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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Combining the ball lightning and nuclear weapon theories.  (Read 7772 times)

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March 11, 2019, 04:30:41 PM
Reply #30
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Bingo?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina"Wide-scale deployment started in 1957, with various upgrades following over the next few years.""The V-750 is a two-stage missile consisting of a solid-fuel booster and a storable liquid-fuel upper stage, which burns red fuming nitric acid as the oxidizer and kerosene as the fuel.""One version, the SA-2E, mounted a 295 kg (650 lb) nuclear warhead of an estimated 15 kiloton yield or a conventional warhead of similar weight."

Ok so where are you going with this?

Regards
Star man
Good question :)
The natural source theory (potassium) for the tests on the ravine 4 has to be an outlier. But if the radiation is man made then the water test shows that the most probable scenario is (very) high levels at the time of the DPI event. So there is no moderate artificial contamination scenario, it's either natural (unlikely) or high levels that are very difficult to explain as occupational.
and there's good evidence of electro magnetic phenomena, no2/nitric acid exposure and the snow being unusually warm.

and the Soviets had SAM missiles that could have been fitted with low yield nuclear warheads as well as conventional.

So the narrative could be that in the cold war paranoia of the period they saw a massive object on radar hovering over the Urals and sent one of more SAM's in. Maybe they'd been reading comics about alien invasion...

Maybe the first SAM had a conventional warhead and when that didn't work they escalated.
If the missiles exploded in front of the western side of the ridge it would shelter the tent and the forest from the blast. But the wind would carry radioactive dust / NO2 or nitric acid over the tent area.
So it's a narrative that connects a lot of seemingly unconnected pieces of evidence which i like. It's still difficult to explain the rav4 deaths without damage to the trees. Maybe that was ball lightning...  kewl1
Then they told Ivanov to cease investigating and closed the case when they had all the bodies closing the area for several years.

I see.  You are combining the two theories.  In my low yield nuke theory I havent really considered the reason why a nuke would be detonated there.  Just suggested it could be a test.  But from the research you have done it seems that the technology was already there.  A test does seem A strange reason.  Some kind of foul up or mistake would be more likely for the nuke theory.  A misleading radar signature.  Possibly.  Maybe thought it was an attack?  There are reports of near misses where radar signals were mistakenly interpreted as an attack by the west and they came close to a launch.  Scary really.

The injuries could be explained by falls as result of the NO2 affecting the groups cognitive abilities.

I'm creating narratives that fit the facts. Ryan has pointed out that the rad tests have no easy explanation. Wrt the ravine four i do think they died under the snow between 2 and 3 metres deep and found within an arms length of the den. The ball lightning theory isn't dead yet... kewl1

The ball lightning theory isn't going to die and neither will any of the others until there is further hard evidence.  Like I said I would still only give the nuke theory 5:1 odds.
 

March 13, 2019, 02:10:41 PM
Reply #31
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Bingo?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina"Wide-scale deployment started in 1957, with various upgrades following over the next few years.""The V-750 is a two-stage missile consisting of a solid-fuel booster and a storable liquid-fuel upper stage, which burns red fuming nitric acid as the oxidizer and kerosene as the fuel.""One version, the SA-2E, mounted a 295 kg (650 lb) nuclear warhead of an estimated 15 kiloton yield or a conventional warhead of similar weight."

Ok so where are you going with this?

Regards
Star man
Good question :)
The natural source theory (potassium) for the tests on the ravine 4 has to be an outlier. But if the radiation is man made then the water test shows that the most probable scenario is (very) high levels at the time of the DPI event. So there is no moderate artificial contamination scenario, it's either natural (unlikely) or high levels that are very difficult to explain as occupational.
and there's good evidence of electro magnetic phenomena, no2/nitric acid exposure and the snow being unusually warm.

and the Soviets had SAM missiles that could have been fitted with low yield nuclear warheads as well as conventional.

So the narrative could be that in the cold war paranoia of the period they saw a massive object on radar hovering over the Urals and sent one of more SAM's in. Maybe they'd been reading comics about alien invasion...

Maybe the first SAM had a conventional warhead and when that didn't work they escalated.
If the missiles exploded in front of the western side of the ridge it would shelter the tent and the forest from the blast. But the wind would carry radioactive dust / NO2 or nitric acid over the tent area.
So it's a narrative that connects a lot of seemingly unconnected pieces of evidence which i like. It's still difficult to explain the rav4 deaths without damage to the trees. Maybe that was ball lightning...  kewl1
Then they told Ivanov to cease investigating and closed the case when they had all the bodies closing the area for several years.

I see.  You are combining the two theories.  In my low yield nuke theory I havent really considered the reason why a nuke would be detonated there.  Just suggested it could be a test.  But from the research you have done it seems that the technology was already there.  A test does seem A strange reason.  Some kind of foul up or mistake would be more likely for the nuke theory.  A misleading radar signature.  Possibly.  Maybe thought it was an attack?  There are reports of near misses where radar signals were mistakenly interpreted as an attack by the west and they came close to a launch.  Scary really.

The injuries could be explained by falls as result of the NO2 affecting the groups cognitive abilities.

But this is the Soviets own territory. And its also a very remote part of Russia with no Military bases etc, in the area. So I dont think it would be any kind of false alarm. And the extraordinary Injuries to Dubinina in particular could not have been caused by a fall at the Ravine.
DB
 

March 13, 2019, 02:16:09 PM
Reply #32
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Bizarre or what.  Are you now suggesting that the Soviets fired Nuclear Weapons at ALIENS. Or should I say that without any real means of deciding if they were friend or foe the Soviets just LOBBED NUKES at them.
I grew up in the Cold War (in the UK). If attacked there would just be 4 minutes.

Well you are not the only one who came through those times.  I think it was longer than 4 minutes though. Even with the Soviet Submarines off the coast of Britain it would have take longer than 4 minutes for any Missiles to reach us. 
DB
 

March 13, 2019, 02:26:34 PM
Reply #33
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Bingo?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina"Wide-scale deployment started in 1957, with various upgrades following over the next few years.""The V-750 is a two-stage missile consisting of a solid-fuel booster and a storable liquid-fuel upper stage, which burns red fuming nitric acid as the oxidizer and kerosene as the fuel.""One version, the SA-2E, mounted a 295 kg (650 lb) nuclear warhead of an estimated 15 kiloton yield or a conventional warhead of similar weight."

Ok so where are you going with this?

Regards
Star man
Good question :)
The natural source theory (potassium) for the tests on the ravine 4 has to be an outlier. But if the radiation is man made then the water test shows that the most probable scenario is (very) high levels at the time of the DPI event. So there is no moderate artificial contamination scenario, it's either natural (unlikely) or high levels that are very difficult to explain as occupational.
and there's good evidence of electro magnetic phenomena, no2/nitric acid exposure and the snow being unusually warm.

and the Soviets had SAM missiles that could have been fitted with low yield nuclear warheads as well as conventional.

So the narrative could be that in the cold war paranoia of the period they saw a massive object on radar hovering over the Urals and sent one of more SAM's in. Maybe they'd been reading comics about alien invasion...

Maybe the first SAM had a conventional warhead and when that didn't work they escalated.
If the missiles exploded in front of the western side of the ridge it would shelter the tent and the forest from the blast. But the wind would carry radioactive dust / NO2 or nitric acid over the tent area.
So it's a narrative that connects a lot of seemingly unconnected pieces of evidence which i like. It's still difficult to explain the rav4 deaths without damage to the trees. Maybe that was ball lightning...  kewl1
Then they told Ivanov to cease investigating and closed the case when they had all the bodies closing the area for several years.

I see.  You are combining the two theories.  In my low yield nuke theory I havent really considered the reason why a nuke would be detonated there.  Just suggested it could be a test.  But from the research you have done it seems that the technology was already there.  A test does seem A strange reason.  Some kind of foul up or mistake would be more likely for the nuke theory.  A misleading radar signature.  Possibly.  Maybe thought it was an attack?  There are reports of near misses where radar signals were mistakenly interpreted as an attack by the west and they came close to a launch.  Scary really.

The injuries could be explained by falls as result of the NO2 affecting the groups cognitive abilities.

I'm creating narratives that fit the facts. Ryan has pointed out that the rad tests have no easy explanation. Wrt the ravine four i do think they died under the snow between 2 and 3 metres deep and found within an arms length of the den. The ball lightning theory isn't dead yet... kewl1

Well Investigators have to explore all avenues. All the Theories have to be considered. It may well be that there are several Theories involved in this Dyatlov Mystery. Several Events and not just one Event that caused the Groups demise. Maybe Ball Lightning was a factor or was present at the time of the Event  or Events. Hopefully more light will be shed on the situation after the new Investigation.
DB
 

March 13, 2019, 04:51:46 PM
Reply #34
Offline

Nigel Evans



Bizarre or what.  Are you now suggesting that the Soviets fired Nuclear Weapons at ALIENS. Or should I say that without any real means of deciding if they were friend or foe the Soviets just LOBBED NUKES at them.
I grew up in the Cold War (in the UK). If attacked there would just be 4 minutes.

Well you are not the only one who came through those times.  I think it was longer than 4 minutes though. Even with the Soviet Submarines off the coast of Britain it would have take longer than 4 minutes for any Missiles to reach us.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_warning
 

March 13, 2019, 05:08:42 PM
Reply #35
Offline

Nigel Evans



Could be relevant to this theory, this piece from the book :-



Deev posted his private correspondence with someone under the nickname "Lorelei". Lorelei claimed she heard this story from a man who was in a field expedition near Otorten in 1959:  In 1959, he participated in a geological prospecting expedition. ... In mid-January they were sent to the Lozva Valley. Their base camp was located five kilometers to the east of the foot of Mt. Otorten. ... About February 4-5, three of them reached the foot of Mt. Kholat-Syahl. Near the tree line they saw people lying on the snow. They came closer. Five dead bodies lay side by side, exactly five. Without outerwear. What struck them was the color of the corpses' skin. ... It was orange tone with a copper tint. There were many footprints around. Having returned to the base camp, they decided to send a radiogram. They got a reply that the authorities had been informed and the proper measures taken. They were instructed to stay away. The geologists did not follow the advice. They returned. And there were people waiting for them. Right at the edge of the forest. Some tough guys. The geologists were escorted back to the base and questioned. ... Everybody from the expedition had to sign a non-disclosure agreement.  ... When they came to the place a second time ... they noticed one thing in the distance - four people on the slope were holding a sort of stretcher, only larger, while two others were shoveling snow onto it, and from the bottom the snow poured as through a sieve. This construction was slowly moving along the slope towards the forest.107
Lobatcheva, Irina. Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret (pp. 133-134). Parallel Worlds' Books. Kindle Edition.
 

March 14, 2019, 05:18:15 AM
Reply #36
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Could be relevant to this theory, this piece from the book :-



Deev posted his private correspondence with someone under the nickname "Lorelei". Lorelei claimed she heard this story from a man who was in a field expedition near Otorten in 1959:  In 1959, he participated in a geological prospecting expedition. ... In mid-January they were sent to the Lozva Valley. Their base camp was located five kilometers to the east of the foot of Mt. Otorten. ... About February 4-5, three of them reached the foot of Mt. Kholat-Syahl. Near the tree line they saw people lying on the snow. They came closer. Five dead bodies lay side by side, exactly five. Without outerwear. What struck them was the color of the corpses' skin. ... It was orange tone with a copper tint. There were many footprints around. Having returned to the base camp, they decided to send a radiogram. They got a reply that the authorities had been informed and the proper measures taken. They were instructed to stay away. The geologists did not follow the advice. They returned. And there were people waiting for them. Right at the edge of the forest. Some tough guys. The geologists were escorted back to the base and questioned. ... Everybody from the expedition had to sign a non-disclosure agreement.  ... When they came to the place a second time ... they noticed one thing in the distance - four people on the slope were holding a sort of stretcher, only larger, while two others were shoveling snow onto it, and from the bottom the snow poured as through a sieve. This construction was slowly moving along the slope towards the forest.107
Lobatcheva, Irina. Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret (pp. 133-134). Parallel Worlds' Books. Kindle Edition.

How credible is this though?  Could just be fabricated for the book?

Also if there was a nuke and they were only several km away they would have seen and heard it .
 

March 14, 2019, 06:12:40 AM
Reply #37
Offline

Nigel Evans



Could be relevant to this theory, this piece from the book :-



Deev posted his private correspondence with someone under the nickname "Lorelei". Lorelei claimed she heard this story from a man who was in a field expedition near Otorten in 1959:  In 1959, he participated in a geological prospecting expedition. ... In mid-January they were sent to the Lozva Valley. Their base camp was located five kilometers to the east of the foot of Mt. Otorten. ... About February 4-5, three of them reached the foot of Mt. Kholat-Syahl. Near the tree line they saw people lying on the snow. They came closer. Five dead bodies lay side by side, exactly five. Without outerwear. What struck them was the color of the corpses' skin. ... It was orange tone with a copper tint. There were many footprints around. Having returned to the base camp, they decided to send a radiogram. They got a reply that the authorities had been informed and the proper measures taken. They were instructed to stay away. The geologists did not follow the advice. They returned. And there were people waiting for them. Right at the edge of the forest. Some tough guys. The geologists were escorted back to the base and questioned. ... Everybody from the expedition had to sign a non-disclosure agreement.  ... When they came to the place a second time ... they noticed one thing in the distance - four people on the slope were holding a sort of stretcher, only larger, while two others were shoveling snow onto it, and from the bottom the snow poured as through a sieve. This construction was slowly moving along the slope towards the forest.107
Lobatcheva, Irina. Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret (pp. 133-134). Parallel Worlds' Books. Kindle Edition.

How credible is this though?  Could just be fabricated for the book?

Also if there was a nuke and they were only several km away they would have seen and heard it .
Yes could be nonsense. The book discounts it. It's an anonymous source from someone posting on the internet. But there is the fact that one of the documents pertaining to the DPI was dated 6th Feb (from memory). This is commonly explained as a typo. Another fact is that some bodies could have been turned after death.
Witnesses saw a flash walking home from the cinema.
 

March 14, 2019, 03:00:28 PM
Reply #38
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Bizarre or what.  Are you now suggesting that the Soviets fired Nuclear Weapons at ALIENS. Or should I say that without any real means of deciding if they were friend or foe the Soviets just LOBBED NUKES at them.
I grew up in the Cold War (in the UK). If attacked there would just be 4 minutes.

Well you are not the only one who came through those times.  I think it was longer than 4 minutes though. Even with the Soviet Submarines off the coast of Britain it would have take longer than 4 minutes for any Missiles to reach us.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-minute_warning

Apologies. I was thinking in terms of time from launch of a missile to impact.
DB
 


March 19, 2019, 12:41:36 AM
Reply #40
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
 

March 19, 2019, 12:39:33 PM
Reply #41
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
DB
 

March 19, 2019, 04:33:58 PM
Reply #42
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
&combining with actual outer S’PACE objects: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/mar/18/meteor-blast-over-bering-sea-was-10-times-size-of-hiroshima?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Actually a meteor air burst is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Why is a Meteor Air Burst a possibility  !  ?

It's a possible explanation.  A meteor air burst is a high energy event capable of creating a blast that could damaged the tent and caused panic.  It unlikely but it is a possibility.

Regards

Star man
 

March 22, 2019, 12:46:25 PM
Reply #43
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
&combining with actual outer S’PACE objects: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/mar/18/meteor-blast-over-bering-sea-was-10-times-size-of-hiroshima?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Actually a meteor air burst is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Why is a Meteor Air Burst a possibility  !  ?

It's a possible explanation.  A meteor air burst is a high energy event capable of creating a blast that could damaged the tent and caused panic.  It unlikely but it is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Well I would say that the Tent wasnt exactly damaged in the way we could expect from such an explosion  !    Cuts or Rips dont really say damage form a Meteor air burst, do they  ?
DB
 

March 22, 2019, 01:36:09 PM
Reply #44
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
&combining with actual outer S’PACE objects: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/mar/18/meteor-blast-over-bering-sea-was-10-times-size-of-hiroshima?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Actually a meteor air burst is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Why is a Meteor Air Burst a possibility  !  ?

It's a possible explanation.  A meteor air burst is a high energy event capable of creating a blast that could damaged the tent and caused panic.  It unlikely but it is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Well I would say that the Tent wasnt exactly damaged in the way we could expect from such an explosion  !    Cuts or Rips dont really say damage form a Meteor air burst, do they  ?

A blast could have created enough force to damage previous repairs.  Again it's unlikely.

Regards

Star man
 

March 23, 2019, 12:56:01 PM
Reply #45
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
&combining with actual outer S’PACE objects: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/mar/18/meteor-blast-over-bering-sea-was-10-times-size-of-hiroshima?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Actually a meteor air burst is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Why is a Meteor Air Burst a possibility  !  ?

It's a possible explanation.  A meteor air burst is a high energy event capable of creating a blast that could damaged the tent and caused panic.  It unlikely but it is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Well I would say that the Tent wasnt exactly damaged in the way we could expect from such an explosion  !    Cuts or Rips dont really say damage form a Meteor air burst, do they  ?

A blast could have created enough force to damage previous repairs.  Again it's unlikely.

Regards

Star man

Was there specific mention of details re previous repairs to that Tent.
DB
 

March 23, 2019, 06:12:24 PM
Reply #46
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
&combining with actual outer S’PACE objects: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/mar/18/meteor-blast-over-bering-sea-was-10-times-size-of-hiroshima?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Actually a meteor air burst is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Why is a Meteor Air Burst a possibility  !  ?

It's a possible explanation.  A meteor air burst is a high energy event capable of creating a blast that could damaged the tent and caused panic.  It unlikely but it is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Well I would say that the Tent wasnt exactly damaged in the way we could expect from such an explosion  !    Cuts or Rips dont really say damage form a Meteor air burst, do they  ?

A blast could have created enough force to damage previous repairs.  Again it's unlikely.

Regards

Star man

Was there specific mention of details re previous repairs to that Tent.

Yes.  From what I understand they spent a fair bit of time sewing the tent to repair holes/tears.

Regards

Star man
 

March 25, 2019, 02:54:07 PM
Reply #47
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
&combining with actual outer S’PACE objects: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/mar/18/meteor-blast-over-bering-sea-was-10-times-size-of-hiroshima?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Actually a meteor air burst is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Why is a Meteor Air Burst a possibility  !  ?

It's a possible explanation.  A meteor air burst is a high energy event capable of creating a blast that could damaged the tent and caused panic.  It unlikely but it is a possibility.

Regards

Star man

Well I would say that the Tent wasnt exactly damaged in the way we could expect from such an explosion  !    Cuts or Rips dont really say damage form a Meteor air burst, do they  ?

A blast could have created enough force to damage previous repairs.  Again it's unlikely.

Regards

Star man

Was there specific mention of details re previous repairs to that Tent.

Yes.  From what I understand they spent a fair bit of time sewing the tent to repair holes/tears.

Regards

Star man

Yes I have heard that said, but I was wondering if we have any more specific information i e actual descriptions of the parts of the Tent that were supposed to have been repaired ? Important for any of the Theories regarding the tent.
DB
 

March 25, 2019, 09:45:35 PM
Reply #48
Offline

Loose}{Cannon

Global Moderator
I don't think the location or description of known repairs exist in the case files, but there are diary entries stating they indeed made repairs to the tent.
All theories are flawed....... Get Behind Me Satan !!!