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Author Topic: Get angry with me...  (Read 3944 times)

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July 12, 2020, 11:16:29 PM
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NightLurker


Yeah, we all have our theories and it's no different than anybody else...

The TENT is where it all started, we agree on that?

NINE people. All dead, We agree on that?

Facts are facts, we agree on that?

Everybody was hanging out in that tent. There is talk that two were running around outside, but does that matter? All died. We agree on that?

What we can also agree on is that something happened at that tent. That is where everyone there went haywire, agreed?

Okay... So what ACTUALLY happened there?

Let's REMOVE the paranormal because that is NOT provable. We can disagree with that, but let's just PRETEND that the BIGFOOT, the YETI, The Loch Ness Monster Aliens or Elvis DID NOT go in there and do some damage, scare people who generally don't scare easily, and monsters who eat peoples tongues and suck out their eyeballs don't really exist. Agreed?

Something happened to these nine people, who are, granted, young... but have better sense than most of us do with hiking and skiing than we do. They have been trekking these areas for a good amount of time and know their stuff, Agreed?

They placed their tent on a grade that would NOT create a problem with an avalanche. At that grade, IF an avalanche were to happen they would have never heard it anyway. Why was the tent STILL there? Unbroken with BOTH poles STILL planted and straight up to the sky? They were not stupid, that grade would NEVER create an avalanche and everybody knows it.

When the tent was found, most of their clothes were removed to dry out from the sweat. They were safe and DINNER was on the floor for everyone to eat. When the investigators showed up, dinner was STILL there on the floor, along with their boots, socks, warm clothes, etc... so they had to leave quick, agreed?

They were in such a panic, they cut holes in the side of the tent, but obvious is obvious... THEY DID NOT RUN once outside of the tent. They did NOT run down the hill as some may propose. THEY WALKED.

That's right. THEY WALKED down to the valley... 1 mile in the snow, no boots, no warm clothes, many with just socks, some without socks. WHY???

What in the world would make them do that? Even though the tracks (1 month old) showed that it WAS NOT SINGLE FILE but they marched down side by side, and why???

How do we know they didn't run down there? because running v/s walking have different tracks. It's undeniable. Pics prove it.

Now you name a sasquatch that will force them to do that. You name an alien that would do that. They walked down there calmly.

Think about it. If they were scared they would have run like crazy!

I will propose a timeline... WITHOUT names... you can fill in the blanks, Okay?

Back up at the tent, they got beaten up pretty bad. So much in fact that many had injuries that not taken care of within 48 hours, many would indeed DIE.

Marched down the hill toward the valley, the attackers figured their job was done and the cold weather would do them in. BUT...

They all got together at the cedar tree and started a fire. The attackers doubled back to finish the job, but could not get there fast enough to stop them from splitting up.

The worst of the party, two men were left under the cedar tree. They traded clothes to allow TWO parties to go out and find help and stay warm. The two at the cedar tree with the fire will stay warm.

The attackers came back and took out the two at the cedar tree. Still alive, but beaten so bad, they will die. Same with the four at the den. They caught up with them and did the same. The last three, they were trying to get back to the tent for flashlights and warm clothes... and died along the way.

Each were doomed with their injuries but hypothermia set in before death.

The question is, who were the attackers? Why do this? Who ordered this, if anybody?

This isn't about wind. This isn't about aliens, sasquatch, nor weird sounds to mess up peoples brains nor magic mushrooms, alcohol nor even a silly fight over a cute girl.

Although you may disagree with some, part or ALL of the story, something happened and the Russians DO want this to go away.

Thanks for listening.

You are now required to post any other theories but I do ask that you keep them plain and simple. Tin-foil hat theories should keep to a bare minimum for I fear you may be made fun of.

Again, Thank you!







 

July 13, 2020, 12:02:39 AM
Reply #1
Offline

Teddy

Administrator
Get angry with me...
No reason. Majority of the people, at least that I consider with healthy brains, accept the facts that you state. This is what it looks like from the case files, photos and recollections. The interpretation may vary though.

I have published long ago this article which does not contradict what you are saying.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=96.0

Back up at the tent, they got beaten up pretty bad. So much in fact that many had injuries that not taken care of within 48 hours, many would indeed DIE.
This is a point I disagree with. Dubinina, Zolotaryov and Thibeaux-Brignolle have died 20, not more than 30 mins after their injuries were inflicted. They were not carried down, their trauma happened in the ravine (this is what I call the area where they were found although I know is not much of a ravine).

According to the coroner Vozrozhdenny (see Sheet 382): "Dubinina died 10-20 minutes after the trauma."
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 12:17:49 AM by Teddy »
 

July 13, 2020, 06:52:51 AM
Reply #2
Offline

MDGross


Hello NightLurker, I wouldn't discount Elvis. He seems to appear everywhere.
But, to expand on your theory, perhaps the KGB arrived that night by helicopter. That could explain the bright lights seen in the last photos of two cameras. Why? Who knows. Maybe one of the hikers was going to sell military secrets. However, hiking/cross-country skiing is so popular in the Soviet Union at this time and the nine young folks lived good, quiet and productive lives. Better not to shoot them and take unnecessary heat, let nature do the dirty work. The timing is perfect  – below zero, snowing, strong winds. Just make them march so unprepared down the slope and into the forest. Then rest in the tent or the helicopter until the sun comes up. Go check and find the nine hikers dead from hypothermia or from a fall onto rocks into the ravine.
I emphasize that this is only speculation on my part. I have no proof and never will. But the theory fascinates me.
 

July 13, 2020, 09:55:46 AM
Reply #3
Offline

Nigel Evans


"How do we know they didn't run down there?"Because it was night and the ground had hard sharp rocks hidden by cold slippery snow and ice?

How fast would you run?
 

July 13, 2020, 12:00:29 PM
Reply #4
Offline

Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Bring attacked is a well established theory.

Sometimes tin foil hat theories are tomorrows science.

Regards

Star man
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 12:22:08 PM by Teddy »
 

July 13, 2020, 12:20:20 PM
Reply #5
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Problem is with any of the attack theories is the actual injuries that we know were found on the bodies during the Autopsies. And apart from the very serious and unusual injuries to bodies at the Ravine many of the bodies did not show signs of any serious beatings. We should expect to see a fair bit of damage on all of the bodies if such fighting took place.
DB
 

July 13, 2020, 03:10:12 PM
Reply #6
Offline

Jean Daniel Reuss



........................

Certainly there was a massacre of a terrorist nature, that is to say, an act of war to counter Russia, which was at the same time communist, Soviet, imperialist and totalitarian.

See:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=464.msg9152#msg9152
    Materials of 1959 ---> Maslennikov notebooks
May 22, 2020, 10:04:55 AM: Reply #4
Evgeniy Polikarpovich Maslennikov (1924-1978) makes a very unclear reference to an attack by armed men who could be citizens of a Caucasian country.


See:
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;u=325;area=showposts;start=150
Since March 12, 2018, Per Inge Oestmoen has sent 180 posts, almost all of which describe the actions of professional killers for which he does not specify the motives.
 

See :
https://dyatlovpass.com/theories?flp=1#fight
Eduard Tumanov, is pushing a theory that hikers took part in a fight, either between them (which was my hypothesis N°1, now abandoned) - or with outsiders (my hypothesis N°2).

See :
http://mystery12home.ru/t-ub-gr-dyatlova
There is here a detailed reenactment of the massacre by Aleks Kandr, which supposes that a commander, in the Vizhay region, hired three professional mercenary killers - presumably known criminals - thus ex-zeks freed, from 1953, by the decisions of Nikita Krushchev.
   (But Aleks Kandr writes in Russian and I have great difficulty in translating and understanding him correctly.)


See :
   https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=408.msg9561#msg9561   
    Altercation on the pass --> Krivonischenko biting his hand
June 11, 2020, 02:53:29     :  Reply #4

Attackers = political enemies  = ex-zeks = free men = (NOT prisoners) =  terrorists = inhabitants of the Vizhay region (maybe settlement 41) = internal combatants in an ongoing patriotic war = unknown nationality (Chechens, Poles...).

In 1959 there remained in the vicinity of Vizhay a small proportion of ex-zeks or former political prisoners who had many good reasons to hate the Soviet regime and who were ready to continue their patriotic struggle.

It is difficult to know if these were: Chechens, Ingush, Crimean Tatars, Poles, Czechoslovakians, Hungarians, Romanians, Moldovans, Ukrainians, Koreans, Germans, Bulgarians, Estonians, Lithuanians, Latvians... or from other countries.


See the beginning of my hypothesis N°2 :
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=411.0
Posts since March 24, 2020, 04:07:07 PM    : since Reply #18
    Altercation on the pass  --->  Altercation on the pass


°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

There will be many points to examine and discuss in detail. Here are a few examples

They were in such a panic...

The hikers were not panicked, but they were suffocating and coughing because of the Improvised Suffocaging Device which in a few tens of seconds had made the atmosphere inside the tent completely unbreathable by probably releasing SO².

they cut holes in the side of the tent...

It was not the hikers who cut down the tent. It was the attackers who, after defeating the hikers with difficulty, rested inside the tent, which was then intact. Then, before leaving definitely, probably for Vizhay, the attackers negligently damaged the tent in a gesture of victory and contempt.


THEY WALKED down to the valley...

Kolmogorova and Slobodin never reached the cedar tree, they were already lying stunned on the slope and would soon freeze to death.


The attackers came back and took out the two at the cedar tree. Still alive, but beaten so bad, they will die. Same with the four at the den. They caught up with them and did the same.

Yes !


The last three, they were trying to get back to the tent ...

No ! Kolmogorova, Slobodin and Dyatlov were long since out of action, motionless and lying in the snow.
Moreover, before the moon rose, darkness was complete and it would have been almost impossible to find the tent.
Jean Daniel Reuss

Rational guidance =

• There is nothing supernatural and mysterious about the injuries suffered by the Dyatlov group. They are all consistent with an attack by a group of professional killers who wanted to take the lives of the nine  [Per Inge Oestmoen].

• Now let us search for answers to: WHO ? WHY ? HOW ?

• The scenario must be consistent with the historical, political and psychological  contexts.

• The solution takes in consideration all known findings.
 

July 14, 2020, 01:25:32 AM
Reply #7
Offline

hoosiergose


I said it before & I still stand by it-
That the Occam’s Razor doctrine would lean towards murder. (calculated murder)
The next question is The Who? & The Why?
 

July 14, 2020, 12:39:18 PM
Reply #8
Offline

RidgeWatcher


I still think that Semyon was the mystery member here.

1) Surived a brutal war.

2) Age difference.

3) Added on at the last moment with initial consternation to some of the Dyatalov group.

4) Between all nine members, he and Dubinina, had the most trauma, possible the last to suffer any trauma.

5) A strong family history of valor and patriotism.

Sometimes I wonder if Semyon, who used an alias(?), was sent on this mission as a fact finder, trying to ascertain information regarding political combatants in the region. His history is murky, this is not a reflection on him personally, he was age 37 and trying to pass physical fitness milestone that would help him in the future. He was the perfect bait for governmental authorities to groom for data collection on the dessenters in the region.

What if Dubinia angered a few sociopath dissenters in Vishay, Settlement 42 or along the way. This is a clear possibility.

What if Semyon, or another member, actually got caught at doing something they shouldn't have been doing? What if Semyon was caught outside the "guest hotel" in Vishay, snooping around.

I really could have been any member but I always go back to the splitting off of the Blinov group heading west at Vishay and the Dyatlov group heading north to Settlement 42. The Blinov group didn't have a last minute stranger added on, a member much different than the others.

What do we really know about Semyon, other than the other members liked and respected him and that he and Dubinina died horrifically?

« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 12:43:48 PM by RidgeWatcher »
 

July 14, 2020, 03:25:57 PM
Reply #9
Offline

Frankie


Yeah, we all have our theories and it's no different than anybody else...

The TENT is where it all started, we agree on that?

NINE people. All dead, We agree on that?

Facts are facts, we agree on that?

Everybody was hanging out in that tent. There is talk that two were running around outside, but does that matter? All died. We agree on that?

What we can also agree on is that something happened at that tent. That is where everyone there went haywire, agreed?

Okay... So what ACTUALLY happened there?

Let's REMOVE the paranormal because that is NOT provable. We can disagree with that, but let's just PRETEND that the BIGFOOT, the YETI, The Loch Ness Monster Aliens or Elvis DID NOT go in there and do some damage, scare people who generally don't scare easily, and monsters who eat peoples tongues and suck out their eyeballs don't really exist. Agreed?

Something happened to these nine people, who are, granted, young... but have better sense than most of us do with hiking and skiing than we do. They have been trekking these areas for a good amount of time and know their stuff, Agreed?

They placed their tent on a grade that would NOT create a problem with an avalanche. At that grade, IF an avalanche were to happen they would have never heard it anyway. Why was the tent STILL there? Unbroken with BOTH poles STILL planted and straight up to the sky? They were not stupid, that grade would NEVER create an avalanche and everybody knows it.

When the tent was found, most of their clothes were removed to dry out from the sweat. They were safe and DINNER was on the floor for everyone to eat. When the investigators showed up, dinner was STILL there on the floor, along with their boots, socks, warm clothes, etc... so they had to leave quick, agreed?

They were in such a panic, they cut holes in the side of the tent, but obvious is obvious... THEY DID NOT RUN once outside of the tent. They did NOT run down the hill as some may propose. THEY WALKED.

That's right. THEY WALKED down to the valley... 1 mile in the snow, no boots, no warm clothes, many with just socks, some without socks. WHY???

What in the world would make them do that? Even though the tracks (1 month old) showed that it WAS NOT SINGLE FILE but they marched down side by side, and why???

How do we know they didn't run down there? because running v/s walking have different tracks. It's undeniable. Pics prove it.

Now you name a sasquatch that will force them to do that. You name an alien that would do that. They walked down there calmly.

Think about it. If they were scared they would have run like crazy!

I will propose a timeline... WITHOUT names... you can fill in the blanks, Okay?


Back up at the tent, they got beaten up pretty bad. So much in fact that many had injuries that not taken care of within 48 hours, many would indeed DIE.


This is where I begin to disagree. I really don’t think anyone who might have been injured would make it a mile (give or take) down the hill in the snow, in the frigid temperatures with the wind.



Marched down the hill toward the valley, the attackers figured their job was done and the cold weather would do them in. BUT...

They all got together at the cedar tree and started a fire. The attackers doubled back to finish the job, but could not get there fast enough to stop them from splitting up.


The worst of the party, two men were left under the cedar tree. They traded clothes to allow TWO parties to go out and find help and stay warm. The two at the cedar tree with the fire will stay warm.


And here - I don’t think anyone believed, even for a second, they could find help. In fact, I bet they knew their odds were better staying together.



The attackers came back and took out the two at the cedar tree. Still alive, but beaten so bad, they will die. Same with the four at the den. They caught up with them and did the same. The last three, they were trying to get back to the tent for flashlights and warm clothes... and died along the way.


Not many at the tree had injuries associated with being brutally attacked.



Each were doomed with their injuries but hypothermia set in before death.

The question is, who were the attackers? Why do this? Who ordered this, if anybody?

This isn't about wind. This isn't about aliens, sasquatch, nor weird sounds to mess up peoples brains nor magic mushrooms, alcohol nor even a silly fight over a cute girl.

Although you may disagree with some, part or ALL of the story, something happened and the Russians DO want this to go away.

Thanks for listening.

You are now required to post any other theories but I do ask that you keep them plain and simple. Tin-foil hat theories should keep to a bare minimum for I fear you may be made fun of.

Again, Thank you!

I vacillate between theories. At the moment, I and thinking through an attack theory. I started by thinking about an internal disagreement, but I just can’t come up with anything that makes sense with the known evidence. I dunno, maybe Mansi. I’m still pondering the possibilities. 

 

July 16, 2020, 04:55:19 AM
Reply #10
Offline

sparrow


Hello Frankie.

In looking at the injuries that 3 or 4 of the hikers had, I think they did have an internal disagreement.  But I do not think it was the cause of their deaths.
 

July 16, 2020, 08:42:54 PM
Reply #11
Offline

Georgi


"How do we know they didn't run down there?"Because it was night and the ground had hard sharp rocks hidden by cold slippery snow and ice?

How fast would you run?
If I am forced to abandon my only shelter for 60+km while poorly dressed and without footwear or tools/weapons I would be running. If you don't have the time to pick up your boots, parka, pants, ax, knives etc... you don't have the time for walking unless you are ordered to walk at gun point.
 

July 16, 2020, 08:59:41 PM
Reply #12
Offline

Georgi


Problem is with any of the attack theories is the actual injuries that we know were found on the bodies during the Autopsies. And apart from the very serious and unusual injuries to bodies at the Ravine many of the bodies did not show signs of any serious beatings. We should expect to see a fair bit of damage on all of the bodies if such fighting took place.

There were four with injuries consistent with a fight. They fought initially and were subdued after an initial scuffle at the tent. The two men that were outside were overwhelmed immediately while the other 7 exited the tent, 4 of them started a fight upon exiting while the other 3 were still in the tent or were subdued quickly. Someone fires a round in the air and the fight ends because they realize there are more than they can handle and they have ranged weapons which would guarantee immediate death not only for themselves but for all of their companions. Most people, if given a choice between certain death now or almost certain death in a few hours will choose almost certain death in a few hours.

Once they were by the trees they were isolated in smaller groups  that were easier to control, the two men under the tree likely died second, Slobodim died first on the decend, Zina and Igor started heading back to the tent either rout of desperation, misplaced confidence the attackers were gone, guilt for getting the group in this circumstance or they though the rest were dead and they were the last once left. They died on the way back, so now the attacking force would have had to control 4 people instead of 9.
 

July 16, 2020, 09:15:02 PM
Reply #13
Offline

Georgi




This is where I begin to disagree. I really don’t think anyone who might have been injured would make it a mile (give or take) down the hill in the snow, in the frigid temperatures with the wind.
The once with signs of fighting were injured enough to indicate a fight but not injured enough to cause death except for maybe Slobodin. So they suffered injuries from a fistfight but didnt suffer the severe injuries when they were already in the forest.




Quote
And here - I don’t think anyone believed, even for a second, they could find help. In fact, I bet they knew their odds were better staying together.
You get disagreements, Dyatlov realizes after the two men under the tree die that they are doomed if they don't make it back to the tent and out of guilt or sense of duty decides to make the trip back, Zina doesn't want to leave to go alone so she goes with him. The other 4 members are convinced going back is a bad idea and conclude they need a shelter if they are to survive.



Quote
Not many at the tree had injuries associated with being brutally attacked.
They don't have to all have been brutally attacked, some were injured in the initial fight and suffered from injuries from falling out of a tree, burning themselves or dying from hypothermia while others were killed through force.
 

July 16, 2020, 09:21:50 PM
Reply #14
Offline

Georgi


Hello Frankie.

In looking at the injuries that 3 or 4 of the hikers had, I think they did have an internal disagreement.  But I do not think it was the cause of their deaths.
What kind of internal disagreement would cause them to leave their shelter and travel 1.5km at night without adequate clothing or tools? A disagreement like that would have a build up to it and it would be evident in the pictures of the days leading up to the last day and people would be writing in their journals about the problem. The once with evidence of a fist fight were Igor, Zina, Doroshenko, Slobodin so it could conceivably be a love triangle between Zina, Igor and Yuri D but that would leave 6 other people capable of pulling the combatants apart. I don't see any scenario where they get into a fight amongst themselves and end up at the treeline in various states of undress and shoeless, some maybe but not all of them.
 

July 17, 2020, 05:15:21 PM
Reply #15
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
"How do we know they didn't run down there?"Because it was night and the ground had hard sharp rocks hidden by cold slippery snow and ice?

How fast would you run?
If I am forced to abandon my only shelter for 60+km while poorly dressed and without footwear or tools/weapons I would be running. If you don't have the time to pick up your boots, parka, pants, ax, knives etc... you don't have the time for walking unless you are ordered to walk at gun point.

If you are really scared by something then you may just decide to get the hell out of the Tent and get away as fast as possible.
DB
 

July 17, 2020, 05:19:17 PM
Reply #16
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Problem is with any of the attack theories is the actual injuries that we know were found on the bodies during the Autopsies. And apart from the very serious and unusual injuries to bodies at the Ravine many of the bodies did not show signs of any serious beatings. We should expect to see a fair bit of damage on all of the bodies if such fighting took place.

There were four with injuries consistent with a fight. They fought initially and were subdued after an initial scuffle at the tent. The two men that were outside were overwhelmed immediately while the other 7 exited the tent, 4 of them started a fight upon exiting while the other 3 were still in the tent or were subdued quickly. Someone fires a round in the air and the fight ends because they realize there are more than they can handle and they have ranged weapons which would guarantee immediate death not only for themselves but for all of their companions. Most people, if given a choice between certain death now or almost certain death in a few hours will choose almost certain death in a few hours.

Once they were by the trees they were isolated in smaller groups  that were easier to control, the two men under the tree likely died second, Slobodim died first on the decend, Zina and Igor started heading back to the tent either rout of desperation, misplaced confidence the attackers were gone, guilt for getting the group in this circumstance or they though the rest were dead and they were the last once left. They died on the way back, so now the attacking force would have had to control 4 people instead of 9.

You say that there were 4 at the Tent who fought and that they had injuries consistent with a fight.  Which 4 are you referring to and which injuries ?
DB
 

July 19, 2020, 12:12:42 PM
Reply #17

eurocentric

Guest
My novice view is this sudden escape was due to a tornado, something which from the photographs seems far more likely than an avalanche. The peak doesn't have a steep enough slope for an avalanche.

Unlike the trail of destruction caused by a US tornado travelling through a homestead this one would near perfectly cover the crimescene with resettled snow it had consumed. A recent avalanche would have been more obvious to rescuers, and they would have immediately assumed the hikers were buried in the snow.

The hikers would hear the tornado, sense it from changes in air pressure, and possibly see the roof of the tent start to rise. It may even have started to tear at weaker points until they cut their way out. I think the blurry photo's on the smashed camera show attendant lightning effects taken by someone wishing to record the event but who cannot hold the camera steady enough due to the buffeting wind.

The tent does not take a direct hit, and is part submerged in a slope with all the heavier equipment sheltered in a trench, but some clothing becomes airborne and is deposited nearby, rather than it being discarded. Tree tops are said to be damaged. Someone or something is thrown into the ski pole and it snaps.

Outside the tent, and in the dark, they would be met with swirling snow and large hailstones, rotating at high speed sideways, which impacts them causing fractured skulls and broken ribs. Bruising would not fully develop until hours later, and by then they have frozen to death.

Injured, and having lost their bearings and sight of the tent, they'd make their way down the mountain and start a fire, hoping to make it through until dawn and then find the tent. This is where the pain of their injuries starts to rise, and blame & recriminations over the choice of camp site, resulting in a fight brandishing burning logs, causing burns to hands and the group splitting up. They all die from hypothermia/injuries.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 02:32:38 PM by eurocentric »
 

August 12, 2020, 10:43:46 AM
Reply #18
Offline

Squatch


Think about it. If they were scared they would have run like crazy!
But they still had to obey the laws of physics, scared or not.

How often do you run downhill? Not often I'm guessing, because there's a little thing called "gravity" that will tend to accelerate you until you lose your balance and start to tumble uncontrollably. And that's in the summertime. Try running downhill (and with no shoes) in snow with hidden rocks and drop-offs and walking will start to become a better option real quick.

I doubt the group was whistling merrily and walking happily down the mountain slope like some would believe by simply looking at the seemingly ordinary footsteps they left. They were more likely listening carefully for the rumbling sound of an avalanche that would precede their death. And perhaps Rustem Slobodin got his head injury while tripping and falling on his way down the slope. Not running yet still falling? Conditions must have been just awful.

I think the explanation for this tragedy is the mountain, Kholat Syakhl. There is a reason why it is considered such a spooky place. It is a hostile environment to exist in.

Why did they leave the tent the way they did? I think a severe weather event happened that the hikers did not expect. Look at the photo the hikers took of themselves digging out the place where they erected their tent. The weather conditions at that time (late afternoon/early evening) look awful... essentially whiteout conditions. Imagine how much worse it got later that night.

Severe winds probably caused the two well-dressed hikers to work outside to stabilize the tent. The eye-level slits were created by Igor Dyatlov to communicate with the two hikers outside. Periodically he shined his flashlight out through these slits as well.

While the tent was being inspected/worked on, severe wind gusts brought down snow from above which rained down on the tent. Not being able to tell the snow was deposited by wind, the hikers assumed it was an avalanche and fled in terror. In the process, Dyatlov's flashlight was dropped and later found in the off position on a pile of snow deposited from the wind gusts.

It's Kholat Syakhl that holds the missing piece to this puzzle. The micro-climate there can be vicious. The hikers were not familiar with it.
 

August 14, 2020, 09:52:10 AM
Reply #19
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
My novice view is this sudden escape was due to a tornado, something which from the photographs seems far more likely than an avalanche. The peak doesn't have a steep enough slope for an avalanche.

Unlike the trail of destruction caused by a US tornado travelling through a homestead this one would near perfectly cover the crimescene with resettled snow it had consumed. A recent avalanche would have been more obvious to rescuers, and they would have immediately assumed the hikers were buried in the snow.

The hikers would hear the tornado, sense it from changes in air pressure, and possibly see the roof of the tent start to rise. It may even have started to tear at weaker points until they cut their way out. I think the blurry photo's on the smashed camera show attendant lightning effects taken by someone wishing to record the event but who cannot hold the camera steady enough due to the buffeting wind.

The tent does not take a direct hit, and is part submerged in a slope with all the heavier equipment sheltered in a trench, but some clothing becomes airborne and is deposited nearby, rather than it being discarded. Tree tops are said to be damaged. Someone or something is thrown into the ski pole and it snaps.

Outside the tent, and in the dark, they would be met with swirling snow and large hailstones, rotating at high speed sideways, which impacts them causing fractured skulls and broken ribs. Bruising would not fully develop until hours later, and by then they have frozen to death.

Injured, and having lost their bearings and sight of the tent, they'd make their way down the mountain and start a fire, hoping to make it through until dawn and then find the tent. This is where the pain of their injuries starts to rise, and blame & recriminations over the choice of camp site, resulting in a fight brandishing burning logs, causing burns to hands and the group splitting up. They all die from hypothermia/injuries.

Surely a Tornado is just as unlikely as an Avalanche. If the Tornado was that bad it would have destroyed the Tent.
DB
 

August 20, 2020, 02:40:39 PM
Reply #20
Offline

marieuk


Does anyone know for sure how they moved down the slope?  I mean did they go down single file or spread out across in a line.  Maybe this would give some more ideas.  If they were forced to go down the slope by humans, would it be more likely that they would be made to go single file as it's easier to control and/or see what everyone is doing?  If it was some thing or creature they were trying to escape from, is it more likely they would spread out in a line as a defensive manner and would they not be facing the threat behind them so they could see what it was doing?  I guess that would be presuming there was enough light to see, but if they had a torch for at least some of the journey, they would want to see what was behind them don't you think?  Were the footprints they found all facing the same way?  I'd be interested to hear what you know and/or think.   
 

August 20, 2020, 06:59:18 PM
Reply #21
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Georgi




You say that there were 4 at the Tent who fought and that they had injuries consistent with a fight.  Which 4 are you referring to and which injuries ?
Igor, Zina, Slobodin and Yuri K.
 

August 20, 2020, 08:00:06 PM
Reply #22
Offline

Georgi



But they still had to obey the laws of physics, scared or not.
It’s not like they flew away, took  1.5km in one leap or teleported, they ran. They wouldn’t be the first people who were scared to run down a hill at full speed in the dark at night if they were in a state of panic.

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How often do you run downhill?
Never, but then again I have not been in Siberia in the middle of the winter having just cut my only shelter for 60km+ level of scared.
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Not often I'm guessing, because there's a little thing called "gravity" that will tend to accelerate you until you lose your balance and start to tumble uncontrollably. And that's in the summertime. Try running downhill (and with no shoes) in snow with hidden rocks and drop-offs and walking will start to become a better option real quick.
IF something is so terrifying that you just your only shelter for 60km+ I would be running whether gravity is helping me or hurting me. If you are in such a position you have to consider what is behind you is more terrifying then falling down and you run as fast as you can and as far as you can, if you fall you get back up and run, if you get injured and you cant run you walk, if you cant walk you crawl, if you cant crawl you roll down the hill, if you cant roll you inch yourself by your finger tips if you have to. What you are saying is that in a moment of complete and utter panic because something terrible is behind them they would slow down and walk to avoid falling, but in a state of panic when you cut your only shelter for 60km, in the middle of the winter, in Siberia you have to be in complete and uncontrolled panic and people in a state of panic are not known to make the best decisions. So if they walked down that means they were thinking clearly and the threat was behind them with reasonable chance it wont follow them down the slope immediacy at least.

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I doubt the group was whistling merrily and walking happily down the mountain slope like some would believe by simply looking at the seemingly ordinary footsteps they left. They were more likely listening carefully for the rumbling sound of an avalanche that would precede their death. And perhaps Rustem Slobodin got his head injury while tripping and falling on his way down the slope. Not running yet still falling? Conditions must have been just awful.
If there were 8 guys with rifles and pistols at your tent, running down the hill will be pointless especially if they were letting you go at the time. So no, they wouldn’t be happily skipping and whistling while going down the slope but they would also have zero reason to run since their camp is occupied, they had just been in a fight, they had one serious injury and several less serious injured, the attackers are behind them with no indication of coming after them immediately.


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Why did they leave the tent the way they did? I think a severe weather event happened that the hikers did not expect. Look at the photo the hikers took of themselves digging out the place where they erected their tent. The weather conditions at that time (late afternoon/early evening) look awful... essentially whiteout conditions. Imagine how much worse it got later that night.
You have to wonder why experienced hikers would not travel the extra 1.5km down the slope if the conditions were that terrible, or why they traveled so little that day, they covered about 3km if I’m not mistaken and they had planned to cover a significantly longer distance that day. If they had taken another 1-1.5h to get down to the treeline it would have improved their situation significantly, if the weather was getting so bad they would have made for the treeline and set camp there. The fact that they covered so little that day and that they decided to set up their camp site on the slope instead of 1.5km down to the treeline is telling. So taking into account the distance they traveled, where they set up camp and what happened that evening and during the night I think we can safely say they were spooked about something other than the weather.

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Severe winds probably caused the two well-dressed hikers to work outside to stabilize the tent. The eye-level slits were created by Igor Dyatlov to communicate with the two hikers outside. Periodically he shined his flashlight out through these slits as well.
If they were outside working for a prolonged period of time they would have been properly dressed with footwear, parka’s etc… The fact that they were better dressed than the others but not dressed for prolonged exposure to the elements in Siberia tells me that they were outside but they were expecting to be outside for a short period of time(relieve themselves, take a picture of something etc… they weren’t expecting to be outside for more than a few minutes.

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While the tent was being inspected/worked on, severe wind gusts brought down snow from above which rained down on the tent. Not being able to tell the snow was deposited by wind, the hikers assumed it was an avalanche and fled in terror. In the process, Dyatlov's flashlight was dropped and later found in the off position on a pile of snow deposited from the wind gusts.
Experienced hikers flee an avalanche into certain death? They had to know if its an avalanche they wont outrun it and they will end up buried individually, underdressed and without equipment in the dark. They would have to dig themselves out, find all of their friends, then dig for the tent. Being in the tent with 8 other people and all of your clothes and equipment would give you a better chance of survival than being outside underdressed, by yourself, in the dark, in the snow because of the potential avalanche.

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It's Kholat Syakhl that holds the missing piece to this puzzle. The micro-climate there can be vicious. The hikers were not familiar with it.
But they were experienced enough to have the ability to handle themselves in situation like that. If we were talking about the Chivruay incident I could see that as half the group was made of inexperienced hikers and could have panicked, ran out forcing the experienced hikers to follow them to get them back to the tent but when we are talking about 9 experienced hikers, some more than others but all would be experienced enough to remain in the tent for safety unless something/someone was forcing them from the tent.
 

August 20, 2020, 08:16:35 PM
Reply #23
Offline

Georgi


Does anyone know for sure how they moved down the slope?  I mean did they go down single file or spread out across in a line.  Maybe this would give some more ideas.  If they were forced to go down the slope by humans, would it be more likely that they would be made to go single file as it's easier to control and/or see what everyone is doing?  If it was some thing or creature they were trying to escape from, is it more likely they would spread out in a line as a defensive manner and would they not be facing the threat behind them so they could see what it was doing?  I guess that would be presuming there was enough light to see, but if they had a torch for at least some of the journey, they would want to see what was behind them don't you think?  Were the footprints they found all facing the same way?  I'd be interested to hear what you know and/or think.   
If humans were involved, they would be walking side by side or one after the other and this would explain the flashlight about 450m down the slope, they walked 450m and were ordered to drop the flashlight, before that the flash light would have been used to show that all the hikers were going down the slope and none were circling back. If an animal was chasing them away they would all be clustered together( safety in numbers and bigger threat to whatever was behind them). And if an animal was chasing them the flashlight whether working or out of battery would still be of use as a weapon of last resort.
 

August 25, 2020, 02:16:11 PM
Reply #24
Offline

marieuk


Does anyone know for sure how they moved down the slope?  I mean did they go down single file or spread out across in a line.  Maybe this would give some more ideas.  If they were forced to go down the slope by humans, would it be more likely that they would be made to go single file as it's easier to control and/or see what everyone is doing?  If it was some thing or creature they were trying to escape from, is it more likely they would spread out in a line as a defensive manner and would they not be facing the threat behind them so they could see what it was doing?  I guess that would be presuming there was enough light to see, but if they had a torch for at least some of the journey, they would want to see what was behind them don't you think?  Were the footprints they found all facing the same way?  I'd be interested to hear what you know and/or think.   
If humans were involved, they would be walking side by side or one after the other and this would explain the flashlight about 450m down the slope, they walked 450m and were ordered to drop the flashlight, before that the flash light would have been used to show that all the hikers were going down the slope and none were circling back. If an animal was chasing them away they would all be clustered together( safety in numbers and bigger threat to whatever was behind them). And if an animal was chasing them the flashlight whether working or out of battery would still be of use as a weapon of last resort.

thank you for sharing your ideas and thoughts.  It does make sense that you would cluster together if being chased by an animal.  I''ve since read some more and one of the witness reports say that it looked like after leaving the tent they had all lined up in a row before moving down the slope.  I think the more I read the more questions I have  dunno1
 

August 27, 2020, 11:13:37 AM
Reply #25
Offline

Squatch


...You have to wonder why experienced hikers would not travel the extra 1.5km down the slope if the conditions were that terrible, or why they traveled so little that day, they covered about 3km if I’m not mistaken and they had planned to cover a significantly longer distance that day. If they had taken another 1-1.5h to get down to the treeline it would have improved their situation significantly, if the weather was getting so bad they would have made for the treeline and set camp there. The fact that they covered so little that day and that they decided to set up their camp site on the slope instead of 1.5km down to the treeline is telling. So taking into account the distance they traveled, where they set up camp and what happened that evening and during the night I think we can safely say they were spooked about something other than the weather...

We have the picture of the group setting up their tent for the last time. It looks like a blizzard condition. They apparently wanted bad conditions for "credit" toward a hiking certificate, or at least weren't deterred by them and wanted the mountainside camping bragging rights badly. Hence the documentation and pictures to prove to others that they actually did it.

I think they were spooked by some weather or weather-related event that they never encountered before. The difficulty I have with theories other than weather or avalanche is that they seem extremely strange or unlikely. What would the Soviet military's interest be with nine young hikers? Why ambush them out there? For what purpose? The same goes for Yetis or UFOs. Why? Is there not enough prey out there for a Yeti to eat? Do UFOs only trouble hikers on remote mountains?

There was snow on the tent when it was found. It was dismissed as snow drift, in part because the tent was still upright at either end. I think snow blown down onto their tent area that night in the darkness gave the impression of an avalanche starting from above; weeks later when rescuers arrived much of the snow had been taken away by blowing wind. I think the tent supports could survive snow falling vertically on them and remain upright.

Getting the hikers to leave their tent the way they did is always the most difficult part of any theory. So, even if it was weather- or avalanche-related, it would have to be a very unusual weather event or a bizarre kind of limited avalanche.
 

August 27, 2020, 12:03:45 PM
Reply #26
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
...You have to wonder why experienced hikers would not travel the extra 1.5km down the slope if the conditions were that terrible, or why they traveled so little that day, they covered about 3km if I’m not mistaken and they had planned to cover a significantly longer distance that day. If they had taken another 1-1.5h to get down to the treeline it would have improved their situation significantly, if the weather was getting so bad they would have made for the treeline and set camp there. The fact that they covered so little that day and that they decided to set up their camp site on the slope instead of 1.5km down to the treeline is telling. So taking into account the distance they traveled, where they set up camp and what happened that evening and during the night I think we can safely say they were spooked about something other than the weather...

We have the picture of the group setting up their tent for the last time. It looks like a blizzard condition. They apparently wanted bad conditions for "credit" toward a hiking certificate, or at least weren't deterred by them and wanted the mountainside camping bragging rights badly. Hence the documentation and pictures to prove to others that they actually did it.

I think they were spooked by some weather or weather-related event that they never encountered before. The difficulty I have with theories other than weather or avalanche is that they seem extremely strange or unlikely. What would the Soviet military's interest be with nine young hikers? Why ambush them out there? For what purpose? The same goes for Yetis or UFOs. Why? Is there not enough prey out there for a Yeti to eat? Do UFOs only trouble hikers on remote mountains?

There was snow on the tent when it was found. It was dismissed as snow drift, in part because the tent was still upright at either end. I think snow blown down onto their tent area that night in the darkness gave the impression of an avalanche starting from above; weeks later when rescuers arrived much of the snow had been taken away by blowing wind. I think the tent supports could survive snow falling vertically on them and remain upright.

Getting the hikers to leave their tent the way they did is always the most difficult part of any theory. So, even if it was weather- or avalanche-related, it would have to be a very unusual weather event or a bizarre kind of limited avalanche.

Yes its mentioned every now and again that the Dyatlov Group pitched the Tent where they did in order to get experience of tough weather conditions. But surely things were tough enough on the hike up to the final mile without putting their lives at risk in an exposed position. And yes why would the Soviet Military want to kill their own people. And Yeti's dont appear to eat people. And UFO's have been troubling people in less remote areas than Siberia.
DB
 

August 27, 2020, 04:07:26 PM
Reply #27
Offline

Squatch



Yes its mentioned every now and again that the Dyatlov Group pitched the Tent where they did in order to get experience of tough weather conditions. But surely things were tough enough on the hike up to the final mile without putting their lives at risk in an exposed position. And yes why would the Soviet Military want to kill their own people. And Yeti's dont appear to eat people. And UFO's have been troubling people in less remote areas than Siberia.

I do not know for sure. I just think maybe they were young and confident that nothing would go wrong. I was that way when I was young.
 

August 27, 2020, 04:48:20 PM
Reply #28
Offline

marieuk


UFOs often seemed to be linked to mountains.  I don't know why.
 

August 29, 2020, 01:16:20 PM
Reply #29
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
UFOs often seemed to be linked to mountains.  I don't know why.

Plenty of reports of UFO's in areas well away from mountains and hills.
DB