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Author Topic: Light  (Read 7573 times)

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March 20, 2019, 09:58:08 AM
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Clacon

Guest
Does anyone know how dark it would have been on the slope at the supposed time they fled the tent? Was just reading a post that mentioned the flashlight found on top of the tent and it got me thinking. There was another one found some metres from the tent correct? Which one was turned on??

I was just thinking if it was dark, how would they have been able to see where they were running (or walking to in a composed manner as the footprints found suggest)?

They must have been able to have seen the treeline to go to it right? So it must have been:
1) light enough to be able to see the treeline;
a) either by natural light OR
b) something that lit up the night sky OR
c) by a flashlight left on halfway down the slope (probably the least likely)

OR they couldn't see where they were going but remembered where the treeline was??

This all hinges on how dark it was because they assumedly would have been able to have seen to get firewood and start a fire down at the cedar.

Also, if they couldn't see, wouldn't it make falling off a ledge into the ravine a more legitimate fit to the injuries of the Ravine 4? This could perhaps be a timeline clue - that it was dark by the time those 4 died.
It would also I suppose support the "den was a plant" theory bc they wouldn't have had time to build it if they had died that way.

 

March 20, 2019, 10:19:23 AM
Reply #1
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Teddy

Administrator
The moon on Feb 1 1959


Going down and in the direction of the wind (so the wind blows in your back) is the only way to go.
The day before they saw what's around, they really don't need light to make the decision, is the only way.

Also why leave a perfectly good flashlight turned off on top of the tent?
But then again, there was no snow on top of the flashlight, so we don't know when was it left or was it moved.

More on flashlights https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search#flashlight
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 10:36:57 AM by Teddy »
 

March 20, 2019, 12:57:17 PM
Reply #2

Clacon

Guest
Thank you Teddy :))

So you think maybe it was bright enough that they could see??
 

March 20, 2019, 01:04:11 PM
Reply #3
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WAB


The moon on Feb 1 1959

This very weak representation about the moon of that day, to be exact at night when there were events. The analytical approach can be more thorough: I will result figures and time of occurrence of the moon, and as prospective condition of weather, and particularly overcast:

On February, 01st, 1959 the sun has sunset lower horizon at 18:04 local time or 6.04 PM in the American standard. Civil twilight (as the sun has fallen to 7 degrees below horizon) have come at 19:04 or 7.04 PM in the American standard.
At the night from 01 for February to 02nd the moon should ascend over horizon at 05.17 AM in the American standard (in our standard this time coincides), to azimuth = 126 degrees (it about the South-East) and had the size of 39 % from full size. Morning twilight 1959 began on February, 02nd at 9.26 AM in the American standard, and the moon was on the ball at 8.14 AM in the American standard 14 degrees over horizon that little more above than corner between kind upwards from cedar and corner of visible crosspiece of mountains in the South and the South-East. It is necessary notice that on settlement weather forecast at this time still there was a low overcast which is well visible on two last pictures when Dyatlov group goes to tent place in the afternoon in February, 01st 1959.
If to show all this situation on map it will look so:



Here inscriptions are write in Russian, but they should be easily understood on figures about which I now spoke. If it will be necessary explain and result conformity of words write please in this forum and then I will give transfer. Now I do not have initial file in CorelDraw! Format and I could correct that at once.

Going down and in the direction of the wind (so the wind blows in your back) is the only way to go.

As the directional marker can be used it, but they hardly could that that to see except dim contours of dark subjects. Besides, his feet is bear downwards under such circumstances.

The day before they saw what's around, they really don't need light to make the decision, is the only way.

In the afternoon when they went to tent place, they too saw no more than could see at night. Especially if there was same fog (and I am very similar to it on the same pictures about which spoke) as at us was on March, 12th 2019 when we left from cedar to pass and aside " Ilyich base ".

Also why leave a perfectly good flashlight turned off on top of the tent?
But then again, there was no snow on top of the flashlight, so we don't know when was it left or was it moved.

It is very logical question. About this small lamp spoke and wrote already more than one month after it saw. And saw it already after Boris Slobtsov and Michael Sharavin examined tent. Some years ago Michael Sharavin in one of our conversations has told that there can be even it they could put it on snow when examined tent on February, 26th 1959. They little that remembering from those events that were on February, 26th, but it quite could be so.

More on flashlights https://dyatlovpass.com/1959-search#flashlight

Here it is not enough and not so in detail. About kinds of small lamps I can show here that:
1.   " Chinese " the round small lamp similar to volume that was at Igor Dyatlov:


2.   "The Square" small lamp which is visible in photos of their travel on clothes at Simeon Zolotaryov:


3.   The Small lamp of "Zhuchek (small beetle)" (generating by hand) about which is record in criminal case:

 Unfortunately my the cover and glass on reflector has not remained.

About places of find and estimation of condition small lamps and elements of electricity I will not have time tell today about it.
 

March 20, 2019, 01:07:37 PM
Reply #4
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Teddy

Administrator
Thank you Teddy :))

So you think maybe it was bright enough that they could see??

I didn't say that. I said that if you stay at the location of the tent there is nowhere else to go.
Going to the right, where they came from, is at least a mile against the wind. They wouldn't have survived it.
Where they went the wind dies down after half a mile, and during this half a mile blows in your back, so it's actually helping you go down. They knew where they were from before it got dark.
The wind blows snow from the mountain at all time. There is limited visibility, the moon doesn't really matter. They went the only possible way.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 02:32:16 PM by Teddy »
 


March 20, 2019, 05:07:16 PM
Reply #6
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I think it's safe to assume that it was dark and probably overcast.  But snow reflects even small amounts of light so there may have been a small amount of visibility?

Regards

Star man
 

March 20, 2019, 05:14:27 PM
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Nigel Evans


If i'm correct about Semyon's photos then there would be illumination.
 

March 21, 2019, 06:46:07 AM
Reply #8

Clacon

Guest
Sorry Nigel - could you give me a link to the discussion about Semyon's pics and illumination? Your take is that they could see bc of the moon and it reflecting off of the snow (as per Star Man)?
 

March 21, 2019, 07:16:07 AM
Reply #9
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Nigel Evans


Sorry Nigel - could you give me a link to the discussion about Semyon's pics and illumination? Your take is that they could see bc of the moon and it reflecting off of the snow (as per Star Man)?
No my theory is that they camped up there on purpose to photograph the light show on the western ridge and Semyon's photos are real (not damage) and of electro magnetism, e.g. plane 2 is illuminating the ground and the snow traveling over it - https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy#zolotaryovcamera
The theory is that when they confiscated all the good photos they left these behind as the images need 30x magnification. The counter argument is that the films are just damaged as Semyons camera was under snow for several months, but the counter argument to that is the Eagle is a perfect fit for the event described by the meteorologist witness - "a light surrounded by a mist". It's all in my thread - http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=308.0 - "The Real Ball Lightning Theory", ignore the other one....
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 02:24:08 AM by Teddy »
 

March 22, 2019, 01:14:52 PM
Reply #10
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Does anyone know how dark it would have been on the slope at the supposed time they fled the tent? Was just reading a post that mentioned the flashlight found on top of the tent and it got me thinking. There was another one found some metres from the tent correct? Which one was turned on??

I was just thinking if it was dark, how would they have been able to see where they were running (or walking to in a composed manner as the footprints found suggest)?

They must have been able to have seen the treeline to go to it right? So it must have been:
1) light enough to be able to see the treeline;
a) either by natural light OR
b) something that lit up the night sky OR
c) by a flashlight left on halfway down the slope (probably the least likely)

OR they couldn't see where they were going but remembered where the treeline was??

This all hinges on how dark it was because they assumedly would have been able to have seen to get firewood and start a fire down at the cedar.

Also, if they couldn't see, wouldn't it make falling off a ledge into the ravine a more legitimate fit to the injuries of the Ravine 4? This could perhaps be a timeline clue - that it was dark by the time those 4 died.
It would also I suppose support the "den was a plant" theory bc they wouldn't have had time to build it if they had died that way.


Dont forget the SNOW factor. Have you ever been out at night with lots of SNOW on the ground  ? Even with no moonlight, its amazing what a difference a layer of SNOW can make to visibility.
DB
 

March 22, 2019, 01:33:39 PM
Reply #11
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Does anyone know how dark it would have been on the slope at the supposed time they fled the tent? Was just reading a post that mentioned the flashlight found on top of the tent and it got me thinking. There was another one found some metres from the tent correct? Which one was turned on??

I was just thinking if it was dark, how would they have been able to see where they were running (or walking to in a composed manner as the footprints found suggest)?

They must have been able to have seen the treeline to go to it right? So it must have been:
1) light enough to be able to see the treeline;
a) either by natural light OR
b) something that lit up the night sky OR
c) by a flashlight left on halfway down the slope (probably the least likely)

OR they couldn't see where they were going but remembered where the treeline was??

This all hinges on how dark it was because they assumedly would have been able to have seen to get firewood and start a fire down at the cedar.

Also, if they couldn't see, wouldn't it make falling off a ledge into the ravine a more legitimate fit to the injuries of the Ravine 4? This could perhaps be a timeline clue - that it was dark by the time those 4 died.
It would also I suppose support the "den was a plant" theory bc they wouldn't have had time to build it if they had died that way.


Dont forget the SNOW factor. Have you ever been out at night with lots of SNOW on the ground  ? Even with no moonlight, its amazing what a difference a layer of SNOW can make to visibility.

There must have been some visibility for them to build a fire, climb trees and make a den/ camp in the ravine.

Regards

Star man
 

March 23, 2019, 12:54:32 PM
Reply #12
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Does anyone know how dark it would have been on the slope at the supposed time they fled the tent? Was just reading a post that mentioned the flashlight found on top of the tent and it got me thinking. There was another one found some metres from the tent correct? Which one was turned on??

I was just thinking if it was dark, how would they have been able to see where they were running (or walking to in a composed manner as the footprints found suggest)?

They must have been able to have seen the treeline to go to it right? So it must have been:
1) light enough to be able to see the treeline;
a) either by natural light OR
b) something that lit up the night sky OR
c) by a flashlight left on halfway down the slope (probably the least likely)

OR they couldn't see where they were going but remembered where the treeline was??

This all hinges on how dark it was because they assumedly would have been able to have seen to get firewood and start a fire down at the cedar.

Also, if they couldn't see, wouldn't it make falling off a ledge into the ravine a more legitimate fit to the injuries of the Ravine 4? This could perhaps be a timeline clue - that it was dark by the time those 4 died.
It would also I suppose support the "den was a plant" theory bc they wouldn't have had time to build it if they had died that way.


Dont forget the SNOW factor. Have you ever been out at night with lots of SNOW on the ground  ? Even with no moonlight, its amazing what a difference a layer of SNOW can make to visibility.

There must have been some visibility for them to build a fire, climb trees and make a den/ camp in the ravine.

Regards

Star man

The Snow would be adequate enough for that. It wouldnt need to be Torches, etc.  And the eyes adjust to the poor light after a short time.
DB
 

March 23, 2019, 06:08:46 PM
Reply #13
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Does anyone know how dark it would have been on the slope at the supposed time they fled the tent? Was just reading a post that mentioned the flashlight found on top of the tent and it got me thinking. There was another one found some metres from the tent correct? Which one was turned on??

I was just thinking if it was dark, how would they have been able to see where they were running (or walking to in a composed manner as the footprints found suggest)?

They must have been able to have seen the treeline to go to it right? So it must have been:
1) light enough to be able to see the treeline;
a) either by natural light OR
b) something that lit up the night sky OR
c) by a flashlight left on halfway down the slope (probably the least likely)

OR they couldn't see where they were going but remembered where the treeline was??

This all hinges on how dark it was because they assumedly would have been able to have seen to get firewood and start a fire down at the cedar.

Also, if they couldn't see, wouldn't it make falling off a ledge into the ravine a more legitimate fit to the injuries of the Ravine 4? This could perhaps be a timeline clue - that it was dark by the time those 4 died.
It would also I suppose support the "den was a plant" theory bc they wouldn't have had time to build it if they had died that way.


Dont forget the SNOW factor. Have you ever been out at night with lots of SNOW on the ground  ? Even with no moonlight, its amazing what a difference a layer of SNOW can make to visibility.

There must have been some visibility for them to build a fire, climb trees and make a den/ camp in the ravine.

Regards

Star man

The Snow would be adequate enough for that. It wouldnt need to be Torches, etc.  And the eyes adjust to the poor light after a short time.

Yeah.  I think they must have some visibility even if it was not great.

Regards

Star man
 

March 25, 2019, 02:01:56 PM
Reply #14

Clacon

Guest
Do you think this has any implications then for the flashlights??
 

March 25, 2019, 03:16:43 PM
Reply #15
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Do you think this has any implications then for the flashlights??

Well the only implication that springs to mind is that they could have got by without any flashlights. Its possible that the SNOW provided enough reflection. But I would have thought it would still have been darker in the woods.
DB
 

March 25, 2019, 03:47:23 PM
Reply #16
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Do you think this has any implications then for the flashlights??

A flashlight was found 400 m down the slope. It was said to have been switched off and batteries spent when found.  So they took the flashlight with them and then discarded it.  To me it's says it was dark, but not impossible to see.

Regards

Star man
 

March 26, 2019, 04:10:43 AM
Reply #17
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Nigel Evans


Do you think this has any implications then for the flashlights??

A flashlight was found 400 m down the slope. It was said to have been switched off and batteries spent when found.  So they took the flashlight with them and then discarded it.  To me it's says it was dark, but not impossible to see.

Regards

Star man
The flashlight was switched on (presumed to be left as a beacon for the return)
Sheet 191
Radiogram
Received by Sysoev
7/3-59
28 people continued to search all day long period No results in 450 meters under the tent found flashlight turned on comma 20 meters from the tent a piece of broken ski period Tomorrow March 8 is declared a day off period I think that the search must be stopped till the end of April period The weather is getting worse period Tomorrow with me fly three Muscovites, it is desirable to take off part of the civilians.
Maslennikov
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-136-198
 

March 26, 2019, 09:49:54 AM
Reply #18
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Do you think this has any implications then for the flashlights??

A flashlight was found 400 m down the slope. It was said to have been switched off and batteries spent when found.  So they took the flashlight with them and then discarded it.  To me it's says it was dark, but not impossible to see.

Regards

Star man
The flashlight was switched on (presumed to be left as a beacon for the return)
Sheet 191
Radiogram
Received by Sysoev
7/3-59
28 people continued to search all day long period No results in 450 meters under the tent found flashlight turned on comma 20 meters from the tent a piece of broken ski period Tomorrow March 8 is declared a day off period I think that the search must be stopped till the end of April period The weather is getting worse period Tomorrow with me fly three Muscovites, it is desirable to take off part of the civilians.
Maslennikov
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-136-198


On the Dyatlov pass.com site, under search, tent, there is highlighted text saying that second flashlight found 400 metres down slope, switched off, battery spent?

Regards
Star man
 

March 26, 2019, 11:18:56 AM
Reply #19
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Nigel Evans


Do you think this has any implications then for the flashlights??

A flashlight was found 400 m down the slope. It was said to have been switched off and batteries spent when found.  So they took the flashlight with them and then discarded it.  To me it's says it was dark, but not impossible to see.

Regards

Star man
The flashlight was switched on (presumed to be left as a beacon for the return)
Sheet 191
Radiogram
Received by Sysoev
7/3-59
28 people continued to search all day long period No results in 450 meters under the tent found flashlight turned on comma 20 meters from the tent a piece of broken ski period Tomorrow March 8 is declared a day off period I think that the search must be stopped till the end of April period The weather is getting worse period Tomorrow with me fly three Muscovites, it is desirable to take off part of the civilians.
Maslennikov
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-136-198


On the Dyatlov pass.com site, under search, tent, there is highlighted text saying that second flashlight found 400 metres down slope, switched off, battery spent?

Regards
Star man
That's not the only error on the main site  kewl1
 

March 26, 2019, 02:26:19 PM
Reply #20
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Do you think this has any implications then for the flashlights??

A flashlight was found 400 m down the slope. It was said to have been switched off and batteries spent when found.  So they took the flashlight with them and then discarded it.  To me it's says it was dark, but not impossible to see.

Regards

Star man
The flashlight was switched on (presumed to be left as a beacon for the return)
Sheet 191
Radiogram
Received by Sysoev
7/3-59
28 people continued to search all day long period No results in 450 meters under the tent found flashlight turned on comma 20 meters from the tent a piece of broken ski period Tomorrow March 8 is declared a day off period I think that the search must be stopped till the end of April period The weather is getting worse period Tomorrow with me fly three Muscovites, it is desirable to take off part of the civilians.
Maslennikov
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-136-198


I would have thought that the Flashlight found under the Tent was turned on by one of the Dyatlov Group before they fled the Tent in a hurry. It must have been darker in the Tent than outside  ! ?
DB
 

March 27, 2019, 09:54:41 AM
Reply #21

Clacon

Guest
I don't get it....was the flashlight found under the tent or 450m down the slope??

Good point about the darkness within the tent, though I'm assuming one flashlight among 9 people isn't very efficient (this is excluding the "toilet flashlight" which was found ON the tent, right?)….unless the flashlight was somehow attached to the top centre of the tent, thus illuminating the entire tent?

I remember a post by WAB that showed the types of flashlights found and that one looked like a camera almost?? Maybe they had those to use?

Also, is anyone else interested in the broken ski??
 

March 27, 2019, 10:09:24 AM
Reply #22
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Nigel Evans


I don't get it....was the flashlight found under the tent or 450m down the slope??

Good point about the darkness within the tent, though I'm assuming one flashlight among 9 people isn't very efficient (this is excluding the "toilet flashlight" which was found ON the tent, right?)….unless the flashlight was somehow attached to the top centre of the tent, thus illuminating the entire tent?

I remember a post by WAB that showed the types of flashlights found and that one looked like a camera almost?? Maybe they had those to use?

Also, is anyone else interested in the broken ski??
My interpretation of the case file is that it means 450m below the tent (down the slope).

I'd guess that the ski rocked in the high winds (for 3 weeks) until it snapped?
 

March 27, 2019, 02:45:19 PM
Reply #23
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I don't get it....was the flashlight found under the tent or 450m down the slope??

Good point about the darkness within the tent, though I'm assuming one flashlight among 9 people isn't very efficient (this is excluding the "toilet flashlight" which was found ON the tent, right?)….unless the flashlight was somehow attached to the top centre of the tent, thus illuminating the entire tent?

I remember a post by WAB that showed the types of flashlights found and that one looked like a camera almost?? Maybe they had those to use?

Also, is anyone else interested in the broken ski??
My interpretation of the case file is that it means 450m below the tent (down the slope).

I'd guess that the ski rocked in the high winds (for 3 weeks) until it snapped?

Definitely a flashlight was found at the Tent and it was turned on apparently.
DB
 

March 27, 2019, 02:59:10 PM
Reply #24
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I don't get it....was the flashlight found under the tent or 450m down the slope??

Good point about the darkness within the tent, though I'm assuming one flashlight among 9 people isn't very efficient (this is excluding the "toilet flashlight" which was found ON the tent, right?)….unless the flashlight was somehow attached to the top centre of the tent, thus illuminating the entire tent?

I remember a post by WAB that showed the types of flashlights found and that one looked like a camera almost?? Maybe they had those to use?

Also, is anyone else interested in the broken ski??

How exactly was the ski found?  Don't remember reading about a broken ski?

Regards

Star man
 

March 27, 2019, 03:00:37 PM
Reply #25
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I don't get it....was the flashlight found under the tent or 450m down the slope??

Good point about the darkness within the tent, though I'm assuming one flashlight among 9 people isn't very efficient (this is excluding the "toilet flashlight" which was found ON the tent, right?)….unless the flashlight was somehow attached to the top centre of the tent, thus illuminating the entire tent?

I remember a post by WAB that showed the types of flashlights found and that one looked like a camera almost?? Maybe they had those to use?

The flashlight on the tent was suppose to be still working when the search team arrived so must have been switched off?  Or is this another error in the files?

Regards

Star man
Also, is anyone else interested in the broken ski??
My interpretation of the case file is that it means 450m below the tent (down the slope).

I'd guess that the ski rocked in the high winds (for 3 weeks) until it snapped?

Definitely a flashlight was found at the Tent and it was turned on apparently.
 

March 27, 2019, 04:18:13 PM
Reply #26
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Nigel Evans


Definitely a flashlight was found at the Tent and it was turned on apparently.
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-298-300
 

March 28, 2019, 09:38:21 AM
Reply #27

Clacon

Guest
Hi Star Man - re: broken ski: "No results in 450 meters under the tent found flashlight turned on comma 20 meters from the tent a piece of broken ski period" from the radiogram sent - I think Nigel posted it?
 

March 28, 2019, 02:17:55 PM
Reply #28
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Definitely a flashlight was found at the Tent and it was turned on apparently.
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-298-300

Apologies. It was apparently turned off when found.
DB
 

March 28, 2019, 04:30:41 PM
Reply #29
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Hi Star Man - re: broken ski: "No results in 450 meters under the tent found flashlight turned on comma 20 meters from the tent a piece of broken ski period" from the radiogram sent - I think Nigel posted it?

Thanks.  That's interesting.  Anyone know what their skis were made of?

Regards

Star man