December 05, 2021, 07:26:00 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: Cut up clothing  (Read 4728 times)

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April 04, 2021, 03:08:46 PM
Reply #90
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Dona


Yeah.. and the government seemed to know about it weeks before they were overdue..Someone must have told them.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 03:41:55 PM by Dona »
 

April 04, 2021, 03:15:12 PM
Reply #91
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Manti


So the Mansi find them, ski over to the nearest police station 100km away, then the authorities decide to just ignore the report? Or, they send a team to the pass, recover some of the bodies to the morgue, where they are prepared for a funeral... and then due to some mysterious reason decide to put them back on helicopters (no longer in a frozen state), and drop them back off in the mountains?


And the Mansi decide not to speak about finding the bodies again even though weeks before they went into town to file a report? Hmm..


 

April 04, 2021, 03:42:37 PM
Reply #92
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Dona


I dont know.. Someone must have told them.. They knew way too early..
 

April 05, 2021, 09:08:51 AM
Reply #93
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bergertime


None of it makes sense, does anyone know how long the RAV 4 even survived?  You can literally argue anything and bend the facts to whatever you want to prove.  But I do have a question, is there any consensus on when they last ate?  The first 5 died 6-8 after their last meal, so when did they eat last?  Lunch, Dinner or breakfast?
 

April 05, 2021, 09:23:59 AM
Reply #94
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Dona


We dont know long any of them survived, really.. They had different wounds and probably died at  different times.. depending on what exactly happened to them. I would think they ate last around 6-7 PM.. The group diary says they started to look for a place to  pitch the tent around 4 PM.. So,  they probably stopped shortly after that.. Maybe 4:30  5 PM.. Pitched tent and cooked dinner so..  I would say between 6-7 PM
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 09:57:18 AM by Dona »
 

April 05, 2021, 09:29:24 AM
Reply #95
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KFinn


None of it makes sense, does anyone know how long the RAV 4 even survived?  You can literally argue anything and bend the facts to whatever you want to prove.  But I do have a question, is there any consensus on when they last ate?  The first 5 died 6-8 after their last meal, so when did they eat last?  Lunch, Dinner or breakfast?

It is widely believed that they had dinner in the tent before the incident, or were at least in the process of getting dinner.  There was pork loin found in the tent, as well as grains from biscuits or crackers.  Because the timeframe is still debated, we don't know for certain what time this took place.  If we go by Ivanov's assessments, the tent was constructed in early evening and they would have been fully in the tent preparing for night around 7-8 pm.  The sunset at roughly 5:30 that day, with onset of darkness in half an hour, I believe.  Setting up camp could take upwards of an hour to an hour and a half. 
-Ren
 

April 05, 2021, 11:36:20 AM
Reply #96
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cennetkusu


Young people did Lapaz that day. This exhausted them a lot. And they ate. This was afternoon. After that, things get messed up. Because normally they would have to go through the Dytlov pass and camp in the forest. But something happened and they camped on the mountainside. Or they did Lapaz starting from 9 o'clock until 12 o'clock. Then they ate and rested until 1 or 2 o'clock. It had 2-3 hours to get dark. Something unusual must have happened during this 2-3 hour period. And they camped not in the forest, but on the mountain slope. Because the area between Lapaz and tent is only 2 km. Why are 9 smart and experienced young people not camping next to Lapaz, but only 2 km ahead and camping on the mountainside ??? There is no answer to this !!! So their first target for camping was definitely not on the mountain slope
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

April 05, 2021, 12:21:18 PM
Reply #97
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Manti


Food was found in the tent but I have read that only one of the "loin" pieces was eaten, the others were intact. Likewise "rusks" were found but maybe they didn't start eating them. And remains of dried / frozen porridge in a mug, which might be from a previous day and they just didn't clean the mug yet.

So it is possible that they didn't eat in the tent on the slope, only prepared to. And then their last meal 6-8 hours before would have been down in the Auspiya valley, perhaps breakfast or lunch. So we don't know. Likewise with the time their watches stopped, we don't know if it's AM or PM. The whole incident is often assumed to have happened in the dark, after they had dinner in the tent.

I think it's equally likely to have happened in daylight...
 

April 05, 2021, 12:32:17 PM
Reply #98
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Dona


Young people did Lapaz that day. This exhausted them a lot. And they ate. This was afternoon. After that, things get messed up. Because normally they would have to go through the Dytlov pass and camp in the forest. But something happened and they camped on the mountainside. Or they did Lapaz starting from 9 o'clock until 12 o'clock. Then they ate and rested until 1 or 2 o'clock. It had 2-3 hours to get dark. Something unusual must have happened during this 2-3 hour period. And they camped not in the forest, but on the mountain slope. Because the area between Lapaz and tent is only 2 km. Why are 9 smart and experienced young people not camping next to Lapaz, but only 2 km ahead and camping on the mountainside ??? There is no answer to this !!! So their first target for camping was definitely not on the mountain slope

I think they would have used up any daylight that was left.. and I think the route back wasnt the same route they took.. so maybe its where it is because of that..
 

April 05, 2021, 12:42:27 PM
Reply #99
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Dona




I think it's equally likely to have happened in daylight...
[/quote]

On the 31st. the group diary has an entry saying dinner was ready in the tent.. So, I think they did eat around that time..
 

April 05, 2021, 12:54:40 PM
Reply #100
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KFinn


None of it makes sense, does anyone know how long the RAV 4 even survived?  You can literally argue anything and bend the facts to whatever you want to prove.  But I do have a question, is there any consensus on when they last ate?  The first 5 died 6-8 after their last meal, so when did they eat last?  Lunch, Dinner or breakfast?

Something to possibly consider.  The Rav 4 had various pieces of clothing that had been cut from Doroshenko and Krivonischenko.  Doroshenko's livor mortis was fixed on his back side, and he had been turned face up when the clothing was cut off.   Livor mortis becomes fixed approximately 6 hours after death, a little more slowly in freezing temperatures.  This does indicate that the Rav 4 were alive at the very least, 6 hours after the death of Doroshenko.
-Ren
 

April 05, 2021, 12:55:00 PM
Reply #101
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cennetkusu


Food was found in the tent but I have read that only one of the "loin" pieces was eaten, the others were intact. Likewise "rusks" were found but maybe they didn't start eating them. And remains of dried / frozen porridge in a mug, which might be from a previous day and they just didn't clean the mug yet.

So it is possible that they didn't eat in the tent on the slope, only prepared to. And then their last meal 6-8 hours before would have been down in the Auspiya valley, perhaps breakfast or lunch. So we don't know. Likewise with the time their watches stopped, we don't know if it's AM or PM. The whole incident is often assumed to have happened in the dark, after they had dinner in the tent.

I think it's equally likely to have happened in daylight...
If it was daytime, the air temperature would be above 0 degrees. They were not going to do a lot of work to make a fire near the cedar tree. And they wouldn't dig a cave in the snow to protect themselves from the cold. And most importantly, they wouldn't be in a hurry to get back to the tent. All this shows that it is not the day but the night. And very likely they had enough time after the Lapaz and the meal. Why would they use this time on a cold windy mountain slope just 2 km away ??? If they have time, they can go down to the forest. If they don't have time, then they stay with Lapaz.
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

April 05, 2021, 03:33:39 PM
Reply #102
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Manti


If it was daytime, the air temperature would be above 0 degrees. They were not going to do a lot of work to make a fire near the cedar tree. And they wouldn't dig a cave in the snow to protect themselves from the cold. And most importantly, they wouldn't be in a hurry to get back to the tent. All this shows that it is not the day but the night. And very likely they had enough time after the Lapaz and the meal. Why would they use this time on a cold windy mountain slope just 2 km away ??? If they have time, they can go down to the forest. If they don't have time, then they stay with Lapaz.
Well this is from their diary on 30.Jan:
Quote
Weather: temperature in the morning - 17 С
 day  - 13 С
 night  - 26 С.
And it probably only got colder the next day. So unless you mean Fahrenheît it was below zero during daytime too.

By the way, did they have a thermometer? The temperatures they recorded seem accurate. Current averages for January in Ivdel are -14C (day) to -24C (night).


 

April 05, 2021, 04:30:43 PM
Reply #103
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Investigator


...Why would they use this time on a cold windy mountain slope just 2 km away ??? If they have time, they can go down to the forest. If they don't have time, then they stay with Lapaz.

Not sure exactly what you are asking, but from what I understand, they took the wrong route after setting up the Lapaz, so it took longer than expected.  Also, the plan apparently was to spend that night without doing too much work, including using the stove, so that they could quickly ski down the slope in the morning.  Going to the Lapaz that night (let's assume the tent was at risk of collapsing and they secured it, and now they need to go somewhere) makes no sense, because they have plenty of matches and going to the tree line is much easier (and they apparently thought it would be relatively easy to survive with a fire and "den" there).  They could have taken their blankets with them to the tree line, even if their boots and heavy coats were frozen, so the key thing is that it was a bad plan, which is certainly not especially unusual in these kinds of situations.
 

April 06, 2021, 08:45:35 AM
Reply #104
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cennetkusu


When the young people were in Lapaz, if they had enough time, they would go to the forest and set up camp. If they did not have enough time, they would have to stay in Lapaz and camp there. Why would they leave Lapaz and camp on the cold windy mountain slope just 2 km away? There can be only one reason. Sudden weather change. And suddenly it gets dark. They had to camp where they had to. But smart and experienced 9 young people should not have caught such a mistake.
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

April 06, 2021, 08:54:18 AM
Reply #105
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cennetkusu


If it was daytime, the air temperature would be above 0 degrees. They were not going to do a lot of work to make a fire near the cedar tree. And they wouldn't dig a cave in the snow to protect themselves from the cold. And most importantly, they wouldn't be in a hurry to get back to the tent. All this shows that it is not the day but the night. And very likely they had enough time after the Lapaz and the meal. Why would they use this time on a cold windy mountain slope just 2 km away ??? If they have time, they can go down to the forest. If they don't have time, then they stay with Lapaz.
Well this is from their diary on 30.Jan:
Quote
Weather: temperature in the morning - 17 С
 day  - 13 С
 night  - 26 С.
And it probably only got colder the next day. So unless you mean Fahrenheît it was below zero during daytime too.

By the way, did they have a thermometer? The temperatures they recorded seem accurate. Current averages for January in Ivdel are -14C (day) to -24C (night).
I understand. But they had set up the tent for the night and it must have happened late in the evening or after dark. Since the construction of the tent took about 1 hour, it was probably dark after the tent was built. In other words, the event was definitely at night, in the evening .... 2-3 hours later deaths must have occurred ....
You're alone and desperate. Connect with God, you won't be alone and you're a saint.
 

April 06, 2021, 08:57:21 AM
Reply #106
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Manti


Could be.. in that case their last meal would have been lunch, probably at the labaz. Reasonable.
 

April 06, 2021, 11:21:49 AM
Reply #107
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

Its definitely a possibility that the Mansi did come across the bodies of the Dyatlov Group. And its definitely a possibility that they were too scared to say any thing.

Yes and they not only followed a Mansi trail.. they walked by a Mansi hut next to Auspiya.

Yes often overlooked but may have significance beyond its mere mentioning. Reason = It means that the Dyatlov Group were not alone on their expedition. The Mansi were near. Any Military Incidents would probably have been noticed by them. Any strange Lights in the Sky would also have probably been noticed by them. And lets not forget the Menk.
DB
 

April 06, 2021, 01:56:05 PM
Reply #108
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Dona


Maybe... Maybe Zena and Igor took the clothing off the  dead for the injured that they were caring for.. Cut them up to distribute to them..  then realized they were  dead and dying..then maybe headed for the tent..

I think the RAV4 were injured very early on.. Their hands are all too clean.. they didnt gather wood, climb a tree or do any digging.. etc..
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 02:00:11 PM by Dona »
 

April 06, 2021, 01:57:48 PM
Reply #109
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Dona


And  Alex stayed with the injured and died when Igor and Zena, Rustem never came back,