July 16, 2025, 04:53:13 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

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General Discussion / Re: So I asked AI about the topic...
« Last post by SURI on Today at 04:16:11 AM »
Zolotaryov was not the only one who went hiking with a camera, but at the time of the incident, only Zolotaryov had a camera. Here I would rather ask the question, what did he need it for? I think Zolotaryov's camera was supposed to document something completely different, so it was necessary for him to have it with him at the time of the incident.


Regarding the whole incident, these 3 points are important to me.

1) Krivonischenko's last picture
2) Slobodin's one shoe
3) Zolotaryov's camera and subsequent pictures
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General Discussion / Re: So I asked AI about the topic...
« Last post by ZuriDog on Today at 02:22:21 AM »
If they were to go get wood, I'm still missing the necessary tools and equipment and an unnecessary camera gets in the way. It is clear that for Zolotaryov, the camera was more important than anything else at this moment.

At first I wondered about the axe, it was found in the tent. Then I thought, they need to bring the wood back 1.5km, the axe would imply larger logs, too heavy to bring back. The branches they were after were dry, and not too thick - you could snap them off by hanging on them, but they also had knives.
Zolotarev hiked with his camera as is visible in some of the photos taken of him. This is another reason I think his outing to the woods was just a continuation of the day's tasks, as he practically remained in his day clothes. The cameras were to document their activity as part of the requirement for achieving their grade. So even if it gets in the way a bit it was still necessary.
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General Discussion / Re: So I asked AI about the topic...
« Last post by SURI on Today at 01:57:09 AM »
If they were to go get wood, I'm still missing the necessary tools and equipment and an unnecessary camera gets in the way. It is clear that for Zolotaryov, the camera was more important than anything else at this moment.
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General Discussion / Re: So I asked AI about the topic...
« Last post by ZuriDog on Today at 12:01:19 AM »
I like your answer. My reservations have to do with leaving the tent. We know they squabbled about repairing the tent prior to their final camp. It would be arrogance personified for anyone to knife it once, let alone twice! My thinking also goes a trek from here to location a mile from where I write and back. I imagine myself on a slope covering that cold rocky, icy ground both ways. . I imagine winter conditions. I imagine people relaxing, laughing in the tent prepping and reading the Daily Ortoten while I am far, far away fetching wood so they can be comfy. This is not the egalitarian attitude reflected in the diaries.

I prefer to think the entire cohort was together and affected by something that drove them from the tent. You are arguing that a divided group's unknown compelling force was loyalty motivated by urgency if not necessity. It is as good an idea as any, and like any it has its holes. Stalled drivers freeze in the snow suggests impulsiveness, a poor understanding of the facts, or perhaps in the DP9 case, a sublimated form of sexual bravado gone bad. What is indisputable is that Nature is indifferent and bad things happen to good people.
And I appreciate the challenges - it is making me stress test my theory!

I think context is extremely important in all this.
my opinion is that in sub-0 temperatures the firewood is much more of a necessity than a comfort or a luxury.
I grant you we may differ on that opinion, but we can't deny the group did use firewood, and that it's scarcity was significant enough to mention in the group diary.
If they use wood, and we know they did - at some point someone has to collect it, it's inescapable.
My argument is this was the perfect time to gather firewood, they have extra time, the wood is 1.5 km away and they must know the trees hold dry branches. A 1.5 km hike may sound like a lot - but remember they camped early, on any other day they would be outside hiking at this time anyway.

Also the question of group cohesiveness, I'm not denying that - but we also can't expect them to be synchronized in thought and movement at every instance. And there are documented instances to prove this, Kolevatov missed the bus to Vizhay and they were forced to wait for him to catch up - for this to happen he must have wandered away from the group at some point.. Then there's the incident of the tangerine when Luda sat alone in the tent, the argument caused by Krivonishenko when he was forced to sleep by the stove.
Then there's also another fact to consider, as united as we would like to imagine they were, there was also a 9th member, someone they knew for what .. just over a week? Someone who is a bit of a loner, not part of the group, he is older, at first they didn't want him there. As likely as the rest of the team is to stick together - what's stopping him from saying, hey you know what guys, I'm going to go out to the woods there and get some branches, who wants to come? It's safer to send two than just one right?
Lets argue it the other way, lets say yes they are perfectly bonded and work together at all times - a good team works together, but together doesn't necessarily mean the same task - splitting tasks also makes sense, one team prepares for dinner, sets up the stove etc, the other team gets wood. This way they're working together as well. Whichever way you look at it, whether bonded or not, two hikers going for wood makes sense in either scenario.

I think we have need, opportunity, and time. This is not a holiday, not a picnic, gathering wood is a task like any other, they were to earn the highest accreditation achievable, not a scout merit badge.

As to leaving the tent - my proposed reason for this is Tibo's fall, and Zolotarev's subsequent return to the tent calling for help.
Most of the prints are missing, we can't say for sure how close he got to the tent before they heard him, but the effect is the same - his call triggered a panic response from the team.
Here again I think a member of the group acted alone - and again the context is very important.
Of course if you say, who would slash a tent in sub-0 temperatures, specially when they had already had disagreements about slashing the tent.
Think about that statement! They had already slashed the tent for lesser reasons, even if it caused disagreements. My guess is, when it got too hot in the tent - someone would slash it to let in cool air. Then if it got too cold again they stuffed a bit of clothing in the hole.
Now when there's an emergency, the people inside are blind to what is outside - they don't know what is happening, they don't know if they need to respond within seconds?
The incident of the bear is important - imagine Doroshenko had been killed by that bear, imagine we were discussing what could have happened.. and someone suggests - hey, maybe he ran at it to try to scare it away. How many people would agree yes that must be the most likely explanation? Of course not, everyone would say that is ridiculous, he was no idiot, he understands what a bear is, a bear can tear a person to shreds with less effort than it takes you to open a can of coke.
Yet he did.
Now that same person - do you think he is the type to stop and ask for permission? do you think he will let a piece of cloth get in his way? When as far as he knows, a seconds delay can make all the difference?
They are preparing food, there are knives on the floor. A tent can be mended, they had done that already. Whatever is happening outside can't be reversed to easily.
He slashes the tent, the others pull him back and push him towards the back of the tent. "Are you insane? what the hell is wrong with you?". But he just does it again, and gets out this time.
This is more than enough reason to justify the conflict they had later that night.
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General Discussion / Re: So I asked AI about the topic...
« Last post by GlennM on July 15, 2025, 08:20:01 PM »
I like your answer. My reservations have to do with leaving the tent. We know they squabbled about repairing the tent prior to their final camp. It would be arrogance personified for anyone to knife it once, let alone twice! My thinking also goes a trek from here to location a mile from where I write and back. I imagine myself on a slope covering that cold rocky, icy ground both ways. . I imagine winter conditions. I imagine people relaxing, laughing in the tent prepping and reading the Daily Ortoten while I am far, far away fetching wood so they can be comfy. This is not the egalitarian attitude reflected in the diaries.

I prefer to think the entire cohort was together and affected by something that drove them from the tent. You are arguing that a divided group's unknown compelling force was loyalty motivated by urgency if not necessity. It is as good an idea as any, and like any it has its holes. Stalled drivers freeze in the snow suggests impulsiveness, a poor understanding of the facts, or perhaps in the DP9 case, a sublimated form of sexual bravado gone bad. What is indisputable is that Nature is indifferent and bad things happen to good people.
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The stove / Re: Why did they leave
« Last post by ahabmyth on July 15, 2025, 03:33:48 PM »
The stove theory and the group having to leave the tent dosnt hold up at all. 1. It had not been assembled and was found still stowed in the corner of the tent. Why - well there's a possibility that some screws or bolts were missing (it didnt come in one piece), it would have come with a piece of asbestos tape/cloth that is used to seal each part that screwed together, if this was missing you would suffer from inhaling toxic gases. 2. I have been in a smoke filled house as a kid 8yr old. Luckily it was just smoke and not fire ,we waited outside while the fire brigade checked the affected rooms for embers it turned out to be a chair and carpet that didnt catch alight. We went back into the house after about 1hr of letting the smoke disperse. 3. If there was a fire/smoke in the tent the group wouldnt slash the tent ,they were not stupid in that sense.
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General Discussion / Re: Positions of bodies
« Last post by GlennM on July 15, 2025, 11:09:08 AM »
In order to better understand the survival sequence relating to the Yuris, ascertain where the Yuris' garments ended up. Decide whether those garments were taken to preserve life or obfuscate criminal activity. Decide if placement of the remains, unburied and adjascent to a local landmark, was done for retrieval by the hikers or authorities at a later time. Does it appear likely that assasins or conspirators are involved given the obvious nauture of the findings?

I believe it would be shortsighted and abundantly selfish of the grouo to have any sub team or the DP9 leave the tent on 1079 and take all the attendant risks in order to supply creature comforts for those who remained. If firewood was the goal, then they all go to the woods ( as Teddy supposes) make camp and try their luck.  I can only imagine the hikers abandoning the tent all together because they feared for the safety of all. Choose a reason, they all have been advanced!  What is less discussed is whether IRZ's return to the tent signals that the reason they left is no longer a concern or outweighed by circumstance.
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General Discussion / Re: Positions of bodies
« Last post by amashilu on July 15, 2025, 08:17:49 AM »
I cant agree with others being responsible for all the deaths. Noise travels in this environment night or day and surely would have been noticed. Also no other evidence was found other than the nines prints. Looking at the creek after after recent snow its easy to believe the many perils that lie just beneath the surface. Being found under 13ft of snow this would qualify for the 4 being found the way they were.

Looked at from the perspective of the 2 Yuris and the Ravine4 having died elsewhere than where they were found does not necessarily mean that they were murdered by others. It could also mean that the last three (Rustem, Zina, and Igor) positioned them respectfully.
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General Discussion / Re: Positions of bodies
« Last post by ahabmyth on July 15, 2025, 03:33:13 AM »
The two Yuris probably died after using not very successful bodyheat and this is why they were found in the condition and positions they were.
I cant agree with others being responsible for all the deaths. Noise travels in this environment night or day and surely would have been noticed. Also no other evidence was found other than the nines prints. Looking at the creek after after recent snow its easy to believe the many perils that lie just beneath the surface. Being found under 13ft of snow this would qualify for the 4 being found the way they were.
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General Discussion / Re: The Four
« Last post by ahabmyth on July 15, 2025, 02:07:30 AM »
 
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