Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => KGB / Radiation / Military involvement => Topic started by: Ryan on January 15, 2023, 05:49:59 PM
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The part that I keep getting stuck on is chief radiologist Levashov’s report. It’s clear that all of the Ravine 4 were wearing clothing with radioactive contamination well above background, and some of the clothing samples exceeded sanitary guidelines for nuclear workers. But these are hikers, not nuclear workers, so anything significantly above background should raise eyebrows. The Ravine 4 were also the last to be discovered (according to the official records, although they may have been re-discovered if the 1079 theory is correct) and the only ones tested for radiation, at least according to extant records.
If Levashov is truthful and competent, the radiation is beta only. No alpha or gamma detected. This really should raise eyebrows because pure beta emitters are typically manmade isotopes like Sr-90. What would hikers be doing contaminated with Sr-90?
Now there is a caveat here. I remember being very surprised after a Chernobyl trip because a small amount of contamination accidentally found on clothing appeared to be beta only, when I know for a fact that the fission products left in Chernobyl mainly give off a lot of both beta and gamma due to Sr-90 and Cs-137. I later learned that the issue is Geiger counter efficiency. A Geiger counter will register a count for nearly 100% of betas that hit it (assuming they are energetic enough to get through the window), but only a small % of gammas will register a count; most gammas get ignored by the Geiger tube. The amount of contamination was small enough that the beta activity was noticeably above background, but a few percent of the the gamma activity would not register significantly above background. (A more accurate instrument like a NaI(Tl) scintillator has a much higher gamma counting efficiency, but Sverdlovsk probably didn’t have such sophisticated equipment and relied on Geiger counters.)
So it is possible that beta-gamma contamination of the clothing would be recorded as beta-only if the amount was small enough that only the beta could be detected above background. That said, alpha detection is fairly efficient, so any significant amount of alpha contamination (Radium, Thorium, Uranium) can be ruled out.
Lately, I’ve been considering the 1079 theory that the bodies were moved. Could whatever was used to move them before Ivanov’s team re-discovered them have contaminated them? Or could something have happened to them during the move that contaminated them?
Today, I had a new idea. I’m not sure if it is viable, but it can definitely be quantified.
Farmers use chemical fertilizer. Potassium is a common ingredient. For example, potash, which includes potassium compounds such as K2O. Could the bodies have been transported in a truck that carried potash? Also, potash is used for ice melting. Could people have dumped potash on the bodies to speed their thawing during the first investigation before they were brought back to the mountain? (Again, assuming the 1079 theory…)
Let’s try to quantify this. 0.0117% of all potassium is K-40, which is radioactive. K-40 has a 1.251x10^9 year half life. 10.72% of the time it decays by electron capture, emitting a gamma. 89.28% of the time it emits a beta. Yes, it’s not pure beta, but we will examine this later.
The most radioactive clothing was Dubinina’s brown sweater. I also want to double-check Levashov. This measured 640 counts per minute. The background for the instrument was 90 counts per minute. So the sweater was 550 counts per minute. Now there’s an 8.9 correction factor, so the beta activity of the sweater is 4895 cpm. The table lists it as 4900, so we are in agreement and will use that. 4900 cpm / 60 seconds/min = 81.67 Bq (beta decays per second.) If we assume this is all K-40, 81.67 / 0.8928 = 91.5 Bq of K-40 activity.
Now let’s look at electron capture decays producing a gamma. 91.5 Bq * 0.1072 * 0.03 / 8.9 * 60 seconds = 1.2 counts per minute gamma. (I’m making the assumption that the detector is 3% efficient on detecting gammas. I’m also assuming the beta efficiency is 100%, meaning the 8.9 correction factor is all due to detector geometry, and that same geometry applies to gammas.) Considering background is 90 cpm, an additional 1.2 cpm of gamma would likely be considered insignificant. Of note, soil from the site was reported at 96 cpm, so 6 cpm above background, and Levashov did not consider that significant. So I believe K-40 contamination in this amount would be reported by Levashov as beta only.
Next, we need the K-40 specific activity.
SA = (NA * ln 2) / (T1/2 * M) = (6.022E23 * 0.6931) / (1.251E9 * 365 * 24 * 3600 * 40) = 264,500 Bq / g K-40
So we can find the mass of the K-40 that will produce this activity:
91.5 / 264,500 = 346 micrograms K-40
Using the elemental abundance:
346E-6 / 0.000117 = 2.96 g K
Using the molecular weights for K2O:
2.96 g * (39*2+16)/(39*2) = 3.56 g K20
We know Dubinina’s sweater sample was 75 cm^2. So if it was contaminated with 3.6 g potash at the time of discovery, this would exactly explain the radioactivity. That said, that seems like more than one would pick up via trace contamination. I question whether a wheelbarrow that previously held potash would transfer 3.6 g potash to 75 cm^2 of clothing if used to transport the body.
But is it possible that people tried to deice the Ravine 4 bodies with potash or another substance containing potassium, such as potassium chloride? That seems like it might transfer the necessary amounts to their clothing such that if the bodies were then returned to the site and dumped in the ravine, the clothing would still be radioactive.
I’m still a little wary about water solubility, e.g. that the potash or KCl stayed in their clothes and didn’t wash away during the running water in the ravine, as I think they would be water soluble. Also, it must have really got into the clothing, because washing the clothes in the lab in cold water for 3 hours only removed 30-60% of the radioactivity.
Also, it doesn’t explain why anyone on Ivanov’s team would have a Geiger counter and use it to check the bodies for radiation in the first place.
Still, potassium is one simple explanation for the bizarre beta-only results that Levashov observed, which doesn’t require a purified manmade isotope like Sr-90.
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Some more thoughts along these lines:
Potassium is right below sodium on the periodic table and is similar in properties. Sodium hydroxide, NaOH, is commonly known as lye, and people trying to make bodies disappear have attempted to dissolve them in lye. Potassium hydroxide, KOH, is likewise a strong base known as caustic potash.
I’ve admittedly not finished the 1079 book but have been skimming various parts of it. From what I’ve read, the idea is that a tree fell on the tent, (most of) the bodies were discovered soon after, and there was concern that the tree falling could be blamed on geologic prospecting with explosives, so the tent was moved and the scene staged to make it look like the hikers left their tent and died of hypothermia.
The Ravine 4 include the three most seriously injured bodies. What if they were not intended to be found, as their injuries would contradict the hypothermia story that was being staged? So they were dumped in the ravine, and caustic potash was dumped on them in an unsuccessful attempt to speed their decomposition? But Ivanov’s team found them anyway.
Then, if we assume someone in Ivanov’s group had a Geiger counter, all the potassium dumped on these four bodies would have set it off, prompting the radiological examination of these four, and this would be consistent with the reported results. It follows that the remaining five bodies would not have been covered with caustic potash, so they would not set off a Geiger counter if they were scanned.
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I like the basic idea you had there.
I've been skimming through wikipedia for a while now, but all chemical compounds of potash I found were either easily soluable in water or react rather violently with water.
I'm not sure, how that would work, taking into account the amounts of snow and the thawing creek, the corpses were found in...
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You’re right, most potassium compounds that don’t react violently with water are going to be very water soluble. Still, if a lot of potassium hydroxide was used, this still might be possible.
I know more about radioactivity and radioactive measurement than I do general chemistry. I don’t know if this is possible, but it does seem plausible to me. Specifically:
We are dealing with a “conspiracy” that isn’t well educated in forensics or body disposal. They are making decisions as they go, rather than executing a careful plan. They are under a lot of pressure and make big mistakes.
The bodies are in Ivdel. They’ve been washed, dressed in new clothes, and suddenly there’s a rush to strip them, put them in their original clothing (which is done haphazardly because nobody was sure who was wearing what, and some was cut off), and take them back to stage.
Once they get on site, and are moving the tent to the new location, someone realizes the foolishness of the plan. Dubinina and Zolotaryov have had their chests crushed, Thibeaux-Brignolle has a crushed skull, and Kolevatov had neck and facial wounds, none of which look like the hypothermia deaths they want to stage. (Slobodin’s skull injuries may not be visible to the group, so his body was deemed presentable for the hypothermia ruse.)
People who have seen too many bad movies think that a caustic like lye will dissolve bodies. Caustic potash is the closest chemical that anyone has on hand, so the four bodies are dumped in the ravine, tens of kilograms of KOH are dumped on them, snow is shoveled on top, and they figure (incorrectly) that they succeeded.
Meanwhile, the KOH drops the freezing point of the water. Some snow melts, forms a supersaturated solution, which is exothermic as KOH dissociates, and melts more snow until all the KOH is in solution, and soaks into the clothing. Then the overall cold causes everything to freeze. (And it also prevents the KOH from dissolving the bodies as planned.) The bodies stay this way essentially until spring. There may be some snow melt, which may carry more KOH into the clothing, or which might wash some away.)
Ivanov’s team (re)discovers these bodies while they are still frozen. He wants to get them to Ivdel before they can thaw. As they do thaw, the frozen KOH solution that was absorbed by the fibers in the clothing becomes liquid, and eventually evaporates, leaving KOH in the fibers.
This has the unusual side effect of making all the clothing that absorbed the KOH measurably radioactive.
We need 3 g of K in the 75 cm2 sample of Dubinina’s sweater. Given the atomic weights, that means 3g * ((39+16+1)/39) = 4.3g KOH. KOH is soluble in 0 C water at 97 g / 100 mL. So the 75 cm^2 sweater sample only needs to retain 4.3 mL of saturated KOH solution. That seems reasonable it could retain that much moisture before the water evaporated and it dried, leaving KOH in the fibers.
Yes, there was snow melt and parts of the bodies were found in running water. That could certainly wash KOH away. But not all of the bodies are going to be washed uniformly. Any area not washed, or whose geometry would lend itself to retaining the KOH, would yield hot spots. How the sampling of the clothing was done at Sverdlovsk was not stated, but I think it likely that they used a handheld Geiger counter on the clothing and tried to pick samples to measure that were hot.
I’m also concerned because several cloth samples were washed for 3 hours under cold running water and measured again, but significant amounts of the radioisotope(s) remained. Maybe certain fibers hold on to certain things better than others? I’m not sure.
But ultimately, this does provide a simple explanation for the radioactivity that integrates with the theory in the 1079 book. It does not require the military detonating dirty bombs dispersing Sr-90. Its plausibility can be tested. I can picture MythBusters doing experiments with potassium hydroxide, snow, a deep freezer, and fiber samples. Forensic experts can be consulted to determine what would happen in this kind of botched body disposal scenario. It would also be interesting to know about the availability of potassium hydroxide in that part of the Soviet Union.
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Go ahead and ask the Myth Busters. I'd watch it. thumb1
But if I understand your theory correctly, the KOH should be distributed equally across all clothes and especially all parts of the clothes. As far as I remember, there were only some hot spots as in there are areas that are radioactive and those that aren't. That doesn't go well with your theory, does it?
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This is a complex environment to model, and I don’t believe the contamination from KOH would be uniform. Specifically, snow melt and running water. As you pointed out, solubility in water is an issue. I imagine the clothing all started with a very high amount of KOH, but clothing exposed to the most running water would be most likely to have lower KOH concentration over time.
Also, it can’t be said whether the contamination was spotty or not based on the case files. All we know is that all the hikers’ clothing (as it existed when found by Ivanov’s team) was presented to the lab, they chose 9 samples to study, with at least one from each hiker found in the ravine, and all 9 had varying levels of contamination ranging from 600 to 9900 counts per 150 cm^2. We don’t know if some clothes were completely clean, or if everything was contaminated. It is possible the sampling was random, it which case it is very likely that just about everything was contaminated to some degree. It is also also possible they used a handheld Geiger counter to “cherry pick” the hottest samples from all four hikers, in which case some clothing might be completely clean. Nothing is said about the sampling methodology in the file.
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I recently did some math on the radiation report numbers and realized that potassium might explain the radiation if we assume the Sverdlovsk lab only had simple Geiger counters.
I’m wondering if this could integrate with your 1079 theory. Let’s say the people staging the tent and bodies decided at the last minute that four bodies were too damaged to look like hypothermia, so they were dumped in the ravine and covered with potassium hydroxide, a.k.a. caustic potash, which is chemically very similar to lye, in an unsuccessful attempt to dissolve them. This clearly didn’t work, but it did make their clothing mildly radioactive.
This is a quote from Ryan's email to me from today.
They could have been covered like spread over, the clothes that were contaminated belonged to two people only https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy#radioactiveclothes (https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy#radioactiveclothes).
It was not common at all at the time to test for radiation. One big mystery in this case is why Lev Ivanov asked for anything to be tested on first place? Nothing on the bodies suggested death by exposure to radiation. How would the conspirators fathom that the severe injuries would be attributed to radiation?
But this case is such a mess that one can throw anything in the mix. Take off from the bodies three pieces of clothing, tear them up, dip them in whatever you say, put them back on the bodies, wait for Lev Ivanov to have a revelation to test them... Why didn't he test the first bodies found in February-March? Or if he didn't test those why would he test the bodies found in May?
Igor Pavlov had a theory about this which I will post a little later since I am waiting for a filming crew. They are not filming me though, but the dendrologist who is bringing the results of testing the tree cores I brought form the pass. He is coming with an operator since I said I can not repeat what he says, so we are going to film it.
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I’ve admittedly not finished the 1079 book but have been skimming various parts of it. From what I’ve read, the idea is that a tree fell on the tent, (most of) the bodies were discovered soon after, and there was concern that the tree falling could be blamed on geologic prospecting with explosives, so the tent was moved and the scene staged to make it look like the hikers left their tent and died of hypothermia.
The Ravine 4 include the three most seriously injured bodies. What if they were not intended to be found, as their injuries would contradict the hypothermia story that was being staged? So they were dumped in the ravine, and caustic potash was dumped on them in an unsuccessful attempt to speed their decomposition? But Ivanov’s team found them anyway.
Then, if we assume someone in Ivanov’s group had a Geiger counter, all the potassium dumped on these four bodies would have set it off, prompting the radiological examination of these four, and this would be consistent with the reported results. It follows that the remaining five bodies would not have been covered with caustic potash, so they would not set off a Geiger counter if they were scanned.
Wow. If only Igor were alive to comment on this. It's a very interesting idea.
Only till now I imagined the conspirators didn't mean to do something so horrific but wanted the bodies to be found only tried to avoid implication. Poring chemicals to speed the decomposition of the corpses kind of crosses the line.
Let me take care of the shooting and I will get back to it.
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Then, if we assume someone in Ivanov’s group had a Geiger counter, all the potassium dumped on these four bodies would have set it off, prompting the radiological examination of these four, and this would be consistent with the reported results. It follows that the remaining five bodies would not have been covered with caustic potash, so they would not set off a Geiger counter if they were scanned.
It didn't just happened someone to have Geiger counter, it was a big device back in the days, and Kikoin, a professor in 1959 (https://dyatlovpass.com/whois#kikoin) was called on purpose. The question is why. It was a not a routine practice to bring a device like that. You needed to make a request and it comes with an expert.
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It didn't just happened someone to have Geiger counter, it was a big device back in the days, and Kikoin, a professor in 1959 (https://dyatlovpass.com/whois#kikoin) was called on purpose. The question is why. It was a not a routine practice to bring a device like that. You needed to make a request and it comes with an expert.
The rest is correct but Kikoin had nothing to do with the testing of the bodies for radiation. He was at the pass in March. I had to read my own book.
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They could have been covered like spread over, the clothes that were contaminated belonged to two people only https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy#radioactiveclothes (https://dyatlovpass.com/controversy#radioactiveclothes).
Thanks, Teddy, for the responses.
I believe there is a serious misunderstanding around Levashov’s radiation testing report. Radiation measurement is a part of my university studies. I have had coursework specific to the kind of data presented in Levashov’s report.
https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-371-377?rbid=17743
Levashov tested 9 clothing samples, with at least one piece of clothing from each of the four ravine bodies. The results show that all nine clothing samples had radioactive contamination on them that significantly exceeded the natural background radiation one would expect to measure.
Levashov then subtracted the background, corrected for detector efficiency and geometry, and produced a normalized number of beta counts per minute for a 150 cm^2 sample. The 9 clothing samples had results ranging from 600 to 9900. Again, this is after background was subtracted. These results are all statistically significant.
It appears the Soviet nuclear industry has a sanitation standard, where >= 5000 counts per minute per 150 cm^2 is in acceptable for nuclear workers. According to that standard, three of the nine clothing samples, worn by just two of the hikers (Kolevatov and Dubinina) met or exceeded the limit. That does not mean Zolotaryov and Thibault-Brignoles weren’t contaminated! It just means that their clothing wasn’t contaminated beyond what a nuclear worker could acceptably receive in a shift.
But these are hikers, not nuclear workers! Any significant radioactive contamination should be cause to question what happened. This is especially true when one considers that the radiation measured was beta only, which excludes common naturally occurring alpha emitters like radium, thorium, and uranium.
So please, let’s stop the misinformation that only two of the ravine bodies were contaminated. All nine pieces of clothing on all four hikers were measurably contaminated! Some were just more contaminated than others.
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It didn't just happened someone to have Geiger counter, it was a big device back in the days, and Kikoin, a professor in 1959 (https://dyatlovpass.com/whois#kikoin) was called on purpose. The question is why. It was a not a routine practice to bring a device like that. You needed to make a request and it comes with an expert.
Geiger counters for surveying radiation would have been man-portable at the time. I believe this model military Geiger counter might have been available in 1959:
http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/southrad/russian-dp5a.html
Still, search and rescue workers travel light and take nothing unnecessary. One of the things that stunned me most about the DPI is why anyone would have even thought to test the bodies for radiation.
I don’t know why Kikoin would have been called in to test the bodies for radiation. But it seems clear that once the bodies were determined to be radioactive, criminal procedure seems to obligate Ivanov to have Levashov perform the tests that he did on the bodies and on the clothing at his Sverdlovsk lab.
Given that the bodies were recovered at different times, is it known whether any Geiger counter scans were attempted on any of the first five bodies found?
Given that all four bodies in the ravine had contaminated clothing, it begs the question of whether the other 5 did too and they just weren’t tested, or if the radiation was confined to the ravine.
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You are definitely right concerning the contamination of the samples. But I think that the expert stated that not all parts of the clothes were radioactive.
As stated in the conclusion, there is a contamination of radioactive substances (substance) by the beta emitters of individual, selectable areas of clothing, sent samples.
This is from the additional questions posed on the expert as you can find in the case files: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-371-377?rbid=17743
(https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-371-377?rbid=17743)
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Wow. If only Igor were alive to comment on this. It's a very interesting idea.
Only till now I imagined the conspirators didn't mean to do something so horrific but wanted the bodies to be found only tried to avoid implication. Poring chemicals to speed the decomposition of the corpses kind of crosses the line.
Let me take care of the shooting and I will get back to it.
I agree, this is pretty dark and sinister. My thought process here was essentially working backwards:
Your 1079 theory explains so much about the injuries and ties up a lot of loose ends, but I really want a satisfying explanation for the radiation. Levashov’s report on radiation is so specific, quantified, and unusual that I can’t just dismiss it. There is no reason for him to lie (and criminal penalties if he did.)
Most common radioactive substances (radium watches, thorium lantern mantles, uranium) primarily emit alpha, and can be eliminated.
Man-made pure beta emitters like Sr-90 are not obtainable by the general public and don’t just randomly contaminate people. Nuclear tests, dirty bombs, etc. require vast military conspiracies to explain. I’d like to see a relatively simple answer.
I realized naturally occurring potassium is radioactive, and after doing some math, saw that while it is a beta and gamma emitter, the gamma dose associated with the beta doses Levashov was measuring would not be measurable with the Geiger counters they have.
The most radioactive clothing found, Dubinina’s brown sweater, would need 3 grams of elemental potassium retained in 75 cm^2 of fabric.
My first thought was that the bodies could have been exposed to potassium if they were moved in a wheelbarrow that previously held fertilizer. But it doesn’t seem like that would transfer enough, especially considering potassium is water soluble, and the bodies were subjected to snow melt and running water.
Then I started thinking that maybe the bodies were intentionally covered with a whole lot of a potassium containing chemical. Why? To melt ice seemed like one idea, but would that really be necessary when the bodies could thaw naturally?
Then I realized that KOH is pretty much the same as lye (NaOH), which has a reputation in fiction for dissolving bodies. (In practice, it often doesn’t work that well.) Someone trying to stage a scene suggesting hikers leaving their tent and dying of hypothermia might want the most obvious bodies injured by trauma, which would contradict that narrative, to disappear. This could explain why these bodies were found in the ravine, and why they were mildly but noticeably radioactive with beta particles (the K-40 naturally occurring in the potassium.)
A caustic chemical like KOH won’t dissolve the bodies like the people staging this mistakenly believe, but it may have physical effects too. I’m also wondering if this might explain Dubinina’s missing eyes and tongue. I am very well aware that animal predation could also cause this. But a caustic chemical could dissolve some exposed soft flesh, and additionally could account for the more advanced decomposition Ivanov noted in these four bodies.
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You are definitely right concerning the contamination of the samples. But I think that the expert stated that not all parts of the clothes were radioactive.
As stated in the conclusion, there is a contamination of radioactive substances (substance) by the beta emitters of individual, selectable areas of clothing, sent samples.
This is from the additional questions posed on the expert as you can find in the case files: https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-371-377?rbid=17743
(https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-371-377?rbid=17743)
That would make sense. I don’t expect every square centimeter of every piece of clothing to be radioactive.
My primary concern is that I see people claim only Dubinina and Kolevatov wore contaminated clothing. That is not correct. All four wore contaminated clothing. Dubinina and Kolevatov happened to exceed safe levels for nuclear workers. But these are not nuclear workers, these are hikers, so any significant contamination of their clothing, regardless of whether it rises to that level, is very unusual.
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First of all, great work in this thread, Ryan! thumb1
Let me make sure I understand the gist of your hypothesis. You propose that the beta radiation detected in the Ravine 4's clothing was merely due to naturally occurring K-40, and that the reason said clothing was emitting a substantial amount of beta radiation is that it had been exposed to a LARGE amount of some potassium compound (specifically, KOH). Correct?
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Thanks. That’s exactly what I’m proposing.
A pure beta emitter, energetic enough to be detected by Geiger counters, could explain the results. But most of these are man-made isotopes like Sr-90. This crosses a certain line; these isotopes are so unobtainable that it would likely require a really big military conspiracy.
K-40 opens up an additional natural option to explain the results. While K-40 is a beta and gamma emitter, given the low gamma to beta ratio of K-40 and Geiger tubes have approx. 3% sensitivity to gammas vs. near 100% for energetic betas, this still works. At the levels of beta found on the Ravine 4’s clothing, the gamma would be below the level of detection.
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Quote from Ryan:
A caustic chemical like KOH won’t dissolve the bodies like the people staging this mistakenly believe, but it may have physical effects too. I’m also wondering if this might explain Dubinina’s missing eyes and tongue. I am very well aware that animal predation could also cause this. But a caustic chemical could dissolve some exposed soft flesh, and additionally could account for the more advanced decomposition Ivanov noted in these four bodies.
This is an intriguing line of thought, Ryan. I was rereading your posts and as I got to the ones where you postulate that the Rav4 were tossed into the ravine and had KOH dumped on them to speed up decomposition, I also wondered if the KOH could be responsible for the missing eyes and tongue, as they are such soft tissue and would dissolve quickly. It is a horrible idea, but it does makes sense. To do this, somebody would have to be really desperate to cover something up.
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Quote from Ryan:
A caustic chemical like KOH won’t dissolve the bodies like the people staging this mistakenly believe, but it may have physical effects too. I’m also wondering if this might explain Dubinina’s missing eyes and tongue. I am very well aware that animal predation could also cause this. But a caustic chemical could dissolve some exposed soft flesh, and additionally could account for the more advanced decomposition Ivanov noted in these four bodies.
This is an intriguing line of thought, Ryan. I was rereading your posts and as I got to the ones where you postulate that the Rav4 were tossed into the ravine and had KOH dumped on them to speed up decomposition, I also wondered if the KOH could be responsible for the missing eyes and tongue, as they are such soft tissue and would dissolve quickly. It is a horrible idea, but it does makes sense. To do this, somebody would have to be really desperate to cover something up.
I fully agree that Ryan has done excellent work investigating radiation aspect of DP mystery. Indeed, his idea about using KOH to get rid of the bodies sounds horrible. Fortunately, the reality should not be that bad. The idea to get the corpses back to the spot and dissolve them in the vicinity of search party camp is not a good one. Corpses could be securely dismissed somewhere else, e.g in crematorium. It's very risky to return the bodies into search area and hope that KOH will do its job quickly and completely.
Original Ryan's idea that manmade isotope like Sr-90 might be the culprit sounds more promising.
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Its a very good article by Ryan. Well done. This radiation issue has had a few of us scratching our heads over the years. Always good to have new and interesting input. Lots of investigators try to fit things
together in much the same way that lots of mathematicians try to fit complicated equations together to arrive at their own particular theory. Its always best to keep to the facts in these matters. And unfortunately we just dont have a lot of facts that can shed light on what actually happened. We know that when the searchers arrived a geiger counter was used in the search. This in itself is unusual. In fact it should ring alarm bells loud and clear. Why was a geiger counter being used to search for missing hikers. Now the particular model being used would have picked up Beta radiation as well as other radiation. So before we get into types of radiation we need to know more about the reasons for having the detector there in the first place.
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I do not remember, when the geiger counter was first used and by whom. A (very quick) search didn't give any results. So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
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So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
Sorry, but both ideas seem to be wrong.
The key point is that they had found something, when they peformed chemical examination of biological fragments of the 5 first hikers' bodies. The samples arrived to the medical lab in Sverdlovsk on March 10th. Obviously, examination had been completed, but we do not have any results in the case files. Since any radioactive material is a chemical element after all, chemical test should detect in a human body presense of such "unusual" elements like uranium, strontium, etc. Obviously, something like that was detected. And starting from here remarkable chain of events has started:
- Ivanov was sent to the DP with advanced radiation detector -- bulky, highly sensitive, usable for all types of radiation.
- On completing the measurements, Ivanov and Kikoin were asked to return to Sverdlovsk asap -- special helicopter flight was organized to the pass and back on March 15th.
- In Sverdlovsk Ivanov was asked to switch the investigation to high secrecy mode, he had never discussed the details with anybody since then.
- Members of the investigation team were checked for radioactivity impact, no results had been shared with them.
As no results had been shared, Ivanov probably decided to obtain a result himself -- ordered radioactivity test for the last 4 bodies. The 5 first had not been available, they had been buried already.
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I do not remember, when the geiger counter was first used and by whom. A (very quick) search didn't give any results. So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
There was no Geiger counter in the Dyatlov Groups Inventory. As I have pointed out before there must have been a reason for a Geiger counter or counters to be used in the search.
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So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
Sorry, but both ideas seem to be wrong.
The key point is that they had found something, when they peformed chemical examination of biological fragments of the 5 first hikers' bodies. The samples arrived to the medical lab in Sverdlovsk on March 10th. Obviously, examination had been completed, but we do not have any results in the case files. Since any radioactive material is a chemical element after all, chemical test should detect in a human body presense of such "unusual" elements like uranium, strontium, etc. Obviously, something like that was detected. And starting from here remarkable chain of events has started:
- Ivanov was sent to the DP with advanced radiation detector -- bulky, highly sensitive, usable for all types of radiation.
- On completing the measurements, Ivanov and Kikoin were asked to return to Sverdlovsk asap -- special helicopter flight was organized to the pass and back on March 15th.
- In Sverdlovsk Ivanov was asked to switch the investigation to high secrecy mode, he had never discussed the details with anybody since then.
- Members of the investigation team were checked for radioactivity impact, no results had been shared with them.
As no results had been shared, Ivanov probably decided to obtain a result himself -- ordered radioactivity test for the last 4 bodies. The 5 first had not been available, they had been buried already.
I refer you to the case files and this taken from his letter ; Ivanov letter 1991.
About the radiological examination. You write that it showed nothing. But I checked samples from the area for radiation and they did not show radioactivity, but the internal organs, cavity studies gave a significant background, which indicated a directed radiation targeting. The impression is that "they were wiped with a fairly wide beam" causing the internal bodily injuries. In several places, young fir trees had traces of burns.
This is an extraordinary statement much overlooked. Ivanov is saying that some if not all of the group were subjected to a beam of radiation.
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I have a suspicion that all of Ivanov's letters were written by Kuntsevich.
Why did he write on behalf of Ivanov? Because he was a nobody in this story; the foundation was organized later...
For example, in his letters, Ivanov compares the prosecutor's positions to a position in the navy.
Ivanov was an airborne trooper, but Kuntsevich was a cook in the navy.
It's not surprising, then, that his letters contradict the expert Levashov opinions in the criminal case.
This is an extraordinary statement much overlooked. Ivanov is saying that some if not all of the group were subjected to a beam of radiation.
Extraordinary statement like these should be overlooked.
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So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
Sorry, but both ideas seem to be wrong.
The key point is that they had found something, when they peformed chemical examination of biological fragments of the 5 first hikers' bodies. The samples arrived to the medical lab in Sverdlovsk on March 10th. Obviously, examination had been completed, but we do not have any results in the case files. Since any radioactive material is a chemical element after all, chemical test should detect in a human body presense of such "unusual" elements like uranium, strontium, etc. Obviously, something like that was detected. And starting from here remarkable chain of events has started:
- Ivanov was sent to the DP with advanced radiation detector -- bulky, highly sensitive, usable for all types of radiation.
- On completing the measurements, Ivanov and Kikoin were asked to return to Sverdlovsk asap -- special helicopter flight was organized to the pass and back on March 15th.
- In Sverdlovsk Ivanov was asked to switch the investigation to high secrecy mode, he had never discussed the details with anybody since then.
- Members of the investigation team were checked for radioactivity impact, no results had been shared with them.
As no results had been shared, Ivanov probably decided to obtain a result himself -- ordered radioactivity test for the last 4 bodies. The 5 first had not been available, they had been buried already.
I refer you to the case files and this taken from his letter ; Ivanov letter 1991.
About the radiological examination. You write that it showed nothing. But I checked samples from the area for radiation and they did not show radioactivity, but the internal organs, cavity studies gave a significant background, which indicated a directed radiation targeting. The impression is that "they were wiped with a fairly wide beam" causing the internal bodily injuries. In several places, young fir trees had traces of burns.
This is an extraordinary statement much overlooked. Ivanov is saying that some if not all of the group were subjected to a beam of radiation.
There is no beam of radiation, there is no evidence of traces of burns on any trees.
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I have a suspicion that all of Ivanov's letters were written by Kuntsevich.
Why did he write on behalf of Ivanov? Because he was a nobody in this story; the foundation was organized later...
For example, in his letters, Ivanov compares the prosecutor's positions to a position in the navy.
Ivanov was an airborne trooper, but Kuntsevich was a cook in the navy.
It's not surprising, then, that his letters contradict the expert Levashov opinions in the criminal case.
This is an extraordinary statement much overlooked. Ivanov is saying that some if not all of the group were subjected to a beam of radiation.
Extraordinary statement like these should be overlooked.
Well Ivanov is a person of interest in the Dyatlov Pass investigation. So all his statements have to be considered and not overlooked.
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So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
Sorry, but both ideas seem to be wrong.
The key point is that they had found something, when they peformed chemical examination of biological fragments of the 5 first hikers' bodies. The samples arrived to the medical lab in Sverdlovsk on March 10th. Obviously, examination had been completed, but we do not have any results in the case files. Since any radioactive material is a chemical element after all, chemical test should detect in a human body presense of such "unusual" elements like uranium, strontium, etc. Obviously, something like that was detected. And starting from here remarkable chain of events has started:
- Ivanov was sent to the DP with advanced radiation detector -- bulky, highly sensitive, usable for all types of radiation.
- On completing the measurements, Ivanov and Kikoin were asked to return to Sverdlovsk asap -- special helicopter flight was organized to the pass and back on March 15th.
- In Sverdlovsk Ivanov was asked to switch the investigation to high secrecy mode, he had never discussed the details with anybody since then.
- Members of the investigation team were checked for radioactivity impact, no results had been shared with them.
As no results had been shared, Ivanov probably decided to obtain a result himself -- ordered radioactivity test for the last 4 bodies. The 5 first had not been available, they had been buried already.
I refer you to the case files and this taken from his letter ; Ivanov letter 1991.
About the radiological examination. You write that it showed nothing. But I checked samples from the area for radiation and they did not show radioactivity, but the internal organs, cavity studies gave a significant background, which indicated a directed radiation targeting. The impression is that "they were wiped with a fairly wide beam" causing the internal bodily injuries. In several places, young fir trees had traces of burns.
This is an extraordinary statement much overlooked. Ivanov is saying that some if not all of the group were subjected to a beam of radiation.
There is no beam of radiation, there is no evidence of traces of burns on any trees.
How do you know that there was no beam of radiation ! ? It might as well be included in this case along with all the other things that may or may not be true. Seems like we have a lot of speculation anyway. So lets have a bit more with a potential beam of radiation.
-
So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
Sorry, but both ideas seem to be wrong.
The key point is that they had found something, when they peformed chemical examination of biological fragments of the 5 first hikers' bodies. The samples arrived to the medical lab in Sverdlovsk on March 10th. Obviously, examination had been completed, but we do not have any results in the case files. Since any radioactive material is a chemical element after all, chemical test should detect in a human body presense of such "unusual" elements like uranium, strontium, etc. Obviously, something like that was detected. And starting from here remarkable chain of events has started:
- Ivanov was sent to the DP with advanced radiation detector -- bulky, highly sensitive, usable for all types of radiation.
- On completing the measurements, Ivanov and Kikoin were asked to return to Sverdlovsk asap -- special helicopter flight was organized to the pass and back on March 15th.
- In Sverdlovsk Ivanov was asked to switch the investigation to high secrecy mode, he had never discussed the details with anybody since then.
- Members of the investigation team were checked for radioactivity impact, no results had been shared with them.
As no results had been shared, Ivanov probably decided to obtain a result himself -- ordered radioactivity test for the last 4 bodies. The 5 first had not been available, they had been buried already.
I refer you to the case files and this taken from his letter ; Ivanov letter 1991.
About the radiological examination. You write that it showed nothing. But I checked samples from the area for radiation and they did not show radioactivity, but the internal organs, cavity studies gave a significant background, which indicated a directed radiation targeting. The impression is that "they were wiped with a fairly wide beam" causing the internal bodily injuries. In several places, young fir trees had traces of burns.
This is an extraordinary statement much overlooked. Ivanov is saying that some if not all of the group were subjected to a beam of radiation.
There is no beam of radiation, there is no evidence of traces of burns on any trees.
How do you know that there was no beam of radiation ! ? It might as well be included in this case along with all the other things that may or may not be true. Seems like we have a lot of speculation anyway. So lets have a bit more with a potential beam of radiation.
Please then expand on what would cause a beam of radiation as if the group of hikers were being targeted in 1959 on a random slope in the middle of nowhere ? Where did this so called ray gun or phenomenon come from?
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What would cause a beam of radiation as if the group of hikers were being targeted in 1959 on a random slope in the middle of nowhere ? Where did this so called ray gun or phenomenon come from?
"Beam of radiation" is a wrong guess made by Ivanov. He admitted (as one of the options) that "the balls" could have a crew onboard:
"I can say that only those who were in these balls know more than me about these circumstances. And whether there were "people" there and whether they are always there - no one knows yet."
Since he admits that "the balls" could be piloted, his next assumption is that "the astronauts" could shoot at the hikers from beta guns or something like that. Of course, this is a wrong assumption. "The balls" were not piloted, and nobody shot at the hikers. The right assumption was provided by Levashov on page 377 in the case files: "clothes are contaminated with radioactive dust dropped from the atmosphere, or this garment has been exposed to contamination when working with radioactive substances, or on contact". Two or three hikers approached fallen "fireball" and had contact with it, that contact resulted in beta contamination.
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I do not remember, when the geiger counter was first used and by whom. A (very quick) search didn't give any results. So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
There was no Geiger counter in the Dyatlov Groups Inventory. As I have pointed out before there must have been a reason for a Geiger counter or counters to be used in the search.
You understood me wrong. What I mean is: It is possible for someone to build their own Geiger counter (if they know how to and have access to some gadgets. I know someone, who build one himself.
I didn't suggest, that one of the dyatlovites had one with them, but that someone in the search team might have brought one selfbuilt, because why not? It might have been a chance to test it far out in the wilderness. Let's just say, this happened, that someone tested their counter after shifts and got a higher reading than expected. If it was originating from the bodies or the area the bodies were found of maybe an area the search team visited frequently, they would have reported their findings.
I don't say, it must have happened like this. I only say, it might have been a possibility.
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What would cause a beam of radiation as if the group of hikers were being targeted in 1959 on a random slope in the middle of nowhere ? Where did this so called ray gun or phenomenon come from?
"Beam of radiation" is a wrong guess made by Ivanov. He admitted (as one of the options) that "the balls" could have a crew onboard:
"I can say that only those who were in these balls know more than me about these circumstances. And whether there were "people" there and whether they are always there - no one knows yet."
Since he admits that "the balls" could be piloted, his next assumption is that "the astronauts" could shoot at the hikers from beta guns or something like that. Of course, this is a wrong assumption. "The balls" were not piloted, and nobody shot at the hikers. The right assumption was provided by Levashov on page 377 in the case files: "clothes are contaminated with radioactive dust dropped from the atmosphere, or this garment has been exposed to contamination when working with radioactive substances, or on contact". Two or three hikers approached fallen "fireball" and had contact with it, that contact resulted in beta contamination.
I don't know if this has been investigated, but at the time, radioactive substances were used for glowing watch faces and similar glow in the dark stuff. Also other objects used somewhat radioactive materials. I don't actually know by now (I planed to review the things that were found again, but I just put out the idea here), might there have been something in the things the group brought themselves, like a watch face that was broken and could therefor contaminate the clothes? Maybe a gaslantern of a special build that was used back then? Just an idea, I need to dig deeper upon.
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I don't know if this has been investigated, but at the time, radioactive substances were used for glowing watch faces and similar glow in the dark stuff. Also other objects used somewhat radioactive materials. I don't actually know by now (I planed to review the things that were found again, but I just put out the idea here), might there have been something in the things the group brought themselves, like a watch face that was broken and could therefor contaminate the clothes? Maybe a gaslantern of a special build that was used back then? Just an idea, I need to dig deeper upon.
You are correct Missi, the watches and lantern have been mentioned, I think the conclusion was that they wouldn't contain anywhere near enough radiation to give the readings.
Forum member Ryan wrote a really good account of the pros and cons of the readings. He seemed to have the correct knowledge. Link to his posts, you might have to log on to see them , he only has two pages of comments but they are high quality.
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=445
ive often wondered about northern 2 being the cause of the radiation. That's where they stayed on the first night of the trek, in an old hut . They broke fire wood and all cut themselves on old nails etc so that could be some of the cuts found later. There was apparently hot springs and a lot of mining going on in the past. We can see Yuri yudin with a large core sample that must have been drilled in the past and at some depth . Again I'm not sure if there would be enough contamination from the natural substances in the rocks but the certainly man handled a lot of stuff.
I also remember that small rocks were found in the hikers ruck sacks , pyrite or whatever. Dammed if I can remember where I read this, I think it's the case files somewhere.
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Regarding radiation contamination. Some of the tourists were working with radiation, so perhaps that's why they were trying to find bodies using radiation. Or they were using a different device, like a metal detector, but more sensitive than those used by other searchers.
Their clothing could have been contaminated because the tourists could have walked through the Ural radiation patch created by the Mayak accident and rubbed against a radioactive object. I read the memoirs of a geologist who was searching for radioactive ores in the Urals. He wrote that after the explosion at Mayak, work became more difficult – the device would signal, you'd take a sample, and it would be empty. "Greetings" from Mayak.
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Shamil Sabirov stated at the last conference (February 2, 2026) that the beta radiation level on clothing was up to 60 times higher than that of some natural sources.
He says that the natural background radiation from such a 15 x 15 cm surface is 150 counts, while measured values reached 9,000 counts.
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Thanks, Ziljoe, for pointing me back there. I believe, some of those posts I already read and might have even taken part in the discussions. But I forgot over the years.
As you mention, I also have thought about the places at least some of them went on their journey. You're probably referring to the same excerpt from the group diary as I am:
January 28
We were awaken by the rumbling voices of Yurka Kri (Yuri Krivonischenko) and Sasha Kolevatov (Aleksander Kolevatov). Weather so far is smiling at us. It's only -8°C outside.
After breakfast, some of the guys lead by Yuri Yudin, our well- known geologist, went to look for local minerals. They didn't find anything except pyrite and quartz veins in the rock. Took them long time to wax their skis and adjust the mounting. Yuri Yudin goes back home today. It is a pity, of course, that he leaves us. Especially for me and Zina, but nothing can be done about it.
We know they were looking for pyrite and not further described quartz. Though pyrite seems to sometimes be close to areas with radioactive minerals (only mildly radioactive, though), there seems to be no reports of those close to Northern 2nd. (I took the fast lane and asked perplexity, so take this with a grain of salt.)
The contaminated area (after the accident in Mayak) does not interfere with the route the hikers took.
So aside from contamination brought from Mayak directly, I can only imagine an accident with something like a watch or lantern (as mentioned above, I'll try to read into it) or contamination acquired somewhere on the way. And at least perplexity suggests, that there are no areas with radioactive minerals close by. Though I think I remember Teddy mentioned that there were prospectors in the area looking for exactly those areas, so maybe the information perplexity gave is wrong...
Regarding radiation contamination. Some of the tourists were working with radiation, so perhaps that's why they were trying to find bodies using radiation. Or they were using a different device, like a metal detector, but more sensitive than those used by other searchers.
Their clothing could have been contaminated because the tourists could have walked through the Ural radiation patch created by the Mayak accident and rubbed against a radioactive object. I read the memoirs of a geologist who was searching for radioactive ores in the Urals. He wrote that after the explosion at Mayak, work became more difficult – the device would signal, you'd take a sample, and it would be empty. "Greetings" from Mayak.
I believe there were reports of the searchers using metal detectors, but failing at being successful with them. There're no reports of them using Geiger Counters to locate the bodies, only that they were scanned after being found.
As mentioned above, the East Urals Radioactive Trace doesn't interfere with the route of the hikers, so it's unlikely they touched anything contaminated by the accident in Mayak, other than the one working there... I forgot who was it.
Shamil Sabirov stated at the last conference (February 2, 2026) that the beta radiation level on clothing was up to 60 times higher than that of some natural sources.
He says that the natural background radiation from such a 15 x 15 cm surface is 150 counts, while measured values reached 9,000 counts.
This really is the difficulty: Finding a source of radioactivity they could have had contact with, that was such a high emitter and that emitted mostly beta-radiation. That's why I was going for watches or lanterns, for if some of the material would have rubbed of, that might have been a high amount of radioactivity measured at the exact location... It doesn't feel like the solution, though.
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The radioactive contamination from the Mayak accident isn't a problem. It's like the Chernobyl nuclear power plant explosion. You can walk around the exclusion zone, but if your clothes rub against each other, they might emit radiation. The same thing happened here—they could have rubbed against a patch of radioactive contamination.
Krivonischenko was the worker.
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The topic of radiation from the Kyshtym accident comes up so often that I must add that the Kyshtym trace contains significant radioactive emissions due to cesium,
(3.5% at the time of the accident and about 35% several years later).
During cesium decay, the proportions of gamma and beta radiation are approximately equal (500-600 kiloelectronvolts, a total of 1175).
Gamma radiation manifests itself during further decay.
Since gamma radiation was not detected (and almost none was detected), the radiation source cannot be cesium, and therefore cannot be the radioactive trace of Kyshtym accident .
(https://i.ibb.co/Z1wJn2yM/caesium-137.png) (https://ibb.co/n8V0HPhL)
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The radioactive contamination from the Mayak accident isn't a problem. It's like the Chernobyl nuclear power plant explosion. You can walk around the exclusion zone, but if your clothes rub against each other, they might emit radiation. The same thing happened here—they could have rubbed against a patch of radioactive contamination.
Krivonischenko was the worker.
Those are two different things. You mentioned the East Urals Radioactive Trace. But it is not interfering with the route the hikers took. So it can't be the reason for the radioactive traces measured.
And you mentioned Krovonishenko, who worked at Mayak. I believe I read that they were monitored as to radioactivity leaving the designated areas. Not for the workers safety but for preventing theft. But without having verified that, I can believe that he brought traces of radioactivity with him.
That however would put the question: Why isn't more material contaminated? Or is it only that it was not invested thoroughly?
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Tourists could have picked up radiation on their clothes before their last trip - in previous ones.
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A natural question arises: what was the source of this radiation? It's a big mystery.
It is clear that such a targeted source of radiation cannot be a consequence of the Kyshtym accident, which is a mixture of debris and everything.
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Tourists could have picked up radiation on their clothes before their last trip - in previous ones.
Because they never washed their clothes? Remember what doses where stated to have been measured pre and post washing the material. It's highly unlikely that after washing their clothes regularly like everyone does there would still be that high levels of radiation. I'd go as far as assuming the clothes might have been contaminated in Mayak and then packed. But then still, we were no other clothes in the bag were contaminated?
But all circumstances taken into account, it's rather improbable that the radiation was picked up prior to the trip. At least not long before.
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What would cause a beam of radiation as if the group of hikers were being targeted in 1959 on a random slope in the middle of nowhere ? Where did this so called ray gun or phenomenon come from?
"Beam of radiation" is a wrong guess made by Ivanov. He admitted (as one of the options) that "the balls" could have a crew onboard:
"I can say that only those who were in these balls know more than me about these circumstances. And whether there were "people" there and whether they are always there - no one knows yet."
Since he admits that "the balls" could be piloted, his next assumption is that "the astronauts" could shoot at the hikers from beta guns or something like that. Of course, this is a wrong assumption. "The balls" were not piloted, and nobody shot at the hikers. The right assumption was provided by Levashov on page 377 in the case files: "clothes are contaminated with radioactive dust dropped from the atmosphere, or this garment has been exposed to contamination when working with radioactive substances, or on contact". Two or three hikers approached fallen "fireball" and had contact with it, that contact resulted in beta contamination.
Ok, I'm going to say it as I see it, ivanov is either a complete incompetent idiot or he has been used by the media to sell the dyatlov pass incident.
He wouldn't say ray guns or beans of radiation.
If this is correct,"Levashov on page 377 in the case files: "clothes are contaminated with radioactive dust dropped from the atmosphere, or this garment has been exposed to contamination when working with radioactive substances, or on contact"
Surely the clothes could only have been contaminated pre hike , before the hikers went to the pass ,for example ,northern 2 or work environments , or post discovery of the ravine 4 as in the hospital where the readings were taken. (Perhaps in the body bags for transport, the helicopter or the hospital/ morgue?.
My understanding is if the radiation happened at the 1079 at the location of the pass , the snow layer from the pass to the tent to the cedar would also be contaminated and the radiation particles , locked in that layer?
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Hmmmm.... I've found myself asking new questions and I cannot remember this concept being discussed. The soviet union ( as other countries) were doing nuclear tests. I've read that the fall out gets stuck in the snow layers and then ithe snow thaws and obviously channels to the streams and rivers. Could such fallout over a wide area be the concentration for the readings for the ravine 4 when the thaw occured? I don't know how such particles travel , especially in water , but could it be the water that actually contaminated the ravine 4 clothes?.
Here's a rough AI summary.
Based on historical data and environmental studies, Soviet nuclear activities in the late 1950s—specifically atmospheric tests at Novaya Zemlya and the 1957–1958 Kyshtym disaster—led to significant radioactive material being trapped in snow and ice, which subsequently concentrated in streams and rivers during spring snowmelt.
Key Findings on Radioactive Snow and Water Contamination
Arctic Glacier Contamination: Atmospheric nuclear weapons tests at the Novaya Zemlya site in 1958, among other years, released large amounts of radiation. Studies have confirmed that this radioactivity was deposited on Arctic ice and snow, becoming trapped within glacial layers.
Concentration in Meltwater: As glaciers and snowpack on Novaya Zemlya melt at increased speeds, they release this stored radioactivity. Researchers have found that in some areas, melted glacier water contained radiation levels that significantly exceeded baseline levels, with some areas of the glacier containing double the baseline radiation.
Radioactive Runoff: This phenomenon is part of a larger, ongoing release where "hot particles" and radionuclides (like strontium-90) from the 1950s/60s tests, which were stored in the snow and ice, are currently entering the Arctic Ocean and contaminating local water systems.
The Kyshtym Accident (1957–1958): In addition to weapons tests, a major nuclear waste storage explosion at the Mayak facility (Kyshtym disaster) in late 1957 occurred just before winter. The resulting radioactive plume (containing strontium-90 and cesium-137) settled over thousands of square kilometers in the Urals. The radioactive fallout, which fell during winter, became part of the snow cover, leading to high contamination levels in, rivers and streams (such as the Techa River) during the following spring thaw.
Impact on Human Life: The contamination of these water sources was so severe that it necessitated the evacuation of thousands of people and caused immediate radiation sickness in nearby villages.
Background on 1958 Tests
Operation Hardtack I & II: In 1958, both the U.S. and USSR were conducting intense testing. The Soviet tests at Novaya Zemlya often resulted in significant radioactive fallout, which was monitored by, among others, the Soviet State Meteorological Survey.
Fallout Trajectories: Studies of the 1958 tests showed that significant radioactive fallout traversed to the south as far as the Caspian Sea, while other plumes moved southeast toward the Sea of Okhotsk, leaving traces across large areas of the Soviet Union.
Conclusion
The combination of atmospheric tests at northern latitudes and the 1957 Kyshtym accident resulted in the entrapment of long-lived fission products in the winter snow. The subsequent melting of this snow acted as a conveyor for radionuclides, concentrating them in, rivers and streams and causing severe environmental and health risks throughout the region.
Could this be the basis of the silencing of ivanov and his readings? The USSR was supposed to be in a period of not testing nuclear weapons?
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Hmmmm.... I've found myself asking new questions and I cannot remember this concept being discussed. The soviet union ( as other countries) were doing nuclear tests. I've read that the fall out gets stuck in the snow layers and then ithe snow thaws and obviously channels to the streams and rivers. Could such fallout over a wide area be the concentration for the readings for the ravine 4 when the thaw occured? I don't know how such particles travel , especially in water , but could it be the water that actually contaminated the ravine 4 clothes?.
Contamination due to water in the creek can be ruled out safely.
First, the pattern of contamination does not match water flow direction. The most contaminated piece of clothes (pullover) was on Dubinina, who was the last in the flow. Bodies of Kolevatov, Zolotarev, Thibo protected her against the current. Clothes of those three should have absorbed more radioactive particles, than Dubinina's clothes. However, those two, who were in the middle, absorbed much less than the first and the last in the stream.
Secondly, in Levasov's report on the Sheet 372 there is Table #2, where contamination of different bits of clothes is measured. We can see that item number 1 in the table is not a bit of cloth but rather a soil sample from under (or near) Kolevatov's body. And that soil sample is the only item in the table, which was not contaminated. How could it be that radioactive stream contaminated the hikers, who were there limited time, and did not contaminate soil, which was there all time?
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Surely the clothes could only have been contaminated pre hike , before the hikers went to the pass ,for example ,northern 2 or work environments , or post discovery of the ravine 4 as in the hospital where the readings were taken. (Perhaps in the body bags for transport, the helicopter or the hospital/ morgue?.
I would not be so sure.
If the clothes got contaminated pre hike, than Yury Youdin would have been the first to be tested for contamination. He had been in contact with the rest of the group members during the first days of the hike, and obviously he had good chance to get some amount of radioactive substance on his clothes and skin. But he had been never asked to do the test. Moreover, he had never suspected that radioactivity played any role in that case, until he got access to the case files in 1990s. There are no reports that hikers' relatives and friends in Sverdlovsk were tested either.
For post hike option it's even easier. If radioactive substance was in a helicopter, an airplane, truck, etc in May, than why did Ivanov and Kikoin bring radiation detector to the Pass in March? And if some radioactive stuff was in, say, helicopter, why should Ivanov care about that? If the helicopter's pilots were fine with radioactive cargo, probably level of radioactivity was low and not dangerous. Ivanov had no reason to divert from his investigation and spend time and efforts on the tests that bring no value to his investigation of the case.
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Hmmmm.... I've found myself asking new questions and I cannot remember this concept being discussed. The soviet union ( as other countries) were doing nuclear tests. I've read that the fall out gets stuck in the snow layers and then ithe snow thaws and obviously channels to the streams and rivers. Could such fallout over a wide area be the concentration for the readings for the ravine 4 when the thaw occured? I don't know how such particles travel , especially in water , but could it be the water that actually contaminated the ravine 4 clothes?.
Contamination due to water in the creek can be ruled out safely.
First, the pattern of contamination does not match water flow direction. The most contaminated piece of clothes (pullover) was on Dubinina, who was the last in the flow. Bodies of Kolevatov, Zolotarev, Thibo protected her against the current. Clothes of those three should have absorbed more radioactive particles, than Dubinina's clothes. However, those two, who were in the middle, absorbed much less than the first and the last in the stream.
I was thinking that all the water could potentially be contaminated, who lay where in the water would have little relevance due to all the variables.
If the clothes were contaminated pre incident, then we would expect to see the results that were recorded. If the clothes were contaminated during the incident by rocket,ray gun or whatever, we would still expect the same results?.
If the surrounding area had nuclear fallout from testing in late1958 from the tests , could this not have been trapped in the snow layer on the mountains for the winter of 1958-1959 and then only released in the thaw of a spring dump into the creeks and rivers?.
Yes, the soil example tells us nothing, it doesn't say where it's from or it's volume. One would think they would have requested soil and snow from the area to test . The fact they went to the effort to find a neutral base measurement for the internal organs , I'm surprised they did not do the same for all the clothing.
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Surely the clothes could only have been contaminated pre hike , before the hikers went to the pass ,for example ,northern 2 or work environments , or post discovery of the ravine 4 as in the hospital where the readings were taken. (Perhaps in the body bags for transport, the helicopter or the hospital/ morgue?.
I would not be so sure.
If the clothes got contaminated pre hike, than Yury Youdin would have been the first to be tested for contamination. He had been in contact with the rest of the group members during the first days of the hike, and obviously he had good chance to get some amount of radioactive substance on his clothes and skin. But he had been never asked to do the test. Moreover, he had never suspected that radioactivity played any role in that case, until he got access to the case files in 1990s. There are no reports that hikers' relatives and friends in Sverdlovsk were tested either.
For post hike option it's even easier. If radioactive substance was in a helicopter, an airplane, truck, etc in May, than why did Ivanov and Kikoin bring radiation detector to the Pass in March? And if some radioactive stuff was in, say, helicopter, why should Ivanov care about that? If the helicopter's pilots were fine with radioactive cargo, probably level of radioactivity was low and not dangerous. Ivanov had no reason to divert from his investigation and spend time and efforts on the tests that bring no value to his investigation of the case.
They don't know if they clothes were contaminated pre hike , that's the point. Yuri Yudin could only have been used to see if he had any contamination on clothing pre hike but that wouldn't be conclusive if no readings were found, also it was now May and he had probably washed his clothes several times since January.
When you test for such things you can go through a process of elimination and they did not seem to . The only mention of radioactive readings is that done in May in the lab.
I don't know if Ivanov and Kikoin brought a radiation detector to the Pass in March? I don't think anyone knows this and there's no reported readings in the case files?
I would think any potential post contamination is important to the investigation because it could explain the readings!? . The readings are reported as ;
"The analyzed samples of clothing carry slightly excessive amounts of radioactive substances being the source of Beta-emission."
They say "slightly excessive " but also muse that given the three hour wash that they did in the tests, it suggests that the radiation may have been much higher .
Some of the clothing on the hikers could have been sitting out of the water , it's not a thorough investigation in the slightest when some old piece of canvas used to transport rotting corpses could have been contaminated. I would suspect and it's difficult to tell from the photo's, that some material was used to wrap up the ravine 4 on to the sleds that were used to drag them up to boot rock for loading onto the helicopter. This material could have been lying about anywhere exposed to the elements and used by the military or air force?.
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If the surrounding area had nuclear fallout from testing in late1958 from the tests , could this not have been trapped in the snow layer on the mountains for the winter of 1958-1959 and then only released in the thaw of a spring dump into the creeks and rivers?.
As the author of this thread has explained, when a nuclear device is blasted a cocktail of isotopes is released. Nuclear explosion should produce all kind of emitters - alpha, beta. gamma. I assume that expert Levashov was a real professional, not an amateur. He would have detected alpha and gamma, if they had been present. Also, Ivanov in his article commented that "As a prosecutor who at that time had to deal with some secret defense issues, I rejected the version of the atomic weapon test in this zone." And general observation - Soviets were not nice, but even they would not have gone for nuclear tests in populated area. Yes, the area was low populated, but still Mansi, geologists, prisoners in detention camps had to be considered.
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Ziljoe, I think you might be right about the thawing snow and the fallout. Yet then the fallout must be from winter 58/59. There were no glaciers thawing like today back then. And thus said, in that scenario Mayak is no possible source. It might be, if we're talking other forms of contamination.
The idea of contamination upon transport is also interesting, I think.
I don't remember any mention of Geiger Counters on site. Can someone point me in the right direction?
And general observation - Soviets were not nice, but even they would not have gone for nuclear tests in populated area. Yes, the area was low populated, but still Mansi, geologists, prisoners in detention camps had to be considered.
A few weeks ago, I would have agreed. Since then, I watched documentaries about the contamination of the river Techa and how people fight for their surviving, about the Aral sea and the experiments on the Island of... uhm... forgot the name, sorry. I learned about the island in Siberia, where they wanted to have people build a new gulag and ended up with them killing and eating one another. I learned about a lake that had to be covered by concrete, because it fell dry and was so unbelievable contaminated by radioactivity, that the dust off its ground was poison for everyone near.
The government of the USSR was not nice to people nor to nature. It left immensely contaminated areas. It left ill people that still are not properly cared for. And it didn't care about people being hurt in the wake of progression!
This by the way is why I am strongly opposed to any theory of the government covering up what happened, because in my experience they would only have stated their narrative and anyone who disagreed and stated differently would have found themselves in a gulag shortly after. I believe, I already said that recently...
Anyway, this is no Russia-bashing or USSR-bashing, other governments are not better, there are many proves of that, too.
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Ziljoe, I think you might be right about the thawing snow and the fallout. Yet then the fallout must be from winter 58/59. There were no glaciers thawing like today back then. And thus said, in that scenario Mayak is no possible source. It might be, if we're talking other forms of contamination.
The idea of contamination upon transport is also interesting, I think.
I don't remember any mention of Geiger Counters on site. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks Missi , my thinking is that is that they were not testing anywhere near 1079 , it's just the natural wind in the upper atmosphere carrying the waste. It may have come down over much of the land of the USSR and it's when the snow melts and not glaciers in the north. Just potential fallout as the streams seem to be the collecting points which makes sense. Just a thought.
Background on 1958 Tests
Operation Hardtack I & II: In 1958, both the U.S. and USSR were conducting intense testing. The Soviet tests at Novaya Zemlya often resulted in significant radioactive fallout, which was monitored by, among others, the Soviet State Meteorological Survey.
Fallout Trajectories: Studies of the 1958 tests showed that significant radioactive fallout traversed to the south as far as the Caspian Sea, while other plumes moved southeast toward the Sea of Okhotsk, leaving traces across large areas of the Soviet Union.
We can see there's a piece of canvas or tarp over the ravine when they are removing the ravine 4 so would suspect there was lots of old tarps used in the search. Just a possibility that this or these materials had been passed from pillar to post in use. I would suspect they would have been used in many exposed areas and possibly military resource stock. Only thoughts .
Some one does mention a dosimeter being brought to the pass early in the search but I think it's a post interview and not the case files. It doesn't state for a fact that it was , it was assumed and said to be heard clicking .
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I'd rather say, that the fallout reaching as far as the pass would be much less. But that's just my feeling, based on the fact, that tests as well as kyshtym were not chernobyl, as bad as those were, the fallout was rather restricted, areawise. We'd have to check that out, though.
The tarp thingy is an interesting idea. Gotta look into that.
As for the last part: A dosimeter is not a Geiger Counter. The difference - well, one - is that the dosimeter only shows when a certain amount of radiation was exceeded, whereas the Geiger Counter measures the area and gives distinct measurements. Plus: The dosimeter can't be reset, it measures everything from the beginning of its life until its end.
So firstly, it won't click. Secondly, even if one would show exceeded measurements, we'd still need to verify, it was fresh and didn't measure radiation somewhere else already.
It might be just a lack of knowledge in what things are called, especially if the one stating that exact thing wasn't very knowledgeable according to radioactivity and the like. It might also be someone telling stories without knowing exactly what would be plausible... dunno1
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I'd rather say, that the fallout reaching as far as the pass would be much less. But that's just my feeling, based on the fact, that tests as well as kyshtym were not chernobyl, as bad as those were, the fallout was rather restricted, areawise. We'd have to check that out, though.
The tarp thingy is an interesting idea. Gotta look into that.
As for the last part: A dosimeter is not a Geiger Counter. The difference - well, one - is that the dosimeter only shows when a certain amount of radiation was exceeded, whereas the Geiger Counter measures the area and gives distinct measurements. Plus: The dosimeter can't be reset, it measures everything from the beginning of its life until its end.
So firstly, it won't click. Secondly, even if one would show exceeded measurements, we'd still need to verify, it was fresh and didn't measure radiation somewhere else already.
It might be just a lack of knowledge in what things are called, especially if the one stating that exact thing wasn't very knowledgeable according to radioactivity and the like. It might also be someone telling stories without knowing exactly what would be plausible... dunno1
Agree on everything you you said.
The fallout seems to travel thousands of miles so is a possibility but I don't know about beta etc . Something I'll look into at a later date.
Yes, the dosimeter is a very different thing and concept. I'll find the link as I mentioned this a few months ago and I to asked the forum for the evidence of a Geiger counter at dyatlov pass. I think it's one of these exaggerated stories. If they were willing to print the readings from the ravine 4 clothes , then why not any readings from the pass? ..
As far as I understand it , the reason for the testing of the clothes for radiation is that some third party said ivanovs lawyer said that Ivanov saw the clothes glowing in a room.
That's the reason given and it's post incident by many years by a third party ?. As far as I understand , radiative material doesn't just glow ? It's a modern joke through cartoons and such.
There was some guy ( German I think) that invented or found a way to test for blood on victims with certain chemicals ( I've posted this before but have forgotten the details) . I think it needs a UV light and the old blood stains glow . I was thinking this might be what was seen and ivanov may have misunderstood.
The problem with the whole case is that that every media outlet has had quoted anyone that has forwarded with any fantasy and printed it without proof.?. We then all think because it's from a news paper that someone did the research but as we know , newspapers are only interested in selling newspapers, ( or digital content with adverts)
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Well, I know for sure, that radiation can cause glowing, as for example the blueish glow in water. But that's a whole different thing. I'm pretty sure radiation does not glow in the dark. At least not visible enough for human eyes to clearly see.
The idea of UV activated glowing blood stains is a good idea, though. The chemical substance is called luminol (at least in German). It was first used in Germany in the 1930s. It seems to not be completely sure from when on it was used in the USSR, but post war USSR probably used it. (Summery of perplexity, not otherwise verified)
I really like that trail of thinking...
And you're definitely right with the influence of papers and the like. That whole story is one single clusterfuck (as my husband would call it). There are no investigative photos (mostly photos of the search team, not of the officials), there are things that were left out of the initial files and added later, there are contradicting statements from the actual time and several people and there are statements when people contradict their own statements later in life after having things forgotten, reimagined or maybe were ordered to correct themselves or decided the time was right to right what they wrongly stated at the time after being ordered to. And one does not know, what to believe and what not.
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So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
Sorry, but both ideas seem to be wrong.
The key point is that they had found something, when they peformed chemical examination of biological fragments of the 5 first hikers' bodies. The samples arrived to the medical lab in Sverdlovsk on March 10th. Obviously, examination had been completed, but we do not have any results in the case files. Since any radioactive material is a chemical element after all, chemical test should detect in a human body presense of such "unusual" elements like uranium, strontium, etc. Obviously, something like that was detected. And starting from here remarkable chain of events has started:
- Ivanov was sent to the DP with advanced radiation detector -- bulky, highly sensitive, usable for all types of radiation.
- On completing the measurements, Ivanov and Kikoin were asked to return to Sverdlovsk asap -- special helicopter flight was organized to the pass and back on March 15th.
- In Sverdlovsk Ivanov was asked to switch the investigation to high secrecy mode, he had never discussed the details with anybody since then.
- Members of the investigation team were checked for radioactivity impact, no results had been shared with them.
As no results had been shared, Ivanov probably decided to obtain a result himself -- ordered radioactivity test for the last 4 bodies. The 5 first had not been available, they had been buried already.
I refer you to the case files and this taken from his letter ; Ivanov letter 1991.
About the radiological examination. You write that it showed nothing. But I checked samples from the area for radiation and they did not show radioactivity, but the internal organs, cavity studies gave a significant background, which indicated a directed radiation targeting. The impression is that "they were wiped with a fairly wide beam" causing the internal bodily injuries. In several places, young fir trees had traces of burns.
This is an extraordinary statement much overlooked. Ivanov is saying that some if not all of the group were subjected to a beam of radiation.
There is no beam of radiation, there is no evidence of traces of burns on any trees.
How do you know that there was no beam of radiation ! ? It might as well be included in this case along with all the other things that may or may not be true. Seems like we have a lot of speculation anyway. So lets have a bit more with a potential beam of radiation.
Please then expand on what would cause a beam of radiation as if the group of hikers were being targeted in 1959 on a random slope in the middle of nowhere ? Where did this so called ray gun or phenomenon come from?
That's a good response. Obviously I could speculate. I would prefer not to. May be some unknown force that emitted radiation and may not have been what you call a ray gun. Lots of strange unexplained things happen even in this modern age. Cattle or animal mutilations are one such thing.
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What would cause a beam of radiation as if the group of hikers were being targeted in 1959 on a random slope in the middle of nowhere ? Where did this so called ray gun or phenomenon come from?
"Beam of radiation" is a wrong guess made by Ivanov. He admitted (as one of the options) that "the balls" could have a crew onboard:
"I can say that only those who were in these balls know more than me about these circumstances. And whether there were "people" there and whether they are always there - no one knows yet."
Since he admits that "the balls" could be piloted, his next assumption is that "the astronauts" could shoot at the hikers from beta guns or something like that. Of course, this is a wrong assumption. "The balls" were not piloted, and nobody shot at the hikers. The right assumption was provided by Levashov on page 377 in the case files: "clothes are contaminated with radioactive dust dropped from the atmosphere, or this garment has been exposed to contamination when working with radioactive substances, or on contact". Two or three hikers approached fallen "fireball" and had contact with it, that contact resulted in beta contamination.
Not sure what you are trying to say here. I'm going by what records we have of what people have stated. Ivanov said many things and they are recorded. We try to piece it all together and make sense of it all. Not easy is it.
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I do not remember, when the geiger counter was first used and by whom. A (very quick) search didn't give any results. So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
There was no Geiger counter in the Dyatlov Groups Inventory. As I have pointed out before there must have been a reason for a Geiger counter or counters to be used in the search.
You understood me wrong. What I mean is: It is possible for someone to build their own Geiger counter (if they know how to and have access to some gadgets. I know someone, who build one himself.
I didn't suggest, that one of the dyatlovites had one with them, but that someone in the search team might have brought one selfbuilt, because why not? It might have been a chance to test it far out in the wilderness. Let's just say, this happened, that someone tested their counter after shifts and got a higher reading than expected. If it was originating from the bodies or the area the bodies were found of maybe an area the search team visited frequently, they would have reported their findings.
I don't say, it must have happened like this. I only say, it might have been a possibility.
I did say that no Geiger counter in the Dyatlov inventory. But one or more was used by the search team and the Geiger counter or counters would be of the military type No mention of home made Geiger counter or counters.
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What would cause a beam of radiation as if the group of hikers were being targeted in 1959 on a random slope in the middle of nowhere ? Where did this so called ray gun or phenomenon come from?
"Beam of radiation" is a wrong guess made by Ivanov. He admitted (as one of the options) that "the balls" could have a crew onboard:
"I can say that only those who were in these balls know more than me about these circumstances. And whether there were "people" there and whether they are always there - no one knows yet."
Since he admits that "the balls" could be piloted, his next assumption is that "the astronauts" could shoot at the hikers from beta guns or something like that. Of course, this is a wrong assumption. "The balls" were not piloted, and nobody shot at the hikers. The right assumption was provided by Levashov on page 377 in the case files: "clothes are contaminated with radioactive dust dropped from the atmosphere, or this garment has been exposed to contamination when working with radioactive substances, or on contact". Two or three hikers approached fallen "fireball" and had contact with it, that contact resulted in beta contamination.
I don't know if this has been investigated, but at the time, radioactive substances were used for glowing watch faces and similar glow in the dark stuff. Also other objects used somewhat radioactive materials. I don't actually know by now (I planed to review the things that were found again, but I just put out the idea here), might there have been something in the things the group brought themselves, like a watch face that was broken and could therefor contaminate the clothes? Maybe a gaslantern of a special build that was used back then? Just an idea, I need to dig deeper upon.
Well you raise some good points. It looks like we all have to agree that there was radiation of some kind. Whether it played a part in the demise of the group is another matter. Problem is that certain types of radiation don't last long for the purposes of us gathering evidence. As any one taken soil samples these days and tested for radiation at the site ?
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Regarding radiation contamination. Some of the tourists were working with radiation, so perhaps that's why they were trying to find bodies using radiation. Or they were using a different device, like a metal detector, but more sensitive than those used by other searchers.
Their clothing could have been contaminated because the tourists could have walked through the Ural radiation patch created by the Mayak accident and rubbed against a radioactive object. I read the memoirs of a geologist who was searching for radioactive ores in the Urals. He wrote that after the explosion at Mayak, work became more difficult – the device would signal, you'd take a sample, and it would be empty. "Greetings" from Mayak.
Yes this as been touched upon a few times re the clothing of some of the group may have had radioactive traces on them. But it seems unlikely that when the search for the missing hikers started they would have been thinking of searching for bodies. They were expecting to find them alive, presumably. The Geiger counter was used early in the search apparently. And would the searchers have been aware that some of the group may have had contaminated clothing.
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Shamil Sabirov stated at the last conference (February 2, 2026) that the beta radiation level on clothing was up to 60 times higher than that of some natural sources.
He says that the natural background radiation from such a 15 x 15 cm surface is 150 counts, while measured values reached 9,000 counts.
We would also need to know what type of Beta radiation. Some radiation only last a few second's others centuries.
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Thanks, Ziljoe, for pointing me back there. I believe, some of those posts I already read and might have even taken part in the discussions. But I forgot over the years.
As you mention, I also have thought about the places at least some of them went on their journey. You're probably referring to the same excerpt from the group diary as I am:
January 28
We were awaken by the rumbling voices of Yurka Kri (Yuri Krivonischenko) and Sasha Kolevatov (Aleksander Kolevatov). Weather so far is smiling at us. It's only -8°C outside.
After breakfast, some of the guys lead by Yuri Yudin, our well- known geologist, went to look for local minerals. They didn't find anything except pyrite and quartz veins in the rock. Took them long time to wax their skis and adjust the mounting. Yuri Yudin goes back home today. It is a pity, of course, that he leaves us. Especially for me and Zina, but nothing can be done about it.
We know they were looking for pyrite and not further described quartz. Though pyrite seems to sometimes be close to areas with radioactive minerals (only mildly radioactive, though), there seems to be no reports of those close to Northern 2nd. (I took the fast lane and asked perplexity, so take this with a grain of salt.)
The contaminated area (after the accident in Mayak) does not interfere with the route the hikers took.
So aside from contamination brought from Mayak directly, I can only imagine an accident with something like a watch or lantern (as mentioned above, I'll try to read into it) or contamination acquired somewhere on the way. And at least perplexity suggests, that there are no areas with radioactive minerals close by. Though I think I remember Teddy mentioned that there were prospectors in the area looking for exactly those areas, so maybe the information perplexity gave is wrong...
Regarding radiation contamination. Some of the tourists were working with radiation, so perhaps that's why they were trying to find bodies using radiation. Or they were using a different device, like a metal detector, but more sensitive than those used by other searchers.
Their clothing could have been contaminated because the tourists could have walked through the Ural radiation patch created by the Mayak accident and rubbed against a radioactive object. I read the memoirs of a geologist who was searching for radioactive ores in the Urals. He wrote that after the explosion at Mayak, work became more difficult – the device would signal, you'd take a sample, and it would be empty. "Greetings" from Mayak.
I believe there were reports of the searchers using metal detectors, but failing at being successful with them. There're no reports of them using Geiger Counters to locate the bodies, only that they were scanned after being found.
As mentioned above, the East Urals Radioactive Trace doesn't interfere with the route of the hikers, so it's unlikely they touched anything contaminated by the accident in Mayak, other than the one working there... I forgot who was it.
Shamil Sabirov stated at the last conference (February 2, 2026) that the beta radiation level on clothing was up to 60 times higher than that of some natural sources.
He says that the natural background radiation from such a 15 x 15 cm surface is 150 counts, while measured values reached 9,000 counts.
This really is the difficulty: Finding a source of radioactivity they could have had contact with, that was such a high emitter and that emitted mostly beta-radiation. That's why I was going for watches or lanterns, for if some of the material would have rubbed of, that might have been a high amount of radioactivity measured at the exact location... It doesn't feel like the solution, though.
I just want to add that a Geiger counter was definitely used but what was it used for. I dont recall any specific target it was meant to locate.
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I just want to add that a Geiger counter was definitely used but what was it used for. I dont recall any specific target it was meant to locate.
Please cite your evidence and context.
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Regarding radiation contamination. Some of the tourists were working with radiation, so perhaps that's why they were trying to find bodies using radiation. Or they were using a different device, like a metal detector, but more sensitive than those used by other searchers.
Their clothing could have been contaminated because the tourists could have walked through the Ural radiation patch created by the Mayak accident and rubbed against a radioactive object. I read the memoirs of a geologist who was searching for radioactive ores in the Urals. He wrote that after the explosion at Mayak, work became more difficult – the device would signal, you'd take a sample, and it would be empty. "Greetings" from Mayak.
Yes this as been touched upon a few times re the clothing of some of the group may have had radioactive traces on them. But it seems unlikely that when the search for the missing hikers started they would have been thinking of searching for bodies. They were expecting to find them alive, presumably. The Geiger counter was used early in the search apparently. And would the searchers have been aware that some of the group may have had contaminated clothing.
Absolutely, so what do you mean. When was the Geiger counter used early in the search . Please cite your statement.
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Well you raise some good points. It looks like we all have to agree that there was radiation of some kind. Whether it played a part in the demise of the group is another matter. Problem is that certain types of radiation don't last long for the purposes of us gathering evidence. As any one taken soil samples these days and tested for radiation at the site ?
All we can agree on is that post discovery of the ravine 4 , that readings were taken from their clothes. There bodies and clothes had traveled from the ravine , put in bags, put in a helicopter , been undressed, then readings were taken. No readings are recorded as been taken from the ravine , 1079 , the water or the localised soil.
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Not sure what you are trying to say here. I'm going by what records we have of what people have stated. Ivanov said many things and they are recorded. We try to piece it all together and make sense of it all. Not easy is it.
I try to say two simple things:
1) The hikers' clothes were contaminated on contact with a radioactive source, which was inside a "fireball". Leakage of radioactive substance was minimal and affected only limited area around the "fireball". It did not spread on the whole terrain.
2) The contact took place at DP on Feb 1st in the evening. It was not in Sverdlovsk, Severny-2, helicopter or wherever else. It was near the last tent's placement.
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I do not remember, when the geiger counter was first used and by whom. A (very quick) search didn't give any results. So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
There was no Geiger counter in the Dyatlov Groups Inventory. As I have pointed out before there must have been a reason for a Geiger counter or counters to be used in the search.
You understood me wrong. What I mean is: It is possible for someone to build their own Geiger counter (if they know how to and have access to some gadgets. I know someone, who build one himself.
I didn't suggest, that one of the dyatlovites had one with them, but that someone in the search team might have brought one selfbuilt, because why not? It might have been a chance to test it far out in the wilderness. Let's just say, this happened, that someone tested their counter after shifts and got a higher reading than expected. If it was originating from the bodies or the area the bodies were found of maybe an area the search team visited frequently, they would have reported their findings.
I don't say, it must have happened like this. I only say, it might have been a possibility.
I did say that no Geiger counter in the Dyatlov inventory. But one or more was used by the search team and the Geiger counter or counters would be of the military type No mention of home made Geiger counter or counters.
The initial question was, why someone official brought Geiger Counters to the site. I was trying to give a reason as to why radiation could have been detected and how that lead to official measurements, that's all.
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Not sure what you are trying to say here. I'm going by what records we have of what people have stated. Ivanov said many things and they are recorded. We try to piece it all together and make sense of it all. Not easy is it.
I try to say two simple things:
1) The hikers' clothes were contaminated on contact with a radioactive source, which was inside a "fireball". Leakage of radioactive substance was minimal and affected only limited area around the "fireball". It did not spread on the whole terrain.
2) The contact took place at DP on Feb 1st in the evening. It was not in Sverdlovsk, Severny-2, helicopter or wherever else. It was near the last tent's placement.
You can say that as firmly as you want to, but that doesn't make it real. Proof does. So can you prove your statements?
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You can say that as firmly as you want to, but that doesn't make it real. Proof does. So can you prove your statements?
Great move! You are 10,000-s person, who tells me that I MUST prove certain event in the Dyatlov case. grin1
Do you truly believe that I am on the same level with Ivanov, Tempalov, Korotaev to prove anything in this criminal case? Especially when 67 years have passed?
USSR's authorities did their best in 1959 to conceal the real cause of the incident. Do you still expect they left you hooks to continue investigation and find proofs?
What I say is MY OPINION, and I hope on this forum it is allowed to share opinions, not only provide proofs.
If you think that anybody has proved anything in this case, please point me to that brilliant work so that I get an outstanding example how proofs can be obtained.
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You can say that as firmly as you want to, but that doesn't make it real. Proof does. So can you prove your statements?
Great move! You are 10,000-s person, who tells me that I MUST prove certain event in the Dyatlov case. grin1
Do you truly believe that I am on the same level with Ivanov, Tempalov, Korotaev to prove anything in this criminal case? Especially when 67 years have passed?
USSR's authorities did their best in 1959 to conceal the real cause of the incident. Do you still expect they left you hooks to continue investigation and find proofs?
What I say is MY OPINION, and I hope on this forum it is allowed to share opinions, not only provide proofs.
If you think that anybody has proved anything in this case, please point me to that brilliant work so that I get an outstanding example how proofs can be obtained.
There are two different layers of this argumentation.
First is opinions and belief. You can have whatever opinion you would like to have. You can talk about it. But if you put it like a fact, you have to let yourself be asked for proof.
Yet I do have to concede to the fact, that I missed the "try" in your statement and probably read it as more of a "that is what happened" statement as you intended to.
But in the end it is, as I said: If you want your opinion to hold and be more than belief, you MUST prove it. That is you or me or whoever thinks their theory is the one that's right.
The second is about proof. Yes, there are proofs. Teddy did prove that the tree, she thinks was responsible, fell at a time that might fit into the story. It's not a proof that it did happen like that. But it's definite proof that it is not impossible. There has been proof that other than thought for a long time, the area does have snow slaps. Those are no proofs as in "this is what happened", usually. They are proofs that something is possible or that something definitely is not possible. It's small steps, but they reduce the area in which we are thinking.
And last, there's my opinion: The USSR's authorities did not conceal anything. They would have made a statement as to which is the narrative and buried the victims. And everyone who'd have spoken against the official story would have won a one way ticket to Siberia or elsewhere pleasant.
It is an opinion, so no proof here. But a plausibility, because we see similar stories of "that's the narrative" and deported people all over the years the USSR existed, that we do learn about as years go by.
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If you want your opinion to hold and be more than belief, you MUST prove it. That is you or me or whoever thinks their theory is the one that's right.
No I don't. I am fully OK that other people think differently. The less people understand what happened in 1959, the better to watch their efforts to solve the puzzle. kewl1
Teddy did prove that the tree, she thinks was responsible, fell at a time that might fit into the story. It's not a proof that it did happen like that. But it's definite proof that it is not impossible.
I'll say you more - everything is possible. For example, a hurricane is possible. All top leaders of Communist party of the USSR signed a document on April 10th 1959 that they had been informed that the hikers died because of a hurricane. However much later, just a few years ago, representative of the russian Prosecutors office Mr.Kuryakov informed the society that the hikers died due to two conseсutive avalanches - one on the slope, another in the ravine. As for the fallen tree, I know that every forest have trees that fell in 1959. So what?
And last, there's my opinion: The USSR's authorities did not conceal anything.
My opinion is that your opinion regarding that is totaly wrong. )
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If you want your opinion to hold and be more than belief, you MUST prove it. That is you or me or whoever thinks their theory is the one that's right.
No I don't. I am fully OK that other people think differently. The less people understand what happened in 1959, the better to watch their efforts to solve the puzzle. kewl1
Teddy did prove that the tree, she thinks was responsible, fell at a time that might fit into the story. It's not a proof that it did happen like that. But it's definite proof that it is not impossible.
I'll say you more - everything is possible. For example, a hurricane is possible. All top leaders of Communist party of the USSR signed a document on April 10th 1959 that they had been informed that the hikers died because of a hurricane. However much later, just a few years ago, representative of the russian Prosecutors office Mr.Kuryakov informed the society that the hikers died due to two conseсutive avalanches - one on the slope, another in the ravine. As for the fallen tree, I know that every forest have trees that fell in 1959. So what?
And last, there's my opinion: The USSR's authorities did not conceal anything.
My opinion is that your opinion regarding that is totaly wrong. )
Well, then, good to know.
So, about that Geiger Counter. I somehow remembered to have read as well, someone mentioned that during the search someone had one there. I couldn't find that testimony by reading through this site, it was not referenced at the spots I looked (which does not mean, there is none, just that if there is, it's nowhere I expected it to logically be stored). So I asked perplexity (which again is no prove, so if someone actually find's the testimony, I'd love to get the link, thanks. :) ) and it said, that fact is no fact, but rather someone mentioned years later, that someone - unspecified person - had a Geiger Counter there. So I guess, it's probably a case of hearsay and fading memories. At the moment I don't find the energy and concentration to read all of the case files (again)...
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It's an absolute pain to find. It's in this post incident interview.
"This is the opinion of the participant in the searches of Dyatlov group Vladimir Askinadzi, who shared his memoirs with journalists Nikolay Varsegov and Natalya Varsegova."
https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=244.0
Were you tested for radiation?
– No. I learned about radiation only when the case was declassified. True, there was a Moscow radiologist with a dosimeter there on the pass. He took measurements, but we were not informed about the results.
I'm sure someone else states he heard the clicking and I think that's it. Then there is the much later statement by some guy that says Ivanov requested that a Geiger counter was used as the clothes were glowing , in wherever they were being stored.
My memory also brings up something about a big box at the start of the search with or when the sappers arrive. I'm think something is suggested regarding this arrival but again it's post incident.
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He didn't even give an official statement for the case files. shock1
And there's the thing with the dosimeter again. Those don't click. And they don't measure in the actual sense of the word.
We already did talk about the glowing probably being a misinterpretation of the use of luminol, because radioactivity does not glow in that sense.
I can imagine, that he didn't know the difference between dosimeter and Geiger Counter. But if he didn't know that, how could he be so sure, the guy was a radiologist and actually did, what he says he did?
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I really should take notes as I read. As Glennm says , it is like the telephone game but I know it as "Chinese whispers".
It would seem that all those involved in the search didn't think too much about the incident other than it being a tragic loss. They, the searchers and the students obviously speculated about the reason to leave the tent but the vast majority did not know all the details of the case files until much later in life.
It seems that those involved , when receiving the case files and photos later in life only learned about some of the details of the case.
For example, Yuri yudin didn't seem to know what belonged to the hikers when asked to identify the belongings, he had a guess at best.
If all these search students only heard about the radiation( and other sensations )many years after the event , then guesses of Geiger counters at the pass by men in long coats could be a suspicion of what they thought they saw. It is also true that these students were all on different shifts , not shifts during the day hours but shifts as in searching for a few weeks then leaving the pass and being replaced by other searchers . They all saw different things at different times with different amounts of information and quite possibly never communicated much with each other about the incident as they moved on with their own lives.
The radiation is confusing as the readings taken before and after the washing for 3 hours in the lab, suggests that if the searchers found the ravine 4 one day later , there would be no readings of radiation as there would have been in the water another 24 hours . This would have washed the clothes more ? A fluke?.
It was argued that the samples taken from the clothing were maybe not submerged when in the ravine and not getting washed so this is why the readings were higher . But , if this is the case , then the readings are not particularly high as they weren't getting washed in the stream at all?.
I'm not explaining myself well at all but the readings don't seem exceptionally high if this is the case.
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To summarize what we know about radiation regarding DPI
From the Case Files
Vol.1, 370-377: Ivanov ordered to perform radiation testing of clothing and parts of bodies of 4 dead hikers. The testing was performed by expert Levashov. Contamination of the clothing by some radioactive material (beta emitter) was detected.
Vol.2, 21: Ivanov inserted results of Levashov’s radiation testing in the first version of the Case Resolution statement. Prosecutor Klinov stroke it out and did not put his signature on the sheet 18.
Vol.1, 369: Ivanov removed results of Levashov’s radiation testing from the case files (sheets 370-377) and put them into separate package.
Vol.1, Receipt: Ivanov transferred directions from his boss Klinov to the Prosecutor’s office archive worker to keep the package in top secret proceedings section in a secret archive.
Beyond the Case Files
Ivanov’s interview to Bogomolov:
“- I only managed to conduct a radiation examination. Even had to carry on location a device in a large wooden box.
- Geiger counter?
- Yes, it looks like it. It was clicking a lot... I am sure there was radiation. But nobody told me how much, and I didn't find out.”
Mr.Kikoin’s son recollections:
“As far as I can remember, my father took some equipment with him, especially since radiation physics was one of his specialties. Unfortunately, I don't have any detailed information about what kind of device it was. I was 14 years old at the time, so my education wouldn't have been sufficient to ask my father the right question. Additionally, he was bound by a non-disclosure agreement and didn't share any information with his family.”
P.Bartolomey’s investigation (Bartolomey was in Kikoin’s group at the Pass):
“The famous physicist Abram Konstantinovich Kikoin investigated radiation level at the place of death of the hikers. He was also a head of the mountaineering section at UPI, a physics teacher, PhD. Kikoin flew there with the most advanced radiometer of that time, developed by Yuri Stein, also a graduate of UPI. Although that radiometer was quite bulky, it was considered to be very efficient. It was used in 1957 to measure radiation at the site of the famous accident at the Chelyabinsk Mayak.”
E.Okishev’s interview:
“There was one event that put us on alert. When the last bodies were found in May, an order came to collect all items found at the pass and send them for radiological examination. Also, all people who had been in contact with the things found in the tent and nearby were ordered to undergo test for radiation of their bodies. So it was done, but neither a reassuring, nor any other results were made known to us.”
...
“We sent a letter signed by prosecutor Klinov to either Prosecutor General of the USSR or Prosecutor General of Russian Federal republic – I don’t remember exactly now – asking to explain what really we were investigating into? And how it was related to radiation? ”
V.Korotaev’s interview:
“Well, what else alarmed me: when autopsies of the Ravine 4 were performed, there were two vats of ethanol, and we had to submerge into the ethanol on completing each step. Then, after the case was closed, prosecutor Tempalov was given a free coupon to the medical recreation center at the South. He advised me to undergo medical examination too. He hinted that I might become an impotent.”
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I just want to add that a Geiger counter was definitely used but what was it used for. I dont recall any specific target it was meant to locate.
Please cite your evidence and context.
If I have to keep digging up previous stuff it takes time and it means the same things get posted again. All anyone has to do is check it out on The Dyatlov Pass site, aka, dyatlovpass.com
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Well you raise some good points. It looks like we all have to agree that there was radiation of some kind. Whether it played a part in the demise of the group is another matter. Problem is that certain types of radiation don't last long for the purposes of us gathering evidence. As any one taken soil samples these days and tested for radiation at the site ?
All we can agree on is that post discovery of the ravine 4 , that readings were taken from their clothes. There bodies and clothes had traveled from the ravine , put in bags, put in a helicopter , been undressed, then readings were taken. No readings are recorded as been taken from the ravine , 1079 , the water or the localised soil.
Yes as far as we know no records of any sampling at the area where the incident took place. Non at the time and as far as we know non since unless anyone knows otherwise.
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Not sure what you are trying to say here. I'm going by what records we have of what people have stated. Ivanov said many things and they are recorded. We try to piece it all together and make sense of it all. Not easy is it.
I try to say two simple things:
1) The hikers' clothes were contaminated on contact with a radioactive source, which was inside a "fireball". Leakage of radioactive substance was minimal and affected only limited area around the "fireball". It did not spread on the whole terrain.
2) The contact took place at DP on Feb 1st in the evening. It was not in Sverdlovsk, Severny-2, helicopter or wherever else. It was near the last tent's placement.
Fireball ! ? That's the description people often use to describe something that is circular and glowing. Can also be referred to as a UFO.
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I do not remember, when the geiger counter was first used and by whom. A (very quick) search didn't give any results. So without any confirmation two vague ideas why here could have been measurements:
The students involved in the search were physics and radiology students among others. Maybe one of them build a very simple geiger counter himself, brought it, because why not, and discovered spikes he them told the leaders about, leading to more and more scientific relevant measurements?
One of the hikers (I don't remember who) worked at... I believe it was called Chelyabinsk at the time. The secret town that's known as Mayak also, that people know for the Kyshtym disaster, which happened a few years earlier. Another worked at another PO, where, if I remember correctly, nuclear materials were also handled.
Maybe that could have been the reason, why there were measurements.
There was no Geiger counter in the Dyatlov Groups Inventory. As I have pointed out before there must have been a reason for a Geiger counter or counters to be used in the search.
You understood me wrong. What I mean is: It is possible for someone to build their own Geiger counter (if they know how to and have access to some gadgets. I know someone, who build one himself.
I didn't suggest, that one of the dyatlovites had one with them, but that someone in the search team might have brought one selfbuilt, because why not? It might have been a chance to test it far out in the wilderness. Let's just say, this happened, that someone tested their counter after shifts and got a higher reading than expected. If it was originating from the bodies or the area the bodies were found of maybe an area the search team visited frequently, they would have reported their findings.
I don't say, it must have happened like this. I only say, it might have been a possibility.
I did say that no Geiger counter in the Dyatlov inventory. But one or more was used by the search team and the Geiger counter or counters would be of the military type No mention of home made Geiger counter or counters.
The initial question was, why someone official brought Geiger Counters to the site. I was trying to give a reason as to why radiation could have been detected and how that lead to official measurements, that's all.
That's fair enough. We don't have enough information in the available records to answer that question so we have to make assumptions. For instance the assumption that a Geiger counter was used because someone believed that there may be radioactive element's in the area.
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You can say that as firmly as you want to, but that doesn't make it real. Proof does. So can you prove your statements?
Great move! You are 10,000-s person, who tells me that I MUST prove certain event in the Dyatlov case. grin1
Do you truly believe that I am on the same level with Ivanov, Tempalov, Korotaev to prove anything in this criminal case? Especially when 67 years have passed?
USSR's authorities did their best in 1959 to conceal the real cause of the incident. Do you still expect they left you hooks to continue investigation and find proofs?
What I say is MY OPINION, and I hope on this forum it is allowed to share opinions, not only provide proofs.
If you think that anybody has proved anything in this case, please point me to that brilliant work so that I get an outstanding example how proofs can be obtained.
Well it has to be said that you have knocked a nail on the head here. I am sure most of us are trying our best to make sense of this great mystery. This Forum is probably the best in the World. And by different people coming at it from different angles it might throw up something new to consider.
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If you want your opinion to hold and be more than belief, you MUST prove it. That is you or me or whoever thinks their theory is the one that's right.
No I don't. I am fully OK that other people think differently. The less people understand what happened in 1959, the better to watch their efforts to solve the puzzle. kewl1
Teddy did prove that the tree, she thinks was responsible, fell at a time that might fit into the story. It's not a proof that it did happen like that. But it's definite proof that it is not impossible.
I'll say you more - everything is possible. For example, a hurricane is possible. All top leaders of Communist party of the USSR signed a document on April 10th 1959 that they had been informed that the hikers died because of a hurricane. However much later, just a few years ago, representative of the russian Prosecutors office Mr.Kuryakov informed the society that the hikers died due to two conseсutive avalanches - one on the slope, another in the ravine. As for the fallen tree, I know that every forest have trees that fell in 1959. So what?
And last, there's my opinion: The USSR's authorities did not conceal anything.
My opinion is that your opinion regarding that is totaly wrong. )
Well, then, good to know.
So, about that Geiger Counter. I somehow remembered to have read as well, someone mentioned that during the search someone had one there. I couldn't find that testimony by reading through this site, it was not referenced at the spots I looked (which does not mean, there is none, just that if there is, it's nowhere I expected it to logically be stored). So I asked perplexity (which again is no prove, so if someone actually find's the testimony, I'd love to get the link, thanks. :) ) and it said, that fact is no fact, but rather someone mentioned years later, that someone - unspecified person - had a Geiger Counter there. So I guess, it's probably a case of hearsay and fading memories. At the moment I don't find the energy and concentration to read all of the case files (again)...
It can be tedious having to go back and dig up old stuff. I've been on this Forum for years now. So much information has cropped up in that time. But a lot of useful stuff is not in the Case Files per se. Check out other articles in dyatlovpass.com site. I've seen reference to a Geiger counter being brought in to the area and used.
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He didn't even give an official statement for the case files. shock1
And there's the thing with the dosimeter again. Those don't click. And they don't measure in the actual sense of the word.
We already did talk about the glowing probably being a misinterpretation of the use of luminol, because radioactivity does not glow in that sense.
I can imagine, that he didn't know the difference between dosimeter and Geiger Counter. But if he didn't know that, how could he be so sure, the guy was a radiologist and actually did, what he says he did?
As far as I know there is no official statement regarding the use of and findings of a Geiger Counter. At least one was used but no records of what it registered.