September 16, 2021, 01:47:31 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: 1079 Igor Pavlov and Teodora Hadjiyska  (Read 1776 times)

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January 31, 2021, 12:56:17 PM
Reply #30

tekumze

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« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 01:01:05 PM by tekumze »

January 31, 2021, 12:57:22 PM
Reply #31

tekumze

Guest
Dear Ziljoe,
Teddy asked us to start a serious debate after February 2nd. I think it is right that we stick to this. And then...

January 31, 2021, 01:03:55 PM
Reply #32
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Ziljoe


Dear Ziljoe,
Teddy asked us to start a serious debate after February 2nd. I think it is right that we stick to this. And then...

No problem tekumze. I was just interested if you had your own theory. I wasn't looking to analyze Teddy's theory. I'll wait for that.

January 31, 2021, 01:17:43 PM
Reply #33

tekumze

Guest
Eurocentric  thumb1
The format has been spinning in a circle since the emergence of human civilization. More or less.

January 31, 2021, 01:28:39 PM
Reply #34
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Iam glad I havnt attempted to read the book so far. I will wait till its officially launched which we were told was February 1st.
DB

January 31, 2021, 01:56:58 PM
Reply #35
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Investigator


I saw the Amazon preview of the book and in it there is a graphic in blue which shows the positions of the bodies when found, etc.  It makes it appear that the "returning three" had gotten very close to the tent before succumbing to hypothermia/unconsciousness.  And it shows that other than the very top of the mountain, there was basically fairly dense forest all about.  Is that what you are contending or is the graphic just an approximation?  By contrast, on one of the DPI sites, someone posted this reconstruction a while back:  https://imgur.com/a/2vEc4oH
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 03:20:31 PM by Investigator »

January 31, 2021, 11:53:02 PM
Reply #36

tekumze

Guest
Dear Investigator,
I was at the DPI venue this year. And I have to say that the forest is (not very pronounced at all) along the entire slope (of course about 1 km from the point where the tent is supposed to be). But there is no forest at the top of the mountain (I would call it a hill). It should be noted that this mountain is also much less steep than I imagined. There could not have been any avalanche there either in theory.
Above all, this is an area that was completely different for me than I expected.
Most of all, I was surprised by the "ravine" which is approx. 100 m from the cedar. There is no ravine at all, but just a plain stream. Where even if you want you have nowhere to fall. Above all you get the feeling that nothing can happen in such an area. You feel safe.

February 01, 2021, 12:15:26 AM
Reply #37

tekumze

Guest
Sorry, mistake. I was there last summer.  grin1

February 01, 2021, 02:56:18 AM
Reply #38
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GKM


Personally I do not believe a "speed read" is the best way to read this book. When I began reading the book I was intending to do the same but abandoned it pretty quickly. I decided it was more beneficial to read at a steady pace and absorb every word. That still did not stop me from having to reverse back a couple of pages ever so often. I actually intend to read it again just for my own benefit but I really do not believe it will change my mind about the book.

February 01, 2021, 03:49:38 AM
Reply #39

tekumze

Guest
Dear GKM,
I'm happy for you. Could you tell me what your interpretation of the tragic event was before the book enlightened you? And did your previous opinion in any way match the explanation in the book that finally satisfied you?

February 01, 2021, 04:41:19 AM
Reply #40
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GKM


Tekumze, if you read all the posts I made on this forum, and I cannot blame you if you decided not to waste time on that,  I always had trouble with the issue of clothing. I never believed ANYONE would walk off into a sub zero polar night dressed as they were. I considered murder but could never come up with a motive. I never put any stock into the "photos of something in the night sky". I felt they were unimportant or just defects on the film. The footprints set off no alarm bells because I never believed they camped on the ridge. At this point I faltered. I simply could not make sense out of anything about the dead bodies and where they were found. So I guess I was open to any theory that made logical sense but until the book none of them did. For me it put a check mark in every box. I hope that doesn't sound like a cop out but, in all honesty, I had no personal theory about their deaths.

February 01, 2021, 05:32:22 AM
Reply #41

tekumze

Guest
Dear GKM, thanks for the explanation.
Far from thinking you're a cop.
You seem like an educated person to me (by that I don’t mean formal education).
Above all, you try to understand life as it is and you do not give yourself the illusion that life owes you something.
The only thing I would say is that sometimes it happens to you (just like me) that you start believing in something because you want to.
But that’s another story and there’s nothing wrong with it.
It is an evolutionarily more complex setting of the human brain. But we won't talk about it.  thanky1

February 01, 2021, 09:43:16 AM
Reply #42
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Investigator


Dear Investigator,
I was at the DPI venue this year. And I have to say that the forest is (not very pronounced at all) along the entire slope (of course about 1 km from the point where the tent is supposed to be). But there is no forest at the top of the mountain (I would call it a hill). It should be noted that this mountain is also much less steep than I imagined. There could not have been any avalanche there either in theory.
Above all, this is an area that was completely different for me than I expected.
Most of all, I was surprised by the "ravine" which is approx. 100 m from the cedar. There is no ravine at all, but just a plain stream. Where even if you want you have nowhere to fall. Above all you get the feeling that nothing can happen in such an area. You feel safe.

I've seen Youtube videos of people walking that mountain, supposedly taking the same route that the group did down to around where they started the fire, and of course the photos from that time (and the Discovery Channel documentary).  There are a lot of rocky protrusions, apparently, but not much tree cover (as you said, "no very pronounced at all"), and yes, it's not steep.  Now when the rescuers took photos, the "den" apparently needed to be dug out and was deep under the snow, the point being that we don't know if there was a snow drift the "ravine 4" fell through, nor do we know what injuries were sustained, if any, prior to the apparent fall at least some of the 4 took onto the rocky creek.  I think it's also important to point out that the group did a whole lot of work that night, after leaving the tent.  The fire was said to be robust, lasting 1 to 2 hours, and there was a large amount of tree branches scattered throughout that entire area (from the fire to the "den"), along with what they did with the "den" itself, and however much work it took to secure the tent.  To me this is important because when you aren't dressed well and you do that much work under those conditions, as soon as you stop, you may feel overheated for a few minutes but then you get super cold (I experimented with this when I was much younger and shoveled snow), so instead of "paradoxical undressing," it seems that after they started the fire (which apparently was not easy, with lots of used match sticks around the area), they then realized it wasn't keeping them warm enough (and also it seems like they recognized that the winds were the major problem, hence the need for the "den").  Simply, they had a plan but it was the wrong one (they should have taken the blankets and found a spot fairly protected from the winds and huddled together wrapped in the blankets), though there's no way to know for sure if any plan would have worked.  I think Zina had this thought, blamed Igor (read the diaries), and decided to go back to tent.  Slodobin and Igor then decided to go after her, to try and get her to come back, but it was far too late, in terms of hypothermia.  They didn't have much evidence of frostbite on their bodies, which is also consistent with my notion about working too much under those conditions wearing the clothes they had on, but while you are working hard you feel fine.  The problem is you can only do so much before you lose energy and have to stop, and that's when the situation becomes so dangerous.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 12:44:01 PM by Investigator »

February 01, 2021, 11:57:37 AM
Reply #43

tekumze

Guest
I would like to hear a comment on the book from Vladimir Borzenkov - WAB. He has not been present on the forum for quite some time. I hope everything is fine with his health. And that the reason for the absence is somewhere else.