August 07, 2022, 09:44:17 PM
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Author Topic: Bathing in alcohol - fact or fiction?  (Read 1154 times)

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February 04, 2022, 12:07:48 AM
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Manti


There are several accounts (maybe there is only one.. just quoted by others?) that say morgue staff and those present at the autopsies were made to take a bath in a vat of alcohol.

This always seemed bizarre to me and I don't know what purpose it can serve. The more I look into it the stranger it seems... Not only does alcohol dry out the skin, thus increasing the possibility of infections via superficial cracks in the skin, it is also poisonous in large quantities. It seems like full body immersion results in acute alcohol poisoning due to the amount absorbed via the skin plus the fumes breathed in.

For disinfection, it is enough to wash affected areas with soap and water. Are there any dangerous compounds that are not dissolved in soapy water, and aren't absorbed by the skin (in which case taking a bath in alcohol will be pointless anyway), but are dissolved in alcohol? I can't think of any. Radioactive dust is carried away by taking a shower in water much more effectively. Anyway if the bodies were radioactive, the safest thing to do is wear protective lead, or better yet, freeze them and wait a few weeks until the radioactivity reduces to safe levels, instead of conducting an autopsy without any protection and then bathing in alcohol... If there were nerve agents present on the bodies, these are absorbed into the skin, taking a bath is ineffective.

To me it seems like this episode is pure fantasy?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 12:39:40 AM by Manti »
 

February 04, 2022, 12:13:52 AM
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Teddy

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There are several accounts that say morgue staff and those present at the autopsies were made to take a bath in a vat of alcohol.

I know it was in a movie but do you have more "accounts" handy? I mean the first thing to tell if something legit is to examine the sources.
So who said that?
I am not arguing, I can do some digging myself. It is interesting subject but since you raised the question - who said about bathing in alcohol?
 

February 04, 2022, 12:35:31 AM
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Manti


I have found a reference to it here: https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=288.msg4120#msg4120
Quote
"One more interesting detail regarding May 1959 autopsy was provided by Vladimir Korotaev, at the time a recent law school graduate working for the Ivdel Prosecutor's Office. He was helping Vasily Tempalov for the first few days of the investigation. He claimed that he was present as a corpsman during the forensic examination of the last four bodies. According to Korotaev, "...there were two barrels with alcohol, and after every autopsy we, naked, plunged into them. It made me think: what was going on..." Korotaev's testimony looks somewhat doubtful: dipping naked into the barrel with alcohol, besides being a very painful experience, would not make any sense - other, more efficient and less traumatic decontaminating agents were available at the time.
Lobatcheva, Irina. Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret (p. 105). Parallel Worlds' Books. Kindle Edition. "
But it's unclear who Korotaev made this claim to and when...
 
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February 04, 2022, 12:45:42 AM
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Teddy

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Excellent, I will add it on this page. Thank you for quoting the source.
https://dyatlovpass.com/korotaev

But as you pointed out, it is still not the primary source. Carry on with the discussion, I am picking what I need for the site...
 
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February 04, 2022, 01:35:45 AM
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Teddy

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It was nagging at me that I have heard it somewhere before and there it is: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/SoLiOdJyCK/mystery_of_dyatlov_pass
Search for "alcohol" and you will find the following paragraph: Oleg mentions one more anomaly – a big barrel of alcohol was delivered before the autopsies, which he believes investigators used as a primitive form of protection against radiation.
There are claims in this interview by Oleg Arkhipov that are simply not true.
"He has unearthed some interesting documents after making friends with the former prosecutor, Lev Ivanov, who first investigated the deaths and led the official inquest in 1959."
Arkhipov didn't know Ivanov, Korotaev did. Since Korotaev died in 2012 https://dyatlovpass.com/whois#korotaev Arkhipov steals his tunes, and Korotaev was making some things up to start with. Arkhipov speaks and writes about the confiscation of histological analyzes and samples of March bodies.
He was allegedly told about this by veterans of forensic science who worked with Vozrozhdenniy and Gants.
He does not name the veterans, does not give a full record of the conversation, there are no supporting documents.
So we have Korotaev talking about "bathing in alcohol" and then Oleg Arkhipov, who steals Korotaev show, having witnesses seeing big supplies of alcohol being delivered to the Ivdel hospital. It is not just a morgue there.
You tell me, how do you derive from this that there were dipping into alcohol after the autopsy?

I added three points from this podcast to the Controversy on the site:

Is it true that local people were not allowed to graze their animals in the area?

Were hikers banned from going to the area after the incident?

Histological analysis results of the first five bodies never made it to the case files

... and will add one more after we are a little further into the discussion of the subject in hand.
 
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February 04, 2022, 08:44:02 AM
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Игорь Б.


В России не бывает, чтобы такое количество спирта расходовали не по назначению:
Quote
-Разбить?
-Разбить.
-Поллитра?
-Поллитра.
-Вдребезги?
-Ну конечно вдребезги.
-Да я тебя за это...!  bat1



На самом деле, если бы потребовалось обеззараживание спиртом, то им бы обтирались, а не купались.
Различные нарушения памяти при старческой деменции:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110035
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 
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February 04, 2022, 06:22:11 PM
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marieuk


Thanks Teddy.  It was so interesting to read the Controversy questions.  I noticed under the Histological Analysis Results, it says parts/pieces of their internal organs were taken for tests, but for Doroshenko it says some organs were taken for tests.  Is it a translation thing, or is there really a difference between what was taken for tests please? 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2022, 12:06:25 AM by Teddy »
 

February 05, 2022, 12:09:04 AM
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Teddy

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Thanks Teddy.  It was so interesting to read the Controversy questions.  I noticed under the Histological Analysis Results, it says parts/pieces of their internal organs were taken for tests, but for Doroshenko it says some organs were taken for tests.  Is it a translation thing, or is there really a difference between what was taken for tests please?

I am quoting the autopsy report. The link is right next to the quote. At the time the autopsy reports were written by hand, there was no copy/paste.
If you are asking me to interpret why was it written differenlty - I don't know.
 

February 05, 2022, 02:46:07 PM
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marieuk


 

February 05, 2022, 09:05:01 PM
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GlennM


Thanks Teddy.  It was so interesting to read the Controversy questions.  I noticed under the Histological Analysis Results, it says parts/pieces of their internal organs were taken for tests, but for Doroshenko it says some organs were taken for tests.  Is it a translation thing, or is there really a difference between what was taken for tests please?

I am quoting the autopsy report. The link is right next to the quote. At the time the autopsy reports were written by hand, there was no copy/paste.
If you are asking me to interpret why was it written differenlty - I don't know.
This observation tells me that the Russian authorities did a thorough investigation.  This did not lead to a criminal investigation of a crime and cover up. It was an unknown compelling force. I believe a combination of unsteady ground, cold, fatigue and cold rations lead to a panic in the tent. They misjudged their distance to safety and their ability to get back to the tent. Even as I write it, it seems unreal. What a mystery!
 

February 13, 2022, 02:30:22 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Thanks Teddy.  It was so interesting to read the Controversy questions.  I noticed under the Histological Analysis Results, it says parts/pieces of their internal organs were taken for tests, but for Doroshenko it says some organs were taken for tests.  Is it a translation thing, or is there really a difference between what was taken for tests please?

I am quoting the autopsy report. The link is right next to the quote. At the time the autopsy reports were written by hand, there was no copy/paste.
If you are asking me to interpret why was it written differenlty - I don't know.
This observation tells me that the Russian authorities did a thorough investigation.  This did not lead to a criminal investigation of a crime and cover up. It was an unknown compelling force. I believe a combination of unsteady ground, cold, fatigue and cold rations lead to a panic in the tent. They misjudged their distance to safety and their ability to get back to the tent. Even as I write it, it seems unreal. What a mystery!

It tells me that the Soviet Authorities wanted the case closed down asap. And the area was closed down for several years.
DB
 

February 13, 2022, 05:54:50 PM
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Manti


https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy?flp=1#ban2
According to this section on the website, there was a trip to the pass in August '59, so the area wasn't "closed for years".
 

February 16, 2022, 05:45:04 PM
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy?flp=1#ban2
According to this section on the website, there was a trip to the pass in August '59, so the area wasn't "closed for years".

I have looked for evidence of visits to the area after 1959 and found no evidence until many years past.
DB
 

February 16, 2022, 08:37:33 PM
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GlennM


The point is that this event was not swept under the rug, diligence was done, dignity was done, no deathbed confessions suggest otherwise. Bad things happen to good people.
 
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February 17, 2022, 01:28:23 AM
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Игорь Б.


I have looked for evidence of visits to the area after 1959 and found no evidence until many years past.
Фотография похода в июле 1959 года:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=66334
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 

February 18, 2022, 04:23:08 PM
Reply #15
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
I have looked for evidence of visits to the area after 1959 and found no evidence until many years past.
Фотография похода в июле 1959 года:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=66334

Proves nothing. They passed no where near were the Dyatlov Group met their demise. Its a big area.
DB
 

February 19, 2022, 01:55:16 PM
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Игорь Б.


Студенты могли пойти куда угодно, ведь они никем не контролировались. От юрты Бахтиярова до перевала Дятлова 50 км. - 2 дня пути. Почему бы любопытным студентам не зайти на перевал, не посмотреть на место происшествия? Я бы зашёл.
Если бы район был закрыт, никаких походов там вообще не было бы. Для советского человека это очевидно.
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286
 

February 21, 2022, 04:50:57 AM
Reply #17
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Студенты могли пойти куда угодно, ведь они никем не контролировались. От юрты Бахтиярова до перевала Дятлова 50 км. - 2 дня пути. Почему бы любопытным студентам не зайти на перевал, не посмотреть на место происшествия? Я бы зашёл.
Если бы район был закрыт, никаких походов там вообще не было бы. Для советского человека это очевидно.

But there is no evidence of any one going to that area until several years had past.
DB
 

February 21, 2022, 06:14:23 AM
Reply #18
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Игорь Б.


Предыдущий поход на Отортен был в 1956 году. По вашей логике до 1959 года район тоже был закрыт? По-вашему, в те времена на Отортен туристы должны были ходить каждый год?
В общем, если вы утверждаете, что район был закрыт, то представьте доказательства.
The answers to all the questions related to the death of Dyatlov group:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=110407
Evidence of the death of the Dyatlov group from the Wolverine chemical weapon:
http://1723.ru/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=5133&view=findpost&p=69286