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February 22, 2019, 12:10:57 PM
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cib


Hello and congratulations for the forum because it is very complete. I simply provide three aspects:

1. In 1959 there was a military chemical weapons laboratory in Burmantovo, which is 19 km from Vizhay and 78km from the Dyatlov Pass, and on January 25 when the expedition says goodbye to Vizhay from a contingent of troops heading to its base . In 1960 the installation was closed and transferred to Military Complex 19, created in 1946 and also located in Sverdlovsk Oblast.

Sources:
- https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vizhai
- https://dyatlovpass.com/diaries?lid=1#25jan (1,2,15)
- Location: https://postimg.cc/PP78XqMP / https://postimg.cc/mz8Lpc5V


2. Parts and fuselages such as the UR-100 missile that were launched since 1965 have been found in the area. On February 2, 1959, there is a launch from Kasputin Yar of a R5-M missile and in the coordinates: I have located less than 1,500 m a possible rock formation that could also be an impact of a meteoroid, a lightning or a missile. I have made a sketch and the coordinates are:61°45'48.6"N 59°24'30.2"E 

Sources:
- https://kp.ua/life/552995-nedaleko-ot-perevala-diatlova-naiden-neopoznannyi-obekt-eta-shtukovyna-tochno-upala-s-neba
- http://www.astronautix.com/k/kapustinyar.html
- Sketch: https://postimg.cc/5XmDpRPP

3. It is frequent to read in various articles that the expedition reigned harmony and happiness, but it is not true:

3.1. Diary of Igor Dyatlov, day 28:

"The suspended stove radiates heat and divides the store into two sections. The back section is occupied by me and Zina. Nobody wants to sleep by the stove. We agree that Yurka Kri (Krivonischenko) will sleep there. On the other side the service person sleeps (Sasha Kolevatov). Yurka could not stand the heat and, after lying down for 1-2 minutes, got up and went to the second section cursing and accusing us of treason. After that, they kept arguing about something for a long time, but in the end everything was quiet. "

Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlov-group-diary

3.2. Diary of Zinaida Kolmogorova: day 28:

"Burned mittens and the second padded jacket of Yurkin. He cursed a lot"

"Last night the kids made stupid jokes. In my opinion, if we do not pay attention to them, they may be less rude "

day 29:

"We went to bed to sleep, Igor was rude all night, I just could not recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."

Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova-diary

Thank you.


 

February 22, 2019, 01:35:23 PM
Reply #1
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Hello and congratulations for the forum because it is very complete. I simply provide three aspects:

1. In 1959 there was a military chemical weapons laboratory in Burmantovo, which is 19 km from Vizhay and 78km from the Dyatlov Pass, and on January 25 when the expedition says goodbye to Vizhay from a contingent of troops heading to its base . In 1960 the installation was closed and transferred to Military Complex 19, created in 1946 and also located in Sverdlovsk Oblast.

Sources:
- https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vizhai
- https://dyatlovpass.com/diaries?lid=1#25jan (1,2,15)
- Location: https://postimg.cc/PP78XqMP / https://postimg.cc/mz8Lpc5V


2. Parts and fuselages such as the UR-100 missile that were launched since 1965 have been found in the area. On February 2, 1959, there is a launch from Kasputin Yar of a R5-M missile and in the coordinates: I have located less than 1,500 m a possible rock formation that could also be an impact of a meteoroid, a lightning or a missile. I have made a sketch and the coordinates are:61°45'48.6"N 59°24'30.2"E 

Sources:
- https://kp.ua/life/552995-nedaleko-ot-perevala-diatlova-naiden-neopoznannyi-obekt-eta-shtukovyna-tochno-upala-s-neba
- http://www.astronautix.com/k/kapustinyar.html
- Sketch: https://postimg.cc/5XmDpRPP

3. It is frequent to read in various articles that the expedition reigned harmony and happiness, but it is not true:

3.1. Diary of Igor Dyatlov, day 28:

"The suspended stove radiates heat and divides the store into two sections. The back section is occupied by me and Zina. Nobody wants to sleep by the stove. We agree that Yurka Kri (Krivonischenko) will sleep there. On the other side the service person sleeps (Sasha Kolevatov). Yurka could not stand the heat and, after lying down for 1-2 minutes, got up and went to the second section cursing and accusing us of treason. After that, they kept arguing about something for a long time, but in the end everything was quiet. "

Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlov-group-diary

3.2. Diary of Zinaida Kolmogorova: day 28:

"Burned mittens and the second padded jacket of Yurkin. He cursed a lot"

"Last night the kids made stupid jokes. In my opinion, if we do not pay attention to them, they may be less rude "

day 29:

"We went to bed to sleep, Igor was rude all night, I just could not recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."

Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova-diary

Thank you.


Good Post. I have a few issues though.  First, the Hunter who found a large metallic object, which is probably of military origin and from an aircraft, lived and hunted about 30 kilometres  from the Dyatlov Pass. So thats a good distance away and hardly likely to have been connected with what happened at The Dyatlov pass.  Secondly, the fact that there was a Chemical Factory at  Burmantovo doesnt mean it is relevant to what happened at the Dyatlov Pass. Burmantovo being about 78 kilometres away. Thirdly, regarding the comradeship of the Dyatlov Group. I dont think we can read too much into certain entries in Diaries. Look at all of the photographs. The old saying, every picture tells a story. It looks to me and Iam sure most people would agree, that the Dyatlov Group got on very well together.
DB
 

February 22, 2019, 02:24:52 PM
Reply #2
Offline

WAB


Hello and congratulations for the forum because it is very complete. I simply provide three aspects:

1. In 1959 there was a military chemical weapons laboratory in Burmantovo, which is 19 km from Vizhay and 78km from the Dyatlov Pass, and on January 25 when the expedition says goodbye to Vizhay from a contingent of troops heading to its base . In 1960 the installation was closed and transferred to Military Complex 19, created in 1946 and also located in Sverdlovsk Oblast.

Sources:
- https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vizhai
- https://dyatlovpass.com/diaries?lid=1#25jan (1,2,15)
- Location: https://postimg.cc/PP78XqMP / https://postimg.cc/mz8Lpc5V


2. Parts and fuselages such as the UR-100 missile that were launched since 1965 have been found in the area. On February 2, 1959, there is a launch from Kasputin Yar of a R5-M missile and in the coordinates: I have located less than 1,500 m a possible rock formation that could also be an impact of a meteoroid, a lightning or a missile. I have made a sketch and the coordinates are:61°45'48.6"N 59°24'30.2"E 

Sources:
- https://kp.ua/life/552995-nedaleko-ot-perevala-diatlova-naiden-neopoznannyi-obekt-eta-shtukovyna-tochno-upala-s-neba
- http://www.astronautix.com/k/kapustinyar.html
- Sketch: https://postimg.cc/5XmDpRPP

3. It is frequent to read in various articles that the expedition reigned harmony and happiness, but it is not true:

3.1. Diary of Igor Dyatlov, day 28:

"The suspended stove radiates heat and divides the store into two sections. The back section is occupied by me and Zina. Nobody wants to sleep by the stove. We agree that Yurka Kri (Krivonischenko) will sleep there. On the other side the service person sleeps (Sasha Kolevatov). Yurka could not stand the heat and, after lying down for 1-2 minutes, got up and went to the second section cursing and accusing us of treason. After that, they kept arguing about something for a long time, but in the end everything was quiet. "

Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlov-group-diary

3.2. Diary of Zinaida Kolmogorova: day 28:

"Burned mittens and the second padded jacket of Yurkin. He cursed a lot"

"Last night the kids made stupid jokes. In my opinion, if we do not pay attention to them, they may be less rude "

day 29:

"We went to bed to sleep, Igor was rude all night, I just could not recognize him. I had to sleep on the wood near the stove."

Source: https://dyatlovpass.com/zinaida-kolmogorova-diary

Thank you.

CIB what for it is necessary to extend fake and frankly false information?
Here this phrase is completely false: « In 1959 there was a military chemical weapons laboratory in Burmantovo, which is 19 km from Vizhay and 78km from the Dyatlov Pass, and on January 25 when the expedition says goodbye to Vizhay from a contingent of troops heading to its base . In 1960 the installation was closed and transferred to Military Complex 19, created in 1946 and also located in Sverdlovsk Oblast. »
1.Never and anywhere, except a small site of Chistop mountain (from 1972 to 1986), there was not any military men. Without considering protection of several labour camps. Nearest of them was in Vizhay. It extends on all Ivdelsky municipal district.
2.“Army Top Vizhay”- it is big fake, than all the rest. It is settlement of woodcutters in which was is not more white 39 persons during the most good period. By the military man there to do absolutely it is possible nothing. They do not have any purpose.
3.There is a reference to the very badly made site in the Spanish section Wikipedia, about Vizhay. One that there is said that - I quote: “With the population of 5649 inhabitants in September, 2012” - is obvious lie. In 2010 by fire has burnt down all settlement, and all population has been moved to the Ivdel city. When in 2012 we together with the American writer Donnie Eichar were in Vizhae its population be 8 persons.
 
Panorama Vizhay settlement in 2012
4.The Most "outstanding" pearl of this site is that - I quote: “The Vizhay City is located on bank Birch river” (It is a fake. Vizhay settlement it is located on bank Vizhay river.)
5.About launch with co-ordinates «61 ° 45'48.6" N 59 ° 24'30.2"E»: here are felt a certain Valentine Degtyaryov's cut tail about which it has already been told at this forum: http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=323.0 
By the way it has missed and " hit" in interfluve the third and fourth inflow the Lozva river to 400 m from where there was tent. Instead of in that place in which he specified earlier. On it I will not be surprised, if he true IP-address is suspiciously similar to his IP-address from other Russian forum. It can be detected even if he writes through Anonymizer.  If man have good preparation in IP-technologies.
Addition possible tell that this information too is a fake too, because launch rocket R-5M from Kapustin Jar was, but the rocket flied in perfect other direction, has flown by all apprx. 900 km, it have found immediately, and distance to that point that it has resulted more than 2000 km, and the maximum range for Р-5М is equal 1200 km.
For big persuasiveness this CIB  has resulted also citations from diaries, but too partly fake. It can be not clear in translation, but if at the one who reads, and who Russian is native language it is visible approximately at once.
This style of representation information is borrowed Hitlerite fascist Goebbels: “Always to the big lie it is necessary to add a few truths that would look similar. And if the size lie more, and faster in it will believe”.
 

February 22, 2019, 02:35:12 PM
Reply #3
Offline

WAB



Good Post. I have a few issues though.  First, the Hunter who found a large metallic object, which is probably of military origin and from an aircraft, lived and hunted about 30 kilometres  from the Dyatlov Pass. So thats a good distance away and hardly likely to have been connected with what happened at The Dyatlov pass.  Secondly, the fact that there was a Chemical Factory at  Burmantovo doesnt mean it is relevant to what happened at the Dyatlov Pass. Burmantovo being about 78 kilometres away. Thirdly, regarding the comradeship of the Dyatlov Group. I dont think we can read too much into certain entries in Diaries. Look at all of the photographs. The old saying, every picture tells a story. It looks to me and Iam sure most people would agree, that the Dyatlov Group got on very well together.

Probably you have decided me to surprise, if so easily trust to fake messages.
I have very big suspicion that is tricks of one Russian adventurer and the expert about similar fakes. It is his style of giving information.
Plane and rocket fragments on this place have more later origin. Therefore yet have not invented time machine, they cannot be sent at the time of Dyatlov group.
 

February 22, 2019, 02:54:33 PM
Reply #4
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cib


Hello sarapuk, thanks for answering. Allow me 3 aspects:

1. I have not written that the fuselage remains and pieces found from the UR-100 missile are connected to what happened at the Dyatlov pass in 1959, since the missile is operational since the mid-60s. What I wanted to state, is that in said territorial area there is proof of missile impact. Therefore, I think it could be relevant to study the possible impact that I have located in the coordinates of the previous post.

2. Regarding the military chemical weapons laboratory of Burmantovo, which was closed a year after the tragedy, my intention was not to relate it directly but to confirm as a historical anecdote that the expedition was photographed on the 25th with a military contingent and finally, verify the existence of military complexes in said territorial area.

3. The photographs capture an instant and the newspapers reflect data. In my opinion, which is based on the diaries of Igor and Zina, are reflected several conflicts that could have been the trigger of a situation of unpredictable consequences.

Hello WAB, 3 aspects:

In my opinion, I am not spreading any false information. I have entered the forum to inform me. Is it clear to you?

1. According to Wikipedia, the military chemical laboratory was in the vicinity of Vizhay and was closed in 1960. I think I've located it in Burmantovo, so your explanation about Mount Chistop is a misrepresentation of yours.

2. There is proof of a release in Kasputin Yar and I have reflected it in the first post. Can you give me your sources of where the R-5M fell?

3. That a Russian blogger and I have coincided in observing with curiosity a possible missile impact does not imply that he agrees with it, because it can also be a natural formation or also a crater caused by a meteoroid or lightning.

Best regards to both




 

February 22, 2019, 03:40:23 PM
Reply #5
Offline

WAB



 3 aspects:

In my opinion, I am not spreading any false information. I have entered the forum to inform me. Is it clear to you?

I compare that you write to that I see and saw the eyes and on what I have documents, therefore I can judge what information is fake and what is not fake.

1. According to Wikipedia, the military chemical laboratory was in the vicinity of Vizhay and was closed in 1960. I think I've located it in Burmantovo, so your explanation about Mount Chistop is a misrepresentation of yours.

I was place in Burmantovo and all that I write grows out of district studying. Therefore I can precisely tell that there was, and that there was not. Besides I can use documents from many archives. The statement that in Burmantovo there was such laboratory is obvious lie.
The information from ostensibly Wikipedia is false, at least because in similar Russian article about it there is no word. Then there is a fair question: whence suddenly in the Spanish version be article about Russian Vizhay settlement there was information which is not present actually?
It if judge only on the Internet. However is also settlement where it can be learnt in the original. You were in Burmantovo settlement?
Therefore you could not "find out" it in any way. It is impossible to "find out" what never was.
In what my information about military facility on  Chistop mount is deformed?


2. There is proof of a release in Kasputin Yar and I have reflected it in the first post.

Furnish these proofs!

Can you give me your sources of where the R-5M fell?

I can give this source: Archive of Rocket and space forces. I studied this case at the desire of the participant searches Vladislav Karelin.
Besides I was the lecturer at aviation university and airforce academy.
I can learn your speciality and a profile by education, what I could size up how much skilled you can judge the rocket technics?

3. That a Russian blogger and I have coincided in observing with curiosity a possible missile impact does not imply that he agrees with it, because it can also be a natural formation or also a crater caused by a meteoroid or lightning.

1.It is Too much coincidence in giving of the information and style of a statement of "news".
2.I have  question: how and with what help of objects you could observe of rocket attack?
3.On this place (and in other, ostensibly from Russian blogger) it is not observed any craters. I too well know this place and its vicinities.
 

February 27, 2019, 10:02:03 AM
Reply #6
Offline

cib


Buenas tardes WAB:

1. He buscado información y tienes razón, porque en Burmantovo y durante 1959 no había una instalación militar de armas químicas sino un Gulag. Por tanto, pido disculpas al Administrador, a sarapuk, a ti y al foro en general ya que he subido una información de la Wikipedia en español que no es correcta. Yo me he registrado para aprender y contrastar mi opinión, pero si el Administrador opina lo contrario y decide expulsarme, lo entiendo y lo respeto. Bien, según fuentes rusas, el Gulag de Ivdegall se creó en 1937 en la ciudad de Ivdell. El 1 de Enero de 1939 había 20.162 presos y suponía el 1.54% de todos los convictos de la URSS. El 1 de Marzo de 1954 incluía 8 centros principales y 27 secundarios. En dicho área, había 3 sectores: el nº 12 en Vizhay con 2.884 presos, el nº 13 en Burmantovo con 1.012 presos y el ОЛП nº 10 con 938 presos. Además, en el pueblo de Vizhay había 10 campamentos. En consecuencia, los militares que el día 25 de Enero de 1959 se fotografían con la expedición, podrían pertenecer al destacamento de Ivdel creado en 1956 y adscrito a las: tropas internas del Ministerio de Interior de la URSS. Posteriormente: "en 1968 este destacamento pasó a llamarse Brigada 38 de convoyes de Ivdel (unidad militar 6602)". Cabe recordar, que en el diario del día 25, Lyudmila Dubinina escribe refiriéndose a los militares: "El grupo Blinov va más allá del asentamiento 41" y encuentro una simple anécdota histórica, porque la expedición no solo pasó la noche del 26 en dicho asentamiento que en 1951 contaba con un gulag en la margen derecha del rio Lozva y que se llamaba campamento 53 formado por 264 presos, también el día 27 la expedición pasó muy cerca de otro gulag llamado en 1951 campamento 41 formado por 257 presos. (imagen 1).

Atención, no estoy realizando ninguna vinculación directa, pero como se lee en la página de Dyatlov Pass: " Aunque es cierto que no hubo escapes en el momento de la tragedia, no significa que nunca haya ocurrido antes. La historia conoce muchos ejemplos, luego los prisioneros escapaban y se escondían durante años e incluso décadas a la vez. Podrían haberse perdido fácilmente tras la muerte de Stalin en 1953 y la posterior amnistía de los presos políticos. Los jóvenes turistas podrían ser tomados por testigos no deseados y posteriormente asesinados. Si se tiene en cuenta que muchos de los presos políticos llegaron directamente desde los frentes de la Segunda Guerra Mundial, es plausible que estas personas supieran cómo matar y que estuvieran abiertos a la idea." Sé que Alexander Kurennoi, representante oficial de la Fiscalia General de Rusia, descarta por completo la teoría criminal, pero yo tengo derecho como lector a buscar información sobre qué otras personas podrían estar en el lugar de la tragedia y además de prisioneros fugitivos, también la expedición podría haberse encontrado casualmente con buscadores de Oro tanto de minas como de lechos fluviales. Según fuentes rusas: "En la URSS, a nadie le importaba cómo un individuo había obtenido el oro que vendía al Estado, lo que fomentaba el robo y otras actividades criminales. Se robaron kilogramos de oro de empresas mineras auríferas, a pesar de que el delito era punible con la pena de muerte. Al final, en 1954, una ley prohibió a los particulares la extracción de oro. La prohibición se mantuvo en vigor durante más de 60 años, con una breve interrupción entre 1992 y 1998.". Cabe recordar que: "En 2014, la región de Sverdlovsk produjo 8,5 toneladas de oro, alcanzando el 9º lugar entre las entidades mineras de oro. El oro de los Urales del Norte se convirtió en el líder de la región en la producción de metales preciosos, representando el 57 por ciento del oro de la producción total."
 
Fuentes:
- https://postimg.cc/3WYbbqdX
- http://old.memo.ru/history/NKVD/GULAG/r3/r3-106.htm
- http://hibinafiles.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=473
- https://ok.ru/group3batalonlv/topic/66006700114097
- Imagen 1: https://postimg.cc/crMTSmQY
- https://dyatlovpass.com/theories#criminals
- https://www.alamy.es/vivienda-de-un-buscador-de-oro-en-la-taiga-montes-urales-imperio-ruso-foto-antigua-de-un-catalogo-de-postal-image66201706.html
- http://www.archivohistoricominero.org/portfolio_page/minera-del-oro-cerca-de-la-mina-berezovskii-en-la-regin-de-los-urales-imperio-ruso-ao-1910/
- https://es.rbth.com/estilo-de-vida/81344-extraer-oro-rusia
- https://zolotodb.ru/article/11271

2. Respecto al tema de lanzamientos de misiles, por vez te enlazo la pág. web de Kapustin Yar en la que consta que el 2-2-1959 se lanzó un R5-M. He buscado más información y según el experto Evgeny Buyanov, no es probable por varias cuestiones que dicho misil hubiera caído en los Montes Urales. Tú escribes que has estudiado el tema y que has sido profesor de aviación en la Universidad y en la Fuerza Aérea. Perfecto y te lo pregunto por 2ª vez, ¿Me puedes aportar documentación oficial sobre cual fue la trayectoria de dicho misil?. Gracias.

Fuentes:
- http://www.astronautix.com/k/kapustinyar.html
- http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_display1.php?article_id=6257


3. En 2017 un bloguero ruso de ámbito conspirativo afirmó con rotundidad que había descubierto un impacto de misil. Yo en 2019 y como simple lector español, también encuentro peculiar esa mancha a menos de 1.500 m del paso Dyatlov, pero pienso por 3ª vez que puede ser: 1. una formación natural y 2. un posible cráter de origen: militar, meteoroide o de rayo. Tú has escrito que no observas ningún cráter porque conoces bien el lugar y sus cercanías, ¿me puedes mostrar fotos?. Si no dispones de ellas, tampoco es de vital importancia, porque supongo que el equipo multidisciplinar que va a investigar el área en Marzo, contará con Geólogos y por tanto, habrá que esperar a que emitan su informe técnico. Cabe recordar, respecto a los meteoroides que en los Montes Urales y en 2013 se registró uno que no impactó directamente en tierra, pero se fragmentó en el aire y causó las mayores ondas infrasónicas registradas hasta la fecha por el sistema de vigilancia nuclear. Según la CTBTO: "La explosión fue detectada por 17 estaciones de infrasonido de la red" y el científico de la organización Pierrick Mialle, afirmó: "Sabíamos que no es una explosión fija porque podemos ver el cambio de dirección cuando el meteorito se dirige a la Tierra. No hay una única explosión, está ardiendo, viajando más rápido que el sonido"

Fuentes:
- Imagen: https://postimg.cc/5XmDpRPP
- http://www.opinion.com.bo/opinion/articulos/2013/0218/noticias.php?id=86617

4. Como sabes, en 1960 fue derribado un U2 de USA en el öblast de Sverdlovsk por un misil antiaéreo S-75. ¿Tienes información de sus emplazamientos en dicho Oblast durante 1959?. Según fuentes rusas, la versión en esta fecha del S-75 es Desna.

Fuentes:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident
-  http://pvo.guns.ru/s75/s75.htm
- https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina

5. ¿Dispones de datos sobre sismos registrados en 1959 por la estación sísmica de Ekaterimburgo?. Sería interesante para descartar un posible impacto de origen indeterminado cerca del paso Dyatlov ya que "En 1958, se instaló el sismómetro CKM-3Z con un aumento de 25.000, que aún funciona hoy. Con la instalación de CKM-3Z, el número de terremotos registrados aumentó dramáticamente, de 1,300 a 1,500 a 4,000, y en algunos años incluso a 5,000 por año. Las explosiones industriales y los terremotos locales, así como las explosiones de rocas que se producen en las minas de la cuenca de carbón de Kizelovsky, comenzaron a registrarse claramente."

Fuente:
- http://magazines.russ.ru/ural/2001/2/silina.html


Saludos y disculpa la extensión del post.








 

February 27, 2019, 10:08:12 AM
Reply #7
Offline

cib


Oops, I'm sorry, I thought that the forum automatically translated you.
 

February 27, 2019, 11:56:42 AM
Reply #8
Offline

cib


Good afternoon WAB:

1. I have searched for information and you are right, because in Burmantovo and during 1959 there was not a military chemical weapons installation but a Gulag. Therefore, I apologize to the Administrator, to sarapuk, to you and to the forum in general since I have uploaded information from the Wikipedia in Spanish that is not correct. I have registered to learn and contrast my opinion, but if the Administrator thinks otherwise and decides to expel me, I understand and respect it. Well, according to Russian sources, the Gulag of Ivdegall was created in 1937 in the city of Ivdell. On January 1, 1939 there were 20,162 prisoners and it was 1.54% of all convicts of the USSR. On March 1, 1954, it included 8 main centers and 27 secondary centers. In this area, there were 3 sectors: No. 12 in Vizhay with 2,884 inmates, No. 13 in Burmantovo with 1,012 inmates and OLP No. 10 with 938 inmates. In addition, in the town of Vizhay there were 10 camps. As a result, the military that on January 25, 1959 were photographed with the expedition, could belong to the detachment of Ivdel created in 1956 and assigned to the: internal troops of the Ministry of the Interior of the USSR. Subsequently: "in 1968 this detachment was renamed Brigade 38 of convoys of Ivdel (military unit 6602)". It should be recalled that in the diary of the 25th, Lyudmila Dubinina writes referring to the military: "The Blinov group goes beyond settlement 41" and I find a simple historical anecdote, because the expedition not only spent the night of the 26th in said settlement that in 1951 he had a gulag on the right bank of the river Lozva and that it was called camp 53 made up of 264 prisoners, also on the 27th the expedition passed very close to another gulag called in 1951 camp 41 formed by 257 prisoners. (image 1).

Attention, I am not making any direct link, but as you read on the page of Dyatlov Pass: "Although it is true that there were no escapes at the time of the tragedy, it does not mean that it has never happened before." History knows many examples, then prisoners escaped and hid for years and even decades at the same time, they could easily have been lost after the death of Stalin in 1953 and the subsequent amnesty of political prisoners.The young tourists could be mistaken for unwanted witnesses and subsequently murdered. it is taken into account that many of the political prisoners came directly from the fronts of the Second World War, it is plausible that these people knew how to kill and that they were open to the idea. " I know that Alexander Kurennoi, official representative of the General Prosecutor's Office of Russia, completely discards the criminal theory, but I have the right as a reader to seek information on what other people could be in the place of the tragedy and in addition to fugitive prisoners, also the The expedition could have coincidentally found Gold prospectors both from mines and river beds. According to Russian sources: "In the USSR, no one cared how an individual had obtained the gold that he sold to the State, which encouraged robbery and other criminal activities.Kinds of gold were mined from gold mining companies, even though the The crime was punishable by the death penalty.In the end, in 1954, a law prohibited private individuals from extracting gold.The prohibition remained in force for more than 60 years, with a brief interruption between 1992 and 1998. " It is worth remembering that: "In 2014, the Sverdlovsk region produced 8.5 tons of gold, reaching 9th among gold mining entities, and gold from the Northern Urals became the region's leader in the production of gold. precious metals, accounting for 57 percent of the gold in total production. "
 
Sources:
- https://postimg.cc/3WYbbqdX
- http://old.memo.ru/history/NKVD/GULAG/r3/r3-106.htm
- http://hibinafiles.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=473
- https://ok.ru/group3batalonlv/topic/66006700114097
- Image 1: https://postimg.cc/crMTSmQY
- https://dyatlovpass.com/theories#criminals
- https://www.alamy.es/vivienda-de-un-buscador-de-oro-en-la-taiga-montes-urales-imperio-ruso-foto-antigua-de-un-catalogo-de-postal%20-image66201706.html
- http://www.archivohistoricominero.org/portfolio_page/minera-del-oro-cerca-de-la-mina-berezovskii-en-la-regin-de-los-urales-imperio-ruso-ao-1910/
- https://es.rbth.com/estilo-de-vida/81344-extraer-oro-rusia
- https://zolotodb.ru/article/11271

2. Regarding the issue of missile launches, by  2nd once I link you to p. web of Kapustin Yar in which it appears that on 2-2-1959 an R5-M was launched. I have looked for more information and according to the expert Evgeny Buyanov , it is not probable for several questions that said missile would have fallen in the Ural Mountains. You write that you have studied the subject and that you have been aviation professor in the University and in the Air Force. Perfect and I ask you for  2nd time , ¿Can you provide me with official documentation about the trajectory of that missile? Thank you.

Sources:
- [/ b] http://www.astronautix.com/k/kapustinyar.html
- [/ b] http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_display1.php?article_id=6257


3.  In 2017 a Russian blogger with a conspiratorial ambition stated categorically that he had discovered a missile impact. I in 2019 and as a simple Spanish reader, I also find that stain peculiar to less than 1,500 m from the Dyatlov step, but I think from  3rd timethat it can be:  1.  a formation natural and 2.  a possible crater of origin: military, meteoroid or lightning. You have written that you do not see any crater because you know the place well and its surroundings, ¿can you show me pictures? If you do not have them, it is not of vital importance, because I suppose that the multidisciplinary team that will investigate the area in March, will have Geologists and therefore, we will have to wait for them to issue their technical report. It should be recalled, with respect to meteoroids, that in the Ural Mountains and in 2013 one was recorded that did not directly impact the ground, but it was fragmented in the air and caused the largest infrasound waves registered to date by the nuclear surveillance system. According to the CTBTO: "The explosion was detected by 17 infrasound stations of the network" and the scientist of the organization Pierrick Mialle, said: "We knew that it is not a fixed explosion because we can see the change of direction when the meteorite goes to the Earth, there is not a single explosion, it is burning, traveling faster than the sound "

Sources:
- Image: https://postimg.cc/5XmDpRPP
- http://www.opinion.com.bo/opinion/articulos/2013/0218/noticias.php?id=86617

4. As you know, in 1960 a US U2 was shot down in the öblast of Sverdlovsk by an anti-aircraft missile S-75. ¿Do you have information about your sites in said Oblast during 1959 ?. According to Russian sources, the version on this date of the S-75 is Desna.

Sources:
- [/ b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident
- [/ b] http://pvo.guns.ru/s75/s75.htm
- [/ b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina
 

5. Do you have data on earthquakes recorded in 1959 by the Ekaterinburg earthquake station? It would be interesting to rule out a possible impact of indeterminate origin near the Dyatlov pass since "In 1958, the CKM-3Z seismometer was installed with an increase of 25,000, which still works today." With the installation of CKM-3Z, the The number of registered earthquakes increased dramatically, from 1,300 to 1,500 to 4,000, and in some years even to 5,000 per year.The industrial explosions and local earthquakes, as well as the rock blasts that occur in the mines of the coal basin of Kizelovsky, they started to register clearly. "

Source:
- [/ b] http://magazines.russ.ru/ural/2001/2/silina.html


Greetings and excuse the extension of the post. The 3,4 and 5 paragraph I have not wanted to put it whole in bold, but I think it is understood. Thank you.





 

February 27, 2019, 01:45:23 PM
Reply #9
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Good afternoon WAB:

1. I have searched for information and you are right, because in Burmantovo and during 1959 there was not a military chemical weapons installation but a Gulag. Therefore, I apologize to the Administrator, to sarapuk, to you and to the forum in general since I have uploaded information from the Wikipedia in Spanish that is not correct. I have registered to learn and contrast my opinion, but if the Administrator thinks otherwise and decides to expel me, I understand and respect it. Well, according to Russian sources, the Gulag of Ivdegall was created in 1937 in the city of Ivdell. On January 1, 1939 there were 20,162 prisoners and it was 1.54% of all convicts of the USSR. On March 1, 1954, it included 8 main centers and 27 secondary centers. In this area, there were 3 sectors: No. 12 in Vizhay with 2,884 inmates, No. 13 in Burmantovo with 1,012 inmates and OLP No. 10 with 938 inmates. In addition, in the town of Vizhay there were 10 camps. As a result, the military that on January 25, 1959 were photographed with the expedition, could belong to the detachment of Ivdel created in 1956 and assigned to the: internal troops of the Ministry of the Interior of the USSR. Subsequently: "in 1968 this detachment was renamed Brigade 38 of convoys of Ivdel (military unit 6602)". It should be recalled that in the diary of the 25th, Lyudmila Dubinina writes referring to the military: "The Blinov group goes beyond settlement 41" and I find a simple historical anecdote, because the expedition not only spent the night of the 26th in said settlement that in 1951 he had a gulag on the right bank of the river Lozva and that it was called camp 53 made up of 264 prisoners, also on the 27th the expedition passed very close to another gulag called in 1951 camp 41 formed by 257 prisoners. (image 1).

Attention, I am not making any direct link, but as you read on the page of Dyatlov Pass: "Although it is true that there were no escapes at the time of the tragedy, it does not mean that it has never happened before." History knows many examples, then prisoners escaped and hid for years and even decades at the same time, they could easily have been lost after the death of Stalin in 1953 and the subsequent amnesty of political prisoners.The young tourists could be mistaken for unwanted witnesses and subsequently murdered. it is taken into account that many of the political prisoners came directly from the fronts of the Second World War, it is plausible that these people knew how to kill and that they were open to the idea. " I know that Alexander Kurennoi, official representative of the General Prosecutor's Office of Russia, completely discards the criminal theory, but I have the right as a reader to seek information on what other people could be in the place of the tragedy and in addition to fugitive prisoners, also the The expedition could have coincidentally found Gold prospectors both from mines and river beds. According to Russian sources: "In the USSR, no one cared how an individual had obtained the gold that he sold to the State, which encouraged robbery and other criminal activities.Kinds of gold were mined from gold mining companies, even though the The crime was punishable by the death penalty.In the end, in 1954, a law prohibited private individuals from extracting gold.The prohibition remained in force for more than 60 years, with a brief interruption between 1992 and 1998. " It is worth remembering that: "In 2014, the Sverdlovsk region produced 8.5 tons of gold, reaching 9th among gold mining entities, and gold from the Northern Urals became the region's leader in the production of gold. precious metals, accounting for 57 percent of the gold in total production. "
 
Sources:
- https://postimg.cc/3WYbbqdX
- http://old.memo.ru/history/NKVD/GULAG/r3/r3-106.htm
- http://hibinafiles.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=473
- https://ok.ru/group3batalonlv/topic/66006700114097
- Image 1: https://postimg.cc/crMTSmQY
- https://dyatlovpass.com/theories#criminals
- https://www.alamy.es/vivienda-de-un-buscador-de-oro-en-la-taiga-montes-urales-imperio-ruso-foto-antigua-de-un-catalogo-de-postal%20-image66201706.html
- http://www.archivohistoricominero.org/portfolio_page/minera-del-oro-cerca-de-la-mina-berezovskii-en-la-regin-de-los-urales-imperio-ruso-ao-1910/
- https://es.rbth.com/estilo-de-vida/81344-extraer-oro-rusia
- https://zolotodb.ru/article/11271

2. Regarding the issue of missile launches, by  2nd once I link you to p. web of Kapustin Yar in which it appears that on 2-2-1959 an R5-M was launched. I have looked for more information and according to the expert Evgeny Buyanov , it is not probable for several questions that said missile would have fallen in the Ural Mountains. You write that you have studied the subject and that you have been aviation professor in the University and in the Air Force. Perfect and I ask you for  2nd time , ¿Can you provide me with official documentation about the trajectory of that missile? Thank you.

Sources:
- [/ b] http://www.astronautix.com/k/kapustinyar.html
- [/ b] http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_display1.php?article_id=6257


3.  In 2017 a Russian blogger with a conspiratorial ambition stated categorically that he had discovered a missile impact. I in 2019 and as a simple Spanish reader, I also find that stain peculiar to less than 1,500 m from the Dyatlov step, but I think from  3rd timethat it can be:  1.  a formation natural and 2.  a possible crater of origin: military, meteoroid or lightning. You have written that you do not see any crater because you know the place well and its surroundings, ¿can you show me pictures? If you do not have them, it is not of vital importance, because I suppose that the multidisciplinary team that will investigate the area in March, will have Geologists and therefore, we will have to wait for them to issue their technical report. It should be recalled, with respect to meteoroids, that in the Ural Mountains and in 2013 one was recorded that did not directly impact the ground, but it was fragmented in the air and caused the largest infrasound waves registered to date by the nuclear surveillance system. According to the CTBTO: "The explosion was detected by 17 infrasound stations of the network" and the scientist of the organization Pierrick Mialle, said: "We knew that it is not a fixed explosion because we can see the change of direction when the meteorite goes to the Earth, there is not a single explosion, it is burning, traveling faster than the sound "

Sources:
- Image: https://postimg.cc/5XmDpRPP
- http://www.opinion.com.bo/opinion/articulos/2013/0218/noticias.php?id=86617

4. As you know, in 1960 a US U2 was shot down in the öblast of Sverdlovsk by an anti-aircraft missile S-75. ¿Do you have information about your sites in said Oblast during 1959 ?. According to Russian sources, the version on this date of the S-75 is Desna.

Sources:
- [/ b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident
- [/ b] http://pvo.guns.ru/s75/s75.htm
- [/ b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina
 

5. Do you have data on earthquakes recorded in 1959 by the Ekaterinburg earthquake station? It would be interesting to rule out a possible impact of indeterminate origin near the Dyatlov pass since "In 1958, the CKM-3Z seismometer was installed with an increase of 25,000, which still works today." With the installation of CKM-3Z, the The number of registered earthquakes increased dramatically, from 1,300 to 1,500 to 4,000, and in some years even to 5,000 per year.The industrial explosions and local earthquakes, as well as the rock blasts that occur in the mines of the coal basin of Kizelovsky, they started to register clearly. "

Source:
- [/ b] http://magazines.russ.ru/ural/2001/2/silina.html


Greetings and excuse the extension of the post. The 3,4 and 5 paragraph I have not wanted to put it whole in bold, but I think it is understood. Thank you.





Thank you for the apology. But who knows, maybe there was some kind of Military Establishment there  !  ?  Certainly BURMANTOVO had MANGANESE workings. In fact the URALS were one of the most important parts of the USSR for MINERALS and MILITARY.  And not just GOLD. Platinum, Emerald, Ruby, Topaz, Alexandrite, Jasper, Malachite and many others. And Coal; Oil; Natural Gas; Iron Ore; Manganese Ore; Chromium Ore; Copper Ore; Aluminum Ore; Table Salt; Potassium Salt and so on.  A veritable TREASURE TROVE.  But the area where the Dyatlov Group met their demise did not have any such TREASURE to lure Treasure Hunters. And nor did the area have any Prisons, from which Prisoners may have escaped and set about the Dyatlov Group.
DB
 

February 27, 2019, 03:02:06 PM
Reply #10
Offline

cib


Thanks for the explanation, sarapuk. It is obvious that I am making assumptions based on a plane with the Gulag of Ivdegall in 1951 and I have compared it with the route the expedition made in 1958. I do not know if in that year, the facilities were operational. In addition, I have taken the source of Dyatlov Pass in which it says that there were no leaks in those months, but it is not ruled out that there were ex-convicts in the area for months, years and even decades. Regarding the interest in gold, I have also relied on the information that in 1954 extraction was prohibited by private individuals and since near the Dyatlov pass, there is a stream, perhaps there would have been illegal activity that would be a reason for violence by part of the search engines towards the expedition. But I insist, I'm just making a conjecture to try to understand what really happened.

Sources:
- https://postimg.cc/3WYbbqdX
- https://postimg.cc/crMTSmQY
- https://es.rbth.com/estilo-de-vida/81344-extraer-oro-rusia

Greetings.