Theories Discussion > Avalanche
What if a snow glide happened in the ravine?
sarapuk:
--- Quote from: Puchiko on February 07, 2019, 03:46:56 PM ---
--- Quote from: sarapuk on February 07, 2019, 12:45:42 PM ---I think you will find that this theory has popped up in other Posts. We dont even know if it was a Den. It would have had to have been one hell of an avalanche etc to cause those injuries to DUBININA.
--- End quote ---
I agree with your conclusion regarding Ludmila's injuries - but what else would be than a den? The den appears in all descriptions of the incident, so I've always taken it as fact, although as I'm checking the evidence, all that's photographed are the branches and clothes - was it a cavity when found or was it filled by snow by then?
--- End quote ---
All we know is that a search party dug down and eventually found a sort of platform. But does this small platform indicate a DEN ! ? I dont see any indications of it being a DEN or CAVITY.
Bannef:
Thank you for asking that, I had been looking for an answer to whether that theory is likely or not.
I skimmed a study on avalanche deaths. The very few people who actually died from physical trauma did have familiar sounding symptoms - facial abrasions, rib fractures, skull fracture. But the vast majority of deaths were caused by asphyxiation. Of the 56 cases studied, only three people died from physical trauma alone. Asphyxiation killed the rest of them.
Of the four people found in the ravine, their causes of death was listed as rib fractures and internal hemorrhaging for two (Dubinina and Zolotaryov), skull fracture for one (Thibeaux-Brignolle) and hypothermia for one (Kolevatov). An avalanche that caused these deaths would be relatively unique, as it caused massive damage, but covered them with so little snow that they died from their wounds before asphyxiating.
Of course, that is based on the assumption that the medical examiner can distinguish between death caused by wounds and death caused by asphyxiation. I know nothing about autopsies, I can't say.
Squatch:
--- Quote from: sug2h on February 07, 2019, 12:00:15 PM ---Most theories based on avalanche / snowslab / ice glide are suggesting that the event happened near the tent, and made the skiers flee to the treeline.
But what if something else made them flee the tent, and then some sort of snow glide or ice glide happened in the ravine, as the Rav4 were building a den?
I say this because of the injuries suffered by 3 of the Rav4 that could be explained by a large amount of snow hitting them. If those injuries were caused as they were still in the tent, I don't see how they could have managed to walk to the ravine.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Could this ravine be abrupt enough, or deep enough to cause such an event?
--- End quote ---
I agree with everything you have said.
The avalanche did not happen at the tent in my opinion. It happened in the ravine. The huge amount of snow above the "den" area and over the bodies seems to indicate massive movement of snow -- enough to cause injury and death.
I would further speculate that Rustem Slobodin barely escaped this with a skull fracture and Igor Dyatlov and Zinaida Kolmogorova escaped relatively unscathed. I think the three of them made for the tent after the ravine avalanche as a last resort. This would explain why the group appeared to "split up" after the cedar tree... because in reality they didn't! They were all together until the ravine disaster and the three survivors then made for the tent.
RMK:
--- Quote from: Squatch on April 02, 2021, 07:17:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: sug2h on February 07, 2019, 12:00:15 PM ---Most theories based on avalanche / snowslab / ice glide are suggesting that the event happened near the tent, and made the skiers flee to the treeline.
But what if something else made them flee the tent, and then some sort of snow glide or ice glide happened in the ravine, as the Rav4 were building a den?
I say this because of the injuries suffered by 3 of the Rav4 that could be explained by a large amount of snow hitting them. If those injuries were caused as they were still in the tent, I don't see how they could have managed to walk to the ravine.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Could this ravine be abrupt enough, or deep enough to cause such an event?
--- End quote ---
I agree with everything you have said.
The avalanche did not happen at the tent in my opinion. It happened in the ravine. The huge amount of snow above the "den" area and over the bodies seems to indicate massive movement of snow -- enough to cause injury and death.
I would further speculate that Rustem Slobodin barely escaped this with a skull fracture and Igor Dyatlov and Zinaida Kolmogorova escaped relatively unscathed. I think the three of them made for the tent after the ravine avalanche as a last resort. This would explain why the group appeared to "split up" after the cedar tree... because in reality they didn't! They were all together until the ravine disaster and the three survivors then made for the tent.
--- End quote ---
In this scenario you describe, what happened to the two Yuris? Would they already be dead by the time the avalanche happened in the ravine?
Manti:
--- Quote from: Bannef on October 31, 2020, 04:09:45 PM ---Of course, that is based on the assumption that the medical examiner can distinguish between death caused by wounds and death caused by asphyxiation. I know nothing about autopsies, I can't say.
--- End quote ---
I have been reading about the same thing, encourage everyone to do so. It does appear that even using modern methods, it is often hard to ascertain the cause of death in both hypothermia and asphyxiation victims. These are mostly determined by ruling out anything else, so if there is no obvious cause of death and the incident happened in a cold environment, it's ruled as hypothermia. If it happened in water or a high altitude or an enclosed space like a cave, it's ruled as asphyxiation.
But in reality it is often a combination. Avalanche victims buried under snow might die due to asphyxiation but this in turn happens because they couldn't dig themselves out which might be due to trauma, not serious enough to kill on its own but big enough to weaken them. Or hypothermia victims might become disorientated, lose balance, or have hallucinations and fall as a result, sustaining trauma. And so on..
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