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Author Topic: Vladimir Askinadzi  (Read 9033 times)

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September 25, 2023, 09:02:41 AM
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Teddy

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Vladimir Askinadzi, the man who led the students' search group that found the den and the last four bodies, has agreed graciously to answer our questions in an interview that Oleg Taymen will organize and I will lead. The questions will be vetted at our sole discretion. Please read all that you can find since no repetitive questions will be allowed. If Vladimir Askinadzi has once answered a question we will not ask it again. Also please do not ask old stuff e.g. is the cedar cut off or did Zolotaryov wear the two watches. The answers are no and no. I am giving you a chance to participate in this interview but only because I am very thrilled by the opportunity and afraid to miss something important. Please read carefully these interviews for starters:
Vladimir Askinadzi. Selected passages from 10 years of correspondence with Galina Sazonova
Askinadzi answering questions - part 2
Askinadzi. Selected passages from letters - part 1
Vladimir Askinadzi interview 2012 - Maya Piskareva
Vladimir Askinadzi interview 2014 - Natalya Varsegova
"Chiken a la Otorten" - excerpts from Vladimir Askinadzi's personal archive and memoirs "We are the last of the Mohicans"
We still haven't confirmed a date when the interview will take place. Please write here your questions this by the end of the month (September 2023).
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 01:42:55 AM by Teddy »
 
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September 25, 2023, 10:29:12 AM
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Teddy

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Anna, Askinadzi is against criminal version, he told me so. Please refrain from posting anything that is slightly referring to your book or version. I am serious.

In general, I will not ask Askinadzi what he thinks happened. He doesn't know what happened.
His recollections are good for facts, not speculations. Read his interview by Maya Piskareva, he says several times that he will not hypothesize.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2023, 10:37:08 AM by Teddy »
 

September 25, 2023, 12:23:02 PM
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Ziljoe


Excellent. I do wonder if they get tired of being asked questions . Sounds respectful too.
 

September 25, 2023, 12:59:17 PM
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Teddy

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What does my book have to do with it?
Here are all the links to V.M.A.'s questions and answers from the forum "About everything strange". On the website IN CONTACT, V.M.A. answers very specifically: "My version is MURDER!" Here's how he responded in large print.
https://mistika.forum2.net/viewtopic.php?id=440&ysclid=lmz6bxmko593755170
Thank you. I will not repeat any of these questions.
He told me he no longer believes it's murder.
So to all of you - no murder questions.
 

September 25, 2023, 03:10:32 PM
Reply #4
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amashilu

Global Moderator
We still haven't confirmed a date when the interview will take place. Please write here your questions this by the end of the month (September 2023).

My question for Mr. Askinadzi would be: At the time when you were there, during the search, what did you see, or not see that others saw, or hear, or witness, or discover, that you were puzzled by, that opened a question in your mind, something that made you wonder, that you still think about? Of course, this could be many things, not just one.
 

September 25, 2023, 07:58:24 PM
Reply #5
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Teddy

Administrator
We still haven't confirmed a date when the interview will take place. Please write here your questions this by the end of the month (September 2023).

My question for Mr. Askinadzi would be: At the time when you were there, during the search, what did you see, or not see that others saw, or hear, or witness, or discover, that you were puzzled by, that opened a question in your mind, something that made you wonder, that you still think about? Of course, this could be many things, not just one.

This is kind of broad. At the time he didn't know that others didn't see what he saw and he didn't see what other's saw. He saw Zolotaryov holding a notepad and a pencil, and didn't see a camera on Zolotaryov.

An example of a good question would be the one Maya Piskareva asked in 2012 and Askinadzi didn't answer very well. I will ask him again because I didn't get satisfied by his answer. Did you?

MP: Vladimir Mihaylovich, here’s another question about the spruce forest, which was chopped, and which you all saw while searching. Why didn’t you immediately have the idea to search in this spruce forest, in this place? You searched everywhere, but only in May did you start looking in the spruce forest?

VMA: Good question!! This spruce forest has not yet given Yuri Blinov peace. But he was temporarily stuck on Yuri Yudin's’s information regarding clothing. It turned out that the four guys who were not found were so well dressed that they could have gone down the Lozva river. And you need to look in the Lozva Valley (or already in America!!!). They passed this information on to us by inheritance, and we lost 3-4 days on this. After all, nothing was known about the den; there was some clothing there, not on them. Why did I remember Yuri Yudin again?? There was simply no other information and we blindly believed every word he said.
---------------------------------
You need to get into the style Vladimir Askinadzi thinks. He is very direct, frank, sharp minded, with a sense of humor. "Chicken a la Otorten" - he said that, I borrowed this form him, only he always says partridges or wood grouse.

If you want to see photos of Askinadzi here are some from around the web and some that he sent me: https://dyatlovpass.com/askinadzi-photos

And don't worry, I will give him plenty of chance to say what he wants to say, what he has to say, but now I ma gathering some sensible questions because he wants to read them beforehand mainly to avoid sending him in la-la land.

I will end with something like: "After all these years, do you need a theory to be able to continue remembering the events from 1959?"
Amashilu, your question will be transformed into what I said - Why do you think people remember different thinks... is it the stress, shock, how can we interpret the facts after all the holes that Ivanov and live witnesses left us with? ... and I will tell him the story of my subdural hematoma when a spot in my brain was flooded with blood and stopped working the data from an area in front did not get "upstairs" and the surrounding areas of the brain decide to interpolate i.e. fill in the blanks with information that wasn't there and this created abominations. Is this what's happening with the Dyatlov case?

I will be away for 3 days. I am backpacking. Please behave yourself :)
 
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September 29, 2023, 10:33:47 PM
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KathleenDSmith1


Hello:

It is nice to meet you, knowing you knew the victims (9 hikers) and what is read in Askinadzi 2012 and gathered is this particular photo regarding "Den" this snow hillside photo "IS" near the den or (stream) where 4 of the bodies were found. because if all 4 didn't realize how close to the edge of the snow hillside that slip/fall could have "unknown compelling force" injuries...but...we all ask this question, why did all 9 hikers, leave the tent without essential clothing and boots???

sending image 

Thanks
Kathleen D. Smith

 

September 30, 2023, 02:50:50 AM
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Teddy

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we all ask this question, why did all 9 hikers, leave the tent without essential clothing and boots???
How do you expect him to answer a questions like that? Ask him what he saw, what he remembers, how they did things back then.
I don't see the value of speculations even if they come from a man like Askinadzi.

About the image. This is not anywhere near the den, it says "Near Otorten". Vladimir Askinadzi said in the interview from 2012 this photo was made when they were marched to look for the missing hikers for signs if they didn't "abscond to America". Askinadzi says that because of trips like that he can say he climbed Otorten. This is not near where the bodies were found. From this photo to the den is 12 km.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 03:45:16 AM by Teddy »
 
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September 30, 2023, 05:32:42 AM
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Teddy

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MP: Vladimir Mihaylovich, here’s another question about the spruce forest, which was chopped, and which you all saw while searching. Why didn’t you immediately have the idea to search in this spruce forest, in this place? You searched everywhere, but only in May did you start looking in the spruce forest?

I am not going to ask this question. They didn't see the chopped tops of the trees till the snow melted down to reveal them in May. This is why it is good to bounce questions beforehand, some could be answered so we don't waste Askinadzi's time. Here are the questions I am still going to ask, only the beginning:

  • Has Askinadzi led or participated in category 3 winter expedition? What it matters is how the decisions were made.
     
  • If the tent was pitched in the forest did they always put branches underneath or could they use skis as they did on a treeless slope.

     

     
    Askinadzi on setting up a tent in winter (from my private mail exchange):
    It is at the sole discretion of the leader of the group if to put up a tent on skis or spruce branches. In winter when the days are short, sometimes there’s not enough time to set up a good camp (we arrived at the end point late). This is where you need to show power! Setting up a tent on skis takes much less time than on spruce branches, but there are some nuances - does the group have enough warm clothes to lay for insulation?
    If the leader decided, and he had the opportunity, to put up a tent on the spruce branches, it means he had enough daylight for this. But, in this case, he must either be an alpha leader or a the group to work well together. Setting up a tent on spruce branches will take much longer than with skis. At least half of the group will be diverted to this activity. If the hike is multi-day, the leader, even before setting out on the route, decides who will set up the tent(s), so that people know their job (this is practiced in training hikes) and, without a command, take axes and go to harvest spruce branches. Skis were sometimes placed under spruce branches when there was not enough spruce branches.
     
  • If it is was up to him, where would he pitch the tent. He knows the tent and he is familiar with the terrain in winter.
     
    Note: The underlying context of the questions above is tied to the labaz. The labaz according to many is fishy: There was no labaz
    According to Igor Pavlov and I, the labaz is setup the way it would be on the slope. We believe that the Dyatlov group is digging up the labaz on this photo.

     
    The details of our theory concerning the labaz can be found in CHAPTER 23. DYATLOV EIGHT OR NINE and I am not going to repeat them here, there are pages long.
     
    My point is that how come the same people that made the rookie mistake to build a labaz in the forest same as they allegedly found it on the slope can figure out to use skis under the tent during the staging if they found it on top of spruce branches in the forest?
     
    No point to ask Askinadzi how would he make a food supply storage: Interview 2012, page 10:
    VMA: I never left behind food supplies, there was no need. I'm a hiker - a pilot. For winter roads this is relevant, and only if the return route goes through them (and it cannot be otherwise). My goodness, you can draw a hundred and one options without looking. Did I describe to you why group leaders rarely join other groups? Leadership conflict is inevitable unless the alpha leader has absolute authority. Because for any decision of a weak leader there will be a dozen other, probably better, options. I witnessed such a conflict in a group of Moscow hikers. The finale was the corpse of one of the leaders. Therefore, I will leave it at "I don’t invent hypotheses".
     
  • What was on the menu, what kind of cans where they opening. Milk - condensed or cream? Supplies, who gave them the provisions. I know already that it is the army warehouse in Ivdel, and I know from the CEO of the Lyubinskiy Molochnokonservnyy Kombinat (LMKK) Gennadiy Valter that in 1959 the food supplies were still following wartime orders and condensed milk was sent to the GOST reserve (military reserve) and distributed from there to everyone that was given free food supplies from the government. Vladimir Askinadzi who was on the Pass Apr 25-May 5 said that they received their food supplies from the army warehouse in Ivdel.
     
  • How did they open them. How did they discard them.
    Vladimir Askinadzi said they always opened cans with an ax, the way the condensed milk found in the May searchers camp is opened, he pointed out this photo:

     
    The can from cream found under the cedar was opened with a knife.

     
    Vladimir Askinadzi said that they crushed the cans from condensed milk by the fire with their boots and gathered all the garbage in one place only before leaving the camp.
    The can found under the cedar was from cream, opened with a knife, crushed with a boot. This means someone was camping under the cedar and was not the searchers, since they had condensed milk, not cream.
     
    Here are some questions for Askinadzi from other Russian researchers:
     
  • Askinadzi said that when they first dug up Lyuda another head appeared 20-30 cm from her head. On the photo with the three bodies we see the ledge where Lyuda head used to be before they moved her away to gain access to the rest of the bodies. But the nearest to "her" ledge head is that of Thibeaux-Brignolle covered by a jacket "inflated" with water. Judging by the photo, the "inflated" jacket is located about a meter from Lyuda's head. Is it possible to somehow clarify this inconsistency and, perhaps, show on the photo with the three bodies in the stream where Thibeaux-Brignolle's head is*?

    * I am going to clarify with Shura this question since it seems to me that if the blue is "Lyuda's" ledge then the "inflated" jacket seems like exactly 20-30 cm away. This means I need to clarify with Shura where does he think Lyuda's head was.


     
  • When you went to the labaz, did you go down to it along the preserved traces/path of the search engines? If according to the preserved traces, then did they deviate in any direction from the path/trail of the searchers in order to approach the labaz? On your way to the labaz, did you have to overcome any ravines or did you just go down without any obstacles?
     
  • Did you go all the way to the winter search camp? If you went, is it possible to somehow clarify the position of the searchers camp relative to the labaz?

To be continued...
 

September 30, 2023, 06:56:05 AM
Reply #9
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amashilu

Global Moderator
Teddy, let me try to simplify my too-broad question!

Could you ask him, Was there any one thing you noticed that puzzled you, that you still think about?

Thanks! I really look forward to the interview, and thank you for setting it up.
 

September 30, 2023, 07:07:08 AM
Reply #10
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Teddy

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Was there any one thing you noticed that puzzled you, that you still think about?

How about: After all these years, what remains the most troubling detail of your experience on the Dyatlov Pass?
 

September 30, 2023, 07:39:23 AM
Reply #11
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amashilu

Global Moderator
Love it! Thank you.
 

September 30, 2023, 08:43:16 AM
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anna_pycckux


Vladimir Mikhailovich! Have you ever had a personal conversation with Yeshtokin or Kirilenko? Or with someone from the Sverdlovsk regional Committee? If so, what was the conversation about?
 

October 06, 2023, 07:14:32 AM
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Teddy

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Just published:  Askinadzi. Selected passages from letters - part 1
The interviews and letters I present you with so far have been around, as you can see.
What comes next has never been published before but it will take me some time.
55 pages written in 10 years.
Bear with me.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 07:30:05 AM by Teddy »
 
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October 06, 2023, 09:06:44 AM
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anna_pycckux


Thank you for the important information. The text immediately caught my eye: "After the last bodies were found, a purge began at the institute. They started firing everyone who was even in the slightest degree involved in this event. Gordo, the chairman of the UPI sports club, was fired...." But there is information that Gordo was not fired, on the contrary, he was even awarded. If a member of the trade union committee Slobodin was dismissed, it was not immediately, perhaps only in 1961 (only in 1961 the signature of the new head of the trade union committee Titov appeared).
 

October 06, 2023, 09:14:22 AM
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Teddy

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From Resolution to close the case

"For the shortcomings in the organization of sports work and weak control of the bureau of the Sverdlovsk GC the CPSU punished in party terms: the director of the Ural Polytechnic Institute Siunov, the secretary of the party bureau Zaostrovskiy, the chairman of the trade union UPK Slobodin, the chairman of the city union of voluntary sports societies Kurochkin and the inspector of the union Ufimtsev. The chairman of the board of the sports club of the Institute Gordo has been removed from work."
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 09:21:41 AM by Teddy »
 

October 06, 2023, 12:22:16 PM
Reply #16
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Teddy

Administrator
This is after time. When the case was closed Gordo was fired. I am not going to contradict Askinazi on this.
 

October 06, 2023, 12:27:21 PM
Reply #17
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anna_pycckux


This is after time. When the case was closed Gordo was fired. I am not going to contradict Askinazi on this.
It was announced to everyone in the UPI that the perpetrators would be punished... but only in words, but in fact no one was punished.



« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 01:07:54 PM by anna_pycckux »
 

October 06, 2023, 01:46:05 PM
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Teddy

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All these people had nothing to do with the accident. The party needed scapegoats.
 
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October 09, 2023, 04:34:48 PM
Reply #19
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Teddy

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« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 09:54:59 PM by Teddy »
 
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October 09, 2023, 10:59:06 PM
Reply #20
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Teddy

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Anna, Askinadzi is against criminal version, he told me so. Please refrain from posting anything that is slightly referring to your book or version. I am serious.

In general, I will not ask Askinadzi what he thinks happened. He doesn't know what happened.
His recollections are good for facts, not speculations. Read his interview by Maya Piskareva, he says several times that he will not hypothesize.

I have to make a confession. I never discussed with Askinadzi what theory does he believe in. When I wrote the above I meant what he wrote to Piskareva in 2012: "No one hit them on the head. No-one!! If someone were an outsider who allegedly hit humble 20-year-old strong guys on the head, then he (or they) should have hit not just one, but everyone. This means there should be as many of these hitters as there were guys (7 people), or there were no one and you should look somewhere else. Look for it!!!"

Then two years later Askinadzi says in an interview to Komsomolskaya Pravda: "I thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that no spontaneous force could kill the nine healthy and fit guys. They could not just freeze in those conditions. Well, again, these inexplicable injuries. Don’t ask me, I don’t know who or why were they murdered. But this seems to me the only explanation of their death."

Then Anna Pusskyh pointed out that he proclaims to support murder. This seems to be the case although Askinadzi says in 2020 (p. 1-3): "MURDER!!!! Whether it was premeditated or a manslaughter is another question."

You can see the gentle curve. Askinadzi can not find other explanation for the trauma. What is there is an explanation?

I presented Askinadzi with some questions to see how he will react, and the result is not good. To the questions Anna Russkyh sent me e.g.
Question from Anna Russkyh: Did Vladimir Mihaylovich have to talk with Eshtokin or Kirilenko or anyone from the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee?
Sergey Sogrin said that Eshtokin (Kirilenko’s deputy) was in Ivdel during the search, monitored the progress of the search and talked with the searchers. I asked Sogrin what they talked about with Eshtokin? Sogrin did not answer.

Askinadzi: Анну Васильевну («Русских») всё ещё не отпускают фантомные боли от высшей советской бюрократии!
Anna Vasilyevna ("Russkyh") is still haunted by phantom pains from the highest Soviet bureaucracy!

To Anna Russkyh: I included your questions and answers to Askinadzi in my last post. Please do not include screenshots of Russian text. The majority won't understand a thing, they can not translate, and the red is not helping since it makes it look important while you only want to point what are you referring to. Copy/paste the text with the link instead.

Askinadzi won't answer this question either.
Was there any one thing you noticed that puzzled you, that you still think about?

How about: After all these years, what remains the most troubling detail of your experience on the Dyatlov Pass?

To the rest of the questions I tried Askinadzi answered:
Please block the stupid questions. Will it bring us closer to solving the root problem? Or we’ll go in circles, we’ll stomp around, and, forgetting why we stopped, we’ll stomp on further. All the questions go around in circles.
Пожалуйста, блокируйте сами дурные вопросы. Приблизит к решению коренного вопроса? Или опять потопчемся на одном месте, потопчемся, и, забыв зачем останавливались, потопаем дальше. Все вопросы ходят кругами.
==============================
Please read all the interviews that I have published so far and get smarter. Askinadzi feels that he has information for us only if we can ask the right questions.

I have more information coming, the mother lode. 10 years of correspondence between Askinadzi an Galina Sazonova. As you can see I am a little busy.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 11:05:19 PM by Teddy »
 
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October 10, 2023, 12:25:44 AM
Reply #21
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anna_pycckux


1. It is a pity that Vladimir Askinaji (like Sogrin) did not answer my question.
2. About screenshots in Russian: I heard that there is a translator of text from screenshots. It is difficult for me to translate such voluminous texts myself.
3. Teddy, it's a pity that you deleted the video of the testimony from Channel one, where V. Askenadzi himself personally says very specifically: "A murder was committed here." If you allow me, I will upload this video again.
 

October 11, 2023, 08:08:59 AM
Reply #22
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Teddy

Administrator
3. Teddy, it's a pity that you deleted the video of the testimony from Channel one, where V. Askenadzi himself personally says very specifically: "A murder was committed here." If you allow me, I will upload this video again.

Please don't, I saw it and no one else can understand it.
 

October 23, 2023, 05:16:11 AM
Reply #23
Online

Ziljoe


Hi teddy.
 Is this correct? Or should it be 68 pounds? He might be on a raft but a 68kg  backpack would cut your arms off! Walking about with 150 pounds on his back is extreme!

Page 5 , question 9.

On a trip to Altai (Katun River), my backpack weighed 63 kg with my weight being 61 kg (!!), this is for example, and when we went to Tsipu River (Trans-Baikal), my backpack already weighed 68 kg.
 

October 23, 2023, 07:31:40 AM
Reply #24
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Teddy

Administrator
You can check the source, I have included the link at the top, just search for "61".
Rafting is somewhat different I imagine because once you get to the river you no longer carry the load on your back. Still, you need to get to the river.
He must have been a real tough cookie.
 
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October 23, 2023, 08:37:09 AM
Reply #25
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Ziljoe


You can check the source, I have included the link at the top, just search for "61".
Rafting is somewhat different I imagine because once you get to the river you no longer carry the load on your back. Still, you need to get to the river.
He must have been a real tough cookie.

Thanks, you've led me to another rabbit hole.
 

November 03, 2023, 11:34:42 AM
Reply #26
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WAB


Dear GlennM , you are asking such elementary questions that it is not necessary to contact Mr. Askinadzi to do so. Especially since he was there only 2 months after the tent was dismantled from where it was. Anyone who has visited the place and knows the specifics of this case well can answer you just as expertly.
So:

Was the tent oriented with its broad side or narrow side facing the direction of the prevailing wind?

Wide. This is due to the fact that otherwise it cannot be placed in such a way that it would be suitable for a comfortable overnight stay.

Was the tent cut into a snow ledge?

The question is not clearly formulated. At this place the ground along the slope was leveled to the width of the tent and nothing else had to be done. For example, like this picture:

https://disk.yandex.ru/i/cG0Vot7p3ZtAYA

Digging a hole for a tent means doing a lot of unnecessary and harmful work. The tent will get snowed in more when the snow drifts over, without any benefits for the reliability of the overnight stay.

Can boot rock be seen from the tent?

You can't see the rock from the tent. The fabric of the tent interferes.  grin1 if you leave the tent and do not move away an inch, it is clearly visible in weather of average quality.
(I will not give you a photo, you need a lot of action, it's a pity to waste time).

What personal objects were found outside the tent ?

According to various sources (not only the texts of the criminal case) there was an ice axe, 2 skis and some small things nearby. This was confirmed by the search participants Boris Slobtsov and Mikhail Sharavin. All other things "appeared" later, as a result of conversations around the case.

Were personal objects  found a great distance from the tent, but not in the forest?

Except for an electric flashlight, which was found 400 m (1200 ft) away from the tent, everything else was found either near the cedar, or directly near the tent, or inside the tent.

Was dried blood detected anywhere other than the bodies during the recovery?

No. There is no such information either in the criminal case file or in the additional testimony of the searchers.

Was there evidence to indicate animal activity in the tent?

There was no clear evidence. Not even any statements in the memoirs. According to the available reliable information, animals do not go out of the vegetation boundaries at such times. Only traces of small birds can be seen on the snow of this slope, but when there is even a slight wind on the slope, they do not fly there either. However, there is wind there almost always.

Was anyone criticized at the time of discovery for doing something to make the investigation harder? If yes, what was tampered with?

This question will not be answered unequivocally by anyone who participated in the search. Even if there were such conversations, they were either private and speculative, or they were too distracted from reality. To answer this question specifically, one must carefully formulate the individual difficulties in understanding it, and carefully study the legislation of that time to get a clear answer. One should not forget that the practice of law application and what is written on paper often do not coincide, because it is impossible to foresee all the details and diversity in life.
To separate the issue of forgery, you need to understand: who and why it was necessary. As well as what insurmountable difficulties may arise here. It is always easier to do nothing than to fake something. In addition, many of the shortcomings of the investigation are due to lack of knowledge (which you have now, because you are considering it now, when everything is already known, not predicting what will be in 60 years after!) and the usual human errors and forgetfulness. There is simply no such thing as perfect working conditions. Even the weather is not always good.  grin1
 
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November 03, 2023, 08:30:18 PM
Reply #27
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GlennM


Thank you Wab for complete answers to my questions. I have an idea that the kind of questions for Vlladimir to answer that are not declared simple have nothing to do physical things like  bodies, tents, trees and ravines.  Vladimir does not wish to answer "why", and everyone already knows the " how"of it. Bad things can happen to good people. Nature is indifferent. I would not be surprised if Vladamir concludes the same thing. Thank you again.



 
 

December 18, 2023, 02:02:56 AM
Reply #28
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Teddy

Administrator
@ WAB Thank you for stopping by!


You may have noticed my absence in the last months. I decided to have one last surgery to fix the damage from the accident I had in 2012 which brought me to the Dyatlov case. Well, it did go exactly as planned (scroll down → distal-humerus.com). The nerves of my hand got damaged and as a result I am suffering from hyperpathia. It hurts, can't sleep, tried medication but it will last at least 4 months and I don't want to get addicted.So I type on the keyboard with one finger like a chicken. Also I go to therapy everyday and have very little time left. Vladimir Askinadzi has been very patient with me, he said that we have all our lives ahead to discuss the case.But I am back on the saddle now. Took me a little longer to translate his selection of 10 years of correspondence with researcher, Dr. Galina Sazonova (aka Vietnamka), a nickname she got because she and her husband work and live in Vietnam.





 
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December 18, 2023, 06:27:20 AM
Reply #29
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Ziljoe


Vladimir Askinadzi thoughts and  observations seem very logical and neutral. I had not read them all. I still get a little confused of the den, ravine 4 and ceder orientation though.