October 20, 2021, 05:36:56 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Get angry with me...  (Read 3938 times)

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April 07, 2021, 08:49:06 PM
Reply #30
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NightLurker


Almost ONE year later and MY GOODNESS!!!

So much to catch up on!

Teddy, you were my first reply, so I start with you... and thank you for a nice welcome...
I read your dissertation at https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=96.0... VERY NICE! It goes along with pretty much what I was trying to convey. My belief is that it was an ATTACK, right out of the blue and nobody in the Dyatlov party expected it.

As to Dubinina, Zolotaryov and Thibeaux-Brignolle, I believe that they were hurt pretty bad, but were able to be marched down the hill to the ravine. From that area the broke formation to look for help and were found and beaten to the point that there would be no survival. Many were found months afterward and I don't think a coroner could say exactly when they died. I think many injuries were COMPLETED after they broke from each other at the ravine area (tree).

MDGross, Although it is speculation, and ELVIS may be involved, I would NOT discount your idea that the KGB was involved. Many in the party did work for a nuclear technology facility in college and DID trade up radiated clothes for others to stay warm in their trek to find help. Marched down the hill is what they did, not single file but NEXT to each other. Reports do say there were boot prints in the area, even on the way down the hill. The tracks also suggest that they were NOT running. They walked.

Nigel, I LOVE your posts but I disagree, they DID NOT RUN. Even though the tracks in the snow were old and weatherbeaten, experts there state that there were NO footfall tendencies to show they "RAN' down the hill. They walked calmly. I think they were MARCHED down and their attackers broke off pursuit after a bit of time to corner them again at the bottom of the hill in the ravine area.

StarMan, you are correct. If they were NOT attacked, why would there not be commotion all over? They were SUBDUED into what was told of them to do.

Sarapuk, you do post a lot here and you have some interesting ideas you have put forth, NONE can be discounted. BUT... I don't think there was a fight between the party. The gals were well established (and may have had sights on other guys that were not there) and the guys there didn't really have sights on them. If so, the diaries the gals kept would have shown this. (gals love to yap about guys they like in their diaries) Although they may have been attractive, I think the guys there accepted them as "equals" to a certain extent and accepted them as such. Of course, there is no way to be completely sure, but girls will be girls...

Jean Daniel Reuss,, while I have NOT investigated all you say, it is NOT impossible that there were OTHER factions at play here. The Soviet empire was gaining ground at that time with nuclear technology. What better way to grab up a bunch of "kids" who were on vacation (and know about nuclear technology) and push and threaten Moscow? It certainly is NOT out of the realm of possibility. I like your idea but this was too LOCAL. A bunch of kids that know more than ANYBODY else how to survive in below zero extremities? Most of them could tell NOTHING about nuclear plans. They could tell you more about how to lay skis under a tent than give up nuke technology. This can be debated, but hey, why not go after the big HONCHOS outside of a facility?

I have to admit, it is very possible though as to your post as to what happened during that time.

hoosiergose? the idea of Occam’s Razor principle is COMPLETELY in effect, but NOT entirely. In theory, YES. The problem is that as this works in MOST cases, where the easiest, most simple idea is what happened, it doesn't work here because there are too many variables. The tent was still intact, dinner was still on the floor, sweaty clothes and boots were removed to dry, warm people in a canvas tent means warmth in the tent, the back door was found CLOSED, the cuts in the tent occurred from INSIDE and almost EVERYONE was found without proper clothing to sustain themselves in such weather. This shows that this was NOT normal. The SIMPLEST explanation cannot work with this scenario.

RidgeWatcher... In EXCELLENT point. Semyon was the odd man out, even JUST because of his age. He had contacts for sure in any Soviet enclave, and I do think he had something to do with what happened. I also think he was EXPENDABLE. If I remember correctly, he had a camera, and it was never found. Please correct me if I am wrong. He was found near Dubinina who was very vocal on many things, and her tongue was removed. I think this is very important and investigating Semyon could prove very informative. Sadly, he is kinda like a GHOST in this. a NowhereMan.

Frankie, love ya! But you can be wrong sometimes. I'm very sorry... With superficial wounds, even with a broken hip or even a broken ankle, or even broken ribs, it IS possible to survive, walk, do what is needed for a mile at least if you are in good shape. These kids were in better shape than most of us. Many of us can continue on in pain if our lives depended on it. Staying together? Most were in such bad sorts that others in better condition decided to break away to find help. The Tree? Those there were in pretty bad condition. They started a fire to keep them warm and moved on to find help. That's where the clothes exchange happened. Those that went looking for help were given the best clothes possible to venture on. An internal disagreement probably NEVER happened. They were friends, except for one, but that ONE would have been shot down quickly.

Sparrow, as far as I know, there would NOT have been any disagreements. Matter of fact, they KNEW what they were doing and would have followed protocols to remain WITHOUT disagreements. Although they were young, they could be considered EXPERTS in this field.

Georgi, You are correct on your last point. At gunpoint, you do as you are told. No knife is going to save you unless you have an edge, no pun intended. And again, what you are saying is complete speculation, that there was a fight between themselves. I contend there was NO fight between themselves because THEY ALL DID NOT RUN DOWN THE HILL VOLUNTARILY. All of them. And another thing, THEY DID NOT RUN. They WALKED.

Eurocentric, you proclaim a tornado, but this is impossible. If true, the frozen tracks leading down the hill would have been covered up. Also, the tent, as Sarapuk mentioned, would have been swept away. Sorry, no tornado, no way.

Squatch has the theory that most people think happened, but the grade of the hill does not support this idea. These people were EXPERTS at what they have done before. If they thought it was a problem, they would have pitched their tent much higher up the hill. The grade was negligible and posed no problem. Even the investigators came to a complete agreement.

marieuk- what happened was they were WALKED down side by side. Footprints proved this. Nine side by side. NOT single file.

As I go through, I am noticing Georgi has changed his ideals a bit. He is beginning to realize that what he was saying before was impossible...

-----------------------------------------

My Complete Analysis?

I stick to my original story.

Teddy has things not completely right, but the gist of it is there. Teddy has EXTENSIVE research here and I am STILL going through it. NOBODY can completely explain what happened but if you follow the clues, you WILL get to the point of what actually happened. There was no UFO's. There was no Yeti. There was no Loch Ness Monster. This was nothing more than a band of ruthless COMMUNIST thugs who decided to attack the COMMUNIST party.

We ALL know what pretty much what happened. Matter of fact, all the clues are there.

Funny, they did this against a few kids on vacation. What was the REAL reason? We don't know because, as the former Soviet Union, they don't need to explain themselves.

Thank you for your attention.



.

 



 







 
 

April 08, 2021, 07:56:44 AM
Reply #31
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KFinn


Elvis was alive and well in 1959 so he wouldn't qualify as "supernatural."  I mean, did anyone ever see Elvis and Khrushchev together?   Who is to say they weren't one and the same?

 dance1

(Sorry, I am much more funny in my head before I make jokes out loud, lol!!)
-Ren
 

April 08, 2021, 09:09:42 AM
Reply #32
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Nigel Evans


@NightLurker - its good you love my posts but even better would be if you read them?  kewl1


We both agree they walked down. Imo YuriK limped down.
 

April 08, 2021, 11:00:11 AM
Reply #33
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Nightlurker. You are making claims but you cannot provide any proof. Many Members come along and do exactly the same thing.
DB
 

April 08, 2021, 02:26:43 PM
Reply #34
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marieuk


Well thank you for replying.   It must have taken you some time to answer everyone.  It would make sense if they walked slowly down the slope side by side as you say, that they were forced to do so.  Unless someone has other ideas  grin1
 

April 09, 2021, 12:50:30 PM
Reply #35
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bergertime


But being attacked makes not sense, and it doesn't fit.  They ate dinner, went to bed had some type of tent issue, tried to fix it, while the three worked on the tent, the other went down to the tree, thinking they were on their way to the storage.  This is in a sub zero weather in blizzard like conditions. The three died before they reached the tree, the two Yuri's covered in sweat from gathering the limbs and getting the fire started died, the last four fell in a snow hole and died.  Some of the facts are confusing, some of the evidence is misleading maybe.  But the KGB sending in a special ops force to deal with 9 unarmed young adults, no way.  They would have killed them in the town center if they wanted them dead and to make an example out of them.  If someone wanted them dead, why....so many whys, shoot them in the head, slit their throats. But to do it in super stealth mode...but to make it so grand.   
 

April 09, 2021, 02:16:04 PM
Reply #36
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marieuk


Maybe not, but if you had to walk a mile in sub-zero temperatures during a blizzard wouldn't you want to be properly dressed with something on your feet?
 

April 09, 2021, 09:36:18 PM
Reply #37
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NightLurker


Naaaaaa.... KFinn Maybe Elvis was still alive during the Gorbachev era, who can say? I make jokes out loud too! Elvis was an interesting character and even though Nixon was doing a good job (keeping politics out of this, lol) Elvis had his problems as many others did.

Nigel, we BOTH agree they WALKED down, NOT single file but do you agree they WALKED down side by side as many reports explained? Some with shoes, some in socks, some barefoot?  Many LIMPED down. Agreed... but they were FORCED to go down the hill to the ravine. MARCHED. Nice and easy, as they were subdued by one person or a few others. There was no "calamity" going on. The tracks showed that there was NO crazy running around other than around the tent. Side by side, right down to the valley. Unmistakable.

Sarapuk, of course I cannot provide any PROOF except what others noticed right there on the scene and logged them in to their reports. There are some items that differ, but for the most part, we can get an idea as to what happened just by what many investigators noticed. We cannot spin those FACTS. If some 10 people say one thing, and they are all together on it, and the evidence shows it, then the one odd man out saying a yeti attacked them, then the Yeti idea can be construed as FALSE. Pictures show what happened. No denying that.

Marieuk, I AGREE COMPLETELY. There was a reason those tracks were headed that way. If it was complete CHAOS, then there would have been footfall tracks everywhere. Investigators noticed the ski tracks leading to the area they camped at. They ALL led from the area where they stored their stuff a few miles away. There is no denying this one.

Bergertime, when investigators showed up, dinner was STILL laid on the floor of the tent. They didn't finish dinner. Pork was still there along with bread and other fixins. There was no tent issue. Dyatlov fashioned TWO tents together so many people could be in there. Just the body warmth kept the inside warm. In fact, it was so warm that there was no reason to start up the coal heater he invented. Time to take sweaty clothes off, let them dry and enjoy dinner, right? You would do the same.

As to your idea of the KGB? Well, you don't go shooting people in the middle of a town, do you? All kinds of media reports get out quickly. You don't turn it into a chaos scene. You do the DIRTY when they least expect it.

Every one of them were beaten to a pulp, and not a single shot was fired. No autopsy showed any bullets. They were beaten up so bad that none would survive in that weather. Funny, because EACH one of them with no body problems would have survived.

Although young, these kids knew how to survive in this weather. They EACH knew what they were doing.

And marieuk, of COURSE you want something on your feet, but the weird thing is that many of them WERE NOT wearing their boots. Their footwear was found in the tent when investigators found everything. Sweaty boots mean you take them off to dry.

They were taken by surprise and that is what happened.

In essence, something happened there and it happened QUICK. Under any NORMAL circumstance, they would have dressed back up, except for an avalanche, but an avalanche is out of the question because the grade (slope) was relatively normal. They would not have pitched their tent in a situation that something like that could happen. They knew what they were doing, so much that they placed their skis under the tent for a nice hard surface. If it was some paranormal situation, they would have been running everywhere, which they DID NOT DO. One or two wold have run for the storage area they set up, which DID NOT HAPPEN either.

So, any ideas on anything other than what the investigators found?

 
 

April 10, 2021, 07:39:22 AM
Reply #38
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Nigel Evans


Nigel, we BOTH agree they WALKED down, NOT single file but do you agree they WALKED down side by side as many reports explained? Some with shoes, some in socks, some barefoot?  Many LIMPED down. Agreed... but they were FORCED to go down the hill to the ravine. MARCHED. Nice and easy, as they were subdued by one person or a few others. There was no "calamity" going on. The tracks showed that there was NO crazy running around other than around the tent. Side by side, right down to the valley. Unmistakable.My favourite theory is that the 2 Yuris both needed assistance on the descent so that would give you two groups of three people side by side. If they take slightly different paths then you've got six people walking "side by side".
 

April 10, 2021, 10:35:25 AM
Reply #39
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Nightlurker.  Sarapuk, of course I cannot provide any PROOF except what others noticed right there on the scene and logged them in to their reports. There are some items that differ, but for the most part, we can get an idea as to what happened just by what many investigators noticed. We cannot spin those FACTS. If some 10 people say one thing, and they are all together on it, and the evidence shows it, then the one odd man out saying a yeti attacked them, then the Yeti idea can be construed as FALSE. Pictures show what happened. No denying that.
Investigators  ! ? Are you referring tp Members in this Forum ! ? Not sure what you are trying to say. We have what we have been told and shown by the Authorities. There is not much Evidence and no Evidence that can prove any particular Theory.
DB
 

April 10, 2021, 09:35:00 PM
Reply #40
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Manti


Just the body warmth kept the inside warm. In fact, it was so warm that there was no reason to start up the coal heater he invented.
Please set up a single-layer canvas tent in -15C to -25C conditions and try how much your body heat warms up the tent...

As to your idea of the KGB? Well, you don't go shooting people in the middle of a town, do you? All kinds of media reports get out quickly. You don't turn it into a chaos scene.
Well this was '59 in the Soviet Union... no free media, in fact the Dyatlov Pass Incident was as far as I know not reported about at all until the fall of the Soviet Union.
 

April 12, 2021, 04:12:31 PM
Reply #41
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Nigel Evans


Just the body warmth kept the inside warm. In fact, it was so warm that there was no reason to start up the coal heater he invented.
Please set up a single-layer canvas tent in -15C to -25C conditions and try how much your body heat warms up the tent...

As to your idea of the KGB? Well, you don't go shooting people in the middle of a town, do you? All kinds of media reports get out quickly. You don't turn it into a chaos scene.
Well this was '59 in the Soviet Union... no free media, in fact the Dyatlov Pass Incident was as far as I know not reported about at all until the fall of the Soviet Union.
But it was public knowledge, look at the funeral photos.
 

April 14, 2021, 07:10:53 PM
Reply #42
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NightLurker


And then I open up a whole NEW idea of ideas that will add to the mystery.

I am NOT here to debunk every theory, I do know what investigators FOUND. I can deduce from those reports what MAY have happened. Although these "reports" are not perfect, quite a few are and have been categorized as "heresay" and "who knows".

BUT...

If you go through EVERYTHING and why things happened the way they did by a process of elimination, you will come to the eventual conclusion I have. From diary logs to the tent, from the fact that they were good at what they do to utter SUPPOSED stupidity, to bad food to heavy drinking, Yeti and UFO's, Mansi and KGB to all kinds of subjects, these kids KNEW what they were doing JUST by going out on a vacation.

Unfortunately, they got caught up in something they never expected.

Sadly, this is the way it goes. Obviously it was covered up and made to LOOK like 17,024 situations happened... when ONE and ONLY ONE thing happened.

Sure, there are some things that need answers, but in essence, there was pretty much ONLY one idea of what happened, so the conspiracy theorys start. You will NEVER close the book on this because NOBODY checks FACTS. The REFUSAL to check FACTS only leads to more and more unsubstantiated ideas.

I LOVE this board. I don't get here much, but when I do, I ALWAYS find it interesting. At least I am able to dispel false claims and have fun doing it. I consider all of you friends and enjoy good banter and mild confrontation. Although I pretty much know what happened here, once in a while I may show up.

Take gentle care for now. Good luck and God Bless.

-Chance
 

April 15, 2021, 01:28:50 AM
Reply #43
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Paf


Yeah, we all have our theories and it's no different than anybody else...

The TENT is where it all started, we agree on that?

NINE people. All dead, We agree on that?

Facts are facts, we agree on that?

Everybody was hanging out in that tent. There is talk that two were running around outside, but does that matter? All died. We agree on that?

What we can also agree on is that something happened at that tent. That is where everyone there went haywire, agreed?

Okay... So what ACTUALLY happened there?

Let's REMOVE the paranormal because that is NOT provable. We can disagree with that, but let's just PRETEND that the BIGFOOT, the YETI, The Loch Ness Monster Aliens or Elvis DID NOT go in there and do some damage, scare people who generally don't scare easily, and monsters who eat peoples tongues and suck out their eyeballs don't really exist. Agreed?

Something happened to these nine people, who are, granted, young... but have better sense than most of us do with hiking and skiing than we do. They have been trekking these areas for a good amount of time and know their stuff, Agreed?

They placed their tent on a grade that would NOT create a problem with an avalanche. At that grade, IF an avalanche were to happen they would have never heard it anyway. Why was the tent STILL there? Unbroken with BOTH poles STILL planted and straight up to the sky? They were not stupid, that grade would NEVER create an avalanche and everybody knows it.

When the tent was found, most of their clothes were removed to dry out from the sweat. They were safe and DINNER was on the floor for everyone to eat. When the investigators showed up, dinner was STILL there on the floor, along with their boots, socks, warm clothes, etc... so they had to leave quick, agreed?

They were in such a panic, they cut holes in the side of the tent, but obvious is obvious... THEY DID NOT RUN once outside of the tent. They did NOT run down the hill as some may propose. THEY WALKED.

That's right. THEY WALKED down to the valley... 1 mile in the snow, no boots, no warm clothes, many with just socks, some without socks. WHY???


For me, there's an explaination holding up with all that : winds.
The wind would not just have blown over the tent, but it came in. Catabatic winds (the weather report can't account against that, as those winds are not the one you can predict ; but it can accound FOR it with the very quick fall of temperature.) blowing the tent from inside, pushing the hikers to make some cut in the fabric to avoid the tent to fly away. (Have you ever try to fly a kit with a hole ? :p )
A smart moove.
They didn't have time to dress up if they wanted to save the tent : but once the tent is under the snow, there's no reason to panic anymore (or fewer, anyways). They get down to the tree, where they start a fire to keep warm. Those winds were not supposed to last after sun rise (if they last that long), so our experienced hikers stayed calm. Catabatics winds make the air dry : and -20°C with quite dry air is not that cold that you can't walk in the snow -cold enough to stay dry under your feet- in socks and light gear. (I've done it at -40, living north of Canada ! ;) They would have been quite cold (because of the wind), but they did make a fire quickly so i'm not surpised they didn't suffer right away from it.

I would ad the sight of sprites or halo in some distance in the sky, above the clouds that were over Dyatlov pass the morning. Somebody has his camera in a pocket ; they shoot some pictures (later known as Zolotaryov's).

What happen after, it's more difficult. But : injuries from fire, maybe from falling from the tree for sure, and then I think more people were at the den. And the den collapsed, as somebody explained in another thread, maybe from avalanche, maybe from human activity, fireball, IDK. For me, Rustik, Zina and Dyatlov are the last surviving ones, leaving behind the collapsed den and trying to reach (again, because I think somebody made a trip before for clothes) the tent for food.


 

April 15, 2021, 07:49:23 AM
Reply #44
Offline

Dona



Quote: " You will NEVER close the book on this because NOBODY checks FACTS. The REFUSAL to check FACTS only leads to more and more unsubstantiated ideas."


Well, the  FACTS show that they were all lying down when they were injured..Probably while sleeping in the tent..
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 08:04:23 AM by Dona »