One metric to determine the presence of outside combatants is the difference between punches thrown, and blows received. The hikers seemed to have much more fist and knuckle injury than facial strike marks. They fought well, but lost. There must have been outside persons, or they thrashed the cedar tree!
Hello. I'm brand new. A few years ago, I saw some little blurb about these mysterious deaths, but, didn't give it much thought. Then, saw something about it, and looked it up, which lead me to purchasing the book, "Dead Mountain" by Donnie Eichar, and doing lots and lots of looking up as much as I can that my computer will let me. This brings me to the point. While looking at all the information, there is another author, Keith ****, I think, who wrote a book and has a website. This is pretty interesting and fit the mystery of the death, and WHY, for the love of Pete, the hikers left their tents, why some of the hikers had skull fractures and weird things wrong with them that would suggest beatings. On the website, he has all the reasons why the hikers died, sort of like what is on here. A psychic medium, bought his book, looked at the pictures of some of the hikers, and then did a thing where she contacted them. Lyuda was the main speaker. She said they were attacked by some men who had spears that were jabbing and stabbing their tent---hence, the strange holes. She said they were sticking their spears through the tent at them because they were angry that they were there. Someone, who was in the front of the tent was grabbed and thrashed over, and they forced all of them out of the tent and forced them to walk down the hill. I guess some of the men tried to fight them, and that's why they have the wounds they have. Rustem said they killed him. Zina said she was frozen. Lyuda said they killed her. I can't remember what the other ones said, but, she didn't talk to Kolevatov and Zolotaryov, only because the pictures of them were blurry, which I didn't understand. The men, who were sort of a tribe that lived on the mountain and they kept telling the hikers, they didn't belong there, and that's why they killed them. Makes sense to me and explains a lot of things. I'm sure there will be others who don't agree, but, to me, this answers a LOT of the questions of why in the heck, they all ran out not fully dressed for the weather.
Hello. I'm brand new. A few years ago, I saw some little blurb about these mysterious deaths, but, didn't give it much thought. Then, saw something about it, and looked it up, which lead me to purchasing the book, "Dead Mountain" by Donnie Eichar, and doing lots and lots of looking up as much as I can that my computer will let me. This brings me to the point. While looking at all the information, there is another author, Keith ****, I think, who wrote a book and has a website. This is pretty interesting and fit the mystery of the death, and WHY, for the love of Pete, the hikers left their tents, why some of the hikers had skull fractures and weird things wrong with them that would suggest beatings. On the website, he has all the reasons why the hikers died, sort of like what is on here. A psychic medium, bought his book, looked at the pictures of some of the hikers, and then did a thing where she contacted them. Lyuda was the main speaker. She said they were attacked by some men who had spears that were jabbing and stabbing their tent---hence, the strange holes. She said they were sticking their spears through the tent at them because they were angry that they were there. Someone, who was in the front of the tent was grabbed and thrashed over, and they forced all of them out of the tent and forced them to walk down the hill. I guess some of the men tried to fight them, and that's why they have the wounds they have. Rustem said they killed him. Zina said she was frozen. Lyuda said they killed her. I can't remember what the other ones said, but, she didn't talk to Kolevatov and Zolotaryov, only because the pictures of them were blurry, which I didn't understand. The men, who were sort of a tribe that lived on the mountain and they kept telling the hikers, they didn't belong there, and that's why they killed them. Makes sense to me and explains a lot of things. I'm sure there will be others who don't agree, but, to me, this answers a LOT of the questions of why in the heck, they all ran out not fully dressed for the weather.
This is above all the $9,000 question.... I agree
I do however believe there is a very real possiblity of the 9 becoming unfortunate victims of several events or (chain of events) in which lead to their deaths.
#1. Most of the intrigue of this mystery is due to the lack of evidence for all theories which leads one to rely on circumstantial evidence as the basis for the theory they subscribe to the most.
#2. Its a 50/50 chance said 'compelling' force came from outside of the tent, or within. I would lean more towards the latter given that the easiest explanation is usually correct. People tend to focus on more on what compelling force would make them go down the slope rather then what made them leave the tent when approaching this. For me, its a matter of what inside the tent would they want to flee from, not what is outside they would want to flee towards and subsequently be unprepared as described. What may have been the reason within the tent for said departure I dont know... But it shouldn't be overlooked yet alone ruled out.
#3. The injuries. I also believe most people tend to see the injuries as 'having' to be caused by someone from outside if the group. In reality, most victims know their attacker in one way shape or form. I do believe either case can be made, but I do not like to discount one over the other due to lack of evidence. We know most sustained injuries consistent with hand/hand combat, but honestly we have no idea who inflicted said injuries..... Could have well been amongst themselves. Another scenario that shouldn't be overlooked.
I used to be super into the whole self-destruction theory until recently, funny enough. But one thing that just doesn't stick right with me is that it's not that easy to collapse someone's chest with your fists alone. Is it doable? Sure, but probably not likely. I'd actually be more willing to believe that if they were attacked, their attackers had some kind of weapon that could concentrate more pressure onto a single point, like a rifle butt or something.
I used to be super into the whole self-destruction theory until recently, funny enough. But one thing that just doesn't stick right with me is that it's not that easy to collapse someone's chest with your fists alone. Is it doable? Sure, but probably not likely. I'd actually be more willing to believe that if they were attacked, their attackers had some kind of weapon that could concentrate more pressure onto a single point, like a rifle butt or something.
can't be the result of falling upon rocks
"People that had the resources and intelligence to orchestrate a murder to look like an accident..." is rather the problem here:
It doesn't look like any accident. It didn't in 1959, and it still doesn't going into 2019. Not to mention the "why?" It would have been more resourceful to clean up the entire area and dump the bodies in an incinerator of a nearby facility equipped to burn the dead that way there's zero evidence to have been found as the odds of anybody rolling up on that mountain after the fact were slim to none. A quick and brief cleaning then leaving nature to wind-sweep the rest would have been sufficient enough to orchestrate a great mystery case of disappeared individuals. And hell! There'd still have been all the makings for typical aliens theorists had this been a missing persons case instead--prime example of abduction--if they wanted a cold case to follow history. Higher ups could propose that these young students fled to Norway to live abroad (as had been suggested to Yuri Yudin at one point I believe very early on) and that's why there's zero trace of their belongings. Some people could leave tracks suggesting as much. I mean... all of that would have been a heck of a lot more resourceful and much cleaner than the mess that we continue to investigate to this day.
Why would killers allow their victims to have cameras?
The Dyatlov group by all accounts walked or run away from the tent without taking any equipment with them ! ? And they did this for a mile. Surely an avalanche of any force as is inferred in the article would create a different outcome for the Dyatlov group ! ?
The Dyatlov group by all accounts walked or run away from the tent without taking any equipment with them ! ? And they did this for a mile. Surely an avalanche of any force as is inferred in the article would create a different outcome for the Dyatlov group ! ?
the article at other chapters shared the following:
real life eg for avalanche at seemingly non-conducive locations -
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com.sg&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.alpklubspb.ru/ass/dyatlov_13.htm&xid=17259,15700019,15700124,15700149,15700186,15700191,15700201&usg=ALkJrhgN-AB6Qub_wsy_zK-zcwePyz_mHw
explanation for injuries sustained (at tent site) but yet not incompletely immobile
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com.sg&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.alpklubspb.ru/ass/dyatlov_08.htm&xid=17259,15700019,15700124,15700149,15700186,15700191,15700201&usg=ALkJrhjjh4E69IaygBdZ1Ug3pxjgYUCeiw
It didn't really cover why the 4 most injured were best dressed though.
Why did they leave their tent?
That is a crucial question.
The tragedy started with their leaving their camp.
Everything that subsequently happened is connected to their fleeing their tent, and it is probable to the point of certainty that the unusual force that made them leave their shelter was also responsible for their deaths.
Leaving a safe shelter and fleeing out in the arctic winter in the middle of the night without proper clothing and moreover without proper protection of their feet and hands leads to certain death within a short time, and they must all have known that.
Being aware that staying outside half-dressed and with little or no protection for the most vulnerable parts of the body means death, the only possibility is that they found themselves faced with a situation that was so extraordinarily dangerous that staying where they were would result in immediate and violent inescapable death since the danger must have been so great and forceful that nine healthy people could not hope to fight it even if they had axes and knives. They somehow managed to grab with them some few items like matches, but they evidently did not have the time to put on their warm garments.
The immediacy and gravity of the threat they faced on that fateful night is the only possible reason why they left without taking the three to four minutes it would require to put on their winter clothes, boots and mittens/gloves.
What could it be? Let us consider some possibilities.
- An avalanche. That can be ruled out. The terrain was simply not typical of an area where avalanches occur. No avalanches were reported, and no traces of avalanches were found in the area.
- Atmospheric phenomena in the sky. We can also safely rule them out. These nine trekkers were gifted and knowledgeable people who must have been acquainted with both northern lights and other phenomena, and moreover they would not let themselves be scared out from the tent in a deadly vulnerable condition unless an immensely dangerous physical presence forced them to leave.
- Infrasound with subconscious psychological effects that led to their fleeing their tent. It is likely that we can become nervous and even scared by sound frequencies that are capable of subconsciously influencing us. But it is unrealistic to assume that nine intelligent, experienced and evidently mentally as well as physically strong people would let panic overtake them to such a degree that they would all flee. They all knew very well that to leave their shelter in -25 C in the middle of the dark night improperly dressed and without winter mittens, gloves and winter boots is a suicidal action which will invariably lead to death.
- Yetis do not exist, and even if they did they would most likely not be harmful to humans.
- UFOs do exist, but they are natural phenomena, not extraterrestrials that harm and kill people.
- Known animals can also be excluded. Predatory animals would have left characteristic damage on the bodies, and nothing points to an animal attack on any of the nine trekkers while they were alive.
Realistically, judging from the evidence which is known - including the fact that much of the bodily damage found on nearly all of the unfortunate victims was fully compatible with and even characteristic of forceful physical attack - there is only one natural phenomenon that can have caused the trekkers to leave the tent and thereafter caused their deaths. That phenomenon is an assault by human attackers, a powerful, compelling and relentless assault that were intended to kill all the nine members of the Dyatlov group and also achieved that violent and terrible goal.
That is, the tent and its nine occupants must have been attacked by human assailants during the fateful night of February 02, 1959.
Why did they leave their tent?
That is a crucial question.
The tragedy started with their leaving their camp.
Everything that subsequently happened is connected to their fleeing their tent, and it is probable to the point of certainty that the unusual force that made them leave their shelter was also responsible for their deaths.
Leaving a safe shelter and fleeing out in the arctic winter in the middle of the night without proper clothing and moreover without proper protection of their feet and hands leads to certain death within a short time, and they must all have known that.
Being aware that staying outside half-dressed and with little or no protection for the most vulnerable parts of the body means death, the only possibility is that they found themselves faced with a situation that was so extraordinarily dangerous that staying where they were would result in immediate and violent inescapable death since the danger must have been so great and forceful that nine healthy people could not hope to fight it even if they had axes and knives. They somehow managed to grab with them some few items like matches, but they evidently did not have the time to put on their warm garments.
The immediacy and gravity of the threat they faced on that fateful night is the only possible reason why they left without taking the three to four minutes it would require to put on their winter clothes, boots and mittens/gloves.
What could it be? Let us consider some possibilities.
- An avalanche. That can be ruled out. The terrain was simply not typical of an area where avalanches occur. No avalanches were reported, and no traces of avalanches were found in the area.
- Atmospheric phenomena in the sky. We can also safely rule them out. These nine trekkers were gifted and knowledgeable people who must have been acquainted with both northern lights and other phenomena, and moreover they would not let themselves be scared out from the tent in a deadly vulnerable condition unless an immensely dangerous physical presence forced them to leave.
- Infrasound with subconscious psychological effects that led to their fleeing their tent. It is likely that we can become nervous and even scared by sound frequencies that are capable of subconsciously influencing us. But it is unrealistic to assume that nine intelligent, experienced and evidently mentally as well as physically strong people would let panic overtake them to such a degree that they would all flee. They all knew very well that to leave their shelter in -25 C in the middle of the dark night improperly dressed and without winter mittens, gloves and winter boots is a suicidal action which will invariably lead to death.
- Yetis do not exist, and even if they did they would most likely not be harmful to humans.
- UFOs do exist, but they are natural phenomena, not extraterrestrials that harm and kill people.
- Known animals can also be excluded. Predatory animals would have left characteristic damage on the bodies, and nothing points to an animal attack on any of the nine trekkers while they were alive.
Realistically, judging from the evidence which is known - including the fact that much of the bodily damage found on nearly all of the unfortunate victims was fully compatible with and even characteristic of forceful physical attack - there is only one natural phenomenon that can have caused the trekkers to leave the tent and thereafter caused their deaths. That phenomenon is an assault by human attackers, a powerful, compelling and relentless assault that were intended to kill all the nine members of the Dyatlov group and also achieved that violent and terrible goal.
That is, the tent and its nine occupants must have been attacked by human assailants during the fateful night of February 02, 1959.
How does one make a claim that YETIS dont exist ! ? How do we know ! ? They could exist.
How does one make a claim that UFO's exist but are not extraterrestial ! ? How do we know ! ?
I thought that the original investigators had ruled out foul play by other humans ! ?
In the state of semi sleep and bewilderment, inside the tent, things were about to become very chaotic very quickly, but not before Zolotaryov and Thibeaux-Brignolles had a chance to tell the group, that they had seen UFOs when they had been outside. There would have been no time for questions, speculation and/ or disbelief from the other group members as a 'Bigfoot' screamed again, perhaps towards the end of the tent where the entrance / exit was located as the light outside suddenly increased.That is more than reasonable to explain the injuries, openly. Many theories are possible.
Terrfied and caught unawares, several group members would have grabbed for their knives, in order to make eye sized slits in the tent, to see that was going on, without actually going outside. In typical 'Bigfoot' encounters, where the manifesting entity, has approached campers, they always stay inside the tent, treating the 'Bigfoot' as a wild animal and hoping that it will go away. They do not expose themselves to the unknown entity, by leaving the tent, in order to investigate. They are usually too afraid to do anything. The Dyatlov group was no different, but they were intrepid and curious [rather than frozen in fear], so they used their knives, to make small eye level slits, in the side of the tent, in order to see what was going on. Whatever was going on outside, was shocking enough, to have group members take the drastic action, of cutting slits, into their only means of protection, against the deadly cold.
Okay, so what if they were suddenly lit up by a powerful light, like you often hear about in 'UFO' abduction cases, that they could see through their tent walls? What if they saw silhouettes of beings, that they knew were not of this earth? They may see their tent surrounded by ETs, strange people, or there may even be manifesting demonic entities, in physical celestial bodies. We can only look at patterns, but we will never know what they were seeing, under the effect of the fallen angels, who are manifesting as balls of light, spheres, fireballs, fake UFOs. Something is outside the tent. There are lights, sound, the tent may begin to shake. Whatever it is, it must be astonishing to have these people, make slits in the side of the tent, in order to look out. What are they seeing and hearing? It could be anything, since fallen angels can readily create false visions, hallucinations, altered states of consciousness and OBEs.
I believe that the fallen angels, in orb form, would have made conditions inside the tent extremely uncomfortable, perhaps life threatening, as they began to cook the group, with a blast of electro magnetic microwave radiation, so that in order to escape the searing heat and pain, the individuals still holding knives, that they had used made the slits with, simply slashed the tent so that they all poured outside into the snow, in order to avoid the agony, of being cooked alive, inside the structure.
which left no physical evidence at the scene.
Your looking at a darker area Nigel. Darker areas are created by shadows. Shadows are a result of a relatively low easterly horizon sun (morning), and chunks of snow protruding upward from the surface around it.
blue rectangle indicates the tent installation; the pink oval shows the boundaries of the icy stain near the entrance of the tent; the green line shows the route of the escape from the tent unto the cedar;
This is nothing more then wild speciation in which you cherrypick to drive a narrative.
Hello.Hi Monika, yes St Elmo's fire could explain why they left the tent and appear to have stood in a row a little distance away before walking down the hill. But the "electro magnetic phenomena narrative" would seem to have to be expanded to include nitrogen oxides and Ivanov's fire orbs = rollers imo.
I like to join your group.
It seems to me as their tent was in death danger. And out of the tent there was no danger (at least they thought). I am inclined to the idea of a some little-known physical phenomenon (e.g. a plasmoid lighting) that, due to metallic ski rods in the corners of the tent, could create a high voltage on the tent (the tent was under the electric current). That would explain why they could not stay in the tent or even take their things out. It is possible that they waited a while before the tent, but the situation did not change, so they must went away from the tent and from open space. Because they thought there was no other danger outside the tent, they did not have to run and go by organized move to the forest.
Except one opposite which is Faraday cage. A cube made of conducting material excludes all electrical charge. The tent is not in Faraday cage exactly; but the more the similarity is, the more it excludes charge.But if the surrounding snow is a say a metre deep and hence insulating the ground from the sky except where a tent has been dug down into the snow with a metal stove and other metal objects laid on it's base together with wet clothing and with possibly increasing moisture condensing from breathing. Then you have an earth. Then if you have ionised atmospheric nitrogen oxides they could be attracted into the tent to follow the earth. Then depending on how people are sitting versus lying on the floor there would be an asymmetric exposure to said oxides which (imo) seems to be indicated in the funeral/morgue photos. This could result in the group realising something was wrong with the inside of the tent and electing to stay outside and even exiting very quickly. And something similar happened at Chivruay.
Why did the Dyatlov group leave their tent?
Close but no cigar. clap1QuoteWhy did the Dyatlov group leave their tent?
To complete their top-secret mission of photographing piloted fireballs......... DUH!!!!
bigjoke
Convince Gauss and Faraday not moi.I don't think they had a canvas tent with air gaps in mind, more a metal mesh? I think you'd have a problem convincing them.
Aluminium is a metal, no? Gauss and Faraday thought that it was. If electrics are just magick, though, your argument is persuasion indeed.What aluminum?
I struggle to see how a psychotic drug or even a gas could have affected them all the same way and caused them all to leave at the same time without adequate clothing.If it was an acrid gas (O3, NO2) you have a plausible reason for leaving the tent urgently. A dose of NO2 at 200ppm is eventually fatal if untreated. Shavarin stated that there was evidence that they stood in a line some distance away. The NO2 narrative would be that this was outside of the denser (acrid) section of the plume looking at the tent wondering what to do. If nitrous oxide (slightly sweet) was still present then it would have affected them equally (except possibly for Nicolai and Semyon who are presumed to be elsewhere. The condition of the snow is used by the NO2 narrative to suggest that they were warm and continued to be as they walked down (persistent footsteps) (these gases are heavier than air and would tend to flow downhill into the forest). At the forest the temp has cooled. NO2 has gone. (bp 21C) but N2O (bp -89C) is still present and continuing to come down the hill possibly intermittently. Hence evidence of silly behaviour, people highly experienced in fieldcraft waste lots of matches lighting a fire. Climbing a tree, falling out of a tree. The narcotic effect would be intermittent. Sometimes they would behave sensibly, sometimes foolishly.
How long do the effects of N2O last? My experience knowledge indicates that it doesn’t last that long. So if they were exposed to such a gas in the tent I can’t see the effects lasting long after they left? Also the concentration outside the tent couldn’t be that high given dilution factors in open air.I think the narrative would have to be that the nitrogen oxides were being continually produced for a considerable period - 1 or 2 hours. The gases we're interested in are heavier than air and so would tend to follow the slope down to the forest (the narrative requires the local wind direction to be from the west). So they're getting occasional or regular balloon fulls over that period. It could be intermittent. It only has to be sufficient to create "combat injuries", match waste, poor tree climbing and perhaps biting off the skin from the back of your hand. Granted he would have been in strong pain but completely biting off the skin from the back of your hand hints at a lack of rationality imo. Then he died with the skin in his mouth. Nitrous oxide can kill you in seconds if sufficiently concentrated. I like the idea that he got enough exposure to it to decide to climb the tree but several metres up got a much stronger dose that caused him to lose control and he fell.
How long do the effects of N2O last? My experience knowledge indicates that it doesn’t last that long. So if they were exposed to such a gas in the tent I can’t see the effects lasting long after they left? Also the concentration outside the tent couldn’t be that high given dilution factors in open air.I think the narrative would have to be that the nitrogen oxides were being continually produced for a considerable period - 1 or 2 hours. The gases we're interested in are heavier than air and so would tend to follow the slope down to the forest (the narrative requires the local wind direction to be from the west). So they're getting occasional or regular balloon fulls over that period. It could be intermittent. It only has to be sufficient to create "combat injuries", match waste, poor tree climbing and perhaps biting off the skin from the back of your hand. Granted he would have been in strong pain but completely biting off the skin from the back of your hand hints at a lack of rationality imo. Then he died with the skin in his mouth. Nitrous oxide can kill you in seconds if sufficiently concentrated. I like the idea that he got enough exposure to it to decide to climb the tree but several metres up got a much stronger dose that caused him to lose control and he fell.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to back this up,Yes there is, the dark orange skin has few explanations. One of them is NO2 converting to nitric acid and interacting with the keratin on the skin.
The GAS cannot have caused all the EVENTS.NO2 isn't an explanation for the ravine injuries, but it can explain everything else.
Even if it caused the EVENT of leaving the TENT then it still seems completely IMPLAUSIBLE that all the group would completely abandon their safe refuge and go downhill a mile without their personal belongings and clothing for SURVIVAL.Not if the tent is surrounded by acrid gas which is affecting their breathing. Enlarged aortas suggests cardio vascular distress. Yuri D's foam suggests pulmonary edema.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to back this up,Yes there is, the dark orange skin has few explanations. One of them is NO2 converting to nitric acid and interacting with the keratin on the skin.The GAS cannot have caused all the EVENTS.NO2 isn't an explanation for the ravine injuries, but it can explain everything else.Even if it caused the EVENT of leaving the TENT then it still seems completely IMPLAUSIBLE that all the group would completely abandon their safe refuge and go downhill a mile without their personal belongings and clothing for SURVIVAL.Not if the tent is surrounded by acrid gas which is affecting their breathing. Enlarged aortas suggests cardio vascular distress. Yuri D's foam suggests pulmonary edema.
I still think a high scoring candidate for why they left their tent is the military test of a low yield tactical nuclear device. These weapons were designed to minimise physical damage ( albeit it is still a very big explosion) equivalent of several kilotons. An air burst of such a device at even a couple of km from their camp site should have the desired effect. They would be hit with a heat flash that would not have burned them but could possibly cause blindness if stared at directly. The blast would knock them around in the tent like someone shaking a bag of wall nuts but would not been sufficient to kill them. The wind blast would buffet the tent and be enough to throw anyone standing up outside. The shock wave would likely be sufficient to cause permanent damage to ear drums and hearing. And they may have been exposed to a significant if not lethal dose of neutron radiation. At extreme high levels the radiation could have an immediate effect on them, including their nervous systems, causing confusion, disorientation etc.So what's the explanation for the ravine deaths?Why were some of the group apparently attempting to return to the tent?
If after the heat, flash, blast and wind blast they emerged from their tent, they would have seen a huge fireball in the sky. This may have been enough to cause them to panick and flee from the camp site.
It is at this time in history that the west were developing these weapons. Between 1958 and 1961. It is likely that the russians were also experimenting with these weapons.
Evidence to look for would include a large area of melted ice directly below the detonation point. The ice may have melted and then froze again forming an icy crust underneath any snow that fallen after the event.
Fallout from the device would remain highly radioactive for about 2 weeks after which it would be safer to reoccupy the area. Even so depending on fallout plume dispersion, there would still be evidence today if the right core samples were taken and analysed.
There is is circumstantial evidence that different groups of people, some 70km away witnessed orange orbs in the sky in the direction of the pass that night. Also Ivanovo later said that he noticed that some of the trees had scorch marks on the tops.
In terms of the victims if they had been exposed to high levels of radiation, the symptoms would include the rapid deterioration of the stomach lining, intestines as well as the immune system leading to rapid and serious infections of the blood. This could have killed within 2 days to a few weeks. The cold was even a bigger threat that night so this would have killed them before any radiation sickness.
The government would certainly not want any probing investigation that may lead to the development of their new technology, or that any tests caused the deaths of these kids. It would be a good reason to cover it up and shut it down, and ban access to the area to stop people being exposed to any radioactive fallout.
It's also interesting that although the radiation found on the cloths of some of the victims was only minor, that the helicopter pilots refused to take some of the bodies onto the helicopters and said that they wouldn't unless they were in zinc coffins. Is it possible they knew something the investigators didn't?
I still think a high scoring candidate for why they left their tent is the military test of a low yield tactical nuclear device. These weapons were designed to minimise physical damage ( albeit it is still a very big explosion) equivalent of several kilotons. An air burst of such a device at even a couple of km from their camp site should have the desired effect. They would be hit with a heat flash that would not have burned them but could possibly cause blindness if stared at directly. The blast would knock them around in the tent like someone shaking a bag of wall nuts but would not been sufficient to kill them. The wind blast would buffet the tent and be enough to throw anyone standing up outside. The shock wave would likely be sufficient to cause permanent damage to ear drums and hearing. And they may have been exposed to a significant if not lethal dose of neutron radiation. At extreme high levels the radiation could have an immediate effect on them, including their nervous systems, causing confusion, disorientation etc.So what's the explanation for the ravine deaths?Why were some of the group apparently attempting to return to the tent?
If after the heat, flash, blast and wind blast they emerged from their tent, they would have seen a huge fireball in the sky. This may have been enough to cause them to panick and flee from the camp site.
It is at this time in history that the west were developing these weapons. Between 1958 and 1961. It is likely that the russians were also experimenting with these weapons.
Evidence to look for would include a large area of melted ice directly below the detonation point. The ice may have melted and then froze again forming an icy crust underneath any snow that fallen after the event.
Fallout from the device would remain highly radioactive for about 2 weeks after which it would be safer to reoccupy the area. Even so depending on fallout plume dispersion, there would still be evidence today if the right core samples were taken and analysed.
There is is circumstantial evidence that different groups of people, some 70km away witnessed orange orbs in the sky in the direction of the pass that night. Also Ivanovo later said that he noticed that some of the trees had scorch marks on the tops.
In terms of the victims if they had been exposed to high levels of radiation, the symptoms would include the rapid deterioration of the stomach lining, intestines as well as the immune system leading to rapid and serious infections of the blood. This could have killed within 2 days to a few weeks. The cold was even a bigger threat that night so this would have killed them before any radiation sickness.
The government would certainly not want any probing investigation that may lead to the development of their new technology, or that any tests caused the deaths of these kids. It would be a good reason to cover it up and shut it down, and ban access to the area to stop people being exposed to any radioactive fallout.
It's also interesting that although the radiation found on the cloths of some of the victims was only minor, that the helicopter pilots refused to take some of the bodies onto the helicopters and said that they wouldn't unless they were in zinc coffins. Is it possible they knew something the investigators didn't?
What about DECOMPOSTION conditions, surely that could cause such skin discolouration ! ?
Possibly with Lyudmila, but with Yuri D and Zina it can be discounted. The skin changed colour after the morgue photos but only on the hands and face. So decomposition doesn't fit. Some idiot mortician painting their hands and faces with iodine perhaps. I can't think of anything else. Feel free to give it a try.
I dont subscribe to the idea that the GAS theory caused all the EVENTS except the Ravine Event.It's not for everyone...
Well that is an interesting theory regarding the TENT being surrounded by GAS but I dont subscribe to that theory. In the First World War there are many harrowing stories of GAS ATTACKS but its interesting that the victims still managed to stay fully clothed etc etc etc etc.WW1 gas attacks didn't intoxicate?
I still think a high scoring candidate for why they left their tent is the military test of a low yield tactical nuclear device. These weapons were designed to minimise physical damage ( albeit it is still a very big explosion) equivalent of several kilotons. An air burst of such a device at even a couple of km from their camp site should have the desired effect. They would be hit with a heat flash that would not have burned them but could possibly cause blindness if stared at directly. The blast would knock them around in the tent like someone shaking a bag of wall nuts but would not been sufficient to kill them. The wind blast would buffet the tent and be enough to throw anyone standing up outside. The shock wave would likely be sufficient to cause permanent damage to ear drums and hearing. And they may have been exposed to a significant if not lethal dose of neutron radiation. At extreme high levels the radiation could have an immediate effect on them, including their nervous systems, causing confusion, disorientation etc.
If after the heat, flash, blast and wind blast they emerged from their tent, they would have seen a huge fireball in the sky. This may have been enough to cause them to panick and flee from the camp site.
It is at this time in history that the west were developing these weapons. Between 1958 and 1961. It is likely that the russians were also experimenting with these weapons.
Evidence to look for would include a large area of melted ice directly below the detonation point. The ice may have melted and then froze again forming an icy crust underneath any snow that fallen after the event.
Fallout from the device would remain highly radioactive for about 2 weeks after which it would be safer to reoccupy the area. Even so depending on fallout plume dispersion, there would still be evidence today if the right core samples were taken and analysed.
There is is circumstantial evidence that different groups of people, some 70km away witnessed orange orbs in the sky in the direction of the pass that night. Also Ivanovo later said that he noticed that some of the trees had scorch marks on the tops.
In terms of the victims if they had been exposed to high levels of radiation, the symptoms would include the rapid deterioration of the stomach lining, intestines as well as the immune system leading to rapid and serious infections of the blood. This could have killed within 2 days to a few weeks. The cold was even a bigger threat that night so this would have killed them before any radiation sickness.
The government would certainly not want any probing investigation that may lead to the development of their new technology, or that any tests caused the deaths of these kids. It would be a good reason to cover it up and shut it down, and ban access to the area to stop people being exposed to any radioactive fallout.
It's also interesting that although the radiation found on the cloths of some of the victims was only minor, that the helicopter pilots refused to take some of the bodies onto the helicopters and said that they wouldn't unless they were in zinc coffins. Is it possible they knew something the investigators didn't?
I still think a high scoring candidate for why they left their tent is the military test of a low yield tactical nuclear device. These weapons were designed to minimise physical damage ( albeit it is still a very big explosion) equivalent of several kilotons. An air burst of such a device at even a couple of km from their camp site should have the desired effect. They would be hit with a heat flash that would not have burned them but could possibly cause blindness if stared at directly. The blast would knock them around in the tent like someone shaking a bag of wall nuts but would not been sufficient to kill them. The wind blast would buffet the tent and be enough to throw anyone standing up outside. The shock wave would likely be sufficient to cause permanent damage to ear drums and hearing. And they may have been exposed to a significant if not lethal dose of neutron radiation. At extreme high levels the radiation could have an immediate effect on them, including their nervous systems, causing confusion, disorientation etc.
If after the heat, flash, blast and wind blast they emerged from their tent, they would have seen a huge fireball in the sky. This may have been enough to cause them to panick and flee from the camp site.
It is at this time in history that the west were developing these weapons. Between 1958 and 1961. It is likely that the russians were also experimenting with these weapons.
Evidence to look for would include a large area of melted ice directly below the detonation point. The ice may have melted and then froze again forming an icy crust underneath any snow that fallen after the event.
Fallout from the device would remain highly radioactive for about 2 weeks after which it would be safer to reoccupy the area. Even so depending on fallout plume dispersion, there would still be evidence today if the right core samples were taken and analysed.
There is is circumstantial evidence that different groups of people, some 70km away witnessed orange orbs in the sky in the direction of the pass that night. Also Ivanovo later said that he noticed that some of the trees had scorch marks on the tops.
In terms of the victims if they had been exposed to high levels of radiation, the symptoms would include the rapid deterioration of the stomach lining, intestines as well as the immune system leading to rapid and serious infections of the blood. This could have killed within 2 days to a few weeks. The cold was even a bigger threat that night so this would have killed them before any radiation sickness.
The government would certainly not want any probing investigation that may lead to the development of their new technology, or that any tests caused the deaths of these kids. It would be a good reason to cover it up and shut it down, and ban access to the area to stop people being exposed to any radioactive fallout.
It's also interesting that although the radiation found on the cloths of some of the victims was only minor, that the helicopter pilots refused to take some of the bodies onto the helicopters and said that they wouldn't unless they were in zinc coffins. Is it possible they knew something the investigators didn't?
This theory has been tested in the FORUM by various members. Its an unlikely theory. It doesnt go any where near explaining many of the bodily injuries etc.
The WW1 GAS ATTACKS certainly affected the nervous systems of soldiers.Not by intoxication.
The WW1 GAS ATTACKS certainly affected the nervous systems of soldiers.Not by intoxication.
I still think a high scoring candidate for why they left their tent is the military test of a low yield tactical nuclear device. These weapons were designed to minimise physical damage ( albeit it is still a very big explosion) equivalent of several kilotons. An air burst of such a device at even a couple of km from their camp site should have the desired effect. They would be hit with a heat flash that would not have burned them but could possibly cause blindness if stared at directly. The blast would knock them around in the tent like someone shaking a bag of wall nuts but would not been sufficient to kill them. The wind blast would buffet the tent and be enough to throw anyone standing up outside. The shock wave would likely be sufficient to cause permanent damage to ear drums and hearing. And they may have been exposed to a significant if not lethal dose of neutron radiation. At extreme high levels the radiation could have an immediate effect on them, including their nervous systems, causing confusion, disorientation etc.
If after the heat, flash, blast and wind blast they emerged from their tent, they would have seen a huge fireball in the sky. This may have been enough to cause them to panick and flee from the camp site.
It is at this time in history that the west were developing these weapons. Between 1958 and 1961. It is likely that the russians were also experimenting with these weapons.
Evidence to look for would include a large area of melted ice directly below the detonation point. The ice may have melted and then froze again forming an icy crust underneath any snow that fallen after the event.
Fallout from the device would remain highly radioactive for about 2 weeks after which it would be safer to reoccupy the area. Even so depending on fallout plume dispersion, there would still be evidence today if the right core samples were taken and analysed.
There is is circumstantial evidence that different groups of people, some 70km away witnessed orange orbs in the sky in the direction of the pass that night. Also Ivanovo later said that he noticed that some of the trees had scorch marks on the tops.
In terms of the victims if they had been exposed to high levels of radiation, the symptoms would include the rapid deterioration of the stomach lining, intestines as well as the immune system leading to rapid and serious infections of the blood. This could have killed within 2 days to a few weeks. The cold was even a bigger threat that night so this would have killed them before any radiation sickness.
The government would certainly not want any probing investigation that may lead to the development of their new technology, or that any tests caused the deaths of these kids. It would be a good reason to cover it up and shut it down, and ban access to the area to stop people being exposed to any radioactive fallout.
It's also interesting that although the radiation found on the cloths of some of the victims was only minor, that the helicopter pilots refused to take some of the bodies onto the helicopters and said that they wouldn't unless they were in zinc coffins. Is it possible they knew something the investigators didn't?
This theory has been tested in the FORUM by various members. Its an unlikely theory. It doesnt go any where near explaining many of the bodily injuries etc.
What were the main problems with the falling into the ravine theory?
The RAVINE was not that deep. There would have been plenty of snow to cushion any bodily impacts. The injuries to at least 2 of the Group are highly unlikely to have been caused by any fall at the RAVINE.
I have discussed the likelihood of the injuries from a fall at the ravine with WAB on this forum From what I can gather he has been to ravine. He posted a photograph showing where the 4 were found. There a steep slop directly above them with rounded large rocks in the stream below. If they tumbled down this slope and hit the rocks I can imagine that it would inflict some nasty injuries. I would think the broken ribs is a possibility. Also if snow had been drifting up the side of the ravine it could have formed quite a significant vertical drop. It looks credible to me. WAB seems to think the chest injuries could have been sustained this way. Although would like to understand other view points.
The pathologist ruled out falling?
The pathologist ruled out falling?
And not just the pathologist. Others have ruled out a fall at the RAVINE because of the fact that no serious external injuries were found on DUBININA's chest, only the CRUSHED RIBS. A fall on rocks of such severity to crush ribs would also seriously damage the chest wall etc.
The pathologist ruled out falling?
And not just the pathologist. Others have ruled out a fall at the RAVINE because of the fact that no serious external injuries were found on DUBININA's chest, only the CRUSHED RIBS. A fall on rocks of such severity to crush ribs would also seriously damage the chest wall etc.
Is the pathologist conclusion written in the autopsy report of Dubinina, or somewhere in the case file info? I'll have to have another look.
According to the pathologist wrt interview with Ivanov, the injuries to Dubinina and Zoltorev, we're consistent with that of a blast wave from a bomb. Others report injuries similar to that of a car crash. Others suggest a high speed impact such as a fall.
So here are some questions I think are interesting given the suggested causes of the injuries:
1. If it was an explosion how far away would it have been and why isn't there any scorch marks or evidence of shrapnel?
2. If they fell how come there are no broken limbs as well as the trauma to the chest. Tibo had a crushed skull but again no broken limbs. Surely if it was a fall then the impact force would also have broken some other bones?
3 if it was violence how come there is no damage to the outer tissues of the chest? And why would the attackers leave Semyon with a camera ( potential incriminating evidence). And why did they leave kolevatov alive so that he could embrace his friend before he died?
According to the pathologist wrt interview with Ivanov, the injuries to Dubinina and Zoltorev, we're consistent with that of a blast wave from a bomb. Others report injuries similar to that of a car crash. Others suggest a high speed impact such as a fall.
So here are some questions I think are interesting given the suggested causes of the injuries:
1. If it was an explosion how far away would it have been and why isn't there any scorch marks or evidence of shrapnel?
2. If they fell how come there are no broken limbs as well as the trauma to the chest. Tibo had a crushed skull but again no broken limbs. Surely if it was a fall then the impact force would also have broken some other bones?
3 if it was violence how come there is no damage to the outer tissues of the chest? And why would the attackers leave Semyon with a camera ( potential incriminating evidence). And why did they leave kolevatov alive so that he could embrace his friend before he died?
I believe these questions have been addressed in the Dyatlov Pass Forum. Any way [1] No way of knowing how far away a blast could have been, and no metal fragments were ever found, etc. [2] Exactly, a fall that could have caused such injuries would also have broken through the thick skin wall. [3] Presumably you mean violence caused by other people, in which case, exactly, no breakage of the skin wall. And why indeed would attackers leave evidence behind.
According to the pathologist wrt interview with Ivanov, the injuries to Dubinina and Zoltorev, we're consistent with that of a blast wave from a bomb. Others report injuries similar to that of a car crash. Others suggest a high speed impact such as a fall.
So here are some questions I think are interesting given the suggested causes of the injuries:
1. If it was an explosion how far away would it have been and why isn't there any scorch marks or evidence of shrapnel?
2. If they fell how come there are no broken limbs as well as the trauma to the chest. Tibo had a crushed skull but again no broken limbs. Surely if it was a fall then the impact force would also have broken some other bones?
3 if it was violence how come there is no damage to the outer tissues of the chest? And why would the attackers leave Semyon with a camera ( potential incriminating evidence). And why did they leave kolevatov alive so that he could embrace his friend before he died?
I believe these questions have been addressed in the Dyatlov Pass Forum. Any way [1] No way of knowing how far away a blast could have been, and no metal fragments were ever found, etc. [2] Exactly, a fall that could have caused such injuries would also have broken through the thick skin wall. [3] Presumably you mean violence caused by other people, in which case, exactly, no breakage of the skin wall. And why indeed would attackers leave evidence behind.
I have done some basic **** packet calculations on the amount of force a body would experience falling 4 to 5 metres onto a flat hard surface. Assuming Lyuda for instance being a lady weighs approx 9 stone or roughly 60 Kg. and conservatively assuming that the chest is compressed by up to 15cm on impact then the force experience over those 15 cm of crushing is about 2 tonnes. That's a significant amount of force even for a 5 metre fall. Semyon, being heavier would have experienced even greater force, but he would have landed on his side. If Semyon had landed on his side would expect That his camera would have taken a significant impact too? Possibly enough to break it?
1. If it was an explosion how far away would it have been and why isn't there any scorch marks or evidence of shrapnel?
Any man made high explosive blast would produce a supersonic wave that would burst the lungs. If it was a blast it wasn't HE.
2. If they fell how come there are no broken limbs as well as the trauma to the chest. Tibo had a crushed skull but again no broken limbs. Surely if it was a fall then the impact force would also have broken some other bones?
As postulated on the NO2 thread, nitrous oxide could explain this.
1. If it was an explosion how far away would it have been and why isn't there any scorch marks or evidence of shrapnel?
Any man made high explosive blast would produce a supersonic wave that would burst the lungs. If it was a blast it wasn't HE.
2. If they fell how come there are no broken limbs as well as the trauma to the chest. Tibo had a crushed skull but again no broken limbs. Surely if it was a fall then the impact force would also have broken some other bones?
As postulated on the NO2 thread, nitrous oxide could explain this.
Ok so maybe the injuries weren't caused by a shock wave from HE despite what the pathologist said? It's unlikely they were caused by a car crash either. So what other possibilities are there?
1. Could they have fallen from the cedar tree? There is evidence that they climbed up to 5 metres? A fall even onto shallow snow would still produce significant forces to the chest in the range of about 2 tonnes.
2. Could something else have hit fhem in the chest? Large bolders that had been thrown by something?
3. Is there a type of explosion that could cause the chest injuries but not an explosion capable of bursting the lungs?
Ok so maybe the injuries weren't caused by a shock wave from HE despite what the pathologist said? It's unlikely they were caused by a car crash either. So what other possibilities are there?
Ball lightning exploding might fit the problem (because we don't know in detail what it is and how it might explode :)
1. Could they have fallen from the cedar tree? There is evidence that they climbed up to 5 metres? A fall even onto shallow snow would still produce significant forces to the chest in the range of about 2 tonnes.
After those injuries they aren't walking anywhere, certainly not to the ravine from the cedar. Those injuries happened very close to where they were found.
2. Could something else have hit fhem in the chest? Large bolders that had been thrown by something?
The lack of surface tissue damage makes it highly unlikely, i think the pathologist said something similar.
3. Is there a type of explosion that could cause the chest injuries but not an explosion capable of bursting the lungs?
Ball lightning?
Ok so maybe the injuries weren't caused by a shock wave from HE despite what the pathologist said? It's unlikely they were caused by a car crash either. So what other possibilities are there?
Ball lightning exploding might fit the problem (because we don't know in detail what it is and how it might explode :)
1. Could they have fallen from the cedar tree? There is evidence that they climbed up to 5 metres? A fall even onto shallow snow would still produce significant forces to the chest in the range of about 2 tonnes.
After those injuries they aren't walking anywhere, certainly not to the ravine from the cedar. Those injuries happened very close to where they were found.
2. Could something else have hit fhem in the chest? Large bolders that had been thrown by something?
The lack of surface tissue damage makes it highly unlikely, i think the pathologist said something similar.
3. Is there a type of explosion that could cause the chest injuries but not an explosion capable of bursting the lungs?
Ball lightning?
How certain is it that they would not be able to move with those chest injuries? They may have been carried or supported and they may have been unconscious? They may have been moved rather than walked themselves?Well only Zina and Igor would qualify as able bodied, Rustem was slowly dying from internal bleeding and had a fractured skull. Semyon and Lyudmila would be in strong pain (a flail chest makes every breath very painful). In my narrative the ravine would be warmer than the cedar because the warm air would roll across the tops of the trees and fall into the ravine. Hence providing motivation to move the group from the fire and build the den(s).
The ball lightning explosion is an unknown though so you can’t really conclude anything from it.True but it remains the most probable due to Ivanov's conviction.
I think that for a scenario that doesn’t involve murder or a yeti and is a result of some other natural event we should try to look for options that both result in the observed injuries and the compelling need to leave the camp without adequate clothing. They could be one and the same thing?Agreed, hence my theory that electro magnetic processes caused by high winds resulted in (1) hot acrid gases, (2) intoxicating gases. (3) production of fire orbs possibly exploding, possibly with mechanical force (impact), possibly not involved at all in fatalities.
There is good evidence for (1). warmed snow on hill, decision to descend in socks, general lack of frostbite, dark orange hands and faces at funeral forming after photos in the morgue combined with Lyudmila's yellow brown face with a white chin have very very few explanations, foam on cheek. Nicolai found with jacket unfastened and gloves in pockets.
There is circumstantial evidence within a plausible narrative for (2), decision to descend in socks, wasting matches, decision to climb tree, falling out of tree.
There is good evidence for (3) - A highly credible witness (of the evidence, Ivanov) said it must have been the fire orbs. He and the Central Committee (who clearly believed him) could only form this opinion from strongly credible evidence which must have been confiscated photographs. N.B. Yudin said that nearly everyone in the group had a camera? So there must have been at least nine rolls of exposed film possibly more? And Semyon's notebook, confiscated because it did describe the event?
How certain is it that they would not be able to move with those chest injuries? They may have been carried or supported and they may have been unconscious? They may have been moved rather than walked themselves?Well only Zina and Igor would qualify as able bodied, Rustem was slowly dying from internal bleeding and had a fractured skull. Semyon and Lyudmila would be in strong pain (a flail chest makes every breath very painful). In my narrative the ravine would be warmer than the cedar because the warm air would roll across the tops of the trees and fall into the ravine. Hence providing motivation to move the group from the fire and build the den(s).
The ball lightning explosion is an unknown though so you can’t really conclude anything from it.True but it remains the most probable due to Ivanov's conviction.
I think that for a scenario that doesn’t involve murder or a yeti and is a result of some other natural event we should try to look for options that both result in the observed injuries and the compelling need to leave the camp without adequate clothing. They could be one and the same thing?Agreed, hence my theory that electro magnetic processes caused by high winds resulted in (1) hot acrid gases, (2) intoxicating gases. (3) production of fire orbs possibly exploding, possibly with mechanical force (impact), possibly not involved at all in fatalities.
There is good evidence for (1). warmed snow on hill, decision to descend in socks, general lack of frostbite, dark orange hands and faces at funeral forming after photos in the morgue combined with Lyudmila's yellow brown face with a white chin have very very few explanations, foam on cheek. Nicolai found with jacket unfastened and gloves in pockets.
There is circumstantial evidence within a plausible narrative for (2), decision to descend in socks, wasting matches, decision to climb tree, falling out of tree.
There is good evidence for (3) - A highly credible witness (of the evidence, Ivanov) said it must have been the fire orbs. He and the Central Committee (who clearly believed him) could only form this opinion from strongly credible evidence which must have been confiscated photographs. N.B. Yudin said that nearly everyone in the group had a camera? So there must have been at least nine rolls of exposed film possibly more? And Semyon's notebook, confiscated because it did describe the event?
Initially Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may have had significant injuries. Kolevatov is said to have had a deformed neck, but it's not clear what that means? He may have been able to walk himself. Rustem although injured may also have been able to walk himself. That would leave Dyatlov, Zina, and the two yuris. Possibly kolevatov. If one person carries Thibo on his back, and another Lyuda and Semyon is supported and aided by two members of the group they could have moved slowly down the slope. Obviously there are possible variations on how they could have helped the injured down the slope.
It would have been difficult but if the circumstances are right and adrenaline is pumping they may have been able to make it down the slope together. if they were helping the injured it may also also explain why their decent seemed more orderly and slow. I am trying to explore all the possibilities.
I do think that the so called fire orbs may be responsible for what happened that night. Ivanov may have seen additional supporting evidence.
One thing to consider is the size of these so called fire orbs. The witness statements describe them as "moon size". Some of these people were up to 70km from kholat syakhl. This would mean the fire orbs would have been around about 500 metres in diameter. So what can create a ball of fire 500 metres in diameter?
Personally I am not stuck on any particular theory at the moment. I am slowly exploring the options and the possible variables (of which there seem to be many). My favourite currently is still the military accident. infrasound is a possibility. I think murder is still a possibility, but it doesn't lend itself to the facts of the case. For instance Semyon left with his camera, someone the group had knives with them to cut trees. If they were forced out of the tent and marched down the slope to their deaths I would expect their attackers to have searched them and not allowed them to take knives with them. Also, I would expect none of them to have boots, or that they had different levels of clothing. The distribution of the bodies doesn't match what I would expect for a murder. There a few key facts that kind of make murder less likely.
They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.
So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?
Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints. If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.
(https://i.ibb.co/pX0G6vG/Sasq-trackway-that-dissappears.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
They do have some interesting abilities which is why I brought it up. About the prints, they can choose to leave them or not. In this case it was a habituation. The Sasquatch was friendly and showing the researcher they can do this. In another encounter the Sasquatch left a trackway of right foot prints only. With the appropriate stride lengths without any left foot prints in the snow. I've seen a disappearing trackway in heavy mud from a dried up creek.They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.
So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?
Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints. If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.
(https://i.ibb.co/pX0G6vG/Sasq-trackway-that-dissappears.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Hi Tracker. Intersting photograph. So what happened to the rest of the tracks? I have read various reports about the abilities of these creatures (if they exist) including that their eyes glow red ( whats that all about?), and that they may even have their own form of language. Maybe this for discussion on a different thread though.
Initially Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may have had significant injuries. Kolevatov is said to have had a deformed neck, but it's not clear what that means? He may have been able to walk himself. Rustem although injured may also have been able to walk himself. That would leave Dyatlov, Zina, and the two yuris. Possibly kolevatov. If one person carries Thibo on his back, and another Lyuda and Semyon is supported and aided by two members of the group they could have moved slowly down the slope. Obviously there are possible variations on how they could have helped the injured down the slope.I prefer the narrative where the two Yuri's die first and clothes are removed later. There is evidence for this in that the bodies are rolled over sometime after death?
I do think that the so called fire orbs may be responsible for what happened that night. Ivanov may have seen additional supporting evidence.
My narrative is that Okishev supports the story that Ivanov showed his evidence to the Central Committee and they ordered a shutdown on the case. That can only be because they saw convincing evidence. It has to be photographs of fire orbs. There are missing cameras, missing film rolls....
One thing to consider is the size of these so called fire orbs. The witness statements describe them as "moon size". Some of these people were up to 70km from kholat syakhl. This would mean the fire orbs would have been around about 500 metres in diameter. Imo it's unlikely that the actual objects were that big, perhaps lighting up the surrounding snow/water vapour. "Light surrounded by a mist".
Personally I am not stuck on any particular theory at the moment. I am slowly exploring the options and the possible variables (of which there seem to be many). My favourite currently is still the military accident. infrasound is a possibility. I think murder is still a possibility, but it doesn't lend itself to the facts of the case. For instance Semyon left with his camera, someone the group had knives with them to cut trees. If they were forced out of the tent and marched down the slope to their deaths I would expect their attackers to have searched them and not allowed them to take knives with them. Also, I would expect none of them to have boots, or that they had different levels of clothing. The distribution of the bodies doesn't match what I would expect for a murder. There a few key facts that kind of make murder less likely.Rocket fuel would provide a good source of NO2, but there has to be some persistence to create a poisonous cloud that forces them to abandon the tent.
Initially Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may have had significant injuries. Kolevatov is said to have had a deformed neck, but it's not clear what that means? He may have been able to walk himself. Rustem although injured may also have been able to walk himself. That would leave Dyatlov, Zina, and the two yuris. Possibly kolevatov. If one person carries Thibo on his back, and another Lyuda and Semyon is supported and aided by two members of the group they could have moved slowly down the slope. Obviously there are possible variations on how they could have helped the injured down the slope.I prefer the narrative where the two Yuri's die first and clothes are removed later. There is evidence for this in that the bodies are rolled over sometime after death?
I do think that the so called fire orbs may be responsible for what happened that night. Ivanov may have seen additional supporting evidence.
My narrative is that Okishev supports the story that Ivanov showed his evidence to the Central Committee and they ordered a shutdown on the case. That can only be because they saw convincing evidence. It has to be photographs of fire orbs. There are missing cameras, missing film rolls....
One thing to consider is the size of these so called fire orbs. The witness statements describe them as "moon size". Some of these people were up to 70km from kholat syakhl. This would mean the fire orbs would have been around about 500 metres in diameter. Imo it's unlikely that the actual objects were that big, perhaps lighting up the surrounding snow/water vapour. "Light surrounded by a mist".
Personally I am not stuck on any particular theory at the moment. I am slowly exploring the options and the possible variables (of which there seem to be many). My favourite currently is still the military accident. infrasound is a possibility. I think murder is still a possibility, but it doesn't lend itself to the facts of the case. For instance Semyon left with his camera, someone the group had knives with them to cut trees. If they were forced out of the tent and marched down the slope to their deaths I would expect their attackers to have searched them and not allowed them to take knives with them. Also, I would expect none of them to have boots, or that they had different levels of clothing. The distribution of the bodies doesn't match what I would expect for a murder. There a few key facts that kind of make murder less likely.Rocket fuel would provide a good source of NO2, but there has to be some persistence to create a poisonous cloud that forces them to abandon the tent.
They do have some interesting abilities which is why I brought it up. About the prints, they can choose to leave them or not. In this case it was a habituation. The Sasquatch was friendly and showing the researcher they can do this. In another encounter the Sasquatch left a trackway of right foot prints only. With the appropriate stride lengths without any left foot prints in the snow. I've seen a disappearing trackway in heavy mud from a dried up creek.They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.
So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?
Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints. If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.
(https://i.ibb.co/pX0G6vG/Sasq-trackway-that-dissappears.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Hi Tracker. Intersting photograph. So what happened to the rest of the tracks? I have read various reports about the abilities of these creatures (if they exist) including that their eyes glow red ( whats that all about?), and that they may even have their own form of language. Maybe this for discussion on a different thread though.
To the point- The Yeti were probably right outside the Dyatlov 9's tent on the Mtn side that night. Then they hit the 9 with screams or infrasound and didn't leave a single print. Investigators wouldn't find any obvious evidence it was the Yeti. It's a real game changer for this 60 year old mystery Imo.
Their intelligent, direct confrontation usually last resort. They fear us and our weapons and there's nine humans in a tent. They most likely just wanted the group to leave their territory and when they didn't.They do have some interesting abilities which is why I brought it up. About the prints, they can choose to leave them or not. In this case it was a habituation. The Sasquatch was friendly and showing the researcher they can do this. In another encounter the Sasquatch left a trackway of right foot prints only. With the appropriate stride lengths without any left foot prints in the snow. I've seen a disappearing trackway in heavy mud from a dried up creek.They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.
So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?
Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints. If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.
(https://i.ibb.co/pX0G6vG/Sasq-trackway-that-dissappears.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Hi Tracker. Intersting photograph. So what happened to the rest of the tracks? I have read various reports about the abilities of these creatures (if they exist) including that their eyes glow red ( whats that all about?), and that they may even have their own form of language. Maybe this for discussion on a different thread though.
To the point- The Yeti were probably right outside the Dyatlov 9's tent on the Mtn side that night. Then they hit the 9 with screams or infrasound and didn't leave a single print. Investigators wouldn't find any obvious evidence it was the Yeti. It's a real game changer for this 60 year old mystery Imo.
If the Yeti were right outside the tent or near the tent why didn't they just attack the group and take them all out? They would have been much faster, stronger and easily capable of taking them all down. Why didn't any of the 9 grab the weapons in the tent? You probably wouldn't want to attack a yeti with small axe anyway, but it's better than nothing if it came to defending yourself.
Their intelligent, direct confrontation usually last resort. They fear us and our weapons and there's nine humans in a tent. They most likely just wanted the group to leave their territory and when they didn't.They do have some interesting abilities which is why I brought it up. About the prints, they can choose to leave them or not. In this case it was a habituation. The Sasquatch was friendly and showing the researcher they can do this. In another encounter the Sasquatch left a trackway of right foot prints only. With the appropriate stride lengths without any left foot prints in the snow. I've seen a disappearing trackway in heavy mud from a dried up creek.They were hit with infra-sound from the Yeti. They were probably nervous already from camping too close to them before. The group mentioned snowman exits prior and took frame 17 pic in light of the situation. They also made light of other events that were occurring in real time as well.
So where are the Yeti prints and trackways that connect them?
Notice the prints in picture below are set into the last tire indention left by the vehicle prior. The Sasquatch winter trackway in this case started and stopped without stepping in from the treeline or off the laneway. Also there's a light layer of fresh snow in case someone might suggest a person sticking out of the trunk or whatever. There's no human prints. If you can come to terms with that then and perhaps some may reconsider that the Yeti are the most likely responsible for this tradgedy.
(https://i.ibb.co/pX0G6vG/Sasq-trackway-that-dissappears.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Hi Tracker. Intersting photograph. So what happened to the rest of the tracks? I have read various reports about the abilities of these creatures (if they exist) including that their eyes glow red ( whats that all about?), and that they may even have their own form of language. Maybe this for discussion on a different thread though.
To the point- The Yeti were probably right outside the Dyatlov 9's tent on the Mtn side that night. Then they hit the 9 with screams or infrasound and didn't leave a single print. Investigators wouldn't find any obvious evidence it was the Yeti. It's a real game changer for this 60 year old mystery Imo.
If the Yeti were right outside the tent or near the tent why didn't they just attack the group and take them all out? They would have been much faster, stronger and easily capable of taking them all down. Why didn't any of the 9 grab the weapons in the tent? You probably wouldn't want to attack a yeti with small axe anyway, but it's better than nothing if it came to defending yourself.
Initially Lyuda, Semyon and Thibo may have had significant injuries. Kolevatov is said to have had a deformed neck, but it's not clear what that means? He may have been able to walk himself. Rustem although injured may also have been able to walk himself. That would leave Dyatlov, Zina, and the two yuris. Possibly kolevatov. If one person carries Thibo on his back, and another Lyuda and Semyon is supported and aided by two members of the group they could have moved slowly down the slope. Obviously there are possible variations on how they could have helped the injured down the slope.I prefer the narrative where the two Yuri's die first and clothes are removed later. There is evidence for this in that the bodies are rolled over sometime after death?
I do think that the so called fire orbs may be responsible for what happened that night. Ivanov may have seen additional supporting evidence.
My narrative is that Okishev supports the story that Ivanov showed his evidence to the Central Committee and they ordered a shutdown on the case. That can only be because they saw convincing evidence. It has to be photographs of fire orbs. There are missing cameras, missing film rolls....
One thing to consider is the size of these so called fire orbs. The witness statements describe them as "moon size". Some of these people were up to 70km from kholat syakhl. This would mean the fire orbs would have been around about 500 metres in diameter. Imo it's unlikely that the actual objects were that big, perhaps lighting up the surrounding snow/water vapour. "Light surrounded by a mist".
Personally I am not stuck on any particular theory at the moment. I am slowly exploring the options and the possible variables (of which there seem to be many). My favourite currently is still the military accident. infrasound is a possibility. I think murder is still a possibility, but it doesn't lend itself to the facts of the case. For instance Semyon left with his camera, someone the group had knives with them to cut trees. If they were forced out of the tent and marched down the slope to their deaths I would expect their attackers to have searched them and not allowed them to take knives with them. Also, I would expect none of them to have boots, or that they had different levels of clothing. The distribution of the bodies doesn't match what I would expect for a murder. There a few key facts that kind of make murder less likely.Rocket fuel would provide a good source of NO2, but there has to be some persistence to create a poisonous cloud that forces them to abandon the tent.
It must be true that whoever removed the clothing from the two Yur's knew or thought that Lyuda etc were still alive. It may have been the ravine four that took the clothes or just the remaining group members who were trying to keep them alive. The ravine four were better dressed than the others so even with the injuries they had a better chance against the cold and therefore they may have lived longer than the two Yuri's. There were some items of clothing found between the cedar tree and the ravine. The exact sequence of events still needs to be thrashed out. There are quite a few variables that need to be thought through carefully.
It's possible that the orange orbs were smaller and brighter and therefore appeared as a larger more diffuse light source. It would be interesting to understand the visibility conditions in the area that night.
Ok so maybe the injuries weren't caused by a shock wave from HE despite what the pathologist said? It's unlikely they were caused by a car crash either. So what other possibilities are there?
Ball lightning exploding might fit the problem (because we don't know in detail what it is and how it might explode :)
1. Could they have fallen from the cedar tree? There is evidence that they climbed up to 5 metres? A fall even onto shallow snow would still produce significant forces to the chest in the range of about 2 tonnes.
After those injuries they aren't walking anywhere, certainly not to the ravine from the cedar. Those injuries happened very close to where they were found.
2. Could something else have hit fhem in the chest? Large bolders that had been thrown by something?
The lack of surface tissue damage makes it highly unlikely, i think the pathologist said something similar.
3. Is there a type of explosion that could cause the chest injuries but not an explosion capable of bursting the lungs?
Ball lightning?
I'd include Rustem so five, but it could be all seven, Igor and Zina not getting seriously injured just collecting "combat injuries".
Ok so maybe the injuries weren't caused by a shock wave from HE despite what the pathologist said? It's unlikely they were caused by a car crash either. So what other possibilities are there?
Ball lightning exploding might fit the problem (because we don't know in detail what it is and how it might explode :)
1. Could they have fallen from the cedar tree? There is evidence that they climbed up to 5 metres? A fall even onto shallow snow would still produce significant forces to the chest in the range of about 2 tonnes.
After those injuries they aren't walking anywhere, certainly not to the ravine from the cedar. Those injuries happened very close to where they were found.
2. Could something else have hit fhem in the chest? Large bolders that had been thrown by something?
The lack of surface tissue damage makes it highly unlikely, i think the pathologist said something similar.
3. Is there a type of explosion that could cause the chest injuries but not an explosion capable of bursting the lungs?
Ball lightning?
If the four of them fall into ravine or on each other, Zolotarev camera will be damaged. But the camera was intact only the film was destroyed probably due to water. It seems to be as his injuries occurred when he stood on his feet and what happened to him caused him broke his ribs but it did not knock him down. Would you know someone explain it?
The shoulder blade wasn't snapped in half as Nigel may lead you to believe.You're misquoting me, i said cracks...
Semyon's exhumation discovered a fractured shoulder blade missed by the pathologist
And I said 'may' lead you to believe. Its open ended for future use.
tongue2
And to be fair and honest.... this is your quote.QuoteSemyon's exhumation discovered a fractured shoulder blade missed by the pathologist
And I said 'may' lead you to believe. Its open ended for future use.
tongue2
And to be fair and honest.... this is your quote.QuoteSemyon's exhumation discovered a fractured shoulder blade missed by the pathologist
"Fair and honest" - such a refreshing change. bigjoke
To be fair fractured is ambiguous.
#1
Experts agree that Rustems skull was cracked due to expansion of the brain when freezing. We all know the body/brain consists of mostly water and how water expands when freezing.
#2
The shoulder blade wasn't snapped in half as Nigel may lead you to believe. It had a few nearly invisible hairline cracks on one side, and one of the TOP US forensic Pathologist says one blow from the front caused this. The force/energy has to go somewhere. The ribs transferred the force to the shoulder blade and subsequently broke under said force/stress. The blow was one, and does not have to take place while the victim is on his/her back.
Or self inflicted from falling over, possibly whilst drunk on N2O...
2. Such a blow is most likely to have been caused by another human. And quite correctly, it does not have to happen when the victim is on his or her back.
#1
Experts agree that Rustems skull was cracked due to expansion of the brain when freezing. We all know the body/brain consists of mostly water and how water expands when freezing.
#2
The shoulder blade wasn't snapped in half as Nigel may lead you to believe. It had a few nearly invisible hairline cracks on one side, and one of the TOP US forensic Pathologist says one blow from the front caused this. The force/energy has to go somewhere. The ribs transferred the force to the shoulder blade and subsequently broke under said force/stress. The blow was one, and does not have to take place while the victim is on his/her back.
1. No, experts would not agree on that. There is no certainty that this is the explanation - it is a theoretical possibility. To find out more, the skeleton has to be exhumed and the skull examined. Then it should be possible to find out whether the broken skull was the result from inside pressure or an impact from the outside.
2. Such a blow is most likely to have been caused by another human. And quite correctly, it does not have to happen when the victim is on his or her back.
2. Such a blow is most likely to have been caused by another human. And quite correctly, it does not have to happen when the victim is on his or her back.
Experts agree that Rustems skull was cracked due to expansion of the brain when freezing. We all know the body/brain consists of mostly water and how water expands when freezing.
Experts agree that Rustems skull was cracked due to expansion of the brain when freezing. We all know the body/brain consists of mostly water and how water expands when freezing.
That's interesting, but I wonder why other victims didn't have such skull damage?
Put a soda in the freezer.... tell me what happens.
Put a soda in the freezer.... tell me what happens.
But we are talking about Brains. And Brains are enclosed within strong Skulls. And they all had to deal with the same severe freezing weather conditions.
I guess freeze cracking and bruises obviously cannot be two separate injuries/events. nose1They can but the Laws of Probability are against you. declare1
Seems like a 50/50 deal to me. There isn't any proof either way. If you believe in one over the other, the burden of proof is on you.Probability isn't a proof, it's just probable.
Seems like a 50/50 deal to me. There isn't any proof either way. If you believe in one over the other, the burden of proof is on you.
This is above all the $9,000 question.... I agree
I do however believe there is a very real possiblity of the 9 becoming unfortunate victims of several events or (chain of events) in which lead to their deaths.
#1. Most of the intrigue of this mystery is due to the lack of evidence for all theories which leads one to rely on circumstantial evidence as the basis for the theory they subscribe to the most.
#2. Its a 50/50 chance said 'compelling' force came from outside of the tent, or within. I would lean more towards the latter given that the easiest explanation is usually correct. People tend to focus on more on what compelling force would make them go down the slope rather then what made them leave the tent when approaching this. For me, its a matter of what inside the tent would they want to flee from, not what is outside they would want to flee towards and subsequently be unprepared as described. What may have been the reason within the tent for said departure I dont know... But it shouldn't be overlooked yet alone ruled out.
#3. The injuries. I also believe most people tend to see the injuries as 'having' to be caused by someone from outside if the group. In reality, most victims know their attacker in one way shape or form. I do believe either case can be made, but I do not like to discount one over the other due to lack of evidence. We know most sustained injuries consistent with hand/hand combat, but honestly we have no idea who inflicted said injuries..... Could have well been amongst themselves. Another scenario that shouldn't be overlooked.
About the actions after leaving the tent: does anyone know how they managed to start a fire in -18...-25degC temperatures, with wind, and using only matches ?
(as I understand, the bottle of alcohol was found intact by the search teams at the tent, therefore they didn't use it).
If I try to start a fire at +18degC and with wind, using only matches, I have little to no chances of succeeding. At -18degC it would be impossible for me to do it. How did they do it ?
This is for me the most intriguing part. Those missing frames hold the truth of what happened there.It is possible, however given that it was night , it would be difficult for good photos to be done...
So just to clarify, all the "images" found on the "3 heads", "plane 1", "plane 2" and the rest of the psychic photography were all found supposedly on the 10 frames of Zolotarev strip of film found in Zolotarev's camera?My understanding is that the photos were found by Ivanov's daughter when he died and handed over to the DP foundation.
And the previous 17 frames were cut and removed and found where? At his home?
Thanks,
Brad
Thanks for the answer !
In your reconstitution of the facts, how long do you think it took the group to descend from the tent to the cedar tree ? 30min ? 40 min ?
Do we know who was the last man/woman standing? Or is this hard to investigate due to a short time frame between deaths.
By reading about this incredible mystery it seems obvious that someone hid something and that crucial part of evidence could solve this forever.
For me, this looks like a major cover-up and a some kind of mess made by Soviet authorities at a time and thus would really like to see a proper closure of this case.
Imo it all boils down to the Plane2 photo. If it is genuine then it points to Semyon's mystery photos being either military involvement, atmospheric electrical phenomenon or both.
Wrt to it's veracity, i think the two smudges are very significant. Just as if two pieces of snow/sleet/graupel have hit a lens kept warm by body heat and starting to melt. I struggle with the idea that this photo is a result of say water damage.
(https://i.ibb.co/PmRD3J5/Zolotaryov-camera-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K0YKRB9)
Another problem: why did Zolotaryov take his photo camera at night ?
Surely he must have known that any picture taken at night would result in not much, as there was no setup existing that would prepare the night photo shoot. Therefore, either he had it with him all the time, or it was something extraordinarily luminous in the night , that would have a chance in being caught on film.
About that , does anyone know from where did the 9 (or 10) negatives missing? Were they from the same film as the one known (the damaged one), or was it another film altogether?
Thank you for the answer !Do we know who was the last man/woman standing? Or is this hard to investigate due to a short time frame between deaths.
1. The Short interval between death is very improbable. It is necessary to analyze in details logic of events and logistics of actions of group. Then it turns out that this disorder of time can make the big size.
2. If judging by that that is described in criminal case and considering that I have told in point 1, the last Alexander Kolevatov should be lost.By reading about this incredible mystery it seems obvious that someone hid something and that crucial part of evidence could solve this forever.
Why you so think? I think that not clear events occur only in heads of researchers because they do not know many details of district and events. Is no point here that that hide. Though imaginations on a theme of spies and other imaginary essence it is possible to think up infinite set.For me, this looks like a major cover-up and a some kind of mess made by Soviet authorities at a time and thus would really like to see a proper closure of this case.
You sometime saw as there are such searches in real time and own eyes? I think that it was not. Then it is clear, why you consider that who that confused it specially. In life all submits to laws of information entropy. The nature disseminates the information in the same way as well as warmly. What to collect and order the information it would be necessary to put a lot of time, it is a lot of forces and it is necessary to have many special knowledge that there would be a possibility it to make well.
Why all of you so complicate? What to consider that «there was something unusually bright at night which could get to cinema.» (c), it is necessary to have though what that basis for this purpose. It is possible to think up it is artificial anything you like, but the real bases are necessary. What facts result in it?I'm thinking about the luminous spheres that were reported by another group, situated 30km East of the Dyatlov group and about the newspaper article signed by Lev Ivanov, published in Nov 1990, concerning the "Mystery of the fireballs". Both accounts suggest that luminous spheres were in the air during the fatal night. Therefore, Zolotaryov (and not only him) could have been attempting to photograph them. However, I am intrigued about what exact capabilities there were for making night pictures. It would be great to see night photos made in 1959 with the existent cameras...
About that , does anyone know from where did the 9 (or 10) negatives missing? Were they from the same film as the one known (the damaged one), or was it another film altogether?
Imo it all boils down to the Plane2 photo. If it is genuine then it points to Semyon's mystery photos being either military involvement, atmospheric electrical phenomenon or both.
Nigel, you the serious person why at you imaginations gush forth without any measure?
Already many times said that it is:
1. Too small size on a negative (a little thousand or ten-thousand - 10 in a minus of 4 or 5 degrees - an inch share).
2. It not in Simeon's films, and scraps of films of other operators.
3. Scraps not in the end, and in the middle of different films Are located it.
4. It precisely corresponds (both under the form and on the size) to loss of crystals of sulphite of sodium (Na2SO3) of that the film has been washed badly out at development.
It is necessary to know well features and to have good practice of a chemical photo (on a photosensitive film and with chemical processing in a consequence) what not to do such hasty conclusions
It I cannot already explain it to Valentine Jakimenko a lot of time in any way. He agrees with all arguments, but continues to dream on this theme. From it also there is this conversation «about planes», that «removed the falling rocket» and etc.
Could not remove it because the rocket in the end of flight flies with a speed more from 1 to 5 km a second (are some miles a second) and it does not have appreciable luminescence, even at night.
And to remove the plane at night, it in general behind an imagination side. Especially if it high-speed.
Imo it all boils down to the Plane2 photo. If it is genuine then it points to Semyon's mystery photos being either military involvement, atmospheric electrical phenomenon or both.
Nigel, you the serious person why at you imaginations gush forth without any measure? It's good you think i'm a serious person! kewl1
Already many times said that it is:
1. Too small size on a negative (a little thousand or ten-thousand - 10 in a minus of 4 or 5 degrees - an inch share).
2. It not in Simeon's films, and scraps of films of other operators. How do you know this? Such certainty from a "serious person" like you?.... kewl1
3. Scraps not in the end, and in the middle of different films Are located it.
4. It precisely corresponds (both under the form and on the size) to loss of crystals of sulphite of sodium (Na2SO3) of that the film has been washed badly out at development. I would need to see the Plane2 negative to form such an opinion. Have you seen it?
It is necessary to know well features and to have good practice of a chemical photo (on a photosensitive film and with chemical processing in a consequence) what not to do such hasty conclusions
It I cannot already explain it to Valentine Jakimenko a lot of time in any way. He agrees with all arguments, but continues to dream on this theme. From it also there is this conversation «about planes», that «removed the falling rocket» and etc.
Could not remove it because the rocket in the end of flight flies with a speed more from 1 to 5 km a second (are some miles a second) not if it malfunctions and it does not have appreciable luminescence, even at night. If the Plane2 photo is genuine then there is some other light source illuminating everything.
And to remove the plane at night, it in general behind an imagination side. Especially if it high-speed.
Hello Nigel. If they had to enlarge the photo 1000 times in order to see this shape, then how could they see it with the naked eye?Hi, we need an image of the entire frame of the Plane2 negative in order to answer these questions about scale. Without this it's all just conjecture.
In a book I have (I'll have to check which one), it gives us the name of someone (a specialist in the area of photography) who examined the photos and the process that he went through to get the Plane 2 picture. He says something about the frames being blank, so he keeps blowing them up till he gets a shape and then he ( of course) names each photo.That's certainly the case for the "Eagle" photos and the ones showing the sprocket holes. But it's not clear to me what he's done with the Plane photos?
Hi Nigel. It would be nice to find out what kind of plane it could possibly be and check its shape and dimensions with the picture and see if they correspond. To me, the tail of the plane looks like it is almost as high as the body of the plane is long. loco1Hi there. Assuming it is a man made craft.... Any identification of a craft in distress using hypergolic fuel pumped at pressure in a nighttime photo has to deal with the fact that fuel components could be leaking and hence reacting creating "false structure". Also objects travelling at mach speeds create air shear that results in "false structure", e.g. play this at 1.20 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwn4LVVvAUQ Also it's possible that Plane 1 and 2 are shots of different bits of the same craft falling separately.
That was an interesting video. But in the video the only thing lit up was the fuel burning at the tail and not the whole rocket (like plane 2 for example).Witnesses saw the flash of an explosion in Ivdel.
Also, if that plane was breaking up and going to crash, when it hit you would have heard it and felt it for many miles around.
You are right; I forgot about that.Don't forget the very high winds could mask any bang.
I am not sure how far Ivdel is from the sight of their tent or the cedar, but even if they did see a flash what about the sound. We used to live about 20 to 30 plus miles from a naval bombing range and when (on the rare occasion) one of the jets/planes crashed, we knew (sounded and felt a lot like when they dropped a bomb).
Hi Nigel. It would be nice to find out what kind of plane it could possibly be and check its shape and dimensions with the picture and see if they correspond. To me, the tail of the plane looks like it is almost as high as the body of the plane is long. loco1
Are you suggesting that the tent was burned by the stove?