Theories Discussion > General Discussion
Questions on Lyuda's body position
amashilu:
Ziljoe writes: With the extent of the broken ribs , I don't think anyone would be moving them, it is most likely that how ever these injuries were sustained, it was in/at the ravine.
I agree. This has to be the site of at least Lyuda's death -- and probably the other three. After Lyuda's heart injury, she died within minutes.
What interests me is her body position. How did she get in this position?
1) Her ribs were broken when she was lying down at the stream and one of them pierced her heart. Then she "got up" and kneeled against the ledge with her arms up.
2) She was already kneeling there when her ribs were broken and one pierced her heart and she just died like that.
3) She was injured and died elsewhere (even just feet away), then someone dragged her by the armpits to the ledge and positioned her body against it, with the arms up. (As improbable as this seems, several other hikers have their arms up, as if they had been dragged.)
4) Other possibilities?
When you die, your muscles go limp. Why did her arms stay up on the ledge? Her right arm in particular is in a position that would need some tone in the shoulder to maintain its location. Wouldn't her arms have immediately gone limp and fallen back? I'm sure her arms could have stayed up after her body froze, but what about immediately after death?
Ziljoe:
Good questions amashilu and something to think about.
How could her body be in that position, if dead and placed by the other hikers or outsiders , how on earth did her arms not drop down to her sides?
It's actually a great question and worthy of debate.
GlennM:
Slid down or dragged up?
Ziljoe:
--- Quote from: GlennM on October 08, 2024, 05:10:02 PM ---Slid down or dragged up?
--- End quote ---
If they were in a snow cave/hole formed over the ravine , could they be pulling Lynda up into the cave and that's when it collapsed? Or had Lyuda fallen through a snow bridge/ cornice and they are trying to help her out ?
The position is unusual if placed there and it doesn't fit with the body being moved with water thawing.
It looks like the body lies where the tradgedy happened, although that may not be a popular idea.
amashilu:
Try it yourself, as best you can. For example, I put myself in roughly the same position as Lyuda, and can feel the muscle tone that is holding my arms up. Then imagining my heart being stabbed while I am in this position, it seems like my arms would immediately drop and I would fall sideways. The only thing that makes sense is if she died, then some time later, someone else put her in this position, and rigor mortis and freezing set in, to keep her upright like this.
From another forum:
" ...Tumanov said Dubinina died while lying on back, and that was consistent with rigor mortis on her body - what in turn was inconsistent with how she was found. So the conclusion was she was repositioned after a death, and it happened more than 24 hours after it .....The way she looks as if she collapsed in that position doesn't line up with her chest cavity broken. It would be almost impossible to lift your arms up like that unless she received her injuries while standing."
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