and entertaining thing to do and zi would wager this behavior is not specialized to russia. I myself snapped my arm in half falling from a tree. 😉
Так внизу под деревом - был снег. Приличный такой сугроб. Если бы кто-нибудь падал - то осталась бы явно различимая яма.
Comprende?
So below under the tree - there was snow. Such a decent snowdrift. If someone fell, then a clearly distinguishable hole would remain.
Comprende?
We must be looking at two different sets of pictures of the cedar location from the search. No deep snow drift, in fact it appears to be quite trampled to me. How about that partially burned log… bet it wouldn’t feel good to land on that sucker. shock1
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https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=78.msg17874#msg17874
Slightly different from the picture you post, but I’ll bite.
I don’t care what tree you fall from, injures are fairly certain. I just saw a news clip where someone died as a result of a tree fall. I understand climbing trees is a fun and entertaining thing to do and zi would wager this behavior is not specialized to russia. I myself snapped my arm in half falling from a tree. 😉
Так внизу под деревом - был снег. Приличный такой сугроб. Если бы кто-нибудь падал - то осталась бы явно различимая яма.
Comprende?
So below under the tree - there was snow. Such a decent snowdrift. If someone fell, then a clearly distinguishable hole would remain.
Comprende?
We must be looking at two different sets of pictures of the cedar location from the search. No deep snow drift, in fact it appears to be quite trampled to me. How about that partially burned log… bet it wouldn’t feel good to land on that sucker. shock1
Ну полметра снежной подушки там точно было. А это уже - мягкое приземление. Чтобы попасть на карягу, упомянутую Вами - это надо целиться специально. Выломан кедр - не над нею. Вообще его наверное не ломали - просто пытались стряхнуть с веток снег, чтоб он не заливал костер. А потом решили - что проще обломать ветки и тогда снегу не на чем будет скапливаться.
Well, half a meter of snow cushion was definitely there. And this is a soft landing. To get on the karyag mentioned by you, you need to aim specifically. The cedar is broken - not above it. In general, they probably didn’t break it - they just tried to shake off the snow from the branches so that it would not flood the fire. And then they decided that it would be easier to break off the branches and then the snow would have nothing to accumulate on.
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https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=78.msg17874#msg17874
Slightly different from the picture you post, but I’ll bite.
I don’t care what tree you fall from, injures are fairly certain. I just saw a news clip where someone died as a result of a tree fall. I understand climbing trees is a fun and entertaining thing to do and zi would wager this behavior is not specialized to russia. I myself snapped my arm in half falling from a tree. 😉
Так внизу под деревом - был снег. Приличный такой сугроб. Если бы кто-нибудь падал - то осталась бы явно различимая яма.
Comprende?
So below under the tree - there was snow. Such a decent snowdrift. If someone fell, then a clearly distinguishable hole would remain.
Comprende?
We must be looking at two different sets of pictures of the cedar location from the search. No deep snow drift, in fact it appears to be quite trampled to me. How about that partially burned log… bet it wouldn’t feel good to land on that sucker. shock1
Ну полметра снежной подушки там точно было. А это уже - мягкое приземление. Чтобы попасть на карягу, упомянутую Вами - это надо целиться специально. Выломан кедр - не над нею. Вообще его наверное не ломали - просто пытались стряхнуть с веток снег, чтоб он не заливал костер. А потом решили - что проще обломать ветки и тогда снегу не на чем будет скапливаться.
Well, half a meter of snow cushion was definitely there. And this is a soft landing. To get on the karyag mentioned by you, you need to aim specifically. The cedar is broken - not above it. In general, they probably didn’t break it - they just tried to shake off the snow from the branches so that it would not flood the fire. And then they decided that it would be easier to break off the branches and then the snow would have nothing to accumulate on.
I uh…. yeah I got nothin. bigjoke
I have to believe it…. Im looking right at it! lol1
Half a meter is knee hight. Show me a picture of searchers at the cedar up to their knee and Ill show you a unicorn. I think its well known they climbed said tree. The fire wouldn’t even classify as a fire in my book and there’s a good size chunky log to land on. Snowflake limb shaking. lol2
wow …. its kinda like ‘wow’ only backwards.
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I uh…. yeah I got nothin. bigjoke
I have to believe it…. Im looking right at it! lol1
Half a meter is knee hight. Show me a picture of searchers at the cedar up to their knee and Ill show you a unicorn. I think its well known they climbed said tree. The fire wouldn’t even classify as a fire in my book and there’s a good size chunky log to land on. Snowflake limb shaking. lol2
wow …. its kinda like ‘wow’ only backwards.
Экий Вы несерьезный. А я ведь - рассчитывала высоту снега под кедром. Было дело. Брала сводки осадков по Ивделю. Исходила из пропорции. Как раз по колено выходило. Точно могли бы сказать поисковики. Никому в голову не пришло промерить уровень снега у кедра. Можно спросить Алексеенкова. Он там по зиме топтался с Борзенковым.
Полметра - там определенно было. О, вспомнила: Сунгоркин же как раз под кедром ходит, когда Курьяков выезжал на склон 1079. Надо видео поискать и впечатления. Насколько там глубоко в части снега.
Вся беда в том, что у нас со снегом и падением на него с высоты - нет проблем. Мы в детстве в виде забавы прыгали в сугробы с крыш невысоких домов. Полметра подушки - это синяков набить, может вывих. Переломов - вряд ли.
What a frivolous you are. And I, after all, calculated the height of the snow under the cedar. It was business. I took reports of precipitation in Ivdel. I came from proportion. It just came out to the knee. The search engines could tell for sure. It never occurred to anyone to measure the level of snow near the cedar. You can ask Alekseenkov. He hung around there in the winter with Borzenkov.
Half a meter - there definitely was.
The whole trouble is that we have no problems with snow and falling on it from a height. In childhood, we jumped into the snowdrifts from the roofs of low houses as fun. Half a meter of a pillow is to fill with bruises, maybe a dislocation. Fractures are unlikely.
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I uh…. yeah I got nothin. bigjoke
I have to believe it…. Im looking right at it! lol1
Half a meter is knee hight. Show me a picture of searchers at the cedar up to their knee and Ill show you a unicorn. I think its well known they climbed said tree. The fire wouldn’t even classify as a fire in my book and there’s a good size chunky log to land on. Snowflake limb shaking. lol2
wow …. its kinda like ‘wow’ only backwards.
Экий Вы несерьезный. А я ведь - рассчитывала высоту снега под кедром. Было дела. Брала сводки осадков по Ивделю. Исходила из пропорции. Как раз по колено выходило. Точно могли бы сказать поисковики. Никому в голову не пришло промерить уровень снега у кедра. Можно спросить Алексеенкова. Он там по зиме топтался с Борзенковым.
Полметра - там определенно было.
Я могу сказать про другие кедры зимой похожего размера. Около ствола снега вообще может не быть. Чем дальше от ствола, тем снега больше. Не может быть под кроной кедра одинаковой толщины сугроба в разном удалении от ствола.
I can say about other cedars in the winter of a similar size. There may be no snow near the trunk at all. The farther from the trunk, the more snow. There cannot be a snowdrift of the same thickness under the crown of a cedar at different distances from the trunk.
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Я могу сказать про другие кедры зимой похожего размера. Около ствола снега вообще может не быть. Чем дальше от ствола, тем снега больше. Не может быть под кроной кедра одинаковой толщины сугроба в разном удалении от ствола.
I can say about other cedars in the winter of a similar size. There may be no snow near the trunk at all. The farther from the trunk, the more snow. There cannot be a snowdrift of the same thickness under the crown of a cedar at different distances from the trunk.
Что поделать. Люди не знакомились с блокнотами Г.К.Григорьева. И не были такими математиками как я.
Я снег под кедром считала - когда еще была новичком в теме Перевал Дятлова. Ужас как давно.
Я ж как никак имела опыт работы в Росгидромете. Почти профи...
What to do. People did not get acquainted with the notebooks of G.K. Grigoriev. And they were not mathematicians like me.
I counted the snow under the cedar - when I was still a beginner in the topic of the Dyatlov Pass. Horrible long time ago.
Well, after all, I had experience in Roshydromet. Almost pro...
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Im frivolous?
Excuse me but I guarantee you snow depths change and I do not care what the depth was when you or anyone else were there. I have a growing intuition that your of the mind that non Russians are idiots. We dont have cedar trees just oaks, we have never climbed trees, you cannot fall from a tree in russia because the trees are different, all this yacking about how its a national past time for russians to climb trees and in the next breath it’s impossible that they would have…. climbed a tree. nose1
You say this is knee deep when the majority of snow is on top of the bodies so it fell post death. How much snow is beneath them from the time they were placed? nea1
(https://i.ibb.co/swksqnY/45-F2-B773-1986-4761-9723-5-F16-AC318-B3-C.png) (https://ibb.co/vPgLkpn)
Curious as to what model time machine you took to 1959 to measure?
Of course…. Ill just sit here in awe of your knowledge as I am not russian. whacky1
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I think its well known they climbed said tree.
What proof do you have that someone climbed the cedar for sure?
Какие у вас доказательства, что точно кто-то лазил на кедр ?
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Im frivolous?
Excuse me but I guarantee you snow depths change and I do not care what the depth was when you or anyone else were there. I have a growing intuition that your of the mind that non Russians are idiots. We dont have cedar trees just oaks, we have never climbed trees, you cannot fall from a tree in russia because the trees are different, all this yacking about how its a national past time for russians to climb trees and in the next breath it’s impossible that they would have…. climbed a tree. nose1
You say this is knee deep when the majority of snow is on top of the bodies so it fell post death. How much snow is beneath them from the time they were placed? nea1
(https://i.ibb.co/swksqnY/45-F2-B773-1986-4761-9723-5-F16-AC318-B3-C.png) (https://ibb.co/vPgLkpn)
Curious as to what model time machine you took to 1959 to measure?
Of course…. Ill just sit here in awe of your knowledge as I am not russian. whacky1
На фото видно, что тела лежат на каком-то слое снега. Они найдены в конце февраля 1959 года. Там климатические условия таковы, что весь снег сметается с вершин - в понижения. Место кедра - есть понижение. Не самая верхняя точка горы 905.
Снег начинает выпадать там уже с сентября. Осадки за октябрь, ноябрь, декабрь, январь и февраль - известны по Ивделю в миллиметрах. Речь идет о влаге, а не о снеге. Метеорологи так указывают объем выпавших осадков. Есть пропорция как пересчитать эти миллиметры влаги на уровень снежного покрова.
У меня получалось 35 -37 сантиметров. Это то, ниже чего точно не было. Самое верное из вариантов - полметра.
Я их и вижу на фото.
И еще я вижу - что Вы не доверяете русским. Это не страшно. Нам не нужна Ваша вера. Проверьте мои данные и сами получите ответ.
Гугл светит всем.
The photo shows that the bodies lie on some layer of snow. They were found at the end of February 1959. There are climatic conditions, that all the snow is swept from the peaks - into the depressions. Place cedar - there is a decrease. Not the highest point of mountain 905.
Snow begins to fall there already in September. Precipitation for October, November, December, January and February are known from Ivdel in millimeters. We are talking about moisture, not snow. Meteorologists indicate the amount of precipitation that has fallen. There is a proportion how to convert these millimeters of moisture to the level of snow cover.
I got 35 -37 centimeters. This is something that was definitely not lower. The most correct of the options is half a meter.
I see them in the photo.
And I also see that you do not trust the Russians. It's not scary. Your faith is not needed. Check my details and get the answer yourself.
Google shines for everyone.
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I think it would be beneficial for everyone to go back to the basics and read the original testimonies.
Of course, the freshly snapped branches up the tree must have been a figment of imaginations and occurred by divine intervention. 🤷🏼♂️
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I think it would be beneficial for everyone to go back to the basics and read the original testimonies.
Yes please.
Grigoriev dug up hides (animal skin) from under the cedar. This place was Mansi rest stop too. (Grigoriev notebook 3 (https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-3#33))
Also according to our (Igor and I) theory the people that first found the bodies attributed a lot of the activity around the cedar.
The cedar branches could have been broken to clear the view for the radio antenna. This was often done by other search and geological parties. And the direction in which the antenna should have been pointed is exactly the "window" in the cedar branches.
I think its well known they climbed said tree.
Lev Ivanov 30 years after the fact produced this nonsense never mentioned in the case files. This is the only "evidence":
Mystery of the fireballs by Lev Ivanov (https://dyatlovpass.com/lev-ivanov#5)
"On the bark of the tree there were frozen (it’s scary to even say it!) their skin of their inner thighs and scraps of underwear. All this covered the cedar bark."
"На коре дерева остались замерзшие (это даже страшно выговорить!) их мышцы внутренних поверхностей, бедер и обрывки нижнего белья."
It is not enough to have totally botched this investigation but he started legends too.
Lev Ivanov is so full of ****.
"When already in May we examined the scene of the incident with E. Maslennikov"
Maslennikov came back from the pass in March. He was not part of the search in May as Ivanov claims.
"There was a tenth hiker that returned in Vizhay from the trek earlier due to illness, and he was the one who set off the alarm."
Yudin was one of the last to learn the group has gone missing.
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I think it would be beneficial for everyone to go back to the basics and read the original testimonies.
Of course, the freshly snapped branches up the tree must have been a figment of imaginations and occurred by divine intervention. 🤷🏼♂️
Ну это - разве тема для диспута? Тема для диспута - зачем лазать на кедр и можно ли с него упасть на снег так, что переломаться.
Зачем - мне больше нравится что они стряхивали снег с веток и затем решили сломать их, чтоб никакого снега над костром не было тающего на ветках и заливающего костер.
При падении - там невозможно получить серьезные травмы. Не верите - проверяйте. Зима и деревья надеюсь у Вас имеются. Снег можете заменить на эту высоту другими близкими материалами.
Well, is this a topic for debate? The topic for debate is why climb a cedar and is it possible to fall from it into the snow so that you break.
Why - I like that they shook off the snow from the branches and then decided to break them so that no snow over the fire was melting on the branches and flooding the fire.
If you fall, it is impossible to get serious injuries there. Don't believe, check. I hope you have winter and trees. Snow can be replaced by other similar materials at this height.
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Yes please.
Grigoriev dug up hides (animal skin) from under the cedar. This place was Mansi rest stop too.
Also according to our (Igor and I) theory the people that first found the bodies attributed a lot of the activity around the cedar.
The cedar branches could have been broken to clear the view for the radio antenna. This was often done by other search and geological parties. And the direction in which the antenna should have been pointed is exactly the "window" in the cedar branches.
Теодора, последние исследования очень авторитетных знатоков - дали результат. Не было шкур под кедром. Это неверно прочитанные слова Г.К.Григорьева. Кочка была, кочка из мха. Этой информации уже полтора года точно. Это открытие юзера КВН с ресурса Галины Никишиной.
Theodora, the latest research by very authoritative experts has yielded results. There were no skins under the cedar. These are misread words of G.K. Grigoriev. There was a convex, bulge of moss. This information is already one and a half years old for sure. This is the opening of the KVN user from the resource of Galina Nikishina.
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Theodora, the latest research by very authoritative experts has yielded results. There were no skins under the cedar. These are misread words of G.K. Grigoriev. There was a convex. bulge of moss. This information is already one and a half years old for sure. This is the opening of the KVN user from the resource of Galina Nikishina.
But there were Mansi hunting there were they not?
My point being the branches could have been broken by someone else at a different time.
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It is not enough to have totally botched this investigation but he started legends too.
Он с детства такой был - сказочник. Я же изучала его биографию - очень тщательно.
He has been such a storyteller since childhood. I studied his biography - very carefully.
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I do not know this authoritative expert and also there were Mansi hunting there were there not?
My point being the branches could have been broken by someone else at a different time.
Это был очень премудрый юзер. Его уже нет. Он умер. Одним из его наследства - это вычеркнутая "замшелая кожа".
Я Вас понимаю, почему Вы так трепетно всё ищите для своей версии. Вы её - прожили.
Вы выбрали именно такой сюжет, потому что сами прошли через почти такое же в части травмирования.
Я же в отличие от Вас - попала в этот магазин с версиями и попыталась каждую одеть на себя и свои представления - как платье.
Я перемерила всё. Рассмотрела варианты и пошла шить версию на себя. Сшила и очень довольна собою.
Вы перемерили на себя мало версий.
This was a very smart user. He is no more. He died. One of his legacies is the crossed-out "mossy skin".
I understand you why you are so anxiously looking for everything for your version. You have lived it.
You chose just such a plot, because you yourself went through almost the same in terms of trauma.
I, unlike you, got into this store with versions and tried to put each one on myself and my ideas - like a dress.
I measured everything. I considered the options and went to sew a version for myself. Sewn and very pleased with myself.
You tried on a few versions.
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I climbed this cedar in the summer of 2021 and tried to break at least one branch at the base of the trunk. I didn't have the strength. Didn't break.
Despite this, there are many old knots from broken branches, and under the cedar there were old broken branches and fresh broken branches. And in 2022, even more fresh broken branches with semi-green needles appeared under the cedar.
I know from experience that under every large cedar there are broken branches that can be gathered for a fire. These branches break the autumn or winter wind when snow sticks to them.
Я лазил на этот кедр летом 2021 года и пытался сломать хоть одну ветку у основания ствола. Мне не хватило сил. Не сломал.
Несмотря на это там много старых сучков от сломанных веток, а под кедром валялись старые сломанные ветки и свежие сломанные ветки. А в 2022 году под кедром появились сломанные ветки ещё более свежие с полу зелёной хвоёй.
Я знаю по опыту, что под каждым большим кедром валяются сломанные ветки, которые можно набрать для костра. Эти ветки ломает осенний или зимний ветер, когда на них налипает снег.
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I climbed this cedar in the summer of 2021 and tried to break at least one branch at the base of the trunk. I didn't have the strength. Didn't break.
Despite this, there are many old knots from broken branches, and under the cedar there were old broken branches and fresh broken branches. And in 2022, even more fresh broken branches with semi-green needles appeared under the cedar.
I know from experience that under every large cedar there are broken branches that can be gathered for a fire. These branches break the autumn or winter wind when snow sticks to them.
Я лазил на этот кедр летом 2021 года и пытался сломать хоть одну ветку у основания ствола. Мне не хватило сил. Не сломал.
Несмотря на это там много старых сучков от сломанных веток, а под кедром валялись старые сломанные ветки и свежие сломанные ветки. А в 2022 году под кедром появились сломанные ветки ещё более свежие с полу зелёной хвоёй.
Я знаю по опыту, что под каждым большим кедром валяются сломанные ветки, которые можно набрать для костра. Эти ветки ломает осенний или зимний ветер, когда на них налипает снег.
Так ветки со слов поисковиков - надрезали. Была видна работа - ножом.
So the branches, according to the search engines, were cut. Work was visible - with a knife.
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I climbed this cedar in the summer of 2021 and tried to break at least one branch at the base of the trunk. I didn't have the strength. Didn't break.
Despite this, there are many old knots from broken branches, and under the cedar there were old broken branches and fresh broken branches. And in 2022, even more fresh broken branches with semi-green needles appeared under the cedar.
I know from experience that under every large cedar there are broken branches that can be gathered for a fire. These branches break the autumn or winter wind when snow sticks to them.
Я лазил на этот кедр летом 2021 года и пытался сломать хоть одну ветку у основания ствола. Мне не хватило сил. Не сломал.
Несмотря на это там много старых сучков от сломанных веток, а под кедром валялись старые сломанные ветки и свежие сломанные ветки. А в 2022 году под кедром появились сломанные ветки ещё более свежие с полу зелёной хвоёй.
Я знаю по опыту, что под каждым большим кедром валяются сломанные ветки, которые можно набрать для костра. Эти ветки ломает осенний или зимний ветер, когда на них налипает снег.
Так ветки со слов поисковиков - надрезали. Была видна работа - ножом.
So the branches, according to the search engines, were cut. Work was visible - with a knife.
Надрезаны стволики, что на настиле. Эти ветки с кедра тоже надрезаны ? Покажите фото.
The trunks are incised, which is on the flooring. Are these cedar branches cut too? Show a photo.
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Надрезаны стволики, что на настиле. Эти ветки с кедра тоже надрезаны ? Покажите фото.
The trunks are incised, which is on the flooring. Are these cedar branches cut too? Show a photo.
Допросы и воспоминания. Якименко - это точно в экспе 1963 года. Они лазали на кедр.
Interrogations and memories. Yakimenko - this is exactly in the 1963 exp. They climbed the cedar.
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I do not have the time to read all the case files and testimonies again. I specifically remember things regarding the tree and the height to which branches were found broken.
We have more pictures looking up the tree then we do the state of the tent when found….. let that sink in a moment.
(https://i.ibb.co/cYQYvVj/41-D2-B1-B7-2-C78-41-BE-9989-7213-F8-CF2-E87.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/gwBVP8w/66-FEE3-B9-EDFC-4-A36-88-F7-22-E46-E6-B04-EC.png) (https://ibb.co/S09rdg0)
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I do not have the time to read all the case files and testimonies again. I specifically remember things regarding the tree and the height to which branches were found broken.
We have more pictures looking up the tree then we do the state of the tent when found….. let that sink in a moment.
(https://i.ibb.co/cYQYvVj/41-D2-B1-B7-2-C78-41-BE-9989-7213-F8-CF2-E87.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/gwBVP8w/66-FEE3-B9-EDFC-4-A36-88-F7-22-E46-E6-B04-EC.png) (https://ibb.co/S09rdg0)
Надо полагать - Вы разглядели какая густая у кедра крона? Как часто ветки отходят от ствола?
Presumably - you saw how dense the crown of the cedar is? How often do branches move away from the trunk?
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I think its well known they climbed said tree.
What proof do you have that someone climbed the cedar for sure?
Какие у вас доказательства, что точно кто-то лазил на кедр ?
What proof do you have that someone didn’t climb the tree?
I simply post a topic of discussion regarding the possibility. People are always looking for a reason or method in which some of the injuries occurred….. here is one staring us right in the face.
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I think its well known they climbed said tree.
What proof do you have that someone climbed the cedar for sure?
Какие у вас доказательства, что точно кто-то лазил на кедр ?
What proof do you have that someone didn’t climb the tree?
I simply post a topic of discussion regarding the possibility. People are always looking for a reason or method in which some of the injuries occurred….. here is one staring us right in the face.
Переводчик перевёл мне вашу фразу, что вам хорошо известно о падении туристов с кедра. Поэтому я и задал вопрос о доказательствах. На кедр может залезть один и упасть с него, получив травму. Половина группы никак не могут сделать подобного. Там даже вдвоём никак не развернёшься.
The translator translated your phrase to me, that you are well aware of the fall of tourists from the cedar. That's why I asked about evidence. One can climb onto a cedar and fall from it, getting injured. Half of the group can't do that. You can't even turn around there.
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I think its well known they climbed said tree.
What proof do you have that someone climbed the cedar for sure?
Какие у вас доказательства, что точно кто-то лазил на кедр ?
What proof do you have that someone didn’t climb the tree?
I simply post a topic of discussion regarding the possibility. People are always looking for a reason or method in which some of the injuries occurred….. here is one staring us right in the face.
Переводчик перевёл мне вашу фразу, что вам хорошо известно о падении туристов с кедра. Поэтому я и задал вопрос о доказательствах. На кедр может залезть один и упасть с него, получив травму. Половина группы никак не могут сделать подобного. Там даже вдвоём никак не развернёшься.
The translator translated your phrase to me, that you are well aware of the fall of tourists from the cedar. That's why I asked about evidence. One can climb onto a cedar and fall from it, getting injured. Half of the group can't do that. You can't even turn around there.
Why has there always been so much focus on the view from the cedar top to tent locations? The idea that it was climbed is not a new revolutionary concept.
I said climbing is more/less known and accepted…. not falling.
If you can climb a tree, then you can fall from a tree, and you can also receive severe injury from a fall. This isn’t rocket science. It offers a cause for injury which in my opinion shouldn’t be disregarded due to theory bias.
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I read on that other forum that is in russian that there was a 2009 expedition to the pass and they found a tree climber's boot spike in the cedar and non of the skiers or searchers had such things. I can't find it now but could the broken branches be from someone climbing other than the skiers?
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Broken at the time of the incident or later? Both would be possible I would presume, but found during the search would be the relevant information. I hate to have to do it, but guess Ill have to reread all the testimonies again to find the reference. 🤨
Im betting that there wasn’t much focus on the tree, and I highly doubt anyone at the time thought of a possible fall scenario, especially when the severely injured whereabouts were still unknown. At the time of the cedar investigation, nobody was thinking about how the rav4 injuries could have been caused.
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This is a good point and something I've thought about. We have hindsight. The searchers at the time didn't and weren't contemplating how fractured ribs or skulls occurred. Not only that but even anyone staging the scene wouldn't know the internal injuries , they might be able to notice a moving/floating chest but other than that they didn't have the autopsy reports so they wouldn't know what would be found. Like wise they wouldn't know if there were fractures in any of the bones of the 5 not in the ravine . That could be a fracture/breaks in the hands, legs, feet that would raise further suspicion of outsiders involvement.
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It strikes me as a deucedly hard task to climb a tree numb, slick and blowing snow. Maybe it is a red herring.
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It strikes me as a deucedly hard task to climb a tree numb, slick and blowing snow. Maybe it is a red herring.
Seems like the same can be said regarding much of the dp incident.
Lets explore… What possible reasons would there be to climb the tree?
1: recreation
2: firewood
3: observation post
4: escape from something or someone
Any others?
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Number three, but dead reckoning would also get you to your tent without risking a fall.
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It strikes me as a deucedly hard task to climb a tree numb, slick and blowing snow. Maybe it is a red herring.
Seems like the same can be said regarding much of the dp incident.
Lets explore… What possible reasons would there be to climb the tree?
1: recreation
2: firewood
3: observation post
4: escape from something or someone
Any others?
I would go with 2. Fire wood, they didn't have means to cut good wood, the ceder is the best source for burning. They wrote the day before in their diary that the wood was poor for burning. The dead wood was full of frozen water. If I understand the case files it was the branches from the ceder that were burned?
It makes the most sense that theses branches would be the easiest to gather and burn given the options available?
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It strikes me as a deucedly hard task to climb a tree numb, slick and blowing snow. Maybe it is a red herring.
Seems like the same can be said regarding much of the dp incident.
Lets explore… What possible reasons would there be to climb the tree?
1: recreation
2: firewood
3: observation post
4: escape from something or someone
Any others?
I would go with 2. Fire wood, they didn't have means to cut good wood, the ceder is the best source for burning. They wrote the day before in their diary that the wood was poor for burning. The dead wood was full of frozen water. If I understand the case files it was the branches from the ceder that were burned?
It makes the most sense that theses branches would be the easiest to gather and burn given the options available?
I guess its going to depend on what theory you subscribe to for most people. I am not married to a theory so I would have to go with firewood also because it just makes the most sense. Whether its for a survival fire by the cedar or for the stove back at the tent, the wood being dry is absolutely paramount. Anyone that has spent any time outdoors in wet conditions where collecting firewood is involved knows all the wood on the ground is water logged and more often then not half rotted. Its common sense to take dry dead wood branches from a tree where it has stayed dry and seasoned up off the forest floor.
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That makes sense. What does not make sense is letting the fire go out. What were they thinking!?
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During the search for a place for the camp, M. Sharavin discovered two dead bodies covered with snow by the cedar. Nearby, a fire had been burning. A dozen small fir-trees were cut down with a Finnish knife in the vicinity. The lower dry branches of the cedar were broken off. The snow around was trampled. A few five-centimeter raw branches were also broken off the cedar at an altitude of 3-4 meters. Some of them remained lying around the fire.
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-362-369?rbid=17743
vroom1 wink1
Im guessing you would have to CLIMB THE TREE to obtain 4 meters. nose1
I prefer my apologies hand delivered with wax seal. kewl1
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I read on that other forum that is in russian that there was a 2009 expedition to the pass and they found a tree climber's boot spike in the cedar and non of the skiers or searchers had such things. I can't find it now but could the broken branches be from someone climbing other than the skiers?
Вас опять подвел гуглтранслит. Или же Ваше желание все понимать не так как написано. Никакого шипа в древесине кедра - не находили. На местности где растет кедр - находили такой шип. Но это вполне понятно. В команду Кикоина входили как раз альпинисты. Они могли брать на поиски свое снаряжение под свои планы. Например лазать для обследования по останцам Отортена. Ведь записка группы Гудкова была снята именно на останцах Отортена. Могли быт планы лучше чем группа Аксельрода - проверить там.
Google Translit failed you again. Or your desire to understand everything is not as it is written. No thorn was found in the cedar wood. In the area where the cedar grows - they found such a thorn. But this is quite understandable. The Kikoin team included just climbers. They could take their equipment on searches according to their plans. For example, to climb for examination on the remains of Otorten. After all, the note of the Gudkov group was filmed precisely on the remnants of Otorten. There could have been better plans than Axelrod's group - check there.
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Broken at the time of the incident or later? Both would be possible I would presume, but found during the search would be the relevant information. I hate to have to do it, but guess Ill have to reread all the testimonies again to find the reference. 🤨
Im betting that there wasn’t much focus on the tree, and I highly doubt anyone at the time thought of a possible fall scenario, especially when the severely injured whereabouts were still unknown. At the time of the cedar investigation, nobody was thinking about how the rav4 injuries could have been caused.
Не озадачивайтесь. Мадемуазель как всегда поняла текст так как ей нравится. Боже ж мой. Сколько хаоса вносит гугл транслит в умы зарубежных исследователей...Если русские не станут как добросовестные няньки - все пояснять, то какие-же версии возникнут на таком искажении. Просто страшно представить.
Don't be puzzled. Mademoiselle, as always, understood the text as she liked it. My God. How much chaos Google translate brings into the minds of foreign researchers ... If the Russians do not become like conscientious nannies - explain everything, then some versions will arise on such a distortion. It's just scary to imagine.
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I read on that other forum that is in russian that there was a 2009 expedition to the pass and they found a tree climber's boot spike in the cedar and non of the skiers or searchers had such things. I can't find it now but could the broken branches be from someone climbing other than the skiers?
Вас опять подвел гуглтранслит. Или же Ваше желание все понимать не так как написано. Никакого шипа в древесине кедра - не находили. На местности где растет кедр - находили такой шип. Но это вполне понятно. В команду Кикоина входили как раз альпинисты. Они могли брать на поиски свое снаряжение под свои планы. Например лазать для обследования по останцам Отортена. Ведь записка группы Гудкова была снята именно на останцах Отортена. Могли быт планы лучше чем группа Аксельрода - проверить там.
Google Translit failed you again. Or your desire to understand everything is not as it is written. No thorn was found in the cedar wood. In the area where the cedar grows - they found such a thorn. But this is quite understandable. The Kikoin team included just climbers. They could take their equipment on searches according to their plans. For example, to climb for examination on the remains of Otorten. After all, the note of the Gudkov group was filmed precisely on the remnants of Otorten. There could have been better plans than Axelrod's group - check there.
Вообще, это очень странный найденный предмет, который невозможно объяснить в районе кедра. Альпинисткие кошки не предназначены, что-бы от них зубья отламывались. Тогда это не кошки, а убийцы. Кроме того, в этом районе нет никаких ледовых участков, где нужны кошки.
Возможно это не зуб от кошек, а что-то похожее.
In general, this is a very strange object found that cannot be explained in the cedar area. Climbing crampons are not designed to break teeth off of them. Then it's not cats, but killers. In addition, there are no ice areas in this area where crampons are needed.
Perhaps this is not a tooth from cats, but something similar.
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It strikes me as a deucedly hard task to climb a tree numb, slick and blowing snow. Maybe it is a red herring.
Если снег на ветках кедра от огня костра начинает таять и заливать с трудом разведенный костер, то самое легкое решение - убрать эти ветки над костром. Из-за того что они обломаны - мы не знаем как располагались ветки. 90 процентов вероятности - что как раз над костром. Крона у таких деревьев имеет особенность. Она - флаговая и формируется преобладающими ветрами. Ветки от ветра заворачиваются. Поразмыслите - какое место выбирали для костра?
If the snow on the branches of the cedar from the fire of the fire begins to melt and flood the fire with difficulty, then the easiest solution is to remove these branches above the fire. Due to the fact that they are broken off, we do not know how the branches were located. 90 percent probability - that is just above the fire. The crown of such trees has a peculiarity. It is a flag and is formed by the prevailing winds. Branches are twisted by the wind. Think - what place was chosen for the fire?
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Any others?
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1322.msg21013#msg21013
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That makes sense. What does not make sense is letting the fire go out. What were they thinking!?
Not their fire.
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I do not have the time to read all the case files and testimonies again. I specifically remember things regarding the tree and the height to which branches were found broken.
We have more pictures looking up the tree then we do the state of the tent when found….. let that sink in a moment.
(https://i.ibb.co/cYQYvVj/41-D2-B1-B7-2-C78-41-BE-9989-7213-F8-CF2-E87.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/gwBVP8w/66-FEE3-B9-EDFC-4-A36-88-F7-22-E46-E6-B04-EC.png) (https://ibb.co/S09rdg0)
Вот эти ветки, которые обозначены красным цветом, сломаны ветром.
These branches, which are marked in red, are broken by the wind.
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1963
(https://i.ibb.co/cJLT27r/01-1963-104-024.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/x6nnNzn/02-1963-104-035.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/X4ZMZJg/03-1963-104-031.jpg)
"Ураган в горах" Г.К.Григорьев
"Hurricane in the mountains" G.K. Grigoriev
Погибшие шли в метель и по-видимому спутали маршрут. Они не пересекли перевал и не спустились в долину Лозьвы, а пошли вдоль по перевалу на гору и не дошли 300м до вершины. Они умаялись, стало темно и делать было нечего, как заночевать. Палатку сделали хорошо, со стороны вершины горы они ее вкопали в снег и снегом присыпали с той стороны. Так что ветер только лизал крышу. Палатка порвана и порезана ножом. Это видно потому, что разрыв не вдоль, как ребята могли, а наискось. Ее порезали ножом (наверное, порезали те, которые резали сучья на кедре для костра. Ножи они схватили может для обороны. От кого обороняться? Может волков стая. Но они бы их поели.(Может 5х и съели). Вопрос, почему они выскочили из палатки разумеется волнует всех. В лагере только об этом и говорят. Вот как вечером соберутся в палатке и только разговор об этом. Высказывают сотни различных предположений, но ни в одну никто не верит.
https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-2#38
The doomed went into a snowstorm and apparently missed the route. They did not cross the pass and did not go down to the Lozva valley, but went along the pass to the mountain and did not reach 300m to the top. They got tired, it became dark and there was nothing to do, how to spend the night. They made the tent well, from the top of the mountain they dug it in the snow and filled the gap with snow. So the wind only licked the roof. The tent is torn and cut with a knife. This is evident because the gap is not along, as the guys could, but obliquely. They cut it with a knife (probably, those who cut branches on a cedar for a fire cut. They grabbed the knives maybe for defense. From whom to defend? Maybe a wolf pack. But they would eat them. (Maybe the remaining 5 are eaten). The question of why they fled the tent certainly worries everyone. The camp is talking only about this. They will gather in the tent in the evening and just talk about it. Hundreds of different assumptions are made, but no one believes in any.
Подошла сюда еще одна группа. Обнаружили место костра. Ковырнули снег, там обнаружили головешки толщиной в руку. Костер около кедра, на котором на высоте 5м надрезаны и обломаны все сучья. Некоторые из них найдены далеко, за 5м от кедра. По-видимому был ураган, и эти крохи для костра, доставшиеся с трудом, не все ребята забрали и сожгли. Кругом кедра на расст.неск.метров обломаны все деревца. По-видимому, была ночь, буря, и они дальше боялись отойти. Сломано, подрезано ножом 10 толщиной в руку сосенок.
https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-2#47 (https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-2#47)
Another group came. Found the camp fire. They dug out some snow and found an arm thick firebrands. The fire is near a cedar, on which at the height of 5 m all branches are cut and broken off. Some of them were found far, 5m from the cedar. Apparently there was a storm, and these crumbs for the campfire, which were difficult to get, the guys didn't gather them all and burn. Around the cedar to distance several meters the trees are broken. Apparently, it was night, a storm, and they were afraid to move on. Broken, trimmed with a knife 10 arm thick pine branches.
Разрез палатки изнутри. Наверное, они его сделали, так у них был нож, о чем говорят надрезы на слом.сучьях кедра. Но нож не нашли.
https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-3#8 (https://dyatlovpass.com/grigoriev-3#8)
The tent was cut from inside. Probably they did it, they had a knife, we know that because of the branches that were cut under of cedar. The knife was never found though.
П.С. Геннадий Константинович! Светлая Вам память! Что бы без Вас - делало дятловедение? Ходило кругами в трех кедрах и набивало шишки...
P.S. Gennady Konstantinovich! Blessed memory to you! What would woodpecker science do without you? Walked in circles in three cedars and stuffed bumps ...
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This is the sword your willing to fall on? nea1
Your savior is a journalist that roamed around the area and made assumptions. You look at second hand information as gospel. shock1
No thank you…. Ill go with the first person to arrive, an outdoorsman without a political muzzle.
Branches broken from tree at least 4 meters. Fact
I also see that you have a habit of modifying your post after slandering, condescending, and patronizing non russian members. If I catch it again, there will be consequences.
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This is the sword your willing to fall on? nea1
Your savior is a journalist that roamed around the area and made assumptions. You look at second hand information as gospel. shock1
No thank you…. Ill go with the first person to arrive, an outdoorsman without a political muzzle.
Branches broken from tree at least 4 meters. Fact
I also see that you have a habit of modifying your post after slandering, condescending, and patronizing non russian members. If I catch it again, there will be consequences.
Мистер, Вы не могли бы понежнее? Мы с Вами так мило обсудили в личке - все мои предпочтения и взгляды? Зачем портить впечатление?
У упомянутого Вами журналиста - есть одно и превеликое преимущество перед Вами. Он был на тех поисках. Мало того, он очень старательно фиксировал для себя все события. Через его руки прошли все вещи туристов группы Дятлова. В Ивделе он бывал и до 1959 года и после 1959 года.
Г.К.Григорьев - это не какой-то случайный человек. Это клад информации. Я не стану уточнять - чем являются Ваши представления против его знания. Догадайтесь с трех раз и да помогут Вам сложности перевода на русский язык и обратно.
Я правлю посты и правлю - чтоб убрать грамматические ошибки. Мое мнение - я никогда не правлю. Это мой стиль. Еще я не люблю смайлики. Это тоже часть стиля. Можете для развлечения установить на форуме сохранение редакций поста и развлекаться сравнением разных редакций моих постов. Вы меня откровенно повеселите - разыскивая разницу в одну точку или запятую или слово. Которое я подбираю из всего бедного запаса английского языка, чтоб транслит не коверкал смысл. Вы ведь, мистер, читаете только на английском...
У меня нет желания кого-то обижать. Есть попытка пробиться среди горы надуманного на тему Перевал Дятлова. Надуманного только потому - что перевод не всегда корректен. Те кто давно в теме - видят это. Я такая - что в теме очень давно. Если честно - если Вам нравится быть в неведении, если Вам нравится брать из фактов только мизерную часть: никто Вам мешать не станет. Только остается вопрос. Как на этом раскрыть тайну Перевала Дятлова? Вас же она интригует или что-то другое важнее?
Mister, could you be gentler? We have so nicely discussed in a personal - all my preferences and views? Why spoil the impression?
The journalist you mentioned has one great advantage over you. He was on those quests. Moreover, he very diligently recorded all events for himself. All the belongings of the tourists of the Dyatlov group passed through his hands. He visited Ivdel before 1959 and after 1959.
GK Grigoriev is not some random person. This is a treasure trove of information. I will not specify - what are your ideas against his knowledge. Guess three times and let the difficulties of translating into Russian and vice versa help you.
I edit posts and edit - to remove grammatical errors. My opinion - I never rule. This is my style. I also don't like smilies. This is also part of the style. For fun, you can set the forum to save post revisions and have fun comparing different editions of my posts. You will frankly amuse me - looking for the difference in one dot or comma or a word. Which I select from the entire poor stock of the English language, so that transliteration does not distort the meaning. You only read English, mister...
I have no desire to offend anyone. There is an attempt to break through the mountains far-fetched on the theme of the Dyatlov Pass. Far-fetched only because the translation is not always correct. Those who have been in the subject for a long time see it. I'm like - that in the subject for a very long time. To be honest - if you like to be in the dark, if you like to take only a tiny part of the facts: no one will interfere with you. Only the question remains. How to reveal the secret of the Dyatlov Pass on this? Does it intrigue you or something else more important?
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I am a wee bit lost here. What's the debate over the branches and fire?
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I am a wee bit lost here. What's the debate over the branches and fire?
Shes is putting all her eggs in one basket getting her information from someone who arrived on the scene later and cherry picking information. The first person to arrive at the site she is disregarding, then patronizing non russian members in a condescending manor on the premises that everything we read is flawed translation. As if we are mindless drones who need a “brain nanny”…. Yeah I read that before she edited her post.
When I suggested everyone go back to the basics and explore the original case files…. It’s specifically because TEDDYS SITE CASE FILES WERE 100% TRANSLATED BY HER AND ARE 100% ACCURATE.
Im simply no longer playing games. Ive been poking around the site and engaging with members, posting sensitive topics that usually draw a divide in effort to discern who’s causing problems. In most cases Почемучка elicits a negative response with arrogance, and narcissism.
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Shes is putting all her eggs in one basket getting her information from someone who arrived on the scene later and cherry picking information. The first person to arrive at the site she is disregarding, then patronizing non russian members in a condescending manor on the premises that everything we read is flawed translation. As if we are mindless drones who need a “brain nanny”…. Yeah I read that before she edited her post.
When I suggested everyone go back to the basics and explore the original case files…. It’s specifically because TEDDYS SITE CASE FILES WERE 100% TRANSLATED BY HER AND ARE 100% ACCURATE.
Im simply no longer playing games. Ive been poking around the site and engaging with members, posting sensitive topics that usually draw a divide in effort to discern who’s causing problems. In most cases Почемучка elicits a negative response with arrogance, and narcissism.
Ну понятно. Только почему Вы не сделали скрин - до того как я отредактировала? У Вас были бы доказательства и у меня - алиби.
Это первое. Второе. Вас как американца скорее бы угнетала ужасная неправда про тайну убийства Кеннеди? Вот взяли бы русские и давай сочинять на эту достаточно освещенную в фактах тему - всякие странные истории. Так с Перевалом Дятлова - именно так.
Третье. Информация на этом ресурсе неплохая. Но - безупречности нет. Вас выручает то, что есть именно оригиналы. В глазах русских выручает. Вас может не интересовать наша оценка. Но Вы же хотите раскрыть русскую тайну? Или не хотите раскрывать?
Вы определитесь - что Вам предпочтительнее? Русских на форуме - и так полтора землекопа. Борзенков В.А.ушел, а это был - супер знаток темы. Я - пыль на его подошвах. Русские могут Вам - не мешать. Не пытаться заставлять изучать и сводить в одну понятную картину имеющиеся факты. Если фантазии и надуманность - это приемлемый метод: воля Ваша. Раскланяемся и удалимся.
Well, okay. But why didn't you take a screenshot - before I edited it? You would have proof and I would have an alibi.
This is the first. Second. As an American, would you rather be oppressed by the terrible lie about the mystery of the Kennedy assassination? The Russians would take it and let's write all sorts of strange stories on this topic, which is sufficiently covered in facts. So with the Dyatlov Pass - that's right.
Third. The information on this site is good. But there is no perfection. You are rescued by the fact that there are exactly originals. Helps out in the eyes of the Russians. You may not be interested in our assessment. But do you want to reveal the Russian secret? Or don't want to reveal?
You decide - what do you prefer? Russians on the forum - and so one and a half excavators. Borzenkov V.A. left, and he was a super connoisseur of the topic. I am the dust on his soles. The Russians can not interfere with you. Do not try to force to study and reduce the available facts into one clear picture. If fantasies and artificiality are an acceptable method: your will. We bow and leave.
П.С. У меня сейчас сессия закончилась. Поэтому опять редакция с вытягиванием написанного из кэша.
P.S. My session is now over. Therefore, again, the edition with pulling what was written from the cache.
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Shes is putting all her eggs in one basket getting her information from someone who arrived on the scene later and cherry picking information. The first person to arrive at the site she is disregarding, then patronizing non russian members in a condescending manor on the premises that everything we read is flawed translation. As if we are mindless drones who need a “brain nanny”…. Yeah I read that before she edited her post.
When I suggested everyone go back to the basics and explore the original case files…. It’s specifically because TEDDYS SITE CASE FILES WERE 100% TRANSLATED BY HER AND ARE 100% ACCURATE.
Im simply no longer playing games. Ive been poking around the site and engaging with members, posting sensitive topics that usually draw a divide in effort to discern who’s causing problems. In most cases Почемучка elicits a negative response with arrogance, and narcissism.
Ну понятно. Только почему Вы не сделали скрин - до того как я отредактировала? У Вас были бы доказательства и у меня - алиби.
Это первое. Второе. Вас как американца скорее бы угнетала ужасная неправда про тайну убийства Кеннеди? Вот взяли бы русские и давай сочинять на эту достаточно освещенную в фактах тему - всякие странные истории. Так с Перевалом Дятлова - именно так.
Третье. Информация на этом ресурсе неплохая. Но - безупречности нет. Вас выручает то, что есть именно оригиналы. В глазах русских выручает. Вас может не интересовать наша оценка. Но Вы же хотите раскрыть русскую тайну? Или не хотите раскрывать?
Well, okay. But why didn't you take a screenshot - before I edited it? You would have proof and I would have an alibi.
This is the first. Second. As an American, would you rather be oppressed by the terrible lie about the mystery of the Kennedy assassination? The Russians would take it and let's write all sorts of strange stories on this topic, which is sufficiently covered in facts. So with the Dyatlov Pass - that's right.
Third. The information on this site is good. But there is no perfection. You are rescued by the fact that there are exactly originals. Helps out in the eyes of the Russians. You may not be interested in our assessment. But do you want to reveal the Russian secret? Or don't want to reveal?
Perdóneme? Vivo en Texas. whacky1
There you go again. “Which I select from the entire poor stock of the English language, so that transliteration does not distort the meaning. You only read English, mister...“
Russians are the ones who have butchered this entire incident from investigation to modern corruption, but yet you mock those who attempt to clean your mess. Perhaps foreigners are not tanted by your lack of freedom of speech, or a free press.
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Shes is putting all her eggs in one basket getting her information from someone who arrived on the scene later and cherry picking information. The first person to arrive at the site she is disregarding, then patronizing non russian members in a condescending manor on the premises that everything we read is flawed translation. As if we are mindless drones who need a “brain nanny”…. Yeah I read that before she edited her post.
When I suggested everyone go back to the basics and explore the original case files…. It’s specifically because TEDDYS SITE CASE FILES WERE 100% TRANSLATED BY HER AND ARE 100% ACCURATE.
Im simply no longer playing games. Ive been poking around the site and engaging with members, posting sensitive topics that usually draw a divide in effort to discern who’s causing problems. In most cases Почемучка elicits a negative response with arrogance, and narcissism.
Ну понятно. Только почему Вы не сделали скрин - до того как я отредактировала? У Вас были бы доказательства и у меня - алиби.
Это первое. Второе. Вас как американца скорее бы угнетала ужасная неправда про тайну убийства Кеннеди? Вот взяли бы русские и давай сочинять на эту достаточно освещенную в фактах тему - всякие странные истории. Так с Перевалом Дятлова - именно так.
Третье. Информация на этом ресурсе неплохая. Но - безупречности нет. Вас выручает то, что есть именно оригиналы. В глазах русских выручает. Вас может не интересовать наша оценка. Но Вы же хотите раскрыть русскую тайну? Или не хотите раскрывать?
Well, okay. But why didn't you take a screenshot - before I edited it? You would have proof and I would have an alibi.
This is the first. Second. As an American, would you rather be oppressed by the terrible lie about the mystery of the Kennedy assassination? The Russians would take it and let's write all sorts of strange stories on this topic, which is sufficiently covered in facts. So with the Dyatlov Pass - that's right.
Third. The information on this site is good. But there is no perfection. You are rescued by the fact that there are exactly originals. Helps out in the eyes of the Russians. You may not be interested in our assessment. But do you want to reveal the Russian secret? Or don't want to reveal?
What's the lie about the Kennedy assassination?
If you have something to reveal, why not reveal it. There's been lots of talk but nothing is getting said. I personally could do without all the GIFs and video links that mean nothing. I have to be honest, it's getting tedious. If you have some kind of revelation, just spit it out.
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Perdóneme? Vivo en Texas. whacky1
There you go again. “Which I select from the entire poor stock of the English language, so that transliteration does not distort the meaning. You only read English, mister...“
Russians are the ones who have butchered this entire incident from investigation to modern corruption, but yet you mock those who attempt to clean your mess. Perhaps foreigners are not tanted by your lack of freedom of speech, or a free press.
О наглядных примерах
About illustrative examples
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1127.msg20075#msg20075
Кстати, Техас и Кеннеди - как удачно-то я тыкнула пальцем в глобус и в историю США...
By the way, Texas and Kennedy - how lucky I poked my finger at the globe and at the history of the United States ...
И кстати номер два. Я ничего не имею против - что Вы взялись опекать Аннушку Русских. Ваш выбор - Вы и выбрали. Только зачем меня на эту тему час пытали в личке? У нас глубокая ночь, а я переела кофе в три раза - чтоб попытаться до Вас донести весь смысл. Ну Вы такой деятельный же? Чего не поискали на российских просторах все мнения о ней?
And by the way, number two. I have nothing against - that you undertook to patronize Annushka Russkikh. Your choice is your choice. But why did they torture me on this topic for an hour in a personal? We have a deep night, and I ate coffee three times - to try to convey the whole meaning to you. Well, are you so active? Why didn’t all the opinions about her look in the Russian expanses?
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Im simply no longer playing games. Ive been poking around the site and engaging with members, posting sensitive topics that usually draw a divide in effort to discern who’s causing problems. In most cases Почемучка elicits a negative response with arrogance, and narcissism.
....and also by antics, clowning and littering of topics.
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Perdóneme? Vivo en Texas. whacky1
There you go again. “Which I select from the entire poor stock of the English language, so that transliteration does not distort the meaning. You only read English, mister...“
Russians are the ones who have butchered this entire incident from investigation to modern corruption, but yet you mock those who attempt to clean your mess. Perhaps foreigners are not tanted by your lack of freedom of speech, or a free press.
О наглядных примерах
About illustrative examples
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1127.msg20075#msg20075
Кстати, Техас и Кеннеди - как удачно-то я тыкнула пальцем в глобус и в историю США...
By the way, Texas and Kennedy - how lucky I poked my finger at the globe and at the history of the United States ...
JFK is a mystery? Perhaps to conspiracy theorists maybe. lol1
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Perdóneme? Vivo en Texas. whacky1
There you go again. “Which I select from the entire poor stock of the English language, so that transliteration does not distort the meaning. You only read English, mister...“
Russians are the ones who have butchered this entire incident from investigation to modern corruption, but yet you mock those who attempt to clean your mess. Perhaps foreigners are not tanted by your lack of freedom of speech, or a free press.
О наглядных примерах
About illustrative examples
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1127.msg20075#msg20075
Кстати, Техас и Кеннеди - как удачно-то я тыкнула пальцем в глобус и в историю США...
By the way, Texas and Kennedy - how lucky I poked my finger at the globe and at the history of the United States ...
И кстати номер два. Я ничего не имею против - что Вы взялись опекать Аннушку Русских. Ваш выбор - Вы и выбрали. Только зачем меня на эту тему час пытали в личке? У нас глубокая ночь, а я переела кофе в три раза - чтоб попытаться до Вас донести весь смысл. Ну Вы такой деятельный же? Чего не поискали на российских просторах все мнения о ней?
And by the way, number two. I have nothing against - that you undertook to patronize Annushka Russkikh. Your choice is your choice. But why did they torture me on this topic for an hour in a personal? We have a deep night, and I ate coffee three times - to try to convey the whole meaning to you. Well, are you so active? Why didn’t all the opinions about her look in the Russian expanses?
I haven't a clue what you're ranting about?
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JFK is a mystery? Perhaps to conspiracy theorists maybe. lol1
Вот видите, Вам стало смешно. А русские могут на эту тему изрядно пофантазировать. Увидеть оранжевый цвет кожи на обшивке президентского лимузина и ...полет фантазии пойдет прямо в космос.
See, you're laughing. And the Russians can pretty much fantasize about this topic. To see the orange color of the skin on the lining of the presidential limousine and ... the flight of fancy will go straight into space.
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I haven't a clue what you're ranting about?
Я - исчадие русского ада с его понимания. Я пришла здесь всех обижать и угнетать своим присутствием. Так- то, сэр Ziljoe...
I am a fiend of the Russian hell from his understanding. I came here to offend and oppress everyone with my presence. So, Sir Ziljoe...
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Perdóneme? Vivo en Texas. whacky1
There you go again. “Which I select from the entire poor stock of the English language, so that transliteration does not distort the meaning. You only read English, mister...“
Russians are the ones who have butchered this entire incident from investigation to modern corruption, but yet you mock those who attempt to clean your mess. Perhaps foreigners are not tanted by your lack of freedom of speech, or a free press.
О наглядных примерах
About illustrative examples
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1127.msg20075#msg20075
Кстати, Техас и Кеннеди - как удачно-то я тыкнула пальцем в глобус и в историю США...
By the way, Texas and Kennedy - how lucky I poked my finger at the globe and at the history of the United States ...
И кстати номер два. Я ничего не имею против - что Вы взялись опекать Аннушку Русских. Ваш выбор - Вы и выбрали. Только зачем меня на эту тему час пытали в личке? У нас глубокая ночь, а я переела кофе в три раза - чтоб попытаться до Вас донести весь смысл. Ну Вы такой деятельный же? Чего не поискали на российских просторах все мнения о ней?
And by the way, number two. I have nothing against - that you undertook to patronize Annushka Russkikh. Your choice is your choice. But why did they torture me on this topic for an hour in a personal? We have a deep night, and I ate coffee three times - to try to convey the whole meaning to you. Well, are you so active? Why didn’t all the opinions about her look in the Russian expanses?
I haven't a clue what you're ranting about?
I had to clarify the new rule to her in PM. Then I asked what she thinks happened to the dp group…. she sent me a bunch of links. 🤷🏼♂️
Interesting to note…. I still don’t understand what her theory is, but she’s hell bent on suppressing a marketplace of ideas.
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I had to clarify the new rule to her in PM. Then I asked what she thinks happened to the dp group…. she sent me a bunch of links. 🤷🏼♂️
Interesting to note…. I still don’t understand what her theory is, but she’s hell bent on suppressing a marketplace of ideas.
О да. Я как честная Маша - предоставила Вам ссылки на Вашем же ресурсе. Ну думала раз Вы спросили - значит мне отвечать.
Вы бы сразу уточнили - что оно Вам не надо. Мне бы не пришлось пить тройную дозу кофе, чтоб собрать в точку все то что надо было пояснить.
Я не подавляю рынок идей. Увы. Чего тут подавлять-то? У Вас тут публикуются идеи, которые у нас десять лет назад как отброшены за негодностью. Нагаев то же. Уж сколько русские над его сочинениями ухохотались - это не передать русскими словами.
Если интересно работать со старыми идеями и старыми попытками - воля Ваша.
Oh yeah. I, as an honest Masha, provided you with links to your own resource. Ah thought times you asked - means me to answer.
You would immediately clarify - that you do not need it. I wouldn't have to drink a triple dose of coffee to get everything that needed to be explained to the point.
I don't suppress the marketplace of ideas. Alas. What is there to suppress? You publish here ideas that we had discarded ten years ago as worthless. Nagaev is the same. How much the Russians laughed at his writings - this cannot be expressed in Russian words.
If it is interesting to work with old ideas and old attempts - your will.
П.С. Но Вы на верном пути. Сэр Ziljoe. скорее всего сможет пояснить Вам - в чем состоит моя теория.
P.S. But you are on the right track. Sir Ziljoe. most likely will be able to explain to you - what is my theory.
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Bingo
You write off pertaining information because either 1: it doesn’t fit your narrative, or 2: put 2nd hand sources before 1st hand sources. You are a shining example of why return to the basics is in order. Sometimes a fresh start can yield new results. If you already know everything and are incapable of taking a second look at something…. why are you here? This conundrum has been in the russian arena for over 60 years and in that time it’s become 3000 times more political and convoluted.
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Thats 2 posts removed and 100 points awarded for mouthy insubordination…. any other takers?
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"As the chairman of the organizing committee of the expedition, Alexei Koskin, told Uralinformbureau, a penknife was found, which probably belonged to either one of the dead tourists or one of the rescuers who worked at the site of the emergency in 1959. It was also possible to find metal spikes that were stuffed on climbing boots. It is noteworthy that, according to experts, neither rescuers nor tourists had such shoes. Pieces of molten aluminum were also found. All this helped to detect metal detectors. There is reason to believe that these things are of those times: the Dyatlov Pass is a remote place where no one walks."
This time my translated page came up as metal spikes but not where they were found. Interesting that pieces of molten aluminum were found
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If you already know everything and are incapable of taking a second look at something…. why are you here?
В качестве культурного обмена. Это - шутка.
Хотелось личным усилиям выяснить - почему ушел Борзенков В.А. Это первое. Он тратил такое дорогое для него время жизни - чтобы помочь вам с пониманием. Когда у человека так со здоровьем - то это равноценно подвигу. С наших русских понятий.
Потом хотелось понять - что и почему вы тут думаете. Это тоже выяснила.
Да, я пишу - потому что Вы задали вопросы. Я - отвечаю. Болтливость для женщины - не страшный порок...
As a cultural exchange. It's a joke.
I wanted to find out by personal efforts why V.A. Borzenkov left. This is the first. He spent such a precious time of his life - to help you with understanding. When a person is so healthy, it is equivalent to a feat. From our Russian concepts.
Then I wanted to understand - what and why you think here. Found this out too.
Yes, I'm writing - because you asked questions. I answer. Talkativeness for a woman is not a terrible vice ...
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What's the lie about the Kennedy assassination?
If you have something to reveal, why not reveal it. There's been lots of talk but nothing is getting said. I personally could do without all the GIFs and video links that mean nothing. I have to be honest, it's getting tedious. If you have some kind of revelation, just spit it out.
Кеннеди и подробности его гибели - были приведены как пример, где тоже можно развивать разные идеи и версии. В зависимости от того, сколько фактов отбрасывать и как их фильтровать. Хотя это очень богатая на фактическую часть история.
Kennedy and the details of his death were given as an example where different ideas and versions can also be developed. Depending on how many facts to discard and how to filter them. Although this is a very rich history in the actual part.
По поводу видео и GIF. У них та же роль, что и у смайлов. Это иногда - ирония, сарказм и даже отчаяние. Приходишь к мысли - что зрительный ряд видимо пояснит лучше чем буквы. Картинку трудно понять неправильно. Потому что лично я беру её из такого материала, который точно имеет родной английский язык. Подтекст - будет понятен и однозначен.
About video and GIF. They have the same role as emoticons. This is sometimes - irony, sarcasm and even despair. You come to the conclusion that the visuals will probably explain better than the letters. The picture is hard to misunderstand. Because personally I take it from such material, which is definitely native English. Subtext - will be clear and unambiguous.
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About falling from a tree:
1. according to my version, the guys climbed the cedar to escape from the dogs of the liquidators. on the faces and hands of the guys there are many dog bite marks, dog claws and dog jaw marks.
2. the liquidators began shooting at the tree (it was forbidden to shoot at the guys, since this was an obvious murder and it would be easy to determine such a murder).
Later, cartridge casings were found under the cedar.
3. The guys went down from the cedar, probably fell, got bruises, but not very serious.
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About falling from a tree:
1. according to my version, the guys climbed the cedar to escape from the dogs of the liquidators. on the faces and hands of the guys there are many dog bite marks, dog claws and dog jaw marks.
2. the liquidators began shooting at the tree (it was forbidden to shoot at the guys, since this was an obvious murder and it would be easy to determine such a murder).
Later, cartridge casings were found under the cedar.
3. The guys went down from the cedar, probably fell, got bruises, but not very serious.
This is your theory but backed up by what evidence? If they shot at the tree would there not be bullet holes? Or empty shells ?
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What's the lie about the Kennedy assassination?
If you have something to reveal, why not reveal it. There's been lots of talk but nothing is getting said. I personally could do without all the GIFs and video links that mean nothing. I have to be honest, it's getting tedious. If you have some kind of revelation, just spit it out.
Кеннеди и подробности его гибели - были приведены как пример, где тоже можно развивать разные идеи и версии. В зависимости от того, сколько фактов отбрасывать и как их фильтровать. Хотя это очень богатая на фактическую часть история.
Kennedy and the details of his death were given as an example where different ideas and versions can also be developed. Depending on how many facts to discard and how to filter them. Although this is a very rich history in the actual part.
По поводу видео и GIF. У них та же роль, что и у смайлов. Это иногда - ирония, сарказм и даже отчаяние. Приходишь к мысли - что зрительный ряд видимо пояснит лучше чем буквы. Картинку трудно понять неправильно. Потому что лично я беру её из такого материала, который точно имеет родной английский язык. Подтекст - будет понятен и однозначен.
About video and GIF. They have the same role as emoticons. This is sometimes - irony, sarcasm and even despair. You come to the conclusion that the visuals will probably explain better than the letters. The picture is hard to misunderstand. Because personally I take it from such material, which is definitely native English. Subtext - will be clear and unambiguous.
To be honest the GIFs and video's don't translate well. There open to speculation. Probably better to keep things more factual. I like humour but some of it I don't understand .
There's loads of different examples//mysteies pyramid's, 911, etc.we have a facility to discuss these topics outwith .
Let's just keep on the dp9. Keep it as factual as we can , avoid giant leaps of speculation unless anyone has serious inside knowledge.
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This is your theory but backed up by what evidence? If they shot at the tree would there not be bullet holes? Or empty shells ?
ABOUT FALLING FROM A TREE
1 The fact that the guys climbed a tree is a reliable fact. Investigator Lev Ivanov wrote about this in his article.
2. But why climb a tree? Only in order to hide from someone, to hide, to escape.
3. The fact that the tree was shot is a probability, since there were branches and knots lying at the bottom, they could have been broken off by bullets. I repeat: shell casings were found under the cedar.
4. The fact that the guys were fleeing from dogs is a high probability, because their faces and hands had traces of dog bites and claws. See my version, there are photos attached. It is known that the court medical expert wrote to the court-medical examination not the whole truth.
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Let's just keep on the dp9. Keep it as factual as we can , avoid giant leaps of speculation unless anyone has serious inside knowledge.
Я вычитала в Вашем тексте - про скачки спекуляции. Сужу и думаю - где это у меня и когда было? Вот уж никогда - не искала славы или материальной выгоды. Мое имя-то настоящее стало известно только потому, что заводила на ресурсах подруг по мнению и мы переписывались вне форума. Я никогда не отступалась от своих принципов. И да. Я не выбираю между между солгать и сказать правду в лицо. Чего бы мне не стоила потом эта правда в лицо.
Я вообще считаю, что ключ в руки от этой тайны Перевала Дятлова дадут самому бескорыстному человеку. Любая корысть - и двери закрываются. Тайна уходит на дно реки времени.
I read in your text - about the jumps of speculation. I judge and think - where do I have it and when was it? That's really never - not looking for fame or material gain. My real name became known only because I made friends on the resources in my opinion and we corresponded outside the forum. I have never deviated from my principles. And yes. I don't choose between lying and telling the truth to my face. What would I not cost then this truth in the face.
In general, I believe that the key to this mystery of the Dyatlov Pass will be given to the most disinterested person. Any self-interest - and the doors are closed. The secret goes to the bottom of the river of time.
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This is your theory but backed up by what evidence? If they shot at the tree would there not be bullet holes? Or empty shells ?
1 The fact that the guys climbed a tree is a reliable fact. Investigator Lev Ivanov wrote about this in his article.
2. But why climb a tree? Only in order to hide from someone, to hide, to escape.
3. The fact that the tree was shot is a probability, since there were branches and knots lying at the bottom, they could have been broken off by bullets. I repeat: shell casings were found under the cedar.
4. The fact that the guys were fleeing from dogs is a high probability, because their faces and hands had traces of dog bites and claws. See my version, there are photos attached. It is known that the court medical expert wrote to the court-medical examination not the whole truth.
Its worth exploring all possibilities thumb1
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This is your theory but backed up by what evidence? If they shot at the tree would there not be bullet holes? Or empty shells ?
ABOUT FALLING FROM A TREE
1 The fact that the guys climbed a tree is a reliable fact. Investigator Lev Ivanov wrote about this in his article.
2. But why climb a tree? Only in order to hide from someone, to hide, to escape.
3. The fact that the tree was shot is a probability, since there were branches and knots lying at the bottom, they could have been broken off by bullets. I repeat: shell casings were found under the cedar.
4. The fact that the guys were fleeing from dogs is a high probability, because their faces and hands had traces of dog bites and claws. See my version, there are photos attached. It is known that the court medical expert wrote to the court-medical examination not the whole truth.
Perhaps climb the tree to get wood that could burn? The branches from the tree were the ones in the fire I believe?
Where are the links to the shell casings being found? Plus there should be lead bullets in the tree? Is it single 7.62 bullets or shot gun shells?
How is it known that the court medical expert did not write the whole truth?
If dogs were chasing them , why did the dogs not catch up with them before the ceder tree? And what marks from the photos show dog bites?
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Let's just keep on the dp9. Keep it as factual as we can , avoid giant leaps of speculation unless anyone has serious inside knowledge.
Я вычитала в Вашем тексте - про скачки спекуляции. Сужу и думаю - где это у меня и когда было? Вот уж никогда - не искала славы или материальной выгоды. Мое имя-то настоящее стало известно только потому, что заводила на ресурсах подруг по мнению и мы переписывались вне форума. Я никогда не отступалась от своих принципов. И да. Я не выбираю между между солгать и сказать правду в лицо. Чего бы мне не стоила потом эта правда в лицо.
Я вообще считаю, что ключ в руки от этой тайны Перевала Дятлова дадут самому бескорыстному человеку. Любая корысть - и двери закрываются. Тайна уходит на дно реки времени.
I read in your text - about the jumps of speculation. I judge and think - where do I have it and when was it? That's really never - not looking for fame or material gain. My real name became known only because I made friends on the resources in my opinion and we corresponded outside the forum. I have never deviated from my principles. And yes. I don't choose between lying and telling the truth to my face. What would I not cost then this truth in the face.
In general, I believe that the key to this mystery of the Dyatlov Pass will be given to the most disinterested person. Any self-interest - and the doors are closed. The secret goes to the bottom of the river of time.
I honestly haven't a clue what you're trying to communicate. Please say what mean. I'm fed up of the guessing game.
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Where are the links to the shell casings being found? Plus there should be lead bullets in the tree? Is it single 7.62 bullets or shot gun shells?How is it known that the court medical expert did not write the whole truth?
If dogs were chasing them , why did the dogs not catch up with them before the ceder tree? And what marks from the photos show dog bites?
1. The link to the found cartridges is the attached screenshot. In 2016, the casings under the cedar and the rocket launcher were discovered by a research expedition.
2. The fact that the medical expert did not write the whole truth is obvious, since Prosecutor Klinov stood over him and dictated his will what to write and what not. This is a well-known, indisputable fact. The Dyatlovtsev case was under the control of the regional committee and Kirilenko personally, investigator Korotaev, prosecutor Okishev and Lev Ivanov said about it in his article in 1990, he wrote "I have one excuse: I did not fulfill my will"
3. About dog bites - go to my page "State order for liquidation" There are many photos confirming the presence of dog bites.
(https://i.ibb.co/8j7gspK/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K9rxhk0)
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terrible translation, a lot of things are not translated correctly!!!!
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I honestly haven't a clue what you're trying to communicate. Please say what mean. I'm fed up of the guessing game.
why do you pay attention to trolling?
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If they had fallen from the tree, there would have been fractures or cracks in the bones... They didn't fall, but it seems like they were caught and pulled....!!!So the unknown force came and found one or two of them in the tree and pulled them down. On top of the possible fire...The deaths of these two Yuri's are very interesting...
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If they had fallen from the tree, there would have been fractures or cracks in the bones... They didn't fall, but it seems like they were caught and pulled....!!!So the unknown force came and found one or two of them in the tree and pulled them down. On top of the possible fire...The deaths of these two Yuri's are very interesting...
The fire was right under the tree. The two Yuri's withdrew over the fire. They stayed there for a while. Georgiy must have bitten his finger here in pain...The two of them couldn't move much from the forceful grip. They also sweated because of fear and excitement. Sweat and inability to move caused them to die of cold.
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If we find out where the burnt points on the two Yuri are, we can understand how they were pulled from the tree and what angle they fell to the ground!!! However, two possible Yuri's shouted as they fell into the fire and burned.
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However, two possible Yuri's shouted as they fell into the fire and burned. The group of 4 heard this sound and they went there and took them from the fire and took off their clothes because they were dead. But the group of 4 must have guessed that the unknown power would be there. How dare you go there in such a situation???!!!Because it can kill you too!!! Maybe Ludmina was naked and was very cold. But they could still give their outer clothes to Ludmina instead of going there. Because Semyon and Tibo were fully dressed. Kolevatov was also well dressed. My guess is that the Mansi found them and took them over the fire and brought them together. And they stole their clothes!!!Were the two Yuri's clothes found in the tent or the others? Or was it a lie saying it was found(?)!!!It is necessary to investigate it thoroughly...
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If we find out where the burnt points on the two Yuri are, we can understand how they were pulled from the tree and what angle they fell to the ground!!! However, two possible Yuri's shouted as they fell into the fire and burned.
If I remember correctly that's part of the autopsy. Go and read it? There's nothing to "find out".
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If we find out where the burnt points on the two Yuri are, we can understand how they were pulled from the tree and what angle they fell to the ground!!! However, two possible Yuri's shouted as they fell into the fire and burned.
If I remember correctly that's part of the autopsy. Go and read it? There's nothing to "find out".
I didn't use that word in that sense. I used it in the sense of precisely detecting the burn places. It is very normal for some words to be misunderstood. This is especially common in translations.
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There is a burn across the entire surface of the left anticnemion with a size of 31 x 10 cm with parchment density. In the lower third of the left shin is of a brown-black color with charred tissue and and bursting skin, then in the middle third and upper third the burn surface is bright red and light brown. On the rear inside surface of the left shin there is an abrasions of dark brown color with parchment density and sizes of 8 x 1.3 cm, 4 x 1.5 cm, and 2 x 1 cm. The rear of the left foot is dark brown in color with subcutaneous defects of the epidermis with a size of 10 x 4 cm. The back of the second toe is charred and the skin is dark brown in color and tight when palpated.
From the autopsy of Krivonishenko
The autopsy of Doroshenko does mention a burnt sock, but no burnt areas on the body. At least if I didn't miss it while skimming the text just now.
You can as well look here (https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Doroshenko (https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Doroshenko)) and here (https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Krivonischenko (https://dyatlovpass.com/death?flp=1#Krivonischenko)).
How much more precision do you want to have? dunno1
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I do not have the time to read all the case files and testimonies again. I specifically remember things regarding the tree and the height to which branches were found broken.
We have more pictures looking up the tree then we do the state of the tent when found….. let that sink in a moment.
(https://i.ibb.co/cYQYvVj/41-D2-B1-B7-2-C78-41-BE-9989-7213-F8-CF2-E87.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/gwBVP8w/66-FEE3-B9-EDFC-4-A36-88-F7-22-E46-E6-B04-EC.png) (https://ibb.co/S09rdg0)
Вот эти ветки, которые обозначены красным цветом, сломаны ветром.
These branches, which are marked in red, are broken by the wind.
These red circles were intended for a different post and a different purpose. Pay no attention to them for this discussion.
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Those branches! Only a madman would stomp on them or hang underneath to break one off. Those are big! Having one or two men up in a tree bouncing and pulling on living wood, touches the limit of credulity. Further, if the hikers walked to the forest, as evidenced by prints in,snow, they were rational people.,Climb up a tree and do gymnastics? A,great way to hurt your favorite muscle...and no doctor around.
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I honestly haven't a clue what you're trying to communicate. Please say what mean. I'm fed up of the guessing game.
1) По все видимости - каждый из нас сталкивается с неточностями перевода.
2) Я давала Вам ссылку на свою версию и мы с Вами обсуждали триггер-событие, с которого началась гибель группы Дятлова. Что Вы поняли из моих объяснений?
1) Apparently - each of us is faced with translation inaccuracies.
2) I gave you a link to my version and we discussed the trigger event that started the death of the Dyatlov group. What did you understand from my explanations?
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Those branches! Only a madman would stomp on them or hang underneath to break one off. Those are big! Having one or two men up in a tree bouncing and pulling on living wood, touches the limit of credulity. Further, if the hikers walked to the forest, as evidenced by prints in,snow, they were rational people.,Climb up a tree and do gymnastics? A,great way to hurt your favorite muscle...and no doctor around.
Очень здравомысляще. Дров поблизости было достаточно - чтоб не лазать за ними на кедр. А вот если тающий снег с веток - заливает с трудом разведенный костер, то тогда дать бой противным лишним веткам - имеет смысл. Я это пишу вроде как в пятый раз. Интересно - когда услышат...
Very sane. There was enough firewood nearby - so as not to climb the cedar for them. But if the melting snow from the branches floods the fire with difficulty, then it makes sense to give battle to the nasty extra branches. I am writing this for the fifth time. Interesting - when they hear ...
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Про находку гильз и патронов от ракетниц
About finding shells and cartridges from rocket launchers
https://ura.news/news/1052259819
«У кедра, где тогда нашли тела двух Юр — Кривонищенко и Дорошенко, мы откопали два старых советских сигнальных патрона, — рассказал „URA.Ru“ руководитель исследователей. — Обнаружили их металлодетектором, откапывали уже лопатами. Этим подтверждается, что это то самое место: видимо, когда нашли их тела, отстреляли две ракеты».
“Near the cedar, where the bodies of two Yurs, Krivonischenko and Doroshenko, were then found, we dug up two old Soviet signal cartridges,” the head of the researchers told URA.Ru. - We found them with a metal detector, they dug them out with shovels. This confirms that this is the same place: apparently, when their bodies were found, two rockets were fired.”
Эта информация совершенно стыкуется с описанием проведения поисков. Поисковики пользовались ракетницами и это закреплено в Уголовном Деле. Они запрашивают в радиограммах завоза патронов для ракетниц. Мало того - у них там было и другое оружие. И они безусловно - иногда стреляли из него. Это тоже отражено в материалах дела.
This information fits perfectly with the description of the search. The search engines used rocket launchers and this is enshrined in the Criminal Case. They request in the radiograms the delivery of cartridges for rocket launchers. Not only that, they also had other weapons there. And they certainly - sometimes fired from it. This is also reflected in the case file.
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Вот про гильзы от пуль
http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_display1.php?article_id=6389&sort=rate_article
В «зоне палатки» Шура также нашёл старый алюминиевый котелок, помятый камнями. И подозрительно «свежую» ещё блестящую пулю калибра 7,62 с 6-ю нарезами. В прессе и на ТВ появились сообщения, что пуля – от «пулемёта Калашникова», хотя «пулемёт Калашникова» появился только в 1961 году, а в 1959-м его не было. По книге «Материальная часть стрелкового оружия» издания 1959 года (пензенского высшего артиллерийского инженерного училища) я установил, что конструкция хвостовика (цилиндрический, без трассера) и наконечника этой пули (наконечник расширяющееся охотничьей пули) не соответствует боевым пулям для АКМ, СКС и пулемёта Дегтярёва, которые в 1959 г. применялись в войсках. Число нарезов (6) также не соответствует числу нарезов (4) отечественного боевого и охотничьего оружия этого калибра. Поэтому ясно, что пуля эта – от какого-то импортного охотничьего карабина. По тому, как она сохранилась и не повредилась от удара о камни, ясно, что ею выстрелили вверх (для сигнала, салюта, по птице и т.п.), и она упала на излёте меж камней через слой мха с небольшой скоростью. Поэтому как-то связывать эту пулю с Трагедией 1959 года неправомерно. А сообщения и выводы о каких-то находках надо прежде проверить на достоверность, чем «бросать» в СМИ.
Надо понимать, что вообще все такие «артефакты» без проверки того, откуда, когда и как они произошли, - это никакие не улики, не доказательства и не «исторические экспонаты». Вот когда точно установлено происхождение, возраст вещи и история её возникновения и появления в данном месте, и её связь с конкретными событиями, - вот только тогда эта вещь может быть и «уликой», и «доказательством», и «историческим экспонатом» для экспозиции.
(http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_img/6389/f_24.jpg)
In the "tent zone" Shura also found an old aluminum pot dented with stones. And a suspiciously "fresh" still shiny bullet of 7.62 caliber with 6 grooves.
Кедр - сильно ниже и сильно в стороне.
Cedar - much lower and much to the side.
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Не прицепилась фотка пули и нельзя редактировать. Перевести тоже все не успела. Переводите - сами.
Вот фото ссылкою
The photo of the bullet did not attach and cannot be edited. I didn't manage to translate everything either. Translate yourself.
Here is a photo link
http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_img/6389/f_24.jpg
http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_img/6389/f_25.jpg
То что на перевале постоянно стреляли - это не секрет. Даже группа Якименко - давала салют из ружья. Так делали и другие группы, кто брал оружие. Это есть описанием в их отчетах.
The fact that they were constantly shooting at the pass is not a secret. Even Yakimenko's group - gave a salute from a gun. So did other groups who took up arms. This is the description in their reports.
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У меня просьба ко всем, кто находит аргументы Аннушки Русских - интересными. Проверяйте и требуйте ссылки.
Вам предоставят фрагмент текста картинкой так - что будет похоже на правду. Но это - правдою не будет.
Как с этими гильзами, которые не у кедра, а на месте палатки. И с этими патронами от ракетниц, которым очень активно пользовались во время поисков - сами поисковики. Даже журналист Г.К.Григорьев за свое недолгое присутствие на поисках - вспоминает про выстрелы из ракетниц.
На сим раскланиваюсь и не поминайте лихом.
I have a request to everyone who finds Annushka Russkikh's arguments interesting. Check and request links.
You will be provided with a piece of text as a picture so that it will look like the truth. But this will not be true.
As with these shells, which are not near the cedar, but in place of the tent. And with these cartridges from rocket launchers, which were very actively used during the search, the search engines themselves. Even the journalist G.K. Grigoriev, for his short presence on the search, recalls shots from rocket launchers.
I bow to this and do not remember dashingly.
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У меня просьба ко всем, кто находит аргументы Аннушки Русских - интересными. Проверяйте и требуйте ссылки.
Вам предоставят фрагмент текста картинкой так - что будет похоже на правду. Но это - правдою не будет.
Thank you for mentioning my version. I will be happy to provide all the links. My book is not my fantasy, the whole book is based on references to the case materials, to the most important witnesses: Yu Yudin, Slobtsov, In Askinazi. From V. Askinaji, F received a delightful review of my version.
Quote from the review by V. M. Askinadzi (a former student of UPI, the search engine that found Luda Dubinina):
"....I think that subsequent authors will no longer dare
to write "novels". To be read, you need to write them
better than you, which is very, very difficult!..."
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I ask the moderator to return the "CORRECT TEXT" function to the forum, because the translation is sometimes not quite correct, for example, in the previous post the translator translated the text
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Those branches! Only a madman would stomp on them or hang underneath to break one off. Those are big! Having one or two men up in a tree bouncing and pulling on living wood, touches the limit of credulity. Further, if the hikers walked to the forest, as evidenced by prints in,snow, they were rational people.,Climb up a tree and do gymnastics? A,great way to hurt your favorite muscle...and no doctor around.
Очень здравомысляще. Дров поблизости было достаточно - чтоб не лазать за ними на кедр. А вот если тающий снег с веток - заливает с трудом разведенный костер, то тогда дать бой противным лишним веткам - имеет смысл. Я это пишу вроде как в пятый раз. Интересно - когда услышат...
Very sane. There was enough firewood nearby - so as not to climb the cedar for them. But if the melting snow from the branches floods the fire with difficulty, then it makes sense to give battle to the nasty extra branches. I am writing this for the fifth time. Interesting - when they hear ...
Wow, now I finally get, what you wanted to say. This is an intriguing idea.
From my personal experience with fires, I'm not convinced it was possible for a fire to melt snow on branches some meters above. Unless it was some kind of pyre. But then again, I never tried it, I usually just cook on fires. But those are of a size that I can touch the upper part of the pot at about half a meter above the top of the fire.
I'd really like to give it a try sometime. But we get not enough snow here. :(
I never heard mentioning of shooting or rocket launchers. I need to look for it.
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Those branches! Only a madman would stomp on them or hang underneath to break one off. Those are big! Having one or two men up in a tree bouncing and pulling on living wood, touches the limit of credulity. Further, if the hikers walked to the forest, as evidenced by prints in,snow, they were rational people.,Climb up a tree and do gymnastics? A,great way to hurt your favorite muscle...and no doctor around.
Очень здравомысляще. Дров поблизости было достаточно - чтоб не лазать за ними на кедр. А вот если тающий снег с веток - заливает с трудом разведенный костер, то тогда дать бой противным лишним веткам - имеет смысл. Я это пишу вроде как в пятый раз. Интересно - когда услышат...
Very sane. There was enough firewood nearby - so as not to climb the cedar for them. But if the melting snow from the branches floods the fire with difficulty, then it makes sense to give battle to the nasty extra branches. I am writing this for the fifth time. Interesting - when they hear ...
Wow, now I finally get, what you wanted to say. This is an intriguing idea.
From my personal experience with fires, I'm not convinced it was possible for a fire to melt snow on branches some meters above. Unless it was some kind of pyre. But then again, I never tried it, I usually just cook on fires. But those are of a size that I can touch the upper part of the pot at about half a meter above the top of the fire.
I'd really like to give it a try sometime. But we get not enough snow here. :(
I never heard mentioning of shooting or rocket launchers. I need to look for it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Build_a_Fire
У нас во всех правилах для туристов - велят так размещать костры под деревьям зимою, чтобы снег с веток - не заливал огонь. Правила от Лукоянова П.И. например.
We have all the rules for tourists - they are ordered to place fires under the trees in winter so that the snow from the branches does not fill the fire. Rules from Lukoyanov P.I. for example.
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It is time for experimentation with fire in snow. Enough talk.
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It is time for experimentation with fire in snow. Enough talk.
ЛУКОЯНОВ П.И. ЗИМНИЕ СПОРТИВНЫЕ ПОХОДЫ
Lukoyanov P.I. WINTER SPORT HIKING
https://tourlib.net/books_tourism/lukoyanov705.htm
Если отрыв от группы произошел недалеко от леса, то там и надо устраиваться на ночлег, разведя костер и устроив заслон. Опять же предположим, что у вас нет ни топорика, ни ножовки, а есть только ножик. Прежде всего наломайте лапника и отметьте им свой путь к лесу - это поможет товарищам из группы найти вас. Затем постарайтесь отыскать разлапистую ель, нижние ветки которой лежат на снегу или засыпаны снегом. Под ними, как правило, снега меньше, и он рыхлый, его можно умять или разгрести, используя, например, миску. Вот и готово укрытие, но не забудьте обязательно отряхнуть ветки, иначе, когда костер разгорится, снег обрушится и погасит огонь или закапает частым дождем. Для ростра (см. рис. 109, ж) можно использовать нижние сухие ветки, а для его разжигания - древесный мох, тонкие сучки и бумагу. Не поленитесь заготовить на ночь достаточно дров и пользуйтесь ими экономно. В укрытии лучше сесть спиной к дереву. Разводить костер непосредственно у дерева опасно - нижние ветки могут вспыхнуть, а огонь - перекинуться на вещи.
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Those branches! Only a madman would stomp on them or hang underneath to break one off. Those are big! Having one or two men up in a tree bouncing and pulling on living wood, touches the limit of credulity. Further, if the hikers walked to the forest, as evidenced by prints in,snow, they were rational people.,Climb up a tree and do gymnastics? A,great way to hurt your favorite muscle...and no doctor around.
Очень здравомысляще. Дров поблизости было достаточно - чтоб не лазать за ними на кедр. А вот если тающий снег с веток - заливает с трудом разведенный костер, то тогда дать бой противным лишним веткам - имеет смысл. Я это пишу вроде как в пятый раз. Интересно - когда услышат...
Very sane. There was enough firewood nearby - so as not to climb the cedar for them. But if the melting snow from the branches floods the fire with difficulty, then it makes sense to give battle to the nasty extra branches. I am writing this for the fifth time. Interesting - when they hear ...
Wow, now I finally get, what you wanted to say. This is an intriguing idea.
From my personal experience with fires, I'm not convinced it was possible for a fire to melt snow on branches some meters above. Unless it was some kind of pyre. But then again, I never tried it, I usually just cook on fires. But those are of a size that I can touch the upper part of the pot at about half a meter above the top of the fire.
I'd really like to give it a try sometime. But we get not enough snow here. :(
I never heard mentioning of shooting or rocket launchers. I need to look for it.
If I understand Почемучка correctly, then I think "flare gun" is a better translation than "rocket launcher".
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If I understand Почемучка correctly, then I think "flare gun" is a better translation than "rocket launcher".
(https://one-click.com.ua/images/ab__webp/blog/62/signalno-shumovoy-pistolet-i-osobennosti-ego-ispolzovaniya_jpg.webp)
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If I understand Почемучка correctly, then I think "flare gun" is a better translation than "rocket launcher".
https://warfor.me/signalnyj-pistolet-shpagina-spsh-44-sssr/
(https://warfor.me/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/120137340-1400x1050.jpg)
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Yes, Почемучка, you got it!
Да, Почемучка, ты понял!
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I read on that other forum that is in russian that there was a 2009 expedition to the pass and they found a tree climber's boot spike in the cedar and non of the skiers or searchers had such things. I can't find it now but could the broken branches be from someone climbing other than the skiers?
Вас опять подвел гуглтранслит. Или же Ваше желание все понимать не так как написано. Никакого шипа в древесине кедра - не находили. На местности где растет кедр - находили такой шип. Но это вполне понятно. В команду Кикоина входили как раз альпинисты. Они могли брать на поиски свое снаряжение под свои планы. Например лазать для обследования по останцам Отортена. Ведь записка группы Гудкова была снята именно на останцах Отортена. Могли быт планы лучше чем группа Аксельрода - проверить там.
Google Translit failed you again. Or your desire to understand everything is not as it is written. No thorn was found in the cedar wood. In the area where the cedar grows - they found such a thorn. But this is quite understandable. The Kikoin team included just climbers. They could take their equipment on searches according to their plans. For example, to climb for examination on the remains of Otorten. After all, the note of the Gudkov group was filmed precisely on the remnants of Otorten. There could have been better plans than Axelrod's group - check there.
Google translated останцам as "remains* which all English understand as ruins, or what has left from ruined thing. Especially this word is used about decomposed humans. " human remains"... So I am waiting for more corpses of dead alpinists to appear now. Translator is horrible for English. It lacks words. I suffer talk in nuances or methaphor in English. Autopsies and diaries in English are total mess. Not to mention dr. Rennaisance and Dyatlovs as Woodpeckers, searchers come as search engines??? Google thinks only machine is a searcher. That is the English. I speak it and still got grey hair. So you will need thick nerves to explain the words English lacks , most is one word fits all. Unbeatable language .
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I am a wee bit lost here. What's the debate over the branches and fire?
Shes is putting all her eggs in one basket getting her information from someone who arrived on the scene later and cherry picking information. The first person to arrive at the site she is disregarding, then patronizing non russian members in a condescending manor on the premises that everything we read is flawed translation. As if we are mindless drones who need a “brain nanny”…. Yeah I read that before she edited her post.
When I suggested everyone go back to the basics and explore the original case files…. It’s specifically because TEDDYS SITE CASE FILES WERE 100% TRANSLATED BY HER AND ARE 100% ACCURATE.
Im simply no longer playing games. Ive been poking around the site and engaging with members, posting sensitive topics that usually draw a divide in effort to discern who’s causing problems. In most cases Почемучка elicits a negative response with arrogance, and narcissism.
I speak Bulgarian and going in English my language become arrogant. We speak with many nuances and with as Bulgarians all have not smiley but a la dr. House type of expression and humour. Just want to clarify this as speaker of Slavic language how much both ways of talking and houmour are different. You will see us as a grumpy nation ,, we see you as silly smiling. This is not agaunst you, just want to help you why translated Russian might sound offensive. 5 years I live in UK and still all are offended if I don't play the national rules of fun and smile. It is hard on me and not intentional. Hope that this helps a bit, you are smart and clever thinking , but I am reading you since 2018 and I speak English as a second language to avoid google and escape from using Bulgarian style while speaking to English speakers. My parents can't and they sound as bitter while not.
All the best!
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Shes is putting all her eggs in one basket getting her information from someone who arrived on the scene later and cherry picking information. The first person to arrive at the site she is disregarding, then patronizing non russian members in a condescending manor on the premises that everything we read is flawed translation. As if we are mindless drones who need a “brain nanny”…. Yeah I read that before she edited her post.
When I suggested everyone go back to the basics and explore the original case files…. It’s specifically because TEDDYS SITE CASE FILES WERE 100% TRANSLATED BY HER AND ARE 100% ACCURATE.
Im simply no longer playing games. Ive been poking around the site and engaging with members, posting sensitive topics that usually draw a divide in effort to discern who’s causing problems. In most cases Почемучка elicits a negative response with arrogance, and narcissism.
Ну понятно. Только почему Вы не сделали скрин - до того как я отредактировала? У Вас были бы доказательства и у меня - алиби.
Это первое. Второе. Вас как американца скорее бы угнетала ужасная неправда про тайну убийства Кеннеди? Вот взяли бы русские и давай сочинять на эту достаточно освещенную в фактах тему - всякие странные истории. Так с Перевалом Дятлова - именно так.
Третье. Информация на этом ресурсе неплохая. Но - безупречности нет. Вас выручает то, что есть именно оригиналы. В глазах русских выручает. Вас может не интересовать наша оценка. Но Вы же хотите раскрыть русскую тайну? Или не хотите раскрывать?
Вы определитесь - что Вам предпочтительнее? Русских на форуме - и так полтора землекопа. Борзенков В.А.ушел, а это был - супер знаток темы. Я - пыль на его подошвах. Русские могут Вам - не мешать. Не пытаться заставлять изучать и сводить в одну понятную картину имеющиеся факты. Если фантазии и надуманность - это приемлемый метод: воля Ваша. Раскланяемся и удалимся.
Well, okay. But why didn't you take a screenshot - before I edited it? You would have proof and I would have an alibi.
This is the first. Second. As an American, would you rather be oppressed by the terrible lie about the mystery of the Kennedy assassination? The Russians would take it and let's write all sorts of strange stories on this topic, which is sufficiently covered in facts. So with the Dyatlov Pass - that's right.
Third. The information on this site is good. But there is no perfection. You are rescued by the fact that there are exactly originals. Helps out in the eyes of the Russians. You may not be interested in our assessment. But do you want to reveal the Russian secret? Or don't want to reveal?
You decide - what do you prefer? Russians on the forum - and so one and a half excavators. Borzenkov V.A. left, and he was a super connoisseur of the topic. I am the dust on his soles. The Russians can not interfere with you. Do not try to force to study and reduce the available facts into one clear picture. If fantasies and artificiality are an acceptable method: your will. We bow and leave.
П.С. У меня сейчас сессия закончилась. Поэтому опять редакция с вытягиванием написанного из кэша.
P.S. My session is now over. Therefore, again, the edition with pulling what was written from the cache.
Borzhenikov is very missed. To not cause more drama I think you know after what conversations it happened. It would be nice to see him again here. He answered me long explanations with pictures and all, learned so much of his knowledge - gold lost :(
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It seems to me that if someone climbed a tree and took a tumble, the next order of business would be to bandage the wound. Then a crutch or a litter would be fashioned from wood and used to get medical help. None of these things were in evidence,,so we can effectively rule out tree trauma.
Any fire is also a signal fire. If the DP9 made it, that would be bad for would be assassins. I have a sneaking suspicion that the DP9 never made a fire because they couldn't get one started. What the researchers found was started by someone else at another time. If there was no fire, there was not much need to hang around the tree at all.
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It seems to me that if someone climbed a tree and took a tumble, the next order of business would be to bandage the wound. Then a crutch or a litter would be fashioned from wood and used to get medical help. None of these things were in evidence,,so we can effectively rule out tree trauma.
Any fire is also a signal fire. If the DP9 made it, that would be bad for would be assassins. I have a sneaking suspicion that the DP9 never made a fire because they couldn't get one started. What the researchers found was started by someone else at another time. If there was no fire, there was not much need to hang around the tree at all.
The main purpose of their coming to the tree was to observe the unknown force. Making a fire was just for warming up a little. The main purpose was not to start a fire. If people attacked them anyway, they would never light a fire and they would run away into the forest. But they only went a mile away and caught fire. When Yuri, who climbed the tree, could not see anything around the tent, they planned to return to the tent. Because the tent had life-saving supplies for them. shoes clothes lanterns blankets food etc....
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It seems to me that if someone climbed a tree and took a tumble, the next order of business would be to bandage the wound. Then a crutch or a litter would be fashioned from wood and used to get medical help. None of these things were in evidence,,so we can effectively rule out tree trauma.
Any fire is also a signal fire. If the DP9 made it, that would be bad for would be assassins. I have a sneaking suspicion that the DP9 never made a fire because they couldn't get one started. What the researchers found was started by someone else at another time. If there was no fire, there was not much need to hang around the tree at all.
The main purpose of their coming to the tree was to observe the unknown force. Making a fire was just for warming up a little. The main purpose was not to start a fire. If people attacked them anyway, they would never light a fire and they would run away into the forest. But they only went a mile away and caught fire. When Yuri, who climbed the tree, could not see anything around the tent, they planned to return to the tent. Because the tent had life-saving supplies for them. shoes clothes lanterns blankets food etc....
So far, so good. It seems we agree that nobody fell out of the tree. Personally, I think it unlikely that after walking a mile in adverse conditions, anyone would be warm and limber enough to climb up a tree. That said, the two reasons for doing it is to get wood or see something. See something when the light and blizzard permit it. Since they supposedly had fire, we can rule out aggressors. Then the only unknown compelling force would be a natural one...slab slip. Not much reason to climb a tree to see your tent, nine sets of tracks lead right back to it. Hmmm!
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That's right, GlennM. But getting a contradiction for a result means, that some of your premises must have been wrong.
This means, there must have been another "compelling force". Or maybe they didn't light a fire. Or maybe, they didn't put up the tent there in the first place.
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Or maybe they had a tent in the woods and a tree fell on on it, so someone climbs up another tree instead of lighting a fire and forgets to bring the camera for a great perspective photo. The would be an unknown compelling farce! shock1
In all seriousness, Missi, you are correct. There are certain assumptions that may be incorrect. We can verify or falsify each through our collective analysis. It gets down to human nature, but even that is suspect. What we would do at room temperature and what we would do in,subzero conditions may not equate.
What does equate is the individual and collective will to survive by any means at hand. For me, the survival value of climbing up any tree in winter is nil. Shelter, heating and eating are a priority. The last thing I would do is stop at that tree before I had a lean to or snow cave built or in the works. No tree is worth climbing if I can burn a whole sapling instead.
I suppose if we can take nothing as axiomatic, there is no way to proceed. Six decades of bickering tends to support that assertion.
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Actually, I don't see, why someone would climb that tree, either. But we don't know if someone really did. The climbing is also part of the assumptions and not a fact.
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Actually, I don't see, why someone would climb that tree, either. But we don't know if someone really did. The climbing is also part of the assumptions and not a fact.
Assuming the place of the tent is the assumption that the young people are walking Assuming they light the fire Assuming they come to the tree Assuming they climb the tree Assuming they tear the tent Assuming they walk together Assuming if everything is assumption what is the truth??? Is this all a scenario??? So someone killed them, tortured them and then threw them there??? If there were human hands in the incident, they would definitely and definitely destroy those corpses....There is absolutely no human factor in the incident...And nothing is conjecture...All are real. they must have lit the fire. Because why would other people light a fire there???But they needed fire. And they lit it up and planned what to do. They wanted to go back to the tent. Because they were suddenly unprepared. But they also wanted to know if the unknown force was still there. That's why Igor climbed the tree. He looked well. Checked. That's why he broke branches. To take a better look... Then when I can't see anything
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Actually, I don't see, why someone would climb that tree, either. But we don't know if someone really did. The climbing is also part of the assumptions and not a fact.
Assuming the place of the tent is the assumption that the young people are walking Assuming they light the fire Assuming they come to the tree Assuming they climb the tree Assuming they tear the tent Assuming they walk together Assuming if everything is assumption what is the truth??? Is this all a scenario??? So someone killed them, tortured them and then threw them there??? If there were human hands in the incident, they would definitely and definitely destroy those corpses....There is absolutely no human factor in the incident...And nothing is conjecture...All are real. they must have lit the fire. Because why would other people light a fire there???But they needed fire. And they lit it up and planned what to do. They wanted to go back to the tent. Because they were suddenly unprepared. But they also wanted to know if the unknown force was still there. That's why Igor climbed the tree. He looked well. Checked. That's why he broke branches. To take a better look... Then when I can't see anything
There ARE facts. For example it is a fact where the respective corpses were found. We have to distinguish between facts and nonfacts aka assumptions. There are assumptions, that are very plausible and most people agree on them. But when testing a theory, it is necessary to explain the facts, not necessarily all assumptions.
There are good explanations, why the fire was there, without them having lit it. They fit the theory, they origin from.
I'm also not convinced, that there was no other people involved. I find the theory presented in Teddy's book very plausible. It explains the fire, but no one climbed the tree.
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Actually, I don't see, why someone would climb that tree, either. But we don't know if someone really did. The climbing is also part of the assumptions and not a fact.
Assuming the place of the tent is the assumption that the young people are walking Assuming they light the fire Assuming they come to the tree Assuming they climb the tree Assuming they tear the tent Assuming they walk together Assuming if everything is assumption what is the truth??? Is this all a scenario??? So someone killed them, tortured them and then threw them there??? If there were human hands in the incident, they would definitely and definitely destroy those corpses....There is absolutely no human factor in the incident...And nothing is conjecture...All are real. they must have lit the fire. Because why would other people light a fire there???But they needed fire. And they lit it up and planned what to do. They wanted to go back to the tent. Because they were suddenly unprepared. But they also wanted to know if the unknown force was still there. That's why Igor climbed the tree. He looked well. Checked. That's why he broke branches. To take a better look... Then when I can't see anything
There ARE facts. For example it is a fact where the respective corpses were found. We have to distinguish between facts and nonfacts aka assumptions. There are assumptions, that are very plausible and most people agree on them. But when testing a theory, it is necessary to explain the facts, not necessarily all assumptions.
There are good explanations, why the fire was there, without them having lit it. They fit the theory, they origin from.
I'm also not convinced, that there was no other people involved. I find the theory presented in Teddy's book very plausible. It explains the fire, but no one climbed the tree.
You'll get nowhere with the mere fact of the corpse. We have to accept everything we see as fact...If the KGB wanted to kill them, they would have burned the bodies and incinerated them. Why would you leave? And it's unclear how Igor and the two Yuri died(?)... It looks like a shock wave(?) The heart stops suddenly...
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Yes, everything we see. But you immediately start assuming. I'm not sure, why the KGB should burn the corpses. But yes, I don't think it was them, either. That does not mean, that there are not other parties involved, that could have interfered.
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No body no crime?
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The lack of facts is also a fact.
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The lack of facts is also a fact.
You're right there. And said fact of lacking facts brings me to one of two possibilities:
A There was an involvement of someone or maybe a group of people. They tried to cover up what has happened.
B The investigation was one of the worst I've ever heard of.
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The lack of facts is also a fact.
You're right there. And said fact of lacking facts brings me to one of two possibilities:
A There was an involvement of someone or maybe a group of people. They tried to cover up what has happened.
B The investigation was one of the worst I've ever heard of.
A. Means, motive and opportunity.
B. It certainly has not weathered well.
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The lack of facts is also a fact.
You're right there. And said fact of lacking facts brings me to one of two possibilities:
A There was an involvement of someone or maybe a group of people. They tried to cover up what has happened.
B The investigation was one of the worst I've ever heard of.
A. Means, motive and opportunity.
B. It certainly has not weathered well.
Actually, I believe it's a mixture of both. I find Teddy's theory is pretty convincing.
A The motive is, the leading people of the area were afraid, that the death of the hikers was not completely due to natural circumstances, but there was an interference by the prospecting group. That leads to the fear of being held accountable and - as happened to others - being punished. Nobody wants to be punished, plus they all had families, they wanted to protect (at least from ending up without a father to provide money and therefore food).
The opportunity arises because they found the dead first or at least some of them. Customs and regulations allow for a silent "investigation" that was supposed to lead to the conclusion the hikers were frozen and a burying in Ivdel. It was common and no one would have suspected anything. If not the hikers had been registered as missed before they could find everyone, making it necessary to stage the scene in order to cover up all intervention up to this point.
The means were largely the structures of the time being, the size of the USSR and therefore the amount of different offices, committees and responsible people.
They were lucky, that the investigation was such a mess. Or maybe it wasn't luck in the first place, but it became that messy because of their interference.
I find it hard to explain A without B. It's easier the other way around.
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B The investigation was one of the worst I've ever heard of.
Вы имеете неверное представление, поскольку не смотрели - как расследовались другие дела в то время. Вы ничего и ни с чем не сравнивали. На то чтоб Вас убедить - недостаточно 2,5 минут что я имею на пост. Например, катастрофа вертолета Гладырева - тоже в части расследования имеет недостатки. А там - был Драпкин Л.Я.
You have the wrong idea, because you did not look at how other cases were being investigated at that time. You haven't compared anything to anything. In order to convince you, 2.5 minutes is not enough that I have for a post. For example, the crash of Gladyrev's helicopter also has shortcomings in terms of investigation. And there was Drapkin L.Ya.
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B The investigation was one of the worst I've ever heard of.
Вы имеете неверное представление, поскольку не смотрели - как расследовались другие дела в то время. Вы ничего и ни с чем не сравнивали. На то чтоб Вас убедить - недостаточно 2,5 минут что я имею на пост. Например, катастрофа вертолета Гладырева - тоже в части расследования имеет недостатки. А там - был Драпкин Л.Я.
You have the wrong idea, because you did not look at how other cases were being investigated at that time. You haven't compared anything to anything. In order to convince you, 2.5 minutes is not enough that I have for a post. For example, the crash of Gladyrev's helicopter also has shortcomings in terms of investigation. And there was Drapkin L.Ya.
You want to say, that investigations in the USSR were always or almost always as bad? Wow, you're right, I wouldn't have thought that and I have no other cases in the USSR to compare with. I compare with those I know, which are based in the western countries.
Nevertheless, it's still one of the worst investigations I came to know...
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You want to say, that investigations in the USSR were always or almost always as bad? Wow, you're right, I wouldn't have thought that and I have no other cases in the USSR to compare with. I compare with those I know, which are based in the western countries.
Nevertheless, it's still one of the worst investigations I came to know...
Честным было расследование преступления или фальшивым – зависело от заинтересованности власти КПСС. Если власти было выгодно утаивать и фальсифицировать дело – прокуроры и следовали выполняли команду партийцев. Так было с делом дятловцев. Имеются документы и свидетельства того, что власть контролировала дело, принуждала прокуроров фальсифицировать расследование и вела следствие в нужном направлении. Во времена власти КПСС – все структуры были в ее полном подчинении.
Если партийцы действительно хотели наказания преступников – то следовали добросовестно (а порой и рискуя своей жизнью) раскрывали дело и преступники были наказаны по суду. Как это было с реальной бандой убийц и грабителей «Черная кошка» и с бандой Леньки Пантелеева. Эта банда держала в страхе весь Петроград. И даже когда Ленька был застрелен чекистом – народ не верил и продолжал бояться. Тогда власти приказали выставить труп Леньки на всеобщее обозрение в морге Обуховской больницы. Есть и другие примеры честных расследований и поимки преступников, но, повторюсь, только в том случае, если власть приказывала поймать и наказать.
Whether the investigation of the crime was honest or fake depended on the interest of the CPSU authorities. If it was profitable for the authorities to conceal and falsify the case, the prosecutors followed the command of the party members. So it was with the Dyatlovtsev case. There are documents and evidence that the authorities controlled the case, forced prosecutors to falsify the investigation and conducted the investigation in the right direction. At the time of the power of the CPSU – all structures were in its complete subordination.
If the party members really wanted to punish the criminals, they followed the case in good faith (and sometimes risking their lives) and the criminals were punished by the court. As it was with the real gang of murderers and robbers "Black Cat" and with the gang of Lenka Panteleev. This gang kept the whole of Petrograd in fear. And even when Lenka was shot by a security officer, the people did not believe and continued to be afraid. Then the authorities ordered to put Lenka's corpse on public display in the morgue of the Obukhov hospital. There are other examples of honest investigations and the capture of criminals, but, again, only if the authorities ordered to catch and punish.
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You want to say, that investigations in the USSR were always or almost always as bad? Wow, you're right, I wouldn't have thought that and I have no other cases in the USSR to compare with. I compare with those I know, which are based in the western countries.
Nevertheless, it's still one of the worst investigations I came to know...
Небрежности Вы обнаружите - даже если пойдете с свой архив и там попросите дать Вам хоть одно дело по расследованию.
Мне пришлось до Вас - писать статью. Именно под Ваш вопрос. Там еще немного собрано - мы только начали мутить эту воду на свой вкус и цвет.
You will find negligence - even if you go to your archive and ask there to give you at least one investigation case.
I had to write an article before you. Just for your question.
There is still a little collected - we have just begun to muddy this water to our taste and color.
http://dyatlovpass1.ru/viewtopic.php?id=17#p43
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Thanks for the invitation, but I can't read russian (as of yet), so it'd be too difficult for me.
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Thanks for the invitation, but I can't read russian (as of yet), so it'd be too difficult for me.
У меня здесь всего 2,5 минуты - я даже не успеваю исправить орфографические ошибки.
Тем не менее - даже при отсутствии у Вас навыком общения с русским языком - Вы можете в свободную минуту: почитать то что я привожу в качестве примера.
Пример - гибель летчика, который тоже участвовал в поисках группы Дятлова.
У нас все по-честному. Я вынуждена читать все из иностранного что мне приводят как аргументы. Я в библиотеке Дрездена !!! - находила и скачивала книгу по истории коммунистической партии Германии. Читала и рассматривала иллюстрации. Это мне нужно было чтоб опровергнуть версию одного из русских авторов. Он писал что в той книге - есть доказательства его версии.
Эх, как я почитала эту книгу на немецком... Благо в школе учили этот язык. Нет ничего - невозможного.
I have only 2.5 minutes here - I don't even have time to correct spelling errors.
Nevertheless - even if you do not have the ability to communicate with the Russian language - you can in your spare time: read what I give as an example.
An example is the death of a pilot who also participated in the search for the Dyatlov group.
We are all fair. I am forced to read everything from a foreign language that is given to me as arguments. I'm in the Dresden library!!! - found and downloaded a book on the history of the Communist Party of Germany. Read and look at illustrations. I needed this to refute the version of one of the Russian authors. He wrote that in that book - there is evidence of his version.
Oh, how I read this book in German ... Fortunately, this language was taught at school. Nothing is impossible.
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We are all fair. I am forced to read everything from a foreign language that is given to me as arguments. I'm in the Dresden library!!! - found and downloaded a book on the history of the Communist Party of Germany. Read and look at illustrations. I needed this to refute the version of one of the Russian authors. He wrote that in that book - there is evidence of his version.
Oh, how I read this book in German ... Fortunately, this language was taught at school. Nothing is impossible.
Почемучка продолжает уводить в сторону от темы. Ее задача - увести в тупик, изгадить тему.
Почемучка continues to lead away from the topic. Her task is to lead to a dead end, to spoil the topic.
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Мне пришлось до Вас - писать статью. Именно под Ваш вопрос. Там еще немного собрано - мы только начали мутить эту воду на свой вкус и цвет.
There is still a little collected - we have just begun to muddy this water to our taste and color.
Почемучка, может хватит "мутить воду на свой вкус и цвет"??
Почемучка, don't you stop "muddying the water to your taste and color"??
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Thanks for the invitation, but I can't read russian (as of yet), so it'd be too difficult for me.
У меня здесь всего 2,5 минуты - я даже не успеваю исправить орфографические ошибки.
Тем не менее - даже при отсутствии у Вас навыком общения с русским языком - Вы можете в свободную минуту: почитать то что я привожу в качестве примера.
Пример - гибель летчика, который тоже участвовал в поисках группы Дятлова.
У нас все по-честному. Я вынуждена читать все из иностранного что мне приводят как аргументы. Я в библиотеке Дрездена !!! - находила и скачивала книгу по истории коммунистической партии Германии. Читала и рассматривала иллюстрации. Это мне нужно было чтоб опровергнуть версию одного из русских авторов. Он писал что в той книге - есть доказательства его версии.
Эх, как я почитала эту книгу на немецком... Благо в школе учили этот язык. Нет ничего - невозможного.
I have only 2.5 minutes here - I don't even have time to correct spelling errors.
Nevertheless - even if you do not have the ability to communicate with the Russian language - you can in your spare time: read what I give as an example.
An example is the death of a pilot who also participated in the search for the Dyatlov group.
We are all fair. I am forced to read everything from a foreign language that is given to me as arguments. I'm in the Dresden library!!! - found and downloaded a book on the history of the Communist Party of Germany. Read and look at illustrations. I needed this to refute the version of one of the Russian authors. He wrote that in that book - there is evidence of his version.
Oh, how I read this book in German ... Fortunately, this language was taught at school. Nothing is impossible.
I'd be completely willing to try to read in French, which I learned at school. Even Swedish, which I started learning on my own some years ago. But in Russian I only read the letters by now and don't know any words. It will take me quite some time, to be able to really understand something. And I plainly refuse to skip the Swedish for learning Russian just now.
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I'd be completely willing to try to read in French, which I learned at school. Even Swedish, which I started learning on my own some years ago. But in Russian I only read the letters by now and don't know any words. It will take me quite some time, to be able to really understand something. And I plainly refuse to skip the Swedish for learning Russian just now.
Я могу приколоться и в пику здешнему анголоязычному предпочтению/давлению - перевести там на немецкий язык.
Я там могу - редактировать свой пост хоть до моркорвкиного заговенья.
А давайте - пошпрехаем. Sprechen Sie deutsch...Ведь я осилила книгу на 700 страниц о компартии Германии.
I can joke and in defiance of the local English-speaking preference / pressure - translate there into German.
I can edit my post there, even to Morkorvkin's spell.
And let's go ahead. Sprechen Sie deutsch...After all, I mastered a book of 700 pages about the Communist Party of Germany.
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And I plainly refuse to skip the Swedish for learning Russian just now.
Смотрите - какую книгу я читала. Шрифт - просто сказка. Вы возможно - о существовании такой и не знаете.
Словарь мне нужен был - только раз семь.
See what book I read. The font is just fabulous. You may not even be aware of the existence of such a thing.
I needed a dictionary - only seven times.
(https://i.ibb.co/7pXv9MZ/image.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/LhFgVC3/2.png)
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I'm impressed! thumb1
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I'm impressed! thumb1
А то ж. Это - я еще за Гёте в подлиннике не бралась...
And then. This is - I have not taken Goethe in the original yet ...
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Goethe is even for us Germans not easy to understand. It's old language and much room for interpretation.
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Goethe is even for us Germans not easy to understand. It's old language and much room for interpretation.
Да, получается - он очень теперь русский автор. Можно перечитать немецкий со смыслом сто тысяч оттенков. Супер. Повезло Германии.
Такие древние мосты - на Россию.
Yes, it turns out - he is now a very Russian author. You can reread German with the meaning of a hundred thousand shades. Super. Lucky Germany.
Such ancient bridges - to Russia.
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You both have strayed far from the topic. This is about a fall from a tree. Can you explain or defend the idea of someone climbing a tree in winter? Is there a single defensible reason? Do you believe any of the injuries the hikers had were tree related?
In another vein, Teddies hypothesis addresses a lot of the mystery including means, motive and opportunity. The major disconnect is where the tent actually was found. There would be no need to relocate it, and there would certainly be no reason to climb an adjacent tree after one had just crushed your tent.The former only raises unnecessary questions, the latter would be simply childish behavior.
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You both have strayed far from the topic. This is about a fall from a tree. Can you explain or defend the idea of someone climbing a tree in winter? Is there a single defensible reason? Do you believe any of the injuries the hikers had were tree related?
According to my version, tourists climbed a tree to escape from the dogs of the liquidators. On the posthumous photos of tourists, on their faces and hands - there are traces of jaws and claws of dogs.
I'm familiar with Teddy's version, but not from the book. I have a lot of questions for Theodora:
1. If a tree fell from a geological explosion, then there must be many fallen trees, not one. The search engines did not notice completely fallen trees in the area. And there was no crater from the explosion. Why did the geologists not immediately call a helicopter with medics on the radio?
2. If there was only one fallen tree, then why would geologists take the blame for this one fallen tree?
3. Why drag the tent? They would have photographed the tree that fell on the tent, handed it over to the investigators. The party organs would not have dealt with this matter.... And even the funeral would be at the expense of the parents, but not on party money. (maybe geologists would help a little)........
I respect Theodora, her wonderful forum. I consider her version to be original, but unsubstantiated.
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Thank you Anna for a thoughtful reply. I believe that if geologists were doing government business,they should have nothing to fear. Accidents happen. Trees do fall, but who will choose to place their camp by an unhealthy tree? I would expect tree debris on the tent and human blood too. I do not think the three hikers found going toward the tent on 1079 would have a reason to do so if there was no tent there until they died. Yes, a state funded funeral for a personal tragedy seems add, unless that was a government guarantee for communists.
If a tree fell on the tourists, I can think of no acceptable reason why any,one would climb up a tree thereafter. I would think survivors would gather food and bandages, go to the labaz and then home. The would go anywhere, but not back to an empty spot on a bare mountain side.
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You both have strayed far from the topic. This is about a fall from a tree. Can you explain or defend the idea of someone climbing a tree in winter? Is there a single defensible reason? Do you believe any of the injuries the hikers had were tree related?
In another vein, Teddies hypothesis addresses a lot of the mystery including means, motive and opportunity. The major disconnect is where the tent actually was found. There would be no need to relocate it, and there would certainly be no reason to climb an adjacent tree after one had just crushed your tent.The former only raises unnecessary questions, the latter would be simply childish behavior.
Мне давать пояснения - в шестой раз? Они есть в этой теме. Кое-кто даже их наконец-то увидел, правда с пятого разу. Missi - был этим внимательным читателем. Поэтому пока все нас догоняют - мы беседуем о Гёте.
Should I give an explanation - for the sixth time? They are in this thread. Some even finally saw them, though from the fifth time. Missi - was this attentive reader. Therefore, while everyone is catching up with us, we are talking about Goethe.
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You both have strayed far from the topic.
А - поцеловать почитать?
A - kiss read?
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1322.90
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1322.msg21171#msg21171
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1322.msg21175#msg21175
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You both have strayed far from the topic. This is about a fall from a tree. Can you explain or defend the idea of someone climbing a tree in winter? Is there a single defensible reason? Do you believe any of the injuries the hikers had were tree related?
In another vein, Teddies hypothesis addresses a lot of the mystery including means, motive and opportunity. The major disconnect is where the tent actually was found. There would be no need to relocate it, and there would certainly be no reason to climb an adjacent tree after one had just crushed your tent.The former only raises unnecessary questions, the latter would be simply childish behavior.
Yes, you're right, I'm sorry.
I don't think they did climb the tree. As far as I remember, there is no evidence that proves they did. Traces of wood and needles and some injuries can as well be attributed to a tree falling on them. I'm with Teddy on this one.
There would be a reason in relocating the tent, if you wanted to keep the place of the accident secret in order to not arise questions. And no, no tree climbing.
You both have strayed far from the topic. This is about a fall from a tree. Can you explain or defend the idea of someone climbing a tree in winter? Is there a single defensible reason? Do you believe any of the injuries the hikers had were tree related?
According to my version, tourists climbed a tree to escape from the dogs of the liquidators. On the posthumous photos of tourists, on their faces and hands - there are traces of jaws and claws of dogs.
I'm familiar with Teddy's version, but not from the book. I have a lot of questions for Theodora:
1. If a tree fell from a geological explosion, then there must be many fallen trees, not one. The search engines did not notice completely fallen trees in the area. And there was no crater from the explosion. Why did the geologists not immediately call a helicopter with medics on the radio?
2. If there was only one fallen tree, then why would geologists take the blame for this one fallen tree?
3. Why drag the tent? They would have photographed the tree that fell on the tent, handed it over to the investigators. The party organs would not have dealt with this matter.... And even the funeral would be at the expense of the parents, but not on party money. (maybe geologists would help a little)........
I respect Theodora, her wonderful forum. I consider her version to be original, but unsubstantiated.
1. As much as I understood it, it was not an explosion causing the tree to fall, but the effect of wind. We know, that there are high winds in the area. The corpses were not found immediately, but only some time later.
2. You often talk about the atmosphere at the time, the influence of Stalin still kinda present. There are cases of people being send to gulags for reasons much smaller (or thought up). Teddy especially mentions an example of a hero of war who was stripped of his medals and titles and send to prison, because some of "his" workers died in a fire accidentally. I'd not be surprised if there were people fearing for their lives when while working in the area, some tourists were killed by a tree.
3. The fear of being made the culprits for the death. I find that plausible.
Thank you Anna for a thoughtful reply. I believe that if geologists were doing government business,they should have nothing to fear. Accidents happen. Trees do fall, but who will choose to place their camp by an unhealthy tree? I would expect tree debris on the tent and human blood too. I do not think the three hikers found going toward the tent on 1079 would have a reason to do so if there was no tent there until they died. Yes, a state funded funeral for a personal tragedy seems add, unless that was a government guarantee for communists.
If a tree fell on the tourists, I can think of no acceptable reason why any,one would climb up a tree thereafter. I would think survivors would gather food and bandages, go to the labaz and then home. The would go anywhere, but not back to an empty spot on a bare mountain side.
The tree was not unhealthy. The geologists chopped trees. And the injuries were mostly internally. Scratches might not have bled at all or small traces were left in blankets. Did anyone check the blankets for blood?
The diaries mention the hikers saw the planes in the area, used by the geologists' expedition. Those, who wanted to go on the mountain tried to do so, to catch the attention of the pilots to get help. They didn't make it, unfortunately.
Isn't there a report from some pilot who saw shapes like bodies on the slope around Feb 2nd? Maybe I'm remembering wrong...
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Объясните мне хоть кто-нибудь - почему нельзя упасть с дерева
1) если лезешь на него с целью обломать ветки, которые нависают над костром
2) с этих нависших веток тающий снег - заливает костер
3) этот костер с таким трудом создан и он важен
Ау, люди, где вы?
Explain to me at least someone - why you can not fall from a tree
1) if you climb on it in order to break off the branches that hang over the fire
2) melting snow from these overhanging branches - floods the fire
3) this fire was created with such difficulty and it is important
Hey people, where are you?
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What type of injuries do you suppose can result from a fall like this…. hitting multiple branches on the way down and god knows what on the ground?
Are we certain this didn’t happen? If so, is it possible an injured person was moved to the ravine?
I could have made this video an hour long but I’ll spare you the cringe…. lol.
https://youtu.be/uOzBKvYTSu8
I think we men sometimes need to be fitted with airbags between our legs.
I'm not sure the DPI fractures are explained by falling from the cedar, but instead of Zina being whacked with a stick by an attacker, as some would have it, I can easily imagine her falling and hitting her side on a lower branch, which saves her from more serious injury hitting the ground but delivers a 'baton' bruise. And Igor, rather than being hung upside down by his ankles, or bound by them while his wrists were curiously left free, might cross his legs for grip around a tree trunk or when crawling along branches and that created his pressure marks.
To have cold people with inadequate footwear and no gloves, losing the feeling in their digits, at night, climbing trees with the tops of branches covered in snow or ice - it'd be pretty remarkable if nobody slipped at all.
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Just so all understand that this whole tree climbing line of inquiry is imaginative. It is investigative dead wood.
What we are told is that this cedar was both known and used previously by Mansi hunters. They would have a far better reason and gear to use the tree for animal spotting and procuring branches for an outdoor fire making than the DP9.
There is little, if any practical reason for half frozen kids to attempt to climb up slick branches to get some favorable point of view. I mean, they already know the way back!
I know! But what do hunters ( assasins) do when the turkey sticks its head out?