August 09, 2022, 11:58:35 AM
Dyatlov Pass Forum

Author Topic: The Cedar Then/Now  (Read 30863 times)

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June 29, 2022, 06:17:23 AM
Reply #30
Online

Jean Daniel Reuss



                     Reply #27
............................
The poll/butt of this axe is already a "blunt object", no need to do any extra work:
..................................
Why go to complicated solutions when easy ones are available ?
...................................


On the contrary, it was necessary to do this extra work to not just use immediately available axes because:

1) - The injuries described (https://dyatlovpass.com/death) are not compatible with ordinary axe use because the iron of an axe is much harder and angular than a wooden blunt object whose contacting part has a rounded shape close to the sphere.

2) - Also, as I introduced in "wolverine (topic=390), Reply #59
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=390.msg17896#msg17896
the use of blunt objects made of birch wood wrapped in fabric padding is conceivable in a natural way ( especially if one thinks about the production of wolverine skin or fur).

3) - I also exclude the use of an axe handle alone, i.e. without the steel cutting part, because the weight of a handle alone is less than 1 kilogram and therefore not sufficient.
(In axes the steel part is generally heavier than the handle alone).

4) - One must therefore resign oneself to resorting to a complicated solution when no simpler one is available.


Jean Daniel Reuss

Rational guidance =

• There is nothing supernatural and mysterious about the injuries suffered by the Dyatlov group. They are all consistent with an attack by a group of professional killers who wanted to take the lives of the nine  [Per Inge Oestmoen].

• Now let us search for answers to: WHO ? WHY ? HOW ?

• The scenario must be consistent with the historical, political and psychological  contexts.

• The solution takes in consideration all known findings.
 

June 29, 2022, 06:50:36 AM
Reply #31
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Charles




On the contrary, it was necessary to do this extra work to not just use immediately available axes because:

1) - The injuries described (https://dyatlovpass.com/death) are not compatible with ordinary axe use because the iron of an axe is much harder and angular than a wooden blunt object whose contacting part has a rounded shape close to the sphere.

As you can see by yourself on the photo, the butt of this axe from Vizhay area is not "angular" at all and has a "round shape close to the sphere". It is in front of your eyes on the photo. We have to relate the eyes with the words.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 09:14:41 AM by Charles »
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
 

July 12, 2022, 03:00:36 PM
Reply #32
Online

Jean Daniel Reuss


                     Reply #31
same photo not shown
On the contrary, it was necessary to do this extra work to not just use immediately available axes because:
The injuries described (https://dyatlovpass.com/death) are not compatible with ordinary axe use because the iron of an axe is much harder .....than a wooden blunt object whose contacting part has a rounded shape close to the sphere.
=================================================================

As you can see by yourself on the photo, the butt of this axe from Vizhay area is not "angular" at all and has a "round shape close to the sphere". It is in front of your eyes on the photo. We have to relate the eyes with the words.

1) •••
Error ! :
You seem to be unaware of the complexity of the mechanics of impacts, especially in the cases where it is necessary to take into account both physical and anatomical aspects.

For its geometric shape is only one part of the characteristics of a "blunt object".

With the same energy and the same shape, the hardness parameter of the object which is the cause of the impact must not be forgotten.

In other words, from the point of view of the damage that can be detected at an autopsy, the hardness of the material of the object that strikes is an essential parameter.

We know the commonly accepted values of Brinell hardness.

Pinus sibirica = 2.0 ; Birch = 2.6
(Not wrapped in cushioning material)

Steel for striking tools such as axes or hammers = 650 to 700

(The axes in use in 1959 in the Urals came from Soviet metallurgy, which had nothing to envy to Western metallurgy).

But I would understand that these few theoretical hints to the science of shocks, which constitutes a huge body of knowledge that is still imperfectly known and in the process of being developed at present, do not seem very convincing to you.

2)  •••
I am just reading that the non-lethal defence weapon "Flash Ball LBD 40x46" sends out a spherical rubber bullet: diameter=40 mm; weight=41,8 g; speed=331 km/h which corresponds to a kinetic energy of 176.684 joules.

In your opinion, what would happen if you substituted the rubber bullet with a spherical steel bullet of the same diameter 40 mm (therefore necessarily hollow) and of the same energy 176.7 joules ?

3)  •••
These vague theoretical considerations can be advantageously replaced by some practical trials.

Take a wooden mallet and then a steel hammer (same shape, same weight) and strike objects that could represent human tissue (since there are no death row inmates for us).
You will notice a difference in the appearance of the impacts.

Or more simply, try knock in iron nails (mild steel) with a wooden mallet and then with a steel hammer.
You will also notice a difference in the easiness of doing this task.


4)  •••
Modern trappers who do not want to damage the valuable skins of trapped volverines probably use rubber truncheons rather than even rounded iron bars.


Note.
Standard Brinell hardness is measured by the depth of the indentation left by a 23 mm diameter ball weighing 1 kg dropped from a height of 50 cm. This test allows . Brinell hardness should in principle be expressed in Newton/mm². (Further consideration would be needed to match Brinell measurements with the values of other hardness scales : Rockwell, Vickers... and in particular the broader Mohs scale).


Jean Daniel Reuss

Rational guidance =

• There is nothing supernatural and mysterious about the injuries suffered by the Dyatlov group. They are all consistent with an attack by a group of professional killers who wanted to take the lives of the nine  [Per Inge Oestmoen].

• Now let us search for answers to: WHO ? WHY ? HOW ?

• The scenario must be consistent with the historical, political and psychological  contexts.

• The solution takes in consideration all known findings.
 

July 12, 2022, 09:13:27 PM
Reply #33
Offline

Charles


This butt has a round shape close to the sphere (Did I just write that? Am I going to be once again accused of Darwinism?). This axe was used in the area of Vizhay and the butt was not square and sharp, in the contrary it was rounded. Your following dissertation is just an attempt not to address reality.  quiet1

PS: I've used axes to cut wood and I've studied quanta theory in an American university. I am not such an innocent.


« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 09:51:01 PM by Charles »
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.