August 13, 2022, 11:23:24 PM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: The tent was near the cedar. There was an attack  (Read 9203 times)

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April 18, 2021, 02:11:58 PM
Reply #30
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sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Anyway, I watched this video with auto-translation, it is mostly understandable...

Recommend for everyone to watch it, I held some suspicions and questions about this case for a long time and he raises some of the same points and some other information I haven't heard before.

Here is my very rough summary: he says the group camped near the cedar, Tibo and Semyon were on night watch, sitting by a campfire and filling the stove in the tent with fir branches throughout the night. Then in the morning, they were attacked by unknown attackers. Someone, I didn't understand who, then moved the tent to the slope, threw in all the groups belongings hastily, but didn't have time to move some of the bodies. The search couldn't be delayed further because the families were making a noise... Then the searchers found the tent and all the bodies, in the video a note is shown that has small dashes for each body, and there are 4 dashes in the ravine area and an arrow with a question mark... If I understand correctly Gildar is saying this indicated they were all found, however there was the communist party congress, and the international ice skating competition happening in Sverdlovsk, and to avoid bad publicity they didn't want a huge murder story to circulate, so the worst injured were buried in the ravine area, so the incident can be treated as an accident.

This is from the video not my own ideas. He also raises other interesting points, including saying that Mansi presence is almost certain, the hikers write about following a Mansi trail and someone's testimony, didn't understand who but maybe the forester, says that the chum was made after the incident and also he saw wide ski tracks near the chum, so Gildar is saying Mansi must have been present, not that they attacked the group but they must have seen them and were perhaps the ones to report the incident. If the auto-translation is not wrong, there is also mention of moose tracks. He also talks about the photos taken above the treeline and where these could have been taken (and what areas can be excluded), which is important. He also shows that Mansi trails were not some random hunter following game, but these are regularly traveled routes that were even indicated on maps from that time, although the map he shows is of an area to the south (south-west of Vizhay).


Overall, no speculation about who attacked the hikers or why, I also didn't understand that part very well but maybe he says there could have been internal conflict in the group.

The part I didn't understand at all is about the event 17km from the pass, if someone understands that part please post about that.

Well I havnt watched the video. But by all accounts its about the Tent being moved up the Mountainside a mile away. Doesnt make sense. Also doesnt explain the extraordinary injuries to some of the Dyatlov Group.
DB
 

April 18, 2021, 06:44:46 PM
Reply #31
Offline

Manti


Anyway, I watched this video with auto-translation, it is mostly understandable...

Recommend for everyone to watch it, I held some suspicions and questions about this case for a long time and he raises some of the same points and some other information I haven't heard before.

Here is my very rough summary: he says the group camped near the cedar, Tibo and Semyon were on night watch, sitting by a campfire and filling the stove in the tent with fir branches throughout the night. Then in the morning, they were attacked by unknown attackers. Someone, I didn't understand who, then moved the tent to the slope, threw in all the groups belongings hastily, but didn't have time to move some of the bodies. The search couldn't be delayed further because the families were making a noise... Then the searchers found the tent and all the bodies, in the video a note is shown that has small dashes for each body, and there are 4 dashes in the ravine area and an arrow with a question mark... If I understand correctly Gildar is saying this indicated they were all found, however there was the communist party congress, and the international ice skating competition happening in Sverdlovsk, and to avoid bad publicity they didn't want a huge murder story to circulate, so the worst injured were buried in the ravine area, so the incident can be treated as an accident.

This is from the video not my own ideas. He also raises other interesting points, including saying that Mansi presence is almost certain, the hikers write about following a Mansi trail and someone's testimony, didn't understand who but maybe the forester, says that the chum was made after the incident and also he saw wide ski tracks near the chum, so Gildar is saying Mansi must have been present, not that they attacked the group but they must have seen them and were perhaps the ones to report the incident. If the auto-translation is not wrong, there is also mention of moose tracks. He also talks about the photos taken above the treeline and where these could have been taken (and what areas can be excluded), which is important. He also shows that Mansi trails were not some random hunter following game, but these are regularly traveled routes that were even indicated on maps from that time, although the map he shows is of an area to the south (south-west of Vizhay).


Overall, no speculation about who attacked the hikers or why, I also didn't understand that part very well but maybe he says there could have been internal conflict in the group.

The part I didn't understand at all is about the event 17km from the pass, if someone understands that part please post about that.

Well I havnt watched the video. But by all accounts its about the Tent being moved up the Mountainside a mile away. Doesnt make sense. Also doesnt explain the extraordinary injuries to some of the Dyatlov Group.
I would still say it's worth watching it.


His theory does include the tent being moved up the mountainside... if someone just told me this in isolation I would also say it makes no sense. But, he is quite sceptical about many aspects of the case and raises a lot of important points and questions commonly held misbeliefs. It might have been lost in translation but I don't think he even explains why the tent was moved or by whom. It's not a central part of his theory.


One of the things he talks about, which has been a suspicion of mine for a while, is that the group might not have been moving towards Otorten but rather might have turned back. This can in fact be supported by a certain interpretation of the evidence. It's not even that nobody has thought about this interpretation, it's just that that part of the evidence seems to be mostly ignored by most. But not Gildar.

Overall I don't necessarily agree with his theory (it's incomplete anyway), but he does provide an alternative point of view that seems as grounded in evidence as other views, if not more..
 

April 19, 2021, 12:01:23 PM
Reply #32
Offline

sarapuk

Case-Files Achievement Recipient
Anyway, I watched this video with auto-translation, it is mostly understandable...

Recommend for everyone to watch it, I held some suspicions and questions about this case for a long time and he raises some of the same points and some other information I haven't heard before.

Here is my very rough summary: he says the group camped near the cedar, Tibo and Semyon were on night watch, sitting by a campfire and filling the stove in the tent with fir branches throughout the night. Then in the morning, they were attacked by unknown attackers. Someone, I didn't understand who, then moved the tent to the slope, threw in all the groups belongings hastily, but didn't have time to move some of the bodies. The search couldn't be delayed further because the families were making a noise... Then the searchers found the tent and all the bodies, in the video a note is shown that has small dashes for each body, and there are 4 dashes in the ravine area and an arrow with a question mark... If I understand correctly Gildar is saying this indicated they were all found, however there was the communist party congress, and the international ice skating competition happening in Sverdlovsk, and to avoid bad publicity they didn't want a huge murder story to circulate, so the worst injured were buried in the ravine area, so the incident can be treated as an accident.

This is from the video not my own ideas. He also raises other interesting points, including saying that Mansi presence is almost certain, the hikers write about following a Mansi trail and someone's testimony, didn't understand who but maybe the forester, says that the chum was made after the incident and also he saw wide ski tracks near the chum, so Gildar is saying Mansi must have been present, not that they attacked the group but they must have seen them and were perhaps the ones to report the incident. If the auto-translation is not wrong, there is also mention of moose tracks. He also talks about the photos taken above the treeline and where these could have been taken (and what areas can be excluded), which is important. He also shows that Mansi trails were not some random hunter following game, but these are regularly traveled routes that were even indicated on maps from that time, although the map he shows is of an area to the south (south-west of Vizhay).


Overall, no speculation about who attacked the hikers or why, I also didn't understand that part very well but maybe he says there could have been internal conflict in the group.

The part I didn't understand at all is about the event 17km from the pass, if someone understands that part please post about that.

Well I havnt watched the video. But by all accounts its about the Tent being moved up the Mountainside a mile away. Doesnt make sense. Also doesnt explain the extraordinary injuries to some of the Dyatlov Group.
I would still say it's worth watching it.


His theory does include the tent being moved up the mountainside... if someone just told me this in isolation I would also say it makes no sense. But, he is quite sceptical about many aspects of the case and raises a lot of important points and questions commonly held misbeliefs. It might have been lost in translation but I don't think he even explains why the tent was moved or by whom. It's not a central part of his theory.


One of the things he talks about, which has been a suspicion of mine for a while, is that the group might not have been moving towards Otorten but rather might have turned back. This can in fact be supported by a certain interpretation of the evidence. It's not even that nobody has thought about this interpretation, it's just that that part of the evidence seems to be mostly ignored by most. But not Gildar.

Overall I don't necessarily agree with his theory (it's incomplete anyway), but he does provide an alternative point of view that seems as grounded in evidence as other views, if not more..

But its not even Evidence. We have no Evidence just speculation about that particular scenario.
DB
 

April 19, 2021, 04:08:56 PM
Reply #33
Offline

Manti


Well, there is some (overlooked) hard evidence. Anyway, it's explained in the video.
 

February 11, 2022, 10:01:11 AM
Reply #34
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Charles


Dear Jean Daniel Reuss
I now believe that the murderers were in the special settlement 41.
Yes, it is very probable. And according to the hikers, the settlement was marking a kind of limit between "civilisation" and wilderness. If Dyatlov's hikers met District 41 coming from the wild back to civilisation, they would have risked no harm. But coming from civilisation and entering wilderness, the human content and meaning of their stopover at District 41 become essential. If we want to know what happened on the ridge, we should know what happened at District 41.

And according to the diaries, it was pure erotic pantomine. The workers even  took a day off to stay with the group of hikers and their two girls... In the group of hikers there was already an atmosphere of advanced flirting, rivalry, seduction, even humiliation... Group Diary of January 24 says : "Discussion about love provoked by Z. Kolmogorova." Zinaida's Diary of 26.1.59 says : "I, as always, was approached by some countryman. We arrived at the 41st settlement. (...) Many workers are very talented, intelligent people. Especially "the beard", his beard is ginger, ginger, and his eyes are also ginger, and brown." Lyda's Diary of 24 january says : "we started to discuss love issues, talking about kisses in particular. We talked all kinds of nonsense, of course; everyone was interested (…) Zhenya often picks on me, sometimes he even says offensive things. He seem to consider me foolish. It's my fault that I like to add fuel to the fire, damn me."... In Dyatlov's group, boys and girls were provoking each other, and rivalry, frustration and resentment was already established. When they arrived at District 41, they instantly contaminated the exclusively male local community with the erotic  atmosphere of their own small community. It is perfectly realistic to assert that the group of young free, rich, sexy tourists coming from the city may have triggered violent erotic desire, violent frustration and humiliation, and violent desire of revenge. Yes they played mandolin, sang romantic songs and even danced together among the joyous laughter : but it was a cruel display of unreachable happiness, the bitter taste of a forbidden life... The hikers were townspeople, tourists, strangers... but the workers of District 41 were pure locals, raised in the Taïga, fluent in Mansi language, at home in the mountains... easy for a handful of them to take advantage on and revenge from the rookies.

If the Dyatlow group was murdered, it is indeed very likely it was by locals of District 41, either Russian or Mansi. And further, their are many known cases of hikers or travelers killed by locals when crossing their territory. It was even a Biblical command : "Don't kill the stranger ! Don't ambush the stranger !" This is an old, very old story...

Regards

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.