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Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: And we've got no radio  (Read 2896 times)

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July 27, 2020, 02:21:01 PM
Reply #30
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sarapuk

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1958 Central Sayan - this is the trek when Dubnina was wounded
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1958-Central-Sayan

1958 Altai
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1958-Altai

1957 Northern Ural - see the last photo, Nikolay Tregubov watching a girl with a firearm. Zina is to his left. Somebody seems to be shielding himself from the rifle.
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1957-Northern-Ural

1956 Chusovaya
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1956-Chusovaya

There might be more...
https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlov-group-members-treks

Nice photos. I notice that the preferred choice of Firearm appears to be a Rifle of the Hunting variety. 
DB
 

July 27, 2020, 02:30:26 PM
Reply #31
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sarapuk

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1958 Central Sayan - this is the trek when Dubnina was wounded
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1958-Central-Sayan

1958 Altai
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1958-Altai

1957 Northern Ural - see the last photo, Nikolay Tregubov watching a girl with a firearm. Zina is to his left. Somebody seems to be shielding himself from the rifle.
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1957-Northern-Ural

1956 Chusovaya
https://dyatlovpass.com/gallery-1956-Chusovaya

You have correct understand what this is say about.
1) What it says here is not about "rifle" (rifled combat weapon), it says about amateur hunting smoothbore weapon, caliber "16", "12" or "20". In the USSR rifled weapons for civilian purposes were allowed only for professional hunters by special permission and were strictly controlled (had be controlled!) by the police. Mansi hunters belonged to this category, but they were allocated 5.45 mm rifles (this is slightly less than .223) with soft lead bullet, similar to those used in sport shooting
2. Travelers Groups took hunting guns with them:
- if there were amateur hunters,
- if the allowable backpack loading allowed it,
- if there were hunting objects (mostly birds) in the travel area.
In any other case, they could only take the shotgun as ornament in the photos, just like the ice breakers for that area of travel. In the Subpolar Urals, ice-axe could be used for its intended purpose, in the North Urals there was no such necessity, except for exceptional cases which could not be foreseen in advance. The best use for it in Dyatlov's group was that they kept rope from the tent.
3. Many photos of such travels show that groups of travelers used gun for salute in honor of climbing to ordinary peak or passing pass.

There might be more...
https://dyatlovpass.com/dyatlov-group-members-treks

Teddy, unfortunately, the usual digest and/or translation article contains many different vague formulations and shifts in concepts and terms as well. I will try write review of this article little later. It should be in the style of what I wrote about "34 photos".

Informative as usual.   In England we can use the word Rifle to refer to any type of long barreled gun.  By looking at the photos the preferred Firearm was an hunting type. They could be used for hunting wild animals or self protection from wild animals.  So Iam still surprised that the Dyatlov Group didnt take a Firearm with them.
DB
 

July 27, 2020, 02:34:31 PM
Reply #32
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sarapuk

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I will add one more reason for having a rifle during a hike - protection from bears - generally the only animal that is not much afraid of humans. Of course to do it some of the member must hold valid license for it.
In Greenland or Svalbard it is highly recommended by local governments to have rifle during hikes (sure, polar bears are much more dangerous than brown one).
So if someone could take rifle and the backpack was still not too heavy it is nothing strange with having a rifle on a hike, same as is nothing strange with not having a one :)

From the hikes listed by Teddy 4 of 5 was during period when bears are awaken; January/February is a hibernation time and the risk to meet with bear is very low so this is one of reason why to not take rifle for a winter hike.

Its true that January / February is a low risk time to encounter Bears or indeed many dangerous wild animals. But its also worth noting that Siberian Bears and such like can be very aggressive if woken during hibernation.  They can go on the rampage so to speak. So I would definitely want a Firearm on such travels.
DB
 

July 27, 2020, 03:42:33 PM
Reply #33
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beak


It's what's missing here. If the Finnish knives went awol then they won't be the only things to have disappeared. I'm 99.9% certain that "Zol" would have had a sidearm about him at the very least (everyone leaving the army takes stuff with them). Much was made about Zina being "not sexually active". No such declaration was made about Lyudmila. Why? (Unless I've missed it). Alcohol : was there any or not? Smokes? The other reason to go out of the tent would be to smoke. Zina's ex-bf was amongst them. This is probably the best "cleanup" operation in history.This couldn't be any more difficult to solve. Wrt radio then I would assume that the people in Ushma or Vishay would have a set. One of the youtube videos I saw mentioned a rifle. But that's youtubers for you. I still think that Lyudmila is central to this. Putting weather phenomenon to one side then we're looking at murder. There must have been one hell of a reason. LD sex with high ranking Soviet official hence the missing tongue? Why didn't Dyatlov share the route plans? That's a cardinal sin (seriously). He must have known that something bad might happen - hence tried to keep their position secret - but from whom? As far as we know then he only did so while they were among the Blinov group etc(in Ushma and Vishay). And he was agitated. Perfectly executed cleanup and still holding today as it did back in 1959. Hats off to 'em. This whole thing is utterly bonkers. They all knew something was wrong. Pitching the tent where they did made somebody else's job a whole lot more difficult. If they had pitched down by the treeline then "the they" could have got their target (sorry but I'm going with LD here) without so much collateral damage. Which is why they pitched there in the first place. Dyatlov just didn't realise the magnitude/force of those who were chasing one of them. Question is whether it was "Zol" or Dyatlov who decided where to pitch. 50/50. There were 2 "on point" before things happened. "Zol" being one of them. "Zol" would definitely want to avoid treeline -whatever his intent (primarily defence).
 

July 27, 2020, 04:47:28 PM
Reply #34
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beak


It's what's missing here. If the Finnish knives went awol then they won't be the only things to have disappeared. I'm 99.9% certain that "Zol" would have had a sidearm about him at the very least (everyone leaving the army takes stuff with them). Much was made about Zina being "not sexually active". No such declaration was made about Lyudmila. Why? (Unless I've missed it). Alcohol : was there any or not? Smokes? The other reason to go out of the tent would be to smoke. Zina's ex-bf was amongst them. This is probably the best "cleanup" operation in history.This couldn't be any more difficult to solve. Wrt radio then I would assume that the people in Ushma or Vishay would have a set. One of the youtube videos I saw mentioned a rifle. But that's youtubers for you. I still think that Lyudmila is central to this. Putting weather phenomenon to one side then we're looking at murder. There must have been one hell of a reason. LD sex with high ranking Soviet official hence the missing tongue? Why didn't Dyatlov share the route plans? That's a cardinal sin (seriously). He must have known that something bad might happen - hence tried to keep their position secret - but from whom? As far as we know then he only did so while they were among the Blinov group etc(in Ushma and Vishay). And he was agitated. Perfectly executed cleanup and still holding today as it did back in 1959. Hats off to 'em. This whole thing is utterly bonkers. They all knew something was wrong. Pitching the tent where they did made somebody else's job a whole lot more difficult. If they had pitched down by the treeline then "the they" could have got their target (sorry but I'm going with LD here) without so much collateral damage. Which is why they pitched there in the first place. Dyatlov just didn't realise the magnitude/force of those who were chasing one of them. Question is whether it was "Zol" or Dyatlov who decided where to pitch. 50/50. There were 2 "on point" before things happened. "Zol" being one of them. "Zol" would definitely want to avoid treeline -whatever his intent (primarily defence).
 

July 27, 2020, 04:50:23 PM
Reply #35
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beak


It's what's missing here. If the Finnish knives went awol then they won't be the only things to have disappeared. I'm 99.9% certain that "Zol" would have had a sidearm about him at the very least (everyone leaving the army takes stuff with them). Much was made about Zina being "not sexually active". No such declaration was made about Lyudmila. Why? (Unless I've missed it). Alcohol : was there any or not? Smokes? The other reason to go out of the tent would be to smoke. Zina's ex-bf was amongst them. This is probably the best "cleanup" operation in history.This couldn't be any more difficult to solve. Wrt radio then I would assume that the people in Ushma or Vishay would have a set. One of the youtube videos I saw mentioned a rifle. But that's youtubers for you. I still think that Lyudmila is central to this. Putting weather phenomenon to one side then we're looking at murder. There must have been one hell of a reason. LD sex with high ranking Soviet official hence the missing tongue? Why didn't Dyatlov share the route plans? That's a cardinal sin (seriously). He must have known that something bad might happen - hence tried to keep their position secret - but from whom? As far as we know then he only did so while they were among the Blinov group etc(in Ushma and Vishay). And he was agitated. Perfectly executed cleanup and still holding today as it did back in 1959. Hats off to 'em. This whole thing is utterly bonkers. They all knew something was wrong. Pitching the tent where they did made somebody else's job a whole lot more difficult. If they had pitched down by the treeline then "the they" could have got their target (sorry but I'm going with LD here) without so much collateral damage. Which is why they pitched there in the first place. Dyatlov just didn't realise the magnitude/force of those who were chasing one of them. Question is whether it was "Zol" or Dyatlov who decided where to pitch. 50/50. There were 2 "on point" before things happened. "Zol" being one of them. "Zol" would definitely want to avoid treeline -whatever his intent (primarily defence).
 

July 27, 2020, 04:51:54 PM
Reply #36
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beak


Why are my messages getting deleted? Have I said something wrong?
 

July 27, 2020, 04:53:04 PM
Reply #37
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beak


Ah got it. Page count.
 

July 27, 2020, 05:05:10 PM
Reply #38
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beak


If "Zol" managed to take a few with him (sidearm or fists) then they would need to go and cleanup even better. Face it. They're gonna have to go through the kit list of every single person (soldier) that went there and recover it all (except they don't know what they're looking for). They had 3 weeks to accomplish this. Did they have accurate "kit lists" in those days? Except they missed the gaiter. It's just a piece of material and who's gonna spot that?. That would explain why they closed off the area for three years while they hunted for bullets/magazines/rifles/bodies/shells etc that don't belong there at that time.
 

July 27, 2020, 05:24:24 PM
Reply #39
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beak


A rifle butt will cause those injuries. Not uncommon.
 

July 27, 2020, 07:13:35 PM
Reply #40
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Spygirl 1


The autopsy of Lyudmila (found on this site) states she was not sexually active.
 

July 28, 2020, 04:14:45 AM
Reply #41
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PJ


Its true that January / February is a low risk time to encounter Bears or indeed many dangerous wild animals. But its also worth noting that Siberian Bears and such like can be very aggressive if woken during hibernation.  They can go on the rampage so to speak. So I would definitely want a Firearm on such travels.

I did many hikes in Ural, Altai and other regions where brown bears habitat, some of the hikes during early spring so in a time when bears waking up from hibernation, I never carry any firearm with me, never feel that I need it for any reason. Maybe I am careless but I am not surprised that Dyatlov Group didn't take a one in the middle of winter, it will be just additional weight and completely useless.
 

July 28, 2020, 02:49:36 PM
Reply #42
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sarapuk

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Its true that January / February is a low risk time to encounter Bears or indeed many dangerous wild animals. But its also worth noting that Siberian Bears and such like can be very aggressive if woken during hibernation.  They can go on the rampage so to speak. So I would definitely want a Firearm on such travels.

I did many hikes in Ural, Altai and other regions where brown bears habitat, some of the hikes during early spring so in a time when bears waking up from hibernation, I never carry any firearm with me, never feel that I need it for any reason. Maybe I am careless but I am not surprised that Dyatlov Group didn't take a one in the middle of winter, it will be just additional weight and completely useless.

I can see your point of view and its relevant. I guess its down to each individual if they feel safe or not by carrying a Firearm. But in Expeditions to the wild places its not uncommon for at least one Member of the Expedition to carry a Firearm. I was reading about Bear attacks and these days many people swear by the use of Bear Spray as protection.
DB
 

July 28, 2020, 04:43:44 PM
Reply #43
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beak


Quote
The autopsy of Lyudmila (found on this site) states she was not sexually active.

Thank you for the correction. It's difficult to "hold" everything in memory about this.  The fact that she wasn't sexually active doesn't mean that she didn't have an enemy for different reasons. If it wasn't her then I'm reasonably convinced that somebody in that group did. She was the most argumentative and kept saying that "something would get better in a few days" - but we don't know what that is/was.

Given everything they were carrying then a rifle and a few rounds doesn't represent much extra weight. But it would need to be at the ready (i.e. not rolled up inside the tent or whatever). And no rifle is visible in any of the photos. Is there a reason why they would need to secret such a weapon (from the outside world or perhaps each other)? I sincerely promise that I'm trying to get/keep up to speed on everything that is related to this. I'm not doing a very good job though - I will admit. The photo by this site owner shows a rifle but that wasn't this trip - was it? (really sorry : I have a day job too).

I think if we had answers to all of the questions then we might collectively shrug our shoulders and say : "oh - is that it then?". You know : an anticlimax - as these things often are. Then we can move on to MH370 (NO CHANCE).
 

July 30, 2020, 04:50:50 PM
Reply #44
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sarapuk

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Quote
The autopsy of Lyudmila (found on this site) states she was not sexually active.

Thank you for the correction. It's difficult to "hold" everything in memory about this.  The fact that she wasn't sexually active doesn't mean that she didn't have an enemy for different reasons. If it wasn't her then I'm reasonably convinced that somebody in that group did. She was the most argumentative and kept saying that "something would get better in a few days" - but we don't know what that is/was.

Given everything they were carrying then a rifle and a few rounds doesn't represent much extra weight. But it would need to be at the ready (i.e. not rolled up inside the tent or whatever). And no rifle is visible in any of the photos. Is there a reason why they would need to secret such a weapon (from the outside world or perhaps each other)? I sincerely promise that I'm trying to get/keep up to speed on everything that is related to this. I'm not doing a very good job though - I will admit. The photo by this site owner shows a rifle but that wasn't this trip - was it? (really sorry : I have a day job too).

I think if we had answers to all of the questions then we might collectively shrug our shoulders and say : "oh - is that it then?". You know : an anticlimax - as these things often are. Then we can move on to MH370 (NO CHANCE).

They say every picture tells a story. The photos of the 'Dyatlov Group Expedition' seem to show a bunch of young people enjoying themselves together. The Dyatlov Mystery is one hell of a mystery, thats why it hasnt been solved.  YET.
DB
 

July 30, 2020, 05:35:46 PM
Reply #45
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beak


Quote
The photos of the 'Dyatlov Group Expedition' seem to show a bunch of young people enjoying themselves together.

Yes at times. But there is a weight of evidence to suggest that all was not 100% well (list of things which centre around Lyudmila which just got worse as the days progressed). Which is why I think that if you were to bring just one of them back to life then Lyudmila would be the one to best explain what was going wrong days before the fateful night (whenever that actually was). Did someone else effect the makeshift "bedding" in the ravine to make it look as though the rav4 were at least trying to survive?
 

July 31, 2020, 02:54:05 PM
Reply #46
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sarapuk

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Quote
The photos of the 'Dyatlov Group Expedition' seem to show a bunch of young people enjoying themselves together.

Yes at times. But there is a weight of evidence to suggest that all was not 100% well (list of things which centre around Lyudmila which just got worse as the days progressed). Which is why I think that if you were to bring just one of them back to life then Lyudmila would be the one to best explain what was going wrong days before the fateful night (whenever that actually was). Did someone else effect the makeshift "bedding" in the ravine to make it look as though the rav4 were at least trying to survive?

Well human nature being what it is sometimes you have an argument even when things seem to be going well. But surely no one can think that the Dyatlov Group argued to such an extent that it eventually led to what happened. It seems highly unlikely. And no human could inflict some of those extraordinary injuries.
DB