September 22, 2021, 06:43:34 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Theory about the rav4.  (Read 686 times)

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May 17, 2021, 08:41:23 AM
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zirconium


My theory relies on graphic details about the hikers found near the ravine. I do not intend any disrespect.

So I took a look at the scene photos and the post-mortem. Compared the positions the hikers were found in as best I could make out, to the descriptions from the autopsy reports. (It's hard for me to tell exactly what position Thibeaux-Brignolle is in in the photo, my eyes can't seem to parse the photo very well.) It looks like the injuries of Zolotaryov, Thibeaux-Brignolle, and Dubinina all correspond to where they were up against the rocks/soil of the stream. Zolotaryov's ribs on the right hand side, the side he was found laying on; Dubinina on the front of her thoracic region, which was against the ledge, and Thibeaux-Brignolle's skull, right hand side, I think that's the side that's against a smaller sort of natural ledge in the flowing water.

All this leads me to believe that three of the rav4, the aforementioned, sustained their injuries on impact with the ground (be it soil, rocks, or ice) where they were found. I.e. I don't believe anyone moved or was moved from their position after being seriously injured, but that something caused the unlucky three to forcefully collide with the ground.

I think they were thrown.

To my thinking it looks like the rav4, being the last group members alive, went and scouted around for deeper shelter in the forest (or may have scouted before the other hikers died), under the direction of Zolotaryov's military experience. He acted as if faced with an active danger, what kind I do not know, but one that would necessitate finding deeper cover. They gathered branches and ripped articles of clothing to make the seats for the den - 4 seats as at that point they were the last 4. Then, while Kolevatov was in the den, the others went back up, perhaps to gather more branches to construct a shelter, or perhaps for some other reason. Something then forcibly threw the three onto the creek. Kolevatov heard the noise, climbed out of the den, found Dubinina and Thibeaux-Brignolle unconscious, and went to comfort Zolotaryov, after which Kolevatov got hypothermia. His nose and neck could have been damaged post mortem, or could be injuries he sustained before laying down behind Zolotaryov.

Then it remains to determine what could have thrown 3 of the rav4? Something in a Siberian forest in the middle of the night that could move three adult humans through the air at near automobile speeds.

I might be missing some information. It just seems logical to me that where deep internal injuries coincide with their positions against the terrain, that they impacted more or less where they were later found. Which leads to the question of what caused so forceul an impact. (I have a couple of ideas but still want to look through the facts some more.)

May 18, 2021, 03:27:09 AM
Reply #1
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EBE


I think you may be right about the Rav4 dying where they were found. The possible natural explanation is that the den was actually below a large snow overhang, formed by dense icy snow. They dug their hiding under the overhang, which collapsed and caused their injuries.

When Zolotaryov was exhumed, the pathologist said that his injuries were caused by something pressing on him while he was laying on a hard surface (den flooring?).

Well, I have to say that when I was a kid, in winter we used to play under large snow overhangs, digging our dens there. No one was ever injured when the overhangs collapsed.. but the conditions in the ravine may have been different.

May 19, 2021, 10:08:37 PM
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zirconium


I saw the snow overhang explanation, and I guess how cold it was the snow could have frozen extra solid. It just doesn't sound right because if injured in the den, why move the bodies to a creek/why place them injury side down instead of up. And who moved them, I don't get the sense they were able to move themselves.

Just looking at the Rav4 evidence, my mind sort of went in the direction of could it have been a burst of wind (would have to be hurricane force though?) or maybe a little unconventional but a known phenomenon - then I went and looked and saw that there's already a theory for it - I'm inclined to consider the ball lightning theory. It would explain the lights in the sky (not sure if that's corroborated) as well as any singing on the trees (if that was truly observed). But there's no indication of a blast.

May 20, 2021, 11:04:30 AM
Reply #3
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Tony


I think you may be right about the Rav4 dying where they were found. The possible natural explanation is that the den was actually below a large snow overhang, formed by dense icy snow. They dug their hiding under the overhang, which collapsed and caused their injuries.

When Zolotaryov was exhumed, the pathologist said that his injuries were caused by something pressing on him while he was laying on a hard surface (den flooring?).

Well, I have to say that when I was a kid, in winter we used to play under large snow overhangs, digging our dens there. No one was ever injured when the overhangs collapsed.. but the conditions in the ravine may have been different.

While I don't think the den collapsing can be completely ruled out, I've never felt a den (or snow cave) was actually dug. In the interview of the pathologist that conducted the forensics of Zolotaryov, he concluded that the force was an instant force and not something that occurred over a longer period of time. He also concluded that the injuries did not happen post-mortem. As the original poster pointed out, it also doesn't make sense that they would be injured in the den and then dragged out and placed in the ravine on hard rocks and, possibly, running water.

To me, the bed of clothing and branches was a last ditch effort by Kolevatov to rescue both himself and friends. The other 3 were injured where they were found either by a fall or, as the original poster theorized, by wind or something else that threw them down. One oddity is the injuries to Kolevatov. The autopsy concluded that these were not post mortem and they are hard to explain. Could be that he fell or was thrown as well, but injuries weren't as significant - who knows.

It's also possible, that all four helped with the building of the bed but, in an attempt to collect more branches clothing, they fell or were thrown into the ravine. Since there was no moon until around 2:00 a.m., it's possible that they were working in complete darkness and were unable to seen anything in and around the ravine.

There is little information about the ravine. We don't even know for sure where it is and the photos do little to fully illustrate where the den is in relation to where they were found. Snow conditions can change drastically from year to year and so it's hard to know exactly the condition of the ravine on that night. I think if they had been found earlier, it would have been a lot easier to solve the mystery. But since the area had changed so much in 3 months, a lot of evidence was probably lost.
"If there exists a fact which can only be thought of as sinister. A fact which can only point to some sinister underpinning, you will never be able to think up all the non-sinister, perfectly valid explanations for that fact."
- Josiah Thomson

May 22, 2021, 04:27:04 PM
Reply #4
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Manti



It's also possible, that all four helped with the building of the bed but, in an attempt to collect more branches clothing, they fell or were thrown into the ravine. Since there was no moon until around 2:00 a.m., it's possible that they were working in complete darkness and were unable to seen anything in and around the ravine.



Even if it's a moonless night, there is light from the stars. I have tried this recently, ten to 15 minutes and your eyes adapt and you can see reasonably well on a moonless night. If the ground is covered in snow that even helps.

May 23, 2021, 02:26:22 AM
Reply #5
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Sunny



It's also possible, that all four helped with the building of the bed but, in an attempt to collect more branches clothing, they fell or were thrown into the ravine. Since there was no moon until around 2:00 a.m., it's possible that they were working in complete darkness and were unable to seen anything in and around the ravine.



Even if it's a moonless night, there is light from the stars. I have tried this recently, ten to 15 minutes and your eyes adapt and you can see reasonably well on a moonless night. If the ground is covered in snow that even helps.
no if it is snowing or clouds in the sky. Not often the stars are visible because of clouds.