October 25, 2021, 02:02:59 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: The Newspaper  (Read 2228 times)

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January 15, 2021, 12:40:54 AM
Reply #30

DAXXY

Guest
They had various pre-planned precautionary items.  Pocket knife, rolled up newspaper, onion for anti-bacterial use, Wire and silk ribbon for rabbit snares, boxes of matches, spare pieces of cord, a ball of thread, pieces of newspaper, a compass,
 

January 15, 2021, 04:06:21 PM
Reply #31
Offline

cz


I agree, DAXXY. However, in this fateful night, they also lacked some crucial items, clothing first and foremost, which I believe would have had priority if any serious planning for a foray into the icy dark had occurred before the events started to unfold. The whole trip was of course well planned and prepared so that I tend to believe that they always had some useful items stored in whatever clothing they were wearing at any time. And, yes, perhaps they were also able to take something (like the matches or the flashlight found on the ridge), but not enough to survive and they certainly knew that.
 

January 15, 2021, 06:05:27 PM
Reply #32

DAXXY

Guest
I don't think they were going with the idea of needing to survive.  (That may be why they didn't survive) They were comfortable how they were.  I think the leaders got them out of the tent.  One leader spoke to them while the other lowered the tent and weighed it down with snow so the wind couldn't get under it.  They set off in what they had on.  Layers of clothing and layers of wool socks, I think a couple had boots (Valenki)
The ones without boots couldn't get back in to the lowered semi-buried tent and wool socks keep their insulating qualities even when wet. The trick is to not stand still but keep moving.

They weren't intending to be gone long.  Just find the 2 Yuris and return.  They were assuming they were lost not injured.  That's why the flashlights were put out, the furthest was switched on to mark the direction back.  The one at the tent was for the first person back to switch on and had a full battery in case the furthest one failed.  They all knew the 2 Yuris had gone for firewood and which direction, so they all set off on the same route. Possibly following the 2 Yuris trail down the slope.  It probably took a while to locate them at the tree.

There are classic signs of late stage hypothermia affecting the 2 Yuri's at the cedar tree.  One is the cutting off and discarding of their own clothing (Paradoxical Undressing) Another is the evidence of Pulmonary Edema (Grey Foam) on the face and mouth of Yuri Doroshenko, another sign is the burns and the bitten right hand on Yuri Krivonischenko's body due to him experiencing greatly reduced sensation.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 06:18:15 PM by DAXXY »
 

February 12, 2021, 10:12:40 AM
Reply #33

trekker

Guest
They weren't intending to be gone long.  Just find the 2 Yuris and return.  They were assuming they were lost not injured.  That's why the flashlights were put out, the furthest was switched on to mark the direction back.  The one at the tent was for the first person back to switch on and had a full battery in case the furthest one failed.  They all knew the 2 Yuris had gone for firewood and which direction, so they all set off on the same route. Possibly following the 2 Yuris trail down the slope.  It probably took a while to locate them at the tree.

I got recently familiarized this tragic incident. Actually it was Johan Gaume&Alexander M. Puzrin article of slab avalanche. I got more interested and read little more about the incident. I started to think of means of communication between tent and cedar. The distance was about 1500 m, they didn't have radios and shouting doesn't carry the distance so only means of communication was light.

If there was indeed two separate groups between tent and at cedar collecting firewood and firewood group got sudden emergency situation, they might have tried to communicate by means of light. There was one flashlight at tent, other was left to route between tent and cedar, possibly marking route back or marking hazardous place in route. Firewood collecting group got sudden emergency situation so that they were unable to go back to tent and their flashlight was left to route, only means to communicate was burning fire. They made fire, but it cannot be seen from tent. They have to climb higher ground back to the route or climb to cedar.

Branches were cut from side facing tent for clear visibility. You don't have to cut branches if you only spot towards tent, but if you want to be seen clearly to the tent, clearing the branches will help. Next you have to climb back to tree with burning stick to be seen from the tent. That would have been difficult task. You may even have to carry burning stick with your teeth, because both hands are needed to climb. Was there strange burning marks in hands, face and hair?

In any case they might have been succesful and signal to the tent group about their emergency situation and group from tent walked down to help comrades. They might even managed to simple communication. If I remember correctly, some of them was studying radio technology so morsecode was likely familiar to them. Is it possible, that they have used flashlight from tent and fire from cedar to communicate between separate groups?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 10:18:47 AM by trekker »
 

February 12, 2021, 11:08:35 AM
Reply #34
Offline

KFinn


They weren't intending to be gone long.  Just find the 2 Yuris and return.  They were assuming they were lost not injured.  That's why the flashlights were put out, the furthest was switched on to mark the direction back.  The one at the tent was for the first person back to switch on and had a full battery in case the furthest one failed.  They all knew the 2 Yuris had gone for firewood and which direction, so they all set off on the same route. Possibly following the 2 Yuris trail down the slope.  It probably took a while to locate them at the tree.

I got recently familiarized this tragic incident. Actually it was Johan Gaume&Alexander M. Puzrin article of slab avalanche. I got more interested and read little more about the incident. I started to think of means of communication between tent and cedar. The distance was about 1500 m, they didn't have radios and shouting doesn't carry the distance so only means of communication was light.

If there was indeed two separate groups between tent and at cedar collecting firewood and firewood group got sudden emergency situation, they might have tried to communicate by means of light. There was one flashlight at tent, other was left to route between tent and cedar, possibly marking route back or marking hazardous place in route. Firewood collecting group got sudden emergency situation so that they were unable to go back to tent and their flashlight was left to route, only means to communicate was burning fire. They made fire, but it cannot be seen from tent. They have to climb higher ground back to the route or climb to cedar.

Branches were cut from side facing tent for clear visibility. You don't have to cut branches if you only spot towards tent, but if you want to be seen clearly to the tent, clearing the branches will help. Next you have to climb back to tree with burning stick to be seen from the tent. That would have been difficult task. You may even have to carry burning stick with your teeth, because both hands are needed to climb. Was there strange burning marks in hands, face and hair?

In any case they might have been succesful and signal to the tent group about their emergency situation and group from tent walked down to help comrades. They might even managed to simple communication. If I remember correctly, some of them was studying radio technology so morsecode was likely familiar to them. Is it possible, that they have used flashlight from tent and fire from cedar to communicate between separate groups?

This is something I've been digesting, somewhat.  If we go by the hypothesis that the group had to leave the tent due to a unique weather related event, they knew that to keep moving was to stay alive.  They knew they would need some form of emergency shelter.  They knew their gear was still at the tent.  If they split into groups (you four build a shelter from the wind/cold, you three try to get to the tent to get our gear, we need someone to keep a fire going to signal where we all are.) In this scenario, the people who offer to keep the fire going are doing so with the knowledge that they will most likely die (by not moving around) but will be dying for the greater good of the group. 

Akselrod said that Yuri's mother asked him outright, "Did my son die a man?"  He said, "they all died heroes."

I know this is far off topic from the original post.  I apologize. 
-Ren
 

February 18, 2021, 12:50:07 PM
Reply #35
Offline

Tony


It wasn't their initial intention.  They had socks on.  The ski boots were smooth soled and stiff, no good for walking.  Wool socks keep their insulation qualities even when wet. 

 I think they left the tent, then lowered it because of the wind, by just slackening off some guy ropes.  They were expecting to find their friends quite quickly, but that didn't happen...they set up the flashlights in the snow as they searched further down the hill.  Once they got to a certain point it was not practical to go back to a collapsed tent in the dark and wind and try and get coats and boots.  So they kept searching further out..until they found the Yuris at the cedar.

With the flashlights they deliberately left the one at the tent off to conserve battery they probably went to their limit of visibility and set another. (The limit of visibility for someone returning) taking high and low ground in to account.  (Second flashlight was found switched on and depleted battery 450m down the slope).
 The idea of the one at the tent was for the first person arriving back to shine it as a light for the others returning.  Guiding them in on the last leg.  They all knew they had to climb up to the pass to get back to the tent but the flashlight would give them the direction too. They are staying connected to the tent with the flashlights not abandoning it.  The flashlights are like a rope from a lifeboat.

I would bet that this sort of stuff was in their leadership training of the day.  They didn't have flares so used flashlights.



The group, for the most part, were wearing/using Valenki (felt boot). They would have descended the slope in these Valenki and this is what was found in the tent. Important to note that Rustem (I think) was found with only one Valenki and, I think, Thibeaux-Brignolle had on a pair of Valenki. Sasha Z. was in leather shoes. Below is a video of someone descending Kholat Syakhl in Valenki.



Anyone who has walked in snow either barefoot or in socks will know that it would become near unbearable within the first few minutes. It is clear that descending the slope in socks was not planned. My feet sometimes get cold in Sorel boots with heavy winter socks. Walking 1500 meters in just socks in such extreme weather would be pain on another level.

It's also believed that Yuri D. was the last person to descend the slope. His footprints were found on top of footprints from the other group members as they walked to the forest area.
"If there exists a fact which can only be thought of as sinister. A fact which can only point to some sinister underpinning, you will never be able to think up all the non-sinister, perfectly valid explanations for that fact."
- Josiah Thomson