Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Loose}{Cannon on January 16, 2023, 08:31:22 PM
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Point of view of an American. whacky1
Im sure you have all heard the tales and theories of the DP incident somehow entangled with cold war spies, espionage and perhaps it even being used as a propaganda tool, I know I have. I am former military and have an extensive military family background. I also have a keen interest in history, wars, weaponry and the like. You may not know this, but I own and operate a rather large and popular firearms forum and own in excess of 60 (mostly historical) firearms from all over the world.
That being said, when I first started to dabble in the DPI incident it was out of basic curiosity of the unknown. Having a mother in-law that is Russian, I asked her opinion on what she thinks happened to the DP group. Her response was interesting in that apparently she had grown up somewhere not far from where it happened (don’t ask me where because I don’t remember). She then continued to explain how there was no doubt in her mind that it was the fault of US spies that killed them after not handing over some state secret. She went on to explain how the US spies were trained to crush chest cavities bla bla bork bork. My first reaction was to chuckle, but as it dawned on me that she wasn’t joking, my laughter turned to sympathy. Let me explain… I had realized that cold war propaganda was a real thing and its effect was standing right in front of me. Hey, I get it.. both sides of the cold war liked to play their adversary as the boogie man to their advantage and still do to this day, however, this was a bit out there. I mean, we have people go missing all the time in the US and even die in the wilderness, but nobody not even the government ever uses it as a propaganda tool to stow fear in Americans about their adversaries. No, this is evidence of a whole different level of conditioning or perhaps grooming of a populous to be so fearful.
What reason on earth would the US have to kill a couple of students and recent grads?
How to build a nuke? Nope… The US figured that out first remember?
What methods and ingredients were used to enrich uranium? Nope… every time Russia set off a nuke the radioisotope signature was sniffed out of the air.
How many bombers the USSR had? Nope… U2 spy plane provided the numbers.
How many ICBMs the USSR had and where they were? Nope, again the U2
To me its just a silly notion that the US would be interested in anything a few kids and a washed up ski instructor had. Does anyone really believe US spies would want to meet in one of the most inhospitable places on the planet, and then kill their assets? I think people vastly underestimate the US capability of obtaining information without murdering some kids that don’t have state secrets to begin with.
It was recently proposed to me that that the Russian officials of the time were keen on the idea that people talking about Ural missile bases and a possible missile explosion because it somehow kept the US on a wild goose chase wasting time and money looking for something with the U2 that didn’t exist. Ok, well let’s explore that a bit more in depth.
The U2 spy plane flew about 30 (that we know of) missions over the USSR in the late 1950s up to the last on May 1st 1960 when one was ‘finally’ shot down over Russia. Thats less then 14 months after the DP incident. So I wonder… when exactly did the rumors begin in Russia involving missiles and Ural missile bases being involved that would prompt the US government to desperately look for a site using up so much time and resources? Were ordinary Russians actually talking about this prior to May 1st 1960?? And if they were, do you really think the US was so far behind the curve that they rushed to waste assets? 30 missions…. most of which occurred prior to 1960. Missions that involved high resolution pictures of nearly every square inch of the USSR from an altitude of 60,000ft. It doesn’t add up.
View from a U2 at cruising altitude of 60,000ft capable of taking high resolution pictures of large sections of a continent during a single pass.
(https://i.ibb.co/zV4kPRR/7-B99-D00-E-7-B1-A-48-D5-95-EC-2-C4794-CE3-BAF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tpJdYss)
Oh but it doesn’t end there… just a couple years after the U2 there was the Lockeed A-12 that was capable of 3.5 times the speed of sound and sailed at an astonishing 90,000ft! It even carried an unmaned drone on its back….. what do you suppose they did with that in the 1960s!?
(https://i.ibb.co/gT0TVw5/C98-DEB03-E33-E-4-BCB-87-DF-EE298-A52-EEBB.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/RcW5sgY/18095-BE2-CE2-B-4303-A1-E4-EF220-BDA7-CD8.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/G2253KP/B863-AD28-6-A23-4304-A22-A-23-A5-BEC4325-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J77sFfk)
delete duplicates (https://dedupelist.com/)
And that turned into the SR-71. 🤷🏼♂️. 30,000ft higher then the U2 and it out ran any Russian missile breaking the sound barrier more then 3 times. shock1
(https://i.ibb.co/vcmF1fn/7-AB8-CB5-F-FB89-47-B2-BDE9-527-F71693-CC0.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Conclusion…
I am of great certainty that some people vastly underestimate the US capabilities to gather information without meeting and killing college students in a freezing blizzard on the top of a mountain in the middle of the night, and by 1960 the US had already plotted every base, every missile, every aircraft with high resolution photography. Thats just the way that it is. No conspiracy required.
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Point of view of an American. whacky1
Я так поняла - Вы выставили сопротивление версии Алексея Ракитина?
Она написана очень захватывающе, но чары спадают уже на половине книге. Там очень много дыр.
И самая главная - нет смысла убивать. Наоборот - был смысл оставить живыми. Это была бы демонстрация тотального превосходства.
Ну и конечно - радиоактивные штаны можно передать в куда более приличном для встреч месте.
As I understand it - you put up resistance to the version of Alexei Rakitin?
It is written in a very exciting way, but the spell breaks halfway through the book. There are a lot of holes there.
And most importantly - there is no point in killing. On the contrary, it made sense to keep them alive. It would be a demonstration of total superiority.
And of course - radioactive pants can be transferred to a much more decent place for meetings.
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...and the USA spies would run smack into that Russian military unit who were waiting for radioactive orange college kids with an exploding suitcase.
Who does not love the SR71? What a plane!
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Such a naive))) I would just hug and kiss...!!!
Do you really imagine that all the photos and maps are honest (as it were ... in Russian ..?)
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Все очень усложненно. Не верю в эту версию и в детектив Ракитина.
Everything is very complicated. I do not believe in this version and in detective Rakitin.
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Posts without English removed.
Posts having nothing to do with the topic removed. I would have moved them to the appropriate location, but it was just random chitchat.
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This brings back a memory of cold war killings that were left in prominent ways to basically thumb the opposing side.
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/headless-body-found-after-royal-3022567
this was 1957
On this day a little more than 50 years years ago, a high profile inquest was held after two fisherman found a body - missing its head, hands and some of its chest - floating in the English Channel.
"The body was said to be that of a Royal Navy Commander and MI6 diver named Lionel ‘Buster’ Crabb OBE, whose disappearance more than a year previously had prompted cover-ups by the authorities, frenzied press speculation, a diplomatic incident that prompted official complaints from Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev and an official apology from UK Prime Minister Anthony Eden - and inspired the classic James Bond film Thunderball."
Maybe this wasn't a badly covered up incident but a clear message to the US?
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...and the USA spies would run smack into that Russian military unit who were waiting for radioactive orange college kids with an exploding suitcase.
Who does not love the SR71? What a plane!
Interesting to note… the A-12 and SR-71 were entirely made from titanium obtained from Russia.
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Interesting to note… the A-12 and SR-71 were entirely made from titanium obtained from Russia.
Россия всегда делала очень практичные шаги. Раз титан на изделиях - наш, то и изделия - для нас - заметны и узнаваемы.
Сплав - не переплавить...Летайте родные и думайте что Вы - невидимки...
Russia has always taken very practical steps. Since the titanium on the products is ours, then the products - for us - are noticeable and recognizable.
Alloy - do not melt ... Fly relatives and think that you are invisible ...
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Interesting to note… the A-12 and SR-71 were entirely made from titanium obtained from Russia.
Россия всегда делала очень практичные шаги. Раз титан на изделиях - наш, то и изделия - для нас - заметны и узнаваемы.
Сплав - не переплавить...Летайте родные и думайте что Вы - невидимки...
Russia has always taken very practical steps. Since the titanium on the products is ours, then the products - for us - are noticeable and recognizable.
Alloy - do not melt ... Fly relatives and think that you are invisible ...
Titanium was invented by an English gentleman named William Gregor in 1761. The US just needed a lot more of it. It had a radar cross section of a bird.
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Titanium was invented by an English gentleman named William Gregor in 1761. The US just needed a lot more of it. It had a radar cross section of a bird.
Так Менделеев водку изобрел, а пьет её - вся здравомыслящая планета.
Но титан был наш. Как сырье или уже металлом. С тех самых пор - невидимости нет и не будет. Никогда.
Все что наше - поступило как сырье: помечено. Не знаю как американские дамы носят наши соболя.
Соболя-то - не лысеют, а дамы -?
So Mendeleev invented vodka, and the whole sensible planet drinks it.
But the titan was ours. As raw material or already metal. Since then, there has been no invisibility and never will be. Never.
Everything that is ours - came as raw materials: marked. I don't know how American ladies wear our sables.
Sables don't go bald, but ladies do?
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Literally one of the silliest things I’ve ever read. 😂😂
Claiming superior knowledge of a metal discovered by an English man…. priceless
Vodka is terrible btw
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На самом деле - это очень простая логика. Потому что Америка закупает титан - явно не для производства цветочных горшков.
Титан нужен - на вооружение, которое могут развернуть против страны, где куплен титан. Мира как такового - никогда не было.
Было противостояние с явной картиною недружелюбия или изображением дружелюбия. Русские быстро учатся и легко понимают перспективу.
Вторая Мировая - русских многому научила. Мы поняли, что обещание быть другом - это обещание, а не дружба.
Ну и вывод дальше - понятный. Надо иметь контроль над тем, что может быть направлено против нас.
В принципе, США ровно так же поступали. Продавая нам программное обеспечение и другие технологии. И мы про это - в курсе.
Actually, it's a very simple logic. Because America buys titanium - obviously not for the production of flower pots.
Titanium is needed - for weapons that can be deployed against the country where the titanium was bought. The world as such has never existed.
There was a confrontation with a clear picture of unfriendliness or a picture of friendliness. Russians learn quickly and easily understand the perspective.
World War II taught the Russians a lot. We realized that a promise to be a friend is a promise, not a friendship.
Well, the conclusion is clear. We must have control over what can be directed against us.
In principle, the United States acted in exactly the same way. By selling us software and other technologies. And we are aware of this.
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Literally one of the silliest things I’ve ever read. 😂😂
Claiming superior knowledge of a metal discovered by an English man…. priceless
Vodka is terrible btw
Открыть химический элемент не равно добыть его в руде и выплавить. Русские не обижаются когда их считают глупыми. Нам наоборот - это выгодно. Хуже если нас считают умными - тогда сложно играть в подкидного.
Вы не видели хорошей водки. Ничего страшного. Не в водке же дело?
Сколько сырья у США и во что из изделий пошло? Такого чтоб было собственным? Ведь и Китай - ровно такие же мудрецы как Россия.
Discovering a chemical element is not the same as extracting it in ore and smelting it. Russians are not offended when they are considered stupid. On the contrary, it is beneficial for us. Worse, if we are considered smart - then it is difficult to play a throw-in.
You haven't seen good vodka. It's OK. It's not about vodka, is it?
How much raw material does the USA have and what products did it go into? To be your own? After all, China is exactly the same wise men as Russia.
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I don’t think you understand. The US bought titanium from russia not because they are masters of titanium or have some secret titanium. The US simply needed a crap-ton of it… It was purchased by trickery through non existent shill companies setup by the CIA.
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I don’t think you understand. The US bought titanium from russia not because they are masters of titanium or have some secret titanium. The US simply needed a crap-ton of it… It was purchased by trickery through non existent shill companies setup by the CIA.
Очень смешно. Если помнить что в ЦРУ - наши люди. Причем давно и очень благополучно...
Не надо считать себя самыми умными - надо быть самыми умными. Умные люди не закупают через леваки - сырье для вооружения у страны условного противника.
Very funny. If you remember that the CIA - our people. And for a long time and very safely ...
You don't have to consider yourself the smartest - you have to be the smartest. Smart people do not buy through leftists - raw materials for weapons from the country of a conditional enemy.
Открыть Google Переводчик
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Оста
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Russia is not titanium special. And just because SR71 titanium came from russia does not constitute some superior mastery of the metal invented by an English man. Thats just ridiculous
(https://i.ibb.co/7nN9B8d/BD20-A58-D-2-C9-B-42-EA-92-F9-7704-AF30-B32-D.png) (https://ibb.co/PczSJ3v)
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This user done lost their mind and received a permanent ban for blatant rule violations.
Loose}{Cannon
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Unless any of the principals in the DPI have titanium plates in their skulls, I suggest we re direct and let this dead dog lie.
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That being said, when I first started to dabble in the DPI incident it was out of basic curiosity of the unknown. Having a mother in-law that is Russian, I asked her opinion on what she thinks happened to the DP group. Her response was interesting in that apparently she had grown up somewhere not far from where it happened (don’t ask me where because I don’t remember). She then continued to explain how there was no doubt in her mind that it was the fault of US spies that killed them after not handing over some state secret. She went on to explain how the US spies were trained to crush chest cavities bla bla bork bork. My first reaction was to chuckle, but as it dawned on me that she wasn’t joking, my laughter turned to sympathy. Let me explain…
Пропаганда и агитация в СССР велась очень широко и оправдывала все глупости и несуразности политики внутри страны. На скриншоте со ссылкой говорится о том, что в Тульской области - были перебои с продуктами, но на заседании членов ЦК Кириленко (бывший глава Свердловского обкома, с 1962 года переехавший в Кремль) - объявил виновниками агитаторов за то, что они плохо несут в народные массы информацию.
Propaganda and agitation in the USSR was conducted very widely and justified all the stupidities and absurdities of politics within the country. The screenshot with the link says that in the Tula region - there were interruptions with products, but at a meeting of the members of the Central Committee Kirilenko (the former head of the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee, who moved to the Kremlin in 1962) - declared the agitators to be the culprits for the fact that they poorly carry information to the masses.
(https://i.ibb.co/f0rS3Yd/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHQSXpT)
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(https://i.ibb.co/f0rS3Yd/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHQSXpT)
Here is a machine translation of the text in that image, courtesy of Google:
Quotes of well-known, authoritative persons characterizing A. P. Kirilenko in his writings. Free access material.
1. Zenkovich, Nikolai Alexandrovich - former head of the Press Center of the Central Committee of the CPSU, author of more than 30 books, writer, historian, well-known Russian publicist. “The most closed people>> - https://www.e- reading.by/chapter.php/1031727/86/Zenkovich____Samye_zakrytye_lyudi.html From 1962 to 1966, First Deputy Chairman of the Bureau of the Central Committee of the CPSU for the RSFSR. 06/01/1962 arrived in Novocherkassk, where there was a meeting of workers dissatisfied with the price increase, and persuaded N. S. Khrushchev to the decision to send troops into the city. Together with A. I. Mikoyan, F. R. Kozlov, A. N. Shelepin, D. S. Polyansky, who had arrived, they received N. S. Khrushchev’s consent to suppress the demonstration by force. As a result, 20 people were killed, including two women, and 87 people were injured.
. I preferred a selective, sinuous mat. According to A. N. Yakovlev, he was "a semi-literate man of the bulldozer type." At one of the meetings of the Secretariat of the Central Committee, which discussed the issue of interruptions in the supply of food to the inhabitants of Tula, he blamed agitators and propagandists for this, who did not explain the reasons for the difficulties. D. F. Ustinov sharply objected to him: “What do agitators have to do with it? There are queues for bread and milk, and agitators should tell people that this is normal?
In the last years of his work, outwardly having the appearance of a completely healthy person, he fell into a sclerotic state, confused surnames, started talking. At the XXVI Congress of the CPSU (March 1981), reading out the list of candidates for membership in the Central Committee, he pronounced their names in such a way that the hall of many thousands at first froze, and then with difficulty restrained laughter. It became obvious to the delegates that in front of them was a person or simply not able to - did not match any documents.
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Spies and propaganda ( as opposed to a well cooked goose LOL)
Of the many people directly or peripherally involved in the DPI, I would look to Yuri Yuden as the single most creditable source of information regarding the propaganda value of assassination of the hikers. After the breakup of the Soviet Union, he could sing like a canary. He did not. He remained convinced of military involvement, but he was one of many.
Propaganda can take many forms, but it boils down to information and disinformation. Within borders, it is a tool to control the masses. Beyond borders, it is tool to deflect interest. Nothing to my knowledge indicates that there was value for either one from a deliberate slaughter of innocents.
Spies? What spies?
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Propaganda can take many forms, but it boils down to information and disinformation. Within borders, it is a tool to control the masses. Beyond borders, it is tool to deflect interest. Nothing to my knowledge indicates that there was value for either one from a deliberate slaughter of innocents.
Spies? What spies?
В СССР власть воевала с народом и была безжалостна. Посмотрите посты на данном форуме про Чернобыль, про Новочеркасск, про ввод войск в Германию, Венгрию, в Чехословакию.. Малейшее подозрение на протест - был повод для уничтожения.
In the USSR, the government was at war with the people and was ruthless. Look at the posts on this forum about Chernobyl, about Novocherkassk, about the deployment of troops to Germany, Hungary, Czechoslovakia.. The slightest suspicion of a protest was a reason for destruction.
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Propaganda can take many forms, but it boils down to information and disinformation. Within borders, it is a tool to control the masses. Beyond borders, it is tool to deflect interest. Nothing to my knowledge indicates that there was value for either one from a deliberate slaughter of innocents.
Spies? What spies?
В СССР власть воевала с народом и была безжалостна. Посмотрите посты на данном форуме про Чернобыль, про Новочеркасск, про ввод войск в Германию, Венгрию, в Чехословакию.. Малейшее подозрение на протест - был повод для уничтожения.
In the USSR, the government was at war with the people and was ruthless. Look at the posts on this forum about Chernobyl, about Novocherkassk, about the deployment of troops to Germany, Hungary, Czechoslovakia.. The slightest suspicion of a protest was a reason for destruction.
With respect, I do not think your examples equate to the DPI. To my knowledge there was not " the slightest suspicion of a protest". These were college students out for a hike in the middle of winter, in the middle of nowhere. They spread no message of dissent according to their journals. They were invited to a school to teach children. They sang songs with no,double meaning of sedition. No, I submit that any attempt to link the DP9 to spies and propaganda is more of a reflection of the politics of the forum contributor(s) than the actual victims. They were killed from the weather.
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Propaganda can take many forms, but it boils down to information and disinformation. Within borders, it is a tool to control the masses. Beyond borders, it is tool to deflect interest. Nothing to my knowledge indicates that there was value for either one from a deliberate slaughter of innocents.
Spies? What spies?
В СССР власть воевала с народом и была безжалостна. Посмотрите посты на данном форуме про Чернобыль, про Новочеркасск, про ввод войск в Германию, Венгрию, в Чехословакию.. Малейшее подозрение на протест - был повод для уничтожения.
In the USSR, the government was at war with the people and was ruthless. Look at the posts on this forum about Chernobyl, about Novocherkassk, about the deployment of troops to Germany, Hungary, Czechoslovakia.. The slightest suspicion of a protest was a reason for destruction.
Yes, according to what I have read, and you most likely know people who experienced it personally, there was no need for proof in the soviet union. the trials were shams, if they were held and many people just disappeared, and denouncing a neighbor was not only encouraged but expected.
This made anyone unwilling to counter the official version of anything.
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There's also the fact, that (at least in the GDR) it was massive protests, many(!) people were on the streets, protesting against the status quo. It is logical (to an extent) for a government to want to stop that and therefore go to means even like tanks.
In the case of the hikers, it's 9 people, not several 100. You wouldn't act against 9 hikers as you would against several hundred protestants. (On the other hand, there were no tanks on the pass, so they didn't... wink1)
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Follow the money. Who got paid, promoted, or otherwise benefitted from a sloppily handled mass murder of college kids? Who was dumb enough to let survivor continue spending the rest of his days casting aspersions?
Answer. No one. Snow and cold require no payment.
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Maybe it's just a matter of "who didn't get demoted or send to the gulag"? We have no way of knowing that, because the lack of negative consequences can't be realistically proved.
I don't think it was a mass murder, I think it was an accident that someone tried to cover up for fear of becoming scapegoat.
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Maybe it's just a matter of "who didn't get demoted or send to the gulag"? We have no way of knowing that, because the lack of negative consequences can't be realistically proved.
I don't think it was a mass murder, I think it was an accident that someone tried to cover up for fear of becoming scapegoat.
The scapegoat hypothesis has better legs than assasination IMO, The devil is in the details.
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Maybe it's just a matter of "who didn't get demoted or send to the gulag"? We have no way of knowing that, because the lack of negative consequences can't be realistically proved.
I don't think it was a mass murder, I think it was an accident that someone tried to cover up for fear of becoming scapegoat.
The scapegoat hypothesis has better legs than assasination IMO, The devil is in the details.
It definitely is. But I feel the fasts fit better into a cover up story than pure accident. That's why I strongly believe, Teddy's theory is right.
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Teddy has done her work and she likes to provide facts. She does not post as much as we would like because there have been numerous trolls who like to throw rocks at her ideas. Elsewhere in the forum there was a pretty good scenario of Zolo being a hit man. These things all seem plausible from the vantage point of a chair in a warm room.
I believe that after the hikers plowed snow for a day, Igor convinced them that taking the high pass was preferable to threading their way through the trees to make camp in the next valley's forest. Instead of following the water course, they would just keep to the high ground to round Ortoten.This is why their final camp site looks authentic, not a prop.
They not only were not equal to the environmental challenges, they were also led by a non military person. Zolo would have been a better choice as tactician, but he was surely consulted.
Recall that they did not last three days away from civilization.
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What reason on earth would the US have to kill a couple of students and recent grads?
1. Not «earth the USA», but a specific group of CIA who have been dropped into a hostile country on an intelligence mission.
2. They killed to avoid arrest because at some point they thought they were facing a KGB group disguised as tourists and sent to capture them
How to build a nuke? Nope… The US figured that out first remember?
What methods and ingredients were used to enrich uranium? Nope… every time Russia set off a nuke the radioisotope signature was sniffed out of the air.
How many bombers the USSR had? Nope… U2 spy plane provided the numbers.
How many ICBMs the USSR had and where they were? Nope, again the U2.
For a professional military man (even a former one), it is inexcusable to have such naive ideas about the tasks of strategic intelligence and subjects that may interest her. neg1
"Blackbird" and U2 are good mechanisms, but from a height of 60,000 feet, not everything can be seen that one would like to see on the territory of a potential enemy in a future war in order to correctly assess its military and scientific and technical potential. There are many things that need microscopes, mass spectrometers and microphones to study, not telescopes. Therefore, both sides had to resort to the good old agent methods, and here the USSR was in a winning position, since its agents in Western countries could operate almost unhindered, while all foreigners who legally entered the USSR were restricted in freedom of movement, were under the supervision of the KGB counterintelligence services and therefore the effectiveness of using them to obtain intelligence data it was extremely low.
For the same reasons, recruitment agents of local residents was also difficult.
As a result, in the 50s, the West had not only (and not so much) to recruit its agents in the USSR, but to move them across the border secretly, as part of a CIA program called AERODYNAMIC. They were hired exclusively from among the former citizens of the USSR. They were trained in special schools on the territory of Germany and were transferred across the border mainly by air, followed by parachuting.
Only the CIA knows how many them were abandoned at that time. According to Russian open sources, 33 such agents were caught during the KGB counter-operation called "ZVENO" from 1950 to 1959. 18 died during arrest - in shootings or as a result of suicide, and some survivors of the KGB were persuaded to cooperate and then used them in radio games with the CIA. Version A. Rakitin suggests that during one of these radio games, in the KGB matured an operation plan to introduce its agents into the CIA information field in order to supply CIA analysts with false, disorienting data through them and to some extent control the actions of the CIA. inside the USSR
The version did not appear during the Cold War, but 2012, and it does not contain any anti-American propaganda. It is a dry, dispassionate story about one of the episodes of the confrontation between US intelligence and Soviet counterintelligence, that's all. Despite the fact that some of its small details do not look very plausible, in general, the version is logical and does not contradict either common sense or the realities of that time. Theoretically, it could be. But practically, as Anna Russian rightly noted, the version is too complex and literary to materialize in real life. Everything that happens in reality, as a rule, has a banal and primitive basis and we see mystery where we us lack either the knowledge to correctly explain the available facts, or the IQ to see all the cause-and-effect relationships and draw the right conclusions from all this.
What methods and ingredients were used to enrich uranium? Nope… every time Russia set off a nuke the radioisotope signature was sniffed out of the air.
The radioisotope signature present in the air after nuclear explosions does not allow us to judge the methods of uranium enrichment. That is why the United States did not know until the beginning of the 1970s that in the USSR as early as 1957 to create industrial lines for enriching uranium by the gas centrifuge method, which requires 54.6 times less energy than method gas diffusion used in the United States
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I'm glad the US eventually shot down that Chinese spy balloon. All these years later, long after the development of groundbreaking high altitude spy planes, and something as old-fashioned as that got everyone in a flap.
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We just wanted to demonstrate to all of our allies who are also being electronically monitored by similar Chinese balloons how to do it. ;)