November 29, 2021, 06:53:55 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: My short take on murder.  (Read 17011 times)

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December 19, 2020, 12:06:17 PM
Reply #90
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Saltyseadog


The group were never in the tent up on the mountain. Their captors and murderers removed it from the cedar area where we see the birch pad for the tent and set it up. This is why it is so neat inside and missing certain items. Maybe some of the group were still alive and able to watch from the cedar what was going on.
In the end there are 3 groups of bodies deliberately set up the way they are. This is a clue to when and why they were murdered.
Most were killed up on Hoi Eckwa - Lyuda, Zolotaryov, Tibo and Kolevatov. This was because they were caught red handed defying mansi custom about no women up on the mountain and maybe trying to rifle through ceremonial gifts to the supreme god. I believe the group knew about the golden idol and this explains their presence up on Hoi Eckwa.
Igor and Rustem were next to die probably returning to camp on 29/1 when they heard Zina screaming. Zina and the two Yuris had been left at camp on 29/1 (see her diary entry) while the others explored a track south of the Auspiya - we are waiting for the others to return.
These three were first attacked, maybe the Yuris captured, then killed in a fight with the natives, Zina captured alive. Igor and Rustem returning down the mountain.
Now the group is split and in 3 groups, easy to be taken care of by a small group of attackers and after the group on the Auspiya camp area they followed tracks came acoss Igor and Rustem, took care of them then went up Hoi Eckwa and came across the rest.
The question is had the group already found the golden idol and sent it back with Yudin. Did Yudin know of the groups quest but they had been warned at the Ushma settlement and he got cold feet and was worried about the consequences so left after the 2nd north or does the lostday account for the trip up Hoi Eckwa and the groups deaths not only for being on the mountain with a woman but for stealing the golden idol?
Hence the severity of injuries in members in the ravine, at the cedar and laid out supposedly returning to the tent.
The mansi transported the group there and set the scene. Authorities know the assailants, Kurikov blackmailed officials with info he had hence the sudden release of the Bahtiyarovs and subsequent coverup.
This is only a condensed version of what I think transpired.
 

December 19, 2020, 12:16:46 PM
Reply #91
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Saltyseadog


Oh and I forgot to add that the needles and dirt on the bodies are from the area where the bodies were first stored, most likely in one of the huts around the base of Hoi Eckwa until a decision was made what to do with them and where to finally transport them to set up the scene. The footprints on he mountain cannot be from any of the Dyatlov group. I defy any one here to even try walking 1500m in bare feet or socks on frozen ground and see how far you get! Completely impossible.
 

December 19, 2020, 03:00:52 PM
Reply #92
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Oh and I forgot to add that the needles and dirt on the bodies are from the area where the bodies were first stored, most likely in one of the huts around the base of Hoi Eckwa until a decision was made what to do with them and where to finally transport them to set up the scene. The footprints on he mountain cannot be from any of the Dyatlov group. I defy any one here to even try walking 1500m in bare feet or socks on frozen ground and see how far you get! Completely impossible.

The Search Parties say otherwise. And there is still no motive for Murder by other Humans.
DB
 

December 20, 2020, 04:05:25 AM
Reply #93
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Per Inge Oestmoen


Oh and I forgot to add that the needles and dirt on the bodies are from the area where the bodies were first stored, most likely in one of the huts around the base of Hoi Eckwa until a decision was made what to do with them and where to finally transport them to set up the scene. The footprints on he mountain cannot be from any of the Dyatlov group. I defy any one here to even try walking 1500m in bare feet or socks on frozen ground and see how far you get! Completely impossible.

The Search Parties say otherwise. And there is still no motive for Murder by other Humans.


1. When people are forced out in the cold at gunpoint, there is no choice. We have every reason to believe that this is what happened to the nine Dyatlov pass victims.

2. A proper criminal investigation does not start with the question "is there an obvious motive?" A proper criminal investigation starts with a thorough forensic analysis of the available evidence, in order to establish whether or not a criminal act has taken place.

3. In this case, all the available evidence confirms that the Dyatlov pass tragedy was an intelligently planned, brilliantly executed mission which was carefully orchestrated to make it look like an accident. The injuries found in the victims can all be explained by human attack, and moreover they can only be explained by human attack by skilled murderers who knew what they were doing. This fact is demonstrable, and the next question is who did it and why. It may be that we shall never know with certainty, and even if there is reason to believe that the Soviet state security organs were responsible it cannot be strictly proven until someone speaks. However, it is certain that the nine students were murdered, and it is certain that the killers had one objective: To make sure that the nine were eliminated.

4. Only the fact that there was an unexpected rise in temperature during the night of February 2, 1959, prevented this carefully planned assasination from being the perfect mission. If the temperature had been -30C instead of around -15C, the nine hikers would have expired fast as planned.
 

December 21, 2020, 12:35:49 PM
Reply #94
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Oh and I forgot to add that the needles and dirt on the bodies are from the area where the bodies were first stored, most likely in one of the huts around the base of Hoi Eckwa until a decision was made what to do with them and where to finally transport them to set up the scene. The footprints on he mountain cannot be from any of the Dyatlov group. I defy any one here to even try walking 1500m in bare feet or socks on frozen ground and see how far you get! Completely impossible.

The Search Parties say otherwise. And there is still no motive for Murder by other Humans.


1. When people are forced out in the cold at gunpoint, there is no choice. We have every reason to believe that this is what happened to the nine Dyatlov pass victims.

2. A proper criminal investigation does not start with the question "is there an obvious motive?" A proper criminal investigation starts with a thorough forensic analysis of the available evidence, in order to establish whether or not a criminal act has taken place.

3. In this case, all the available evidence confirms that the Dyatlov pass tragedy was an intelligently planned, brilliantly executed mission which was carefully orchestrated to make it look like an accident. The injuries found in the victims can all be explained by human attack, and moreover they can only be explained by human attack by skilled murderers who knew what they were doing. This fact is demonstrable, and the next question is who did it and why. It may be that we shall never know with certainty, and even if there is reason to believe that the Soviet state security organs were responsible it cannot be strictly proven until someone speaks. However, it is certain that the nine students were murdered, and it is certain that the killers had one objective: To make sure that the nine were eliminated.

4. Only the fact that there was an unexpected rise in temperature during the night of February 2, 1959, prevented this carefully planned assasination from being the perfect mission. If the temperature had been -30C instead of around -15C, the nine hikers would have expired fast as planned.

Well who is we  !  ?  Iam sure many Investigators dont believe that the Dyatlov Group were forced from their Tent by other people with guns.
The original Investigation left a lot to be desired.
You state that all the available Evidence confirms that the Dyatlov Pass tragedy was an intelligently planned brilliantly executed mission. Can you show one piece of Evidence to back up that statement  !  ?
And can you show the Evidence of an unexpected rise of Temperature on the night of February 2 1959  ! ?
DB
 

April 18, 2021, 05:23:31 PM
Reply #95
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Dona



QUOTE " Well who is we  !  ?  Iam sure many Investigators dont believe that the Dyatlov Group were forced from their Tent by other people with guns.
The original Investigation left a lot to be desired.
You state that all the available Evidence confirms that the Dyatlov Pass tragedy was an intelligently planned brilliantly executed mission. Can you show one piece of Evidence to back up that statement  !  ?
And can you show the Evidence of an unexpected rise of Temperature on the night of February 2 1959  ! ?
[/quote]

I can. 6 temple wounds.. Not so brilliant tho.. They missed  Yuri up in the tree and Igor out collecting wood for the den.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 08:14:30 PM by Dona »
 

April 19, 2021, 11:58:09 AM
Reply #96
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient

QUOTE " Well who is we  !  ?  Iam sure many Investigators dont believe that the Dyatlov Group were forced from their Tent by other people with guns.
The original Investigation left a lot to be desired.
You state that all the available Evidence confirms that the Dyatlov Pass tragedy was an intelligently planned brilliantly executed mission. Can you show one piece of Evidence to back up that statement  !  ?
And can you show the Evidence of an unexpected rise of Temperature on the night of February 2 1959  ! ?

I can. 6 temple wounds.. Not so brilliant tho.. They missed  Yuri up in the tree and Igor out collecting wood for the den.
[/quote]

There are lots of Injuries and not one can be proved to have been caused by an attack by other people.
DB
 

April 19, 2021, 12:20:33 PM
Reply #97
Offline

Dona


Yes, its proof..  You cant get around that..

Or something falling on them etc.. It is proof.. Its not a natural event.
 

April 19, 2021, 03:49:15 PM
Reply #98
Offline

Manti


The group were never in the tent up on the mountain. Their captors and murderers removed it from the cedar area where we see the birch pad for the tent and set it up. This is why it is so neat inside and missing certain items. Maybe some of the group were still alive and able to watch from the cedar what was going on.
In the end there are 3 groups of bodies deliberately set up the way they are. This is a clue to when and why they were murdered.
Most were killed up on Hoi Eckwa - Lyuda, Zolotaryov, Tibo and Kolevatov. This was because they were caught red handed defying mansi custom about no women up on the mountain and maybe trying to rifle through ceremonial gifts to the supreme god. I believe the group knew about the golden idol and this explains their presence up on Hoi Eckwa.
Igor and Rustem were next to die probably returning to camp on 29/1 when they heard Zina screaming. Zina and the two Yuris had been left at camp on 29/1 (see her diary entry) while the others explored a track south of the Auspiya - we are waiting for the others to return.
These three were first attacked, maybe the Yuris captured, then killed in a fight with the natives, Zina captured alive. Igor and Rustem returning down the mountain.
Now the group is split and in 3 groups, easy to be taken care of by a small group of attackers and after the group on the Auspiya camp area they followed tracks came acoss Igor and Rustem, took care of them then went up Hoi Eckwa and came across the rest.
The question is had the group already found the golden idol and sent it back with Yudin. Did Yudin know of the groups quest but they had been warned at the Ushma settlement and he got cold feet and was worried about the consequences so left after the 2nd north or does the lostday account for the trip up Hoi Eckwa and the groups deaths not only for being on the mountain with a woman but for stealing the golden idol?
Hence the severity of injuries in members in the ravine, at the cedar and laid out supposedly returning to the tent.
The mansi transported the group there and set the scene. Authorities know the assailants, Kurikov blackmailed officials with info he had hence the sudden release of the Bahtiyarovs and subsequent coverup.
This is only a condensed version of what I think transpired.

Wait... Because this is buried in this thread which gets tedious to read some pages back, I have only now read your post.
Saltyseadog, your theory deserves its own thread if not own board or book. Essentially the Mansi theory, but with a motive! And it would explain so much. For example recently in another thread I wondered why they apparently moved at a snail's pace. A side-quest to Hoy Ekva explains this, it's on the way, and I paid no attention to it when I read the diaries but yes it's right there in Zina's diary, the group split up.

I used to think a coverup involving moving the bodies necessitates a helicopter. But no, the Mansi had sleds.

This really needs its own thread, I have a few questions :)
 

April 29, 2021, 07:58:32 AM
Reply #99
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Saltyseadog


well you are welcome to start one. I have modified the theory a little after examining further evidence but essentially same. I think the group was tracked their whole path along the Auspiya.
In radiograms it points to Andrey Anyamov being the hunter, or mansi who made the fresh tracks and camp as mentioned in Upper reaches of the Auspiya and he says he came across the camp and fresh tracks in this area. So this is information relayed during the search and before he made his statement.
When he makes his statement he is on the Lower reaches just moving in from the Losva and found tracks but did not come across the hike group nor their camp.
Take in mind origially he states he was in the area the last week of January, First week of February hunting, yet the story changes after his co hunters are interrogated.
What it says though is that his statement is most likely the truthful one as it follows on from the search radiograms before statements were taken and most likely he and/or his party were with or followed the Dyatlovs along the Auspiya. This is outlined in diary entries of fresh tracks, camp sites, reindeer and of course the exclamation, "Yes, Mansi, Mansi, Mansi"
 

April 30, 2021, 03:36:38 PM
Reply #100
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Saltyseadog


I see that there are replies concerning no intervention by humans.
May I ask why the area around the tent was 'swept' clean as mentioned in searchers statements and footprints didnt start until 20m from the tent.
Also the injuries from the Autopsy reports definitively point to a fist fight involving the Dyatlovs.
Of course there was human intervention and to ignore these facts is ignoring the true essence of the case.
 

April 30, 2021, 03:45:42 PM
Reply #101
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Saltyseadog


I forgot motive.
Again only speculation, I will admit that, but lets take this quote from the interview of the hunter Stepochkin , "“But we don't need to hide anything. We are the masters here. And if someone takes something, we will still find it."
Not only does it suggest the Dyatlovs removed something belonging to the mansi but maybe they desecrated a mansi shrine etc.
It also goes a long way to answering why no money or other items were removed.
The mansi reovered what was theirs, exacted revenge and left.
Simple, end of story according to their ways.
 

May 30, 2021, 05:26:52 PM
Reply #102
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RidgeWatcher


It was explained in the book by Teddy and Pavlov that these charges that were set preceded in a linear movement up a slop or along a line nd were these done in daylight or daylight and nighttime?

This means that the Dyatlov tourists would have to have heard this happening the blasting prior to a nearby tree falling on them. What are the chances that some of the group made it out of the tent and got to the open area where Zine, Rustem and Dyatlov were found. Could this explain Rustems icy shell? I still wonder if they were found alive, approached, battle ensues and then left for dead. Rustem was still warm when he his body went down in the snow in that clear area above the tree line.