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Author Topic: Order of deaths  (Read 8043 times)

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April 11, 2019, 06:14:53 AM
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Clacon

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I know this is a pretty morbid topic, but wanted to get opinions about who you guys think perished first and why and how long this process took.
 
I think Teddy said that after sustaining the injuries it would have taken about 20 minutes to succumb to them. Was this because of the cold? Is it specifically the Ravine 4's deaths or all of them?

I know it seems as though the 2 Yuri's succumbed first because their clothing was taken off of them by survivors. How long after leaving the tent do you think they perished? (I don't believe they took off their clothes because of hypothermia, as I think it is apparent the bodies were turned over after they died).

As Igor was the only one of "the three" that had an article of clothing of another person, perhaps they set off from the Cedar to go back to the tent, but were gravely injured and died of the cold and their injuries. How long do you think this took?

And do you think the Ravine 4 perished at the same time as "the three" or after? It seems that many believe Kolevatov was the last to die and I was just wondering why this is the opinion of most?


 

April 11, 2019, 06:31:02 AM
Reply #1
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Nigel Evans


My guess is - 2 yuris, ravine 4, Igor attends the ravine 4 whilst Rustem and Zinaida try and return to the tent (or a vehicle?). Rustem and Zinaida don't return, Igor dies last of hypothermia
 

April 11, 2019, 06:50:28 AM
Reply #2
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Teddy

Administrator
Everything is morbid in this case. There is no way to discuss this with subtlety.
To me the order of death follows kind of the exchange of clothes. Lets see:
- Igor wears Yudin's vest who he gave to Doroshenko.
- Kolevatov is in Doroshenko's jumpsuit.
- Zolotaryov has Doroshenko's hat.
- Tibo has Krivonischenko's wrist watch, possibly one of the sweaters is Krivonischenko's too, Lyuda's hat and jacket. In the right pocket are crumpled pair of gloves that must have been Lyuda's.

So Doroshenko and Krivonischenko are dead but who of the two died first... I think Krivonischenko froze on the tree while Doroshenko was tortured because there was grayish foam coming out of his mouth. After biting his thumb to regain sensitivity in his fingers at some point Krivonischneko fell down breaking the branches of the tree on his way.

But for them to die while the rest are alive means that the 3 going up and the ravine 4 must have split while Doroshenko and Krivonischenko are still alive. This means Doroshenko must have given Dyatlov the vest. The 3 start off or Slobodin never made it to the fire. The ravine 4 go, dig the den and come back for the rest. They find only 2 bodies by the fire. Strip some clothes, the watch. There is speculation that Tibo was on duty hence the valenki and the second watch, so he doesn't oversleep, but I don't think so. His own watch was working just fine.

Nothing is taken from Igor, Zina and Kolevatov. I don't think these tree were in contact with the ravine 4 after they split from the cedar.

I think Tibo, Lyuda and Zolotaryov sustain their traumas in a very short succession from each other. Kolevatov had to choose whom to help. Lyuda had pierced heart, she must have looked pretty dead. So Kolevatov takes her hat and jacket and puts them on Tibo, and then try to warm up Zolotaryov with his own body to no avail.

There is no clear order though. My guess:
  • Slobodin
  • Zina
  • Igor
  • Doroshenko
  • Krivonischenko
  • Lyuda
  • Tibo
  • Zolotaryov
  • Kolevatov

« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 07:00:10 AM by Teddy »
 

April 11, 2019, 07:47:51 AM
Reply #3

Clacon

Guest
So the assumption that Kolevatov died last is because of the way his body was found? "Spooning" Semyon? This makes a lot of sense, actually.

Also, do you think Krivonischenko could have bitten the skin off of his hand trying to keep quiet or because he was in an extreme amount of pain, or both? I just think you would have to be under such duress to do something like that, 2 cm is a big piece of skin - although, I suppose I have never been that cold....

Teddy - what makes you think Slobodin may have been the first to die??

Nigel - why do you think Igor was separate from Rustem and Zina and with the Ravine 4?
 

April 11, 2019, 07:53:49 AM
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Teddy

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April 11, 2019, 08:04:08 AM
Reply #5

Clacon

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April 11, 2019, 08:24:58 AM
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Nigel Evans



Nigel - why do you think Igor was separate from Rustem and Zina and with the Ravine 4?
After the ravine event they dig down to ensure the 4 could breathe. Then it is apparent that they can't move them but they don't understand the extent of their injuries and that there is no hope. If they can dig out more snow and get them in blankets and create a shelter then they might survive. So two people have to go back for supplies whilst one stays and attends the wounded. It is (or could be soon) snowing which could quickly cover the wounded and suffocate them (Nicolai is unconscious). The pathologist estimates Nicolai surviving for a couple of hours (from memory). This is also a similar period to how long the round trip to the tent would take. So Igor waits in vain for hours until Nicolai ceases breathing. Then he tries to make it to the tent and find Zinaida and Rustem. But hypothermia has taken over. He loses higher order mental function, stumbles through dense undergrowth picking up scratches until he to lies down to die.
 

April 11, 2019, 08:53:05 AM
Reply #7
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
My initial thoughts were

The 2 Yuria first

Then the ravine 4 or possibly 3 as Kolevatov may have stayed with the three injured.

Then the three on the slope.

However I am not so sure that the three on the slope were in contact with the other two groups.  So I think that

Two Yuris
Ravine 4

But three on slope could have died before or after the other two groups

Regards
Star man
 

April 11, 2019, 09:04:02 AM
Reply #8

Clacon

Guest
How long do you think it took for them all to expire? I know those with rib and severe injuries would have been about 20 minutes.
 

April 11, 2019, 09:16:14 AM
Reply #9

Clacon

Guest
Re: Length of time the four missing hikers survived in the ravine .

Quote
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on April 16, 2018, 07:46:20 PM
Stomach contents indicated their last meal was (if I recall) somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-8hrs.  So I would say early morning


"This is true for all but the ravine four according to the autopsy reports. Is there any other evidence that they died that night or early morning?

I would guess that, had they lived to see daylight, also these four would have made an attempt at reaching the tent and the resources therein. Unless they were heavily injured maybe or some other "compelling force" prevented them from doing so." - CZ


Is this true? I was under the impression all of the hikers' stomach contents were analysed and they all died within 6-8 hours of their last meal?

 

April 11, 2019, 09:33:54 AM
Reply #10
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Star man

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
How long do you think it took for them all to expire? I know those with rib and severe injuries would have been about 20 minutes.

I would think about 6 to 7 hours at a guess for those who lived longest
 

April 11, 2019, 09:51:21 AM
Reply #11

Clacon

Guest
Omg - I just realized after reading your post, how dumb my question was!! Durrrr!!

Thanks Star Man. :)

Can anyone confirm what CZ said...not sure if he/she meant that the Ravine 4's stomach contents were not analysed or if the stomach contents indicated something other than dying within 6-8 hours after eating.
 

April 11, 2019, 11:24:31 PM
Reply #12
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Monika


Here is my opinion:

Since ravine 4 dig the den just for four places to sitting it is clear
1. all of them were healthy in the time of starting to dig the den and they were injured after the den was finished..
2. it also points out that they did not expect the return of the trio.

I make conlusion:
Yuris died firstly due to coldness and their death and the fact that the fire was not able to working for a long time in this windy weather resulted in the group breaking up. Trio decided to go (together) to the tent for clothes. The four waited for trio some time but later they made conclusion that trio will never return and decided to build the den. 
Ravine 4: I presume Luyda died firstly, then Zolotarev and Thibo, last was Kolevatov.
Trio aiming to the tent: Firstly Igor, then Rustik and lastly Zina.

“It is true stomach contents indicated their last meal was somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-8hrs”.
But we do not know the time they had dinner. Thus we do not know the time that has passed since their escape from the tent to the death of the last of them.
 

April 12, 2019, 03:35:03 AM
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Ehtnisba


I have a slightly unpopular opinion that the three hill never made it to the fire. The argument that their heads are pointing tiwards the tent and that means they are going up is nonsense. Have you ever fallen when walking downhill? Your head will never point down, you fall on your butt and your head is always uphill. Yeah the way the branch is stuck under Dyatlov's arm is possible only if the body is coming from downhill, but that's why I think his body has been dragged from the original position.
So first dies Zina ,but not of hypothermia of course. She was hit in the head and on the waist. She tried to move ,manages to walk a bit grom the tent ,falls and crumble on one side. Then Slobodin is hit on the head when he is away from the tent and falls immidiately unconscious and dies.
Dyatlov could be almost to the cedar when he is tied and dragged until stuck in the bush and left there to die of cold.
Two on the cedar are next and I believe they were alone at the cedar ,because why the most undressed will climb to brake branches,while Tibo and Zolotarev were well dressed and had gloves. More logical is for them to climb and brake branches with gloves, not the ones with bare hands. So i believe the group spread in the dark from the beginning. Each on their own. People are people.
Ravine 4 were hiding in the ravine, they go to the fire when they thought the danger is gone. Took clothes from Yuris, returned to ravine and there they were killed. With probably Kolevatov being the last one to die of hypothermia while trying to warm hinself on still warm body of Zolotaryov.
I don't believe in heroic acts here. These are rare and occure in few people. In death or life moments people tend to act for themselves .
 

April 12, 2019, 08:14:39 AM
Reply #14

Clacon

Guest
You know Monika, you're right. we don't know what time they ate, and therefore its hard to determine what time they died.

I am guessing that they were eating when they were interrupted, because there was food out wasn't there? In the tent? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)
Surely if you turn in for the night while camping, you pack all food away so as not to draw animals to the tent.
That might be what happened. I am not sure if they documented anywhere what time they usually ate dinner?
I think I read somewhere the tent was up by about 5pm - can anyone verify?

The other thing I was thinking as I was reading over old posts - I think it was "Marchesk" who stated that something must have kept them away from the tent for some amount of time and they only attempted to return to the tent when things got desperate. (i.e. I think that may have been the death of the Yuris')
The more I think about it, the more this seems something we can all agree on 100 percent, because why would you not return to your shelter, your clothes, your food, your shoes, your weapons etc. as soon as you could??

It is estimated the fire burned for about 1.5 - 2 hours - that's quite a long time - someone mentioned that the Yuris' died soon after the fire went out....which is weird because I just reread autopsy reports for both and they died 6-8 hours after they ate.
So this must mean the fire was started relatively late? Perhaps because they were all at the ravine first?  What do you think??
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 02:20:26 AM by Teddy »
 

April 12, 2019, 03:10:03 PM
Reply #15
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WAB


I have a slightly unpopular opinion that the three hill never made it to the fire. The argument that their heads are pointing tiwards the tent and that means they are going up is nonsense. Have you ever fallen when walking downhill? Your head will never point down, you fall on your butt and your head is always uphill.

Dear Ehtnisba!
You surprise me constantly. In good sense of this word. That almost constantly give answers close to the truth which I saw directly on that place or according to the logic of succession events which is well built in district.
I had suspicion that you there were?
But I have already terminated joke, I will support your opinion.
Human on slope practically always lays down head upwards. At this forum Loose} {Cannon showed photo where set of people settle down on slope. Those who lie, all have direction upwards a head on slope. It is such instinct if so it is possible it will be expressed.


Yeah the way the branch is stuck under Dyatlov's arm is possible only if the body is coming from downhill, but that's why I think his body has been dragged from the original position.

If consider logic of these possible actions three only Dyatlov have uncertainty: where it went - upwards or downwards. If at others 2 there are signs which say that upwards from fire they could not go (structure of things in pockets, position and distance on slope, head injury presence) Dyatlov have full uncertainty with such signs. I give 50 on 50 that could be on miscellaneous. Concerning the others I was already convinced that they could not reach downwards, and then start rise. I resulted arguments already some times.
Therefore its arrangement about what cannot tell, but it does not change anything in sequence of events.

So first dies Zina ,but not of hypothermia of course. She was hit in the head and on the waist.

Excuse me, and why you consider, what there was blow to his head? That it had blood near head, is more similar that it has broken nose and this bleeding such. There nearby there are all conditions for this purpose and as for this purpose that it would be possible receive graze about a waist. For this purpose it is necessary only close located 2 acting stones. Here picture of heap a stone which is near to place where it have found:
 


This year this place looks very similar that was in 1959. This opinion of participants of searches which saw this photo and have told it. It is necessary add only that thin crust of ice over snow there always very slippery even at small bias.

She tried to move ,manages to walk a bit grom the tent ,falls and crumble on one side.
========================
Then Slobodin is hit on the head when he is away from the tent and falls immidiately unconscious and dies.

Rustem Slobodin is place near to Zina - only 150 m or 400 ft. But anybody did not beat him on head, and it has fallen with snow eaves which there is practically always and has height 2 … 2,5 metres or 6 ft. Despite snow small amount under these eaves heading about a ravine bottom was sufficient for this purpose that he would faint. And if has passed ~ 15 minutes (or more) after that on a cold of its muscle could not any more start work well again. It could creep, but nearby and not for long. Near to these eaves it was found a little filled up by snow, by some days after four the very first (2 under cedar + 2 on slope).
In my early messages (February - April 2018) I in detail considered this case with Rustem Slobodin.

Dyatlov could be almost to the cedar when he is tied and dragged until stuck in the bush and left there to die of cold.

Who and why binded he?
These are traces from outsets bakheely  (canvas covers for ski footwear). I wrote about it here in this theme: http://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=96.msg2984


Two on the cedar are next and I believe they were alone at the cedar ,because why the most undressed will climb to brake branches,while Tibo and Zolotarev were well dressed and had gloves. More logical is for them to climb and brake branches with gloves, not the ones with bare hands. So i believe the group spread in the dark from the beginning. Each on their own. People are people.

No. I do not agree that they have dispersed because everyone wanted to survive separately. It would not turn out also they about it knew and had intention to operate together. Circumstances have not allowed them incorporate. More precisely - they could incorporate in groups in which them have found: 2 and 4. The others operated separately because could not meet others. At escape from tent it was dark, the wind blew, there was snow drifting. Visibility and audibility have been strongly limited. Below it was visible better and it is audible, but there it was necessary reach and they have made it at various times.

Ravine 4 were hiding in the ravine, they go to the fire when they thought the danger is gone.

There are no they went to fire because understood that it is unique hope what to survive. And still there was a hope that those who has made fire, can help to transfer the wounded man them to fire. But they were late to those to two that were at fire. It is not known, they have already died or were in a stage when it could not be distinguished from dead, but to operate two at a fire could not any more.
Рide in ravine at them there was no reason. Conditions (without fire) there were identical. But to them was necessary big fire .
What danger could be they did not know and even if it was not absolutely it of anything change cannot.

Took clothes from Yuris, returned to ravine and there they were killed.

From all four in ravine kill was nobody of sense. Three from them were already wounded before it, when one of them has returned there with the clothes rests. It unique had no wound, therefore and it was not meaningful kill him - it had no chances of a cold in such clothes.

With probably Kolevatov being the last one to die of hypothermia while trying to warm hinself on still warm body of Zolotaryov.

Yes, it was the last, only to be warmed (when at Zolotaryov was a lot of clothes, and at Kolevatov a little) it is physically impossible. Kolevatov carry Zolotaryov to den, but it any more did not have forces even its one to inform to den. Look to poses at both of them. They say that they have fallen to snow when his forces have come to end. Kolevatov carry Zolotaryov on back, and at falling has occurred twirl.

I don't believe in heroic acts here. These are rare and occure in few people. In death or life moments people tend to act for themselves .

It just that case when it was so. It is necessary know well mood, habits, motivation and psychology of people in that time in the USSR. And I already spoke: the spirit of collectivism, it is national peculiarity of Russian. From antiquity they have got used live in community. The cold both severe climate and the big distances have historically given such qualities.
The system preparation ski travel at students of that time (partially it remains now) is constructed in such manner that those who is more adjusted as the individualist, are eliminated in the course of preparation for difficult travel already in the first or second year. When they make still more simple travel.
 

April 12, 2019, 10:13:47 PM
Reply #16
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Ehtnisba




Dear Ehtnisba!
You surprise me constantly. In good sense of this word. That almost constantly give answers close to the truth which I saw directly on that place or according to the logic of succession events which is well built in district.
I had suspicion that you there were?
But I have already terminated joke, I will support your opinion.
Human on slope practically always lays down head upwards. At this forum Loose} {Cannon showed photo where set of people settle down on slope. Those who lie, all have direction upwards a head on slope. It is such instinct if so it is possible it will be expressed.
 
Haha well thanks WAB, I may have never been there, but I am skiing in the mountains since 3 years old, so a common sense about falling comes to mind. Also from experience when I needed to climb uphill I know that 100m up are like 1000km down. But if you have walked a mile downhill bare feet in the dark , you will definitely not have the strength to go that much uphill again . And this is not an even ski road like nowadays but wild slope . So yes going up after going down seems impossible to me.


If consider logic of these possible actions three only Dyatlov have uncertainty: where it went - upwards or downwards. If at others 2 there are signs which say that upwards from fire they could not go (structure of things in pockets, position and distance on slope, head injury presence) Dyatlov have full uncertainty with such signs. I give 50 on 50 that could be on miscellaneous. Concerning the others I was already convinced that they could not reach downwards, and then start rise. I resulted arguments already some times.
Therefore its arrangement about what cannot tell, but it does not change anything in sequence of events.
 
Branch under Dyatlov arm is really messing up considerations of up or down. People believe that he as a leader decided to go up searching for Zina and he is relatively close to fire.
But I am wondering why Zolotaryov and Tibo didn't distributed clothes among the others with less, or you think both of them were injured and others decided they need clothes the most?
As I remember one of them had gloves in his pocket ,,, why nobody used them? And why the unbuttoned pockets and jackets . I thought that with very frozen fingers you are unable to button or zip a jacket. Sometimes even unable to put gloves on cause fingers are like cheese bending and totally dead from cold. I wrote this theory in the topic Katabatic Wind




Excuse me, and why you consider, what there was blow to his head?

Yes,because of the blood searchers reported and also from the look of her head in the morgue. But I am not a pathologist to consider it for sure.
Seeing the terrain in your photo makes sense that a person walking in the dark could cause a severe injuries to himself . I imagined it only snow . She was only 500-800 m from the tent. Is it possible her strength to be so small that she didn't make it further? Especially in survival mode? Or if she was walking alone lost from the group this made a crucial impact ot her will and psychological state so she just gave up?
Burmantovo weather reports were minimum -10 C that night. Could you freeze so fast at -10 ? I had mild hypothermia symptoms at -1 in the UK after 5-6 hours outside in light clothes ,but humidity and wind were really high.
So at -10 and wind without clothes maybe an hour or 2 hours?




Rustem Slobodin is place near to Zina - only 150 m or 400 ft. But anybody did not beat him

you maybe see that I am  bang1  between several theories and one of them is that outsider/s made the group escape the tent on gunpoint. In different topics in the forum I am expressing different thoughts and this way trying to find the right ones. For example in the topic for Katabatic Wind ,I wrote about personal experience how me and my friends escaped from a tent due to extreme cold and frozen limbs and suggested it for a reason.
So about Rustem, what intrigues me is that he had injuries /bruising on both sides of his head . Which means that he had hit his head twice and chance of this happening on both his sides so symmetrical are odd. Also his eyes are reported to be bruised and swollen .
That is why he seem curious case for me. I will read your topic about him today.




Who and why binded he?

I saw the canvas bindings , I was thinking about the position of his hands on his chest. Usually tied hands are in this position and I read an article about Mansis way of killing by binding victims to die in the cold and dragged with sledges . Northlander found a book where a case from 1930s is reported about Russians killed by Mansi . So I am speculating about Dyatlov, because he is the only one with curious pose and questions about going up or down. Also who dies face up when cold? Usually you crumble .... But again I may say I remember that once out of complete exhaustion while climbing a slope in snow I laid face up due to easier breathing ,but my hands were spread along the body not on my chest. Maybe when he tried to get up he couldn't and his hand remained in this position holding the branch for support...



No. I do not agree that they have dispersed because everyone wanted to survive separately. It would not turn out also they about it knew and had intention to operate together. Circumstances have not allowed them incorporate. More precisely - they could incorporate in groups in which them have found: 2 and 4. The others operated separately because could not meet others

So you think Zolotaryov, Luda and Tibo had already been injured when they reached the fire? And that is why only 2 Yuris were climbing the tree for firewood? As I find fire to be the most important thing I think that more than 2 people should have been involved in keeping it with firewood.
Also in autopsy report the coroner assumes that Luda had only 20 mins to live after her injury, so if she received it on the slope or in tent how she was still alive at fire and in the den . Fire is estimated to be burning for 2 hours and going downhill an hour or so ..this makes it 3 hours in which all 6 were alive?


It just that case when it was so. It is necessary know well mood, habits, motivation and psychology of people in that time in the USSR. And I already spoke: the spirit of collectivism, it is national peculiarity of Russian. From antiquity they have got used live in community. The cold both severe climate and the big distances have historically given such qualities.
The system preparation ski travel at students of that time (partially it remains now) is constructed in such manner that those who is more adjusted as the individualist, are eliminated in the course of preparation for difficult travel already in the first or second year. When they make still more simple travel.

Good point indeed. I am looking at peoples characters today and from my generation and experience. From old people I know the rule that in the mountain individualists are not accepted.
 

April 13, 2019, 02:05:40 AM
Reply #17
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Nigel Evans


I have a slightly unpopular opinion that the three hill never made it to the fire. The argument that their heads are pointing tiwards the tent and that means they are going up is nonsense. Have you ever fallen when walking downhill? Your head will never point down, you fall on your butt and your head is always uphill. Yeah the way the branch is stuck under Dyatlov's arm is possible only if the body is coming from downhill, but that's why I think his body has been dragged from the original position.
So first dies Zina ,but not of hypothermia of course. She was hit in the head and on the waist. She tried to move ,manages to walk a bit grom the tent ,falls and crumble on one side. Then Slobodin is hit on the head when he is away from the tent and falls immidiately unconscious and dies.
Dyatlov could be almost to the cedar when he is tied and dragged until stuck in the bush and left there to die of cold.
Two on the cedar are next and I believe they were alone at the cedar ,because why the most undressed will climb to brake branches,while Tibo and Zolotarev were well dressed and had gloves. More logical is for them to climb and brake branches with gloves, not the ones with bare hands. So i believe the group spread in the dark from the beginning. Each on their own. People are people.
Ravine 4 were hiding in the ravine, they go to the fire when they thought the danger is gone. Took clothes from Yuris, returned to ravine and there they were killed. With probably Kolevatov being the last one to die of hypothermia while trying to warm hinself on still warm body of Zolotaryov.
I don't believe in heroic acts here. These are rare and occure in few people. In death or life moments people tend to act for themselves .
So they have the energy to, climb trees, gather firewood, light a fire, build a snow den but no energy (or will) to assist fallen members on the slope? It doesn't hold up imo. Also if the Zinaida, Rustem and Igor are struggling to complete the journey it would be whilst ascending, particularly if nitric acid is involved.
 

April 13, 2019, 04:07:21 AM
Reply #18
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Ehtnisba


The only smart thing that guy with the elk said is to try and think out of experience ,well.of course if the said thinker has at least a bit of experience in similar situation...
I highly doubt two Yuris , that's what I wrote here - how come only 2 people are left to climb a tree??? It is clear that only two of them were climbing - injuries, needles only on their bodies,etc.
And Zina is more close to the fire than to the tent if you look at map..or at most she is exactly in the middle between fire and tent . So she had walked at least 700-800m bare feet. As I added i my answer to WAB, human will and strength depends on lot of things. If she was walking alone down the slope 800m in rough terrain with no shoes are quite enough to be injured and tired even in day light . Someone could have helped her die or its natural... Don't know
About the others, if you are in a critic situation without clothes at night and you stumble in rocks and snow you don't go for search of lost comrades first. Even lifeguards don't this. First is to find a safe place for yourself, evaluate the situation , and then go on a search. if Dyatlov went on a search wasn't it reasonable Tibo or Zolotaryov to give him valenki and jacket,one hat???? Or they were like "nah comrade, we believe you have communist superpowers and you will be able to bring 2 people from a slope with bare feet,bare head, and only a vest on your back , go Dyatlov, GO! We be stayin close to fire fully dressed while the other two half naked comrades are climbing a tree to find branches" ...
 

April 13, 2019, 04:31:36 AM
Reply #19
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Nigel Evans


The only smart thing that guy with the elk said is to try and think out of experience ,well.of course if the said thinker has at least a bit of experience in similar situation...
I highly doubt two Yuris , that's what I wrote here - how come only 2 people are left to climb a tree??? It is clear that only two of them were climbing - injuries, needles only on their bodies,etc.
And Zina is more close to the fire than to the tent if you look at map..or at most she is exactly in the middle between fire and tent . So she had walked at least 700-800m bare feet. As I added i my answer to WAB, human will and strength depends on lot of things. If she was walking alone down the slope 800m in rough terrain with no shoes are quite enough to be injured and tired even in day light . Someone could have helped her die or its natural... Don't know
About the others, if you are in a critic situation without clothes at night and you stumble in rocks and snow you don't go for search of lost comrades first. Even lifeguards don't this. First is to find a safe place for yourself, evaluate the situation , and then go on a search. if Dyatlov went on a search wasn't it reasonable Tibo or Zolotaryov to give him valenki and jacket,one hat???? Or they were like "nah comrade, we believe you have communist superpowers and you will be able to bring 2 people from a slope with bare feet,bare head, and only a vest on your back , go Dyatlov, GO! We be stayin close to fire fully dressed while the other two half naked comrades are climbing a tree to find branches" ...


There are certainly echos here with Chivruay, 5 people just lay down 10 metres from a sheer drop  using a tent as a groundsheet and die whilst 2 men move further round the hill presumably for more shelter (and die). So the behaviour fits weakened people unable to help themselves or others. But we don't see this with the Dpi, when they get to the forest they are quite industrious/active.
 

April 13, 2019, 05:11:02 AM
Reply #20
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Ehtnisba


Exactly Chivruay and Korovina group shows us a pettern that people act on their own when they face death. I don't see activity except for the 2 at cedar. Other 4 were in my opinion separate from the fire for reasons unknown..maybe Zolotaryov argued that much better strategy is to find shelter instead of building fire and they just split. If I was there I would choose to believe in the strategy of a wwII veteran and will stick to him,hence more people in the ravine and only 2 at cedar .
 

April 13, 2019, 05:57:11 AM
Reply #21
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Nigel Evans


Exactly Chivruay and Korovina group shows us a pettern that people act on their own when they face death. I don't see activity except for the 2 at cedar. Other 4 were in my opinion separate from the fire for reasons unknown..maybe Zolotaryov argued that much better strategy is to find shelter instead of building fire and they just split. If I was there I would choose to believe in the strategy of a wwII veteran and will stick to him,hence more people in the ravine and only 2 at cedar .
At the DPI i see a group of previously friendly people with a lot of energy engaged in tasks that take significant time, collecting firewood, cutting down saplings, building a fire, building a den floor (at the very least), climbing a tree. But they've abandoned their friends to die a few hundred metres away? No way it doesn't fit.
 

April 13, 2019, 06:33:25 AM
Reply #22
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Ehtnisba


If something on the slope was killing them, then yes. No point in going back to a certain death when you know 2 of your comrades are already dead there 90% . And even is nothing is killing them ,again would you go back on a suicide mission when you yourself is bare feet and with just a cowboy shirt and a vest?
Have you ever tried to go uphill in the wild  out of a track with shoes and with proper wear in winter on a terrain with rocks and ice? This is a slooow task, and if you breathe too much with open mouth you risk of getting your lungs to freeze, cough blood and die instantly even after few meters. They must have known that .... They spent 3-4 hours uphill with skis on the other day. Searchers spent whole day to go uphill with skis again. But Zina did down and up for a couple of hours with no shoes?
I am just going from my logic and what times are reported in diaries and searchers radiograms...
 

April 13, 2019, 06:43:29 AM
Reply #23
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Nigel Evans


If something on the slope was killing them, then yes. No point in going back to a certain death when you know 2 of your comrades are already dead there 90% . And even is nothing is killing them ,again would you go back on a suicide mission when you yourself is bare feet and with just a cowboy shirt and a vest?
Have you ever tried to go uphill in the wild  out of a track with shoes and with proper wear in winter on a terrain with rocks and ice? This is a slooow task, and if you breathe too much with open mouth you risk of getting your lungs to freeze, cough blood and die instantly even after few meters. They must have known that .... They spent 3-4 hours uphill with skis on the other day. Searchers spent whole day to go uphill with skis again. But Zina did down and up for a couple of hours with no shoes?
I am just going from my logic and what times are reported in diaries and searchers radiograms...
But the lack of frostbite indicates it wasn't that cold. Nicolai's jacket unfastened and gloves in pockets. Semyon's jacket unfastened at the top. Lyudmila in socks but no frostbite. Rustem only had one boot but no frostbite on his feet.
 

April 13, 2019, 07:11:54 AM
Reply #24
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Ehtnisba


That is another mystery too , gloves in pockets and no frostbite. But have in mind that the frostbite needs time to develop. You must be alive . At the beginning frostbite is just abnormally white-pale blue skin, numbness and lack of blood if you tear the skin in said frostbiten area.
 

April 13, 2019, 08:18:31 AM
Reply #25
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Teddy

Administrator
How do you explain that Dyatlov was wearing something (a vest) that didn't belong to him?
 

April 13, 2019, 08:28:11 AM
Reply #26
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Nigel Evans


That is another mystery too , gloves in pockets and no frostbite. But have in mind that the frostbite needs time to develop. You must be alive . At the beginning frostbite is just abnormally white-pale blue skin, numbness and lack of blood if you tear the skin in said frostbiten area.
This in 3 hours - https://mashable.com/2015/03/18/australian-frostbite-canada/?europe=true#92Bdhb_0ZGq7
 

April 13, 2019, 08:30:35 AM
Reply #27
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Nigel Evans


How do you explain that Dyatlov was wearing something (a vest) that didn't belong to him?
Hiya.

From Yuri D? Why does that need an explanation?
 

April 13, 2019, 08:39:39 AM
Reply #28
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Teddy

Administrator
Dyatlov could be almost to the cedar when he is tied and dragged until stuck in the bush and left there to die of cold.

Don't know how did I get separated by so many posts, I thought I am right behind Ehtnisba. If Dyatoov never made it ot the fire when did he get the vest from Doroshenko?
 

April 13, 2019, 08:51:37 AM
Reply #29
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Puchiko


Dyatlov could be almost to the cedar when he is tied and dragged until stuck in the bush and left there to die of cold.

Don't know how did I get separated by so many posts, I thought I am right behind Ehtnisba. If Dyatoov never made it ot the fire when did he get the vest from Doroshenko?
I'm highly sceptical of any murder theory, but the vest in itself might be a red herring. People share clothes on camping trips all the time, Igor could have been wearing it all day. It wasn't even really Doroshenko's - Yuri Yudin lent it to Doroshenko before he turned back.