Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: tenne on February 22, 2023, 06:50:21 PM
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I find it very hard to understand what happened at the cedar that lead to someone repositioning Yuri D after he passed away.
Did they stand there at the fire and when he fell and laid there on the snow full length, not the best way to stay warm btw, did they just wait until he died and then moved him and walked away?
Why didn't they try to attend to whatever injury was causing his "ear, nose and lips are covered with blood" and at least clean off the blood? anything wet isn't good in these temps and blood will freeze. No one bothering to clean up his face makes me wonder if anyone able bodied was there with him. cleaning the face seems to be very common first aid
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based on this summery from this website
"Later Yury Yudin will testify that the long sleeved shirt found on the body of Igor Dyatlov was his. But he gave it to Doroshenko then he was departing. It would be logical to assume that Dyatlov got it from a frozen body of the Doroshenko after he had died."
it would indicate that there were at least 3 people at the cedar, so when did Igor take the shirt from Doroshekno (asumming he did)
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"15 m from the den, they found a spoon and a knife sheath. Official criminal investigation, Decision to dismiss criminal case:
"The bodies were found few meters away from the clothes found of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko - pants, sweater. All clothes had been cut when they were taken from the bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko."
so some clothing was found between the tent and the cedar and some was found between the ravine (where the bodies were found) and where the den was found
so people stood around, didn't wipe off the blood, waited until the Yuris were deceased, turned one over, cut some of their clothing off and then went seperate ways?
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And one of the hikers brought a spoon when they left the tent.
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another odd thing is the clothing was cut off, some of it at least. A body doesn't freeze instantly and it relatively easy to take clothing off a limp body as it looks like Igor did.
so they waited until the two were frozen stiff and then cut off the clothing and took it while Igor took the intact sweater right away?
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Maybe Doroshenko gave the shirt/jacket to Dyatlov after Yuri left the group. Doroshenko was a big guy, so maybe it didn't fit that well? I'd imagine if you were freezing to death and needed some clothes to wear, you probably wouldn't want to cut them apart.
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I agree that is why cutting them off seems so strange, not to mention did they wait until the person was frozen before they cut it off? Just dirt around waiting?
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Just stood around waiting for him to freeze? didn't realize there was a spelling mistake
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Grist to the mill for conspiracy advocates. Were not clothes cut from corpses at the morgue? Were there orders given to put the deceased right back where they were found and re dressed? I,do not buy it.
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Grist to the mill for conspiracy advocates. Were not clothes cut from corpses at the morgue? Were there orders given to put the deceased right back where they were found and re dressed? I,do not buy it.
"15 m from the den, they found a spoon and a knife sheath. Official criminal investigation, Decision to dismiss criminal case:
"The bodies were found few meters away from the clothes found of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko - pants, sweater. All clothes had been cut when they were taken from the bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko."
so you are saying that the clothes were cut at the morgue and then returned to the scene? or are you disputing the official record?
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I prefer Occam's Razor. Just not for cutting fabric LOL. The,survivors simply did what they could with what they had.
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I prefer Occam's Razor. Just not for cutting fabric LOL. The,survivors simply did what they could with what they had.
so are you agreeing the official reports are saying cut clothing was found at the site?
clothing is in much better at keeping people warm if it is whole, I am pretty sure we will agree with that. Taking clothing off a limp body isn't hard and keeps the clothing whole. So at what point did they cut the clothing off the frozen bodies?
Yuri had to be moved after death but before the body froze, as indicated by the spots and that wouldn't happen after it froze, so did they flip him, left him to freeze and then cut it? they had to be there at some point to get the clothing
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I find it very hard to understand what happened at the cedar that lead to someone repositioning Yuri D after he passed away.
Did they stand there at the fire and when he fell and laid there on the snow full length, not the best way to stay warm btw, did they just wait until he died and then moved him and walked away?
Why didn't they try to attend to whatever injury was causing his "ear, nose and lips are covered with blood" and at least clean off the blood? anything wet isn't good in these temps and blood will freeze. No one bothering to clean up his face makes me wonder if anyone able bodied was there with him. cleaning the face seems to be very common first aid
Yuri D was not necessarily repositioned, if the did , it doesn't mean they did after he passed away.
Who is saying the watched him die and walk away?
Cleaning a face of mild blood is not the priority if everyone one is exposed to the elements of the weather. How would spending time wiping a face of blood serve the severity of the situation. First aid has nothing to do with freezing and everyone is in the same situation of heat loss.
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I find it very hard to understand what happened at the cedar that lead to someone repositioning Yuri D after he passed away.
Did they stand there at the fire and when he fell and laid there on the snow full length, not the best way to stay warm btw, did they just wait until he died and then moved him and walked away?
Why didn't they try to attend to whatever injury was causing his "ear, nose and lips are covered with blood" and at least clean off the blood? anything wet isn't good in these temps and blood will freeze. No one bothering to clean up his face makes me wonder if anyone able bodied was there with him. cleaning the face seems to be very common first aid
Yuri D was not necessarily repositioned, if the did , it doesn't mean they did after he passed away.
Who is saying the watched him die and walk away?
Cleaning a face of mild blood is not the priority if everyone one is exposed to the elements of the weather. How would spending time wiping a face of blood serve the severity of the situation. First aid has nothing to do with freezing and everyone is in the same situation of heat loss.
"Livor mortis spots were located at the back of the neck, torso and extremities, which was not consistent with the position of the body in which it was found. This means the body was moved some time after the blood stopped circulating." from this website.
so he was turned over after he died and before he froze and some of his clothing was cut away after he was frozen, I assume as it would make the clothing less effective at keeping them warm, so they would rather take them after he had died but was still limber.
The cut clothing was found by the den:
"15 m from the den, they found a spoon and a knife sheath. Official criminal investigation, Decision to dismiss criminal case:
"The bodies were found few meters away from the clothes found of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko - pants, sweater. All clothes had been cut when they were taken from the bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko"
so someone at the den was at the cedar after the two yuri's had passed away or were there while it happened, either way, it just seems decent to me to clean up their face as you take their clothing
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I find it very hard to understand what happened at the cedar that lead to someone repositioning Yuri D after he passed away.
Did they stand there at the fire and when he fell and laid there on the snow full length, not the best way to stay warm btw, did they just wait until he died and then moved him and walked away?
Why didn't they try to attend to whatever injury was causing his "ear, nose and lips are covered with blood" and at least clean off the blood? anything wet isn't good in these temps and blood will freeze. No one bothering to clean up his face makes me wonder if anyone able bodied was there with him. cleaning the face seems to be very common first aid
Yuri D was not necessarily repositioned, if the did , it doesn't mean they did after he passed away.
Who is saying the watched him die and walk away?
Cleaning a face of mild blood is not the priority if everyone one is exposed to the elements of the weather. How would spending time wiping a face of blood serve the severity of the situation. First aid has nothing to do with freezing and everyone is in the same situation of heat loss.
"Livor mortis spots were located at the back of the neck, torso and extremities, which was not consistent with the position of the body in which it was found. This means the body was moved some time after the blood stopped circulating." from this website.
so he was turned over after he died and before he froze and some of his clothing was cut away after he was frozen, I assume as it would make the clothing less effective at keeping them warm, so they would rather take them after he had died but was still limber.
The cut clothing was found by the den:
"15 m from the den, they found a spoon and a knife sheath. Official criminal investigation, Decision to dismiss criminal case:
"The bodies were found few meters away from the clothes found of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko - pants, sweater. All clothes had been cut when they were taken from the bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonischenko"
so someone at the den was at the cedar after the two yuri's had passed away or were there while it happened, either way, it just seems decent to me to clean up their face as you take their clothing
Whatever was happening at the ceder I would guess cleaning up the face was not priority, I don't know enough about the bleeding at death during hypothermia . Although the clottec blood is stated to be minor ,plus some of what is observed is frostbite which means he lived long enough for that to happen.
If they were all suffering from the same event, positioning , toxic gas, cold etc then they would all be battling for survival. It seems logical that they cut small furs and collected the branches to make a fire.
I can understand stand the retrieval of clothing and possibly cuting off trousers and taking a jumper, if they had now died. but I must admit it's difficult to workout the chronological events.
The two Yuri's may have been failing and the fire was made whilst the others built the snow den . Perhaps on returning to the ceder from the den , the Yuri's had succumbed to the cold. The Yuri's could not maintain the fire?
They report that there was a number of green fir branches left lying on and around the ceder which would have been the best insulation in the circumstances but wasn't utilised. Why there's clothing lying around is confusing.
There is debate if it was livor mortis spots or not somewhere else on this site but It does look like he was laid to rest and I can't imagine the group not sharing clothes if one of them was in a sleeveless shirt and others had several shirts/jumpers/jackets. I would have to admit that there is a strong case for post mortem manipulation of the 2 Yuri's.
The only other thing I can think of is paradoxical undressing.
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I have the same feelings about the events and in what order they happened. I thought that the sweater kinda proved that Igor was at the cedar but the post saying it could have been on Igor no matter who it was given to made me change that thought to all I can prove to myself is someone from the den was at the cedar after yuri froze.
paradoxical undressing also occurred to me cutting off the clothing of other people makes me wonder. If they felt they were too warm, why cut off people's clothing?
the blood being wiped off was thinking that at least Igor was there while yuri was alive because he had his sweater so IMO he would try to do first aid and taking a substance that will freeze and reduce body warmth but now that I have changed that thought, I agree with you it wouldn't be a first priority for anyone finding a frozen body
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The cedar tree was being used a central hub to stockpile tree clippings and clothing to make the snow den. Or, at least, that was the impression that the first searchers at the scene got. And so the tourists would be coming and going, not just to get supplies or drop them off, but also to sit by the fire and warm themselves up. Considering they were trying to dig out a snow den with their bare hands, in frigid temperatures, many of them underdressed, they would have needed frequent breaks to stave off hypothermia.
So I think what happened is Dyatlov told Yuri and Yurkin to tend the fire and keep an eye on the tent, or at least keep an eye on the direction where the tent was, while the rest would make the snow den. The two men look like they fell out of the tree, and that’s probably what happened. For instance, maybe one of them fell asleep through sheer exhaustion and the other one tried to save him, but lost his balance as well.
Between a nasty fall and frigid temperatures they didn’t have the strength to get back up. Perhaps, they hoped one of the others would come back and eventually, someone did, but it was already too late.
Obviously, after the other three hikers were badly injured, Dyatlov must have realized that they needed to return to the tent and brave whatever danger was there. He helped transport the injured to the snow den, left them in Kolevatov’s care, and returned to the campfire to cut the shirt off Yurkin, rolling him over the process. Then he, Zina, and Slobodin began their ill-fated trek back toward the tent.
Meanwhile, Kolevatov could have gathered up the other garments from the deceased to place on the floor of the den, and dress Luda with. Tragically, though, it didn’t matter. Dyatlov never came back.
Admittedly, that’s a lot of suppositions. However, I was trying to come up with a scenario that reasonably fit the known facts.
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I like that thinking of them using the fire as a quick way to get warm going back and forth.
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makes as much sense as anything does. If they fell and were hurt, that might make the other 3 feel that they had to get back to the tent for first aid supplies?
this was brought up on the russian forum and it seems to be a sticking point if the snow was too deep to go back and forth and/or wouldn't there be a path make if they did. I don't know enough about it to say yes or no to those ideas, just throwing them out.
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makes as much sense as anything does. If they fell and were hurt, that might make the other 3 feel that they had to get back to the tent for first aid supplies?
this was brought up on the russian forum and it seems to be a sticking point if the snow was too deep to go back and forth and/or wouldn't there be a path make if they did. I don't know enough about it to say yes or no to those ideas, just throwing them out.
God knows I’m not an expert on the great outdoors. But I think if the path led under the trees, and it would have had to since they were cutting tree clippings, the path would not have been preserved by the time the searchers stumbled across the bodies. The snow sliding from the tree tops, as well as snowfall in general, would have obscured it and there were no strong winds in the forest to blow it away. Sharavin said that even the footprints they saw leading down the hill toward the cedar disappeared as they neared the tree line.
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that makes sense, I can't tell from the photos of the den if there could have been a trail there or not.
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The cedar tree was being used a central hub to stockpile tree clippings and clothing to make the snow den. Or, at least, that was the impression that the first searchers at the scene got.
But, the first searchers on the scene didn't know about the den. The search party wouldn't dig up the den until May.
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The cedar tree was being used a central hub to stockpile tree clippings and clothing to make the snow den. Or, at least, that was the impression that the first searchers at the scene got.
But, the first searchers on the scene didn't know about the den. The search party wouldn't dig up the den until May.
It was a recollection. The searchers did not know what the clippings were for at the time they found the camp. They only knew that they were not good for firewood, had not been used for firewood, and there were plenty of other materials near at hand that were far better. The discarded clothing was also a mystery. At first, they just chalked up to paradoxical undressing. It was only after the den was found that the mystery was finally cleared up.
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An indicator that at that time someone or more had their wits about them. They were not evading predators two or four legged. They were not doped, nor poisoned, just crazy cold.Accidents happen when you can't feel stuff.
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The youth were divided into three groups. If there was a human element, they would not be divisible by 3. Even if there was a split it would have been by escaping into the forest. But there is no escape!!!(?) There is no hiding either!!!(?) Even Igor Rustem and Zina are going back to the tent! Two Yuri's are lighting a fire in the tree! And the other four are digging a snow cave very close to the tree! All this removes the human element in the event. If there is a human element, you would expect the youngsters to run away and hide in the far reaches of the forest. In fact, they light a fire and return to the tent(???) There is absolutely no natural phenomenon.... Then there is only one answer: ''Unknown compelling POWER'' Unknown means power that no one can predict. But whatever this Power is, it is clear that it is not an ordinary power like the Yeti.....A very knowledgeable, experienced, wise power that knows what it is doing!!!!
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I've read a post - I believe by WAB (can't locate it, unfortunately) - which suggests the hikers broke up into at least three groups when descending the hill and didn't see each other alive again. Thus, Semyon, Tibo, Kolevatov and Lyuda made it down the hill together and may have come across the two Yuris both dead at the cedar already, drawn by a little light or the smell of smoke of their failing fire. They took their clothes and arranged their bodies respectfully before moving on the building the den or snow cave.
Apart from the shirt, which can be explained by the hikers swapping clothing with each other, is there any evidence at all which suggests Igor, Zina and Rustem were at the cedar?
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An indicator that at that time someone or more had their wits about them. They were not evading predators two or four legged. They were not doped, nor poisoned, just crazy cold.Accidents happen when you can't feel stuff.
Even an amateur doesn't die from extreme cold in 6-8 hours, Glennm. Especially if you are in a tent and you have clothes, it is not possible.... Put your dream of dying from this cold aside, I think.....They had both professional tents and clothes. No matter how cold the weather is, it is absolutely impossible for them to die of cold under these conditions. It is not possible for all of them to die of cold all at once....I don't even see a one in a million chance.
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The trip was longer than 6 to 8 hours.The diet was restricted, the conditions severe. I believe that under normal circumstances the tour would have been completed successfully. It was clear to me that the hikers were not equal to the conditions. They were not cohesive as a group and they had little money and poor equipment. When the slab slip happened it set into motion a chain of events that could not be reversed. Bad things happen to good people.
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I've read a post - I believe by WAB (can't locate it, unfortunately) - which suggests the hikers broke up into at least three groups when descending the hill and didn't see each other alive again. Thus, Semyon, Tibo, Kolevatov and Lyuda made it down the hill together and may have come across the two Yuris both dead at the cedar already, drawn by a little light or the smell of smoke of their failing fire. They took their clothes and arranged their bodies respectfully before moving on the building the den or snow cave.
Apart from the shirt, which can be explained by the hikers swapping clothing with each other, is there any evidence at all which suggests Igor, Zina and Rustem were at the cedar?
It is not possible for them to be separated from each other willingly or unwillingly in a short distance of 1.5 km. It is evident from the footprints that they walked 500 meters together. Both locations are on the same plane. They continue in the same direction. And logically, after the group is taken out of the tent, they have to go to the forest and make a fire. It would be better for them to do this together. Why should they separate??? They're making a plan. Igor tells the two Yuries to climb up the tree and spy on the Unknown power. And he plans to take Rüstem and Zina with him and return to the tent. It shows great courage. The other 4 do not want to stay near the fire. Maybe they can't keep the fire going. Because a burning fire is always better than a snow cave. The possible fire is extinguished and they are going to build a snow cave. I don't think it's very likely that they'll leave before the fire goes out.
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The trip was longer than 6 to 8 hours.The diet was restricted, the conditions severe. I believe that under normal circumstances the tour would have been completed successfully. It was clear to me that the hikers were not equal to the conditions. They were not cohesive as a group and they had little money and poor equipment. When the slab slip happened it set into motion a chain of events that could not be reversed. Bad things happen to good people.
The group had enough food. All sorts of things.... And their moment of death happened 6-8 hours after their last meal. It is clear from the autopsies of these young people. Their stomachs were full and it had only been 6-8 hours until the moment they died!!! And the group definitely got along very well. They were all in unity and solidarity. While some members of the group were poor, others were rich and had enough money. If you throw an amateur in the forest, he will not die overnight. It even lasts up to a week unless it gets wet. It may even last for months if it finds food.
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The reason why I believe that entire group minus the two Yuris worked on the snow den instead of three of them heading towards the tent is because the three that headed for the tent would have had to have been at the end of their endurance not to have reached it. Meaning, they were away from their tent for a good while; maybe an hour, if not more. So what were they doing all that time? Watching the others build the snow den while the two Yuris froze to death beside them? Plus, regardless of any argument that Semyon and Igor might have had about it, I don’t think Zina would have left Luda unless she thought the best hope her friend had for survival was for her to leave her and return to the tent. And I don’t think Luda would have chosen to go with the group she did if they had split up. She would have stayed with Zina, and she didn’t even like Kolevatov.
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The reason why I believe that entire group minus the two Yuris worked on the snow den instead of three of them heading towards the tent is because the three that headed for the tent would have had to have been at the end of their endurance not to have reached it. Meaning, they were away from their tent for a good while; maybe an hour, if not more. So what were they doing all that time? Watching the others build the snow den while the two Yuris froze to death beside them? Plus, regardless of any argument that Semyon and Igor might have had about it, I don’t think Zina would have left Luda unless she thought the best hope her friend had for survival was for her to leave her and return to the tent. And I don’t think Luda would have chosen to go with the group she did if they had split up. She would have stayed with Zina, and she didn’t even like Kolevatov.
I feel you have added a reasonable thought process to events at the ceder. If I may modify, it is possible that all 9 reached the ceder together, irrelevant of what the trigger was to leaning the tent.
Finding themselves in the situation against the cold they would have to assign tasks to survive. Get wood, build shelter etc. The scenario can play out in a number of ways but I would assume they would give separate tasks. Group 1 , build shelter, group 2 make fire, group 3 collect spruce and fir branches for insulation from the ground.
This is logical and there is evidence of all three things being done. Quite what happens after or during this episode may add to the confusion but the basic premise is there. , Shelter, wood , fire. ( In no particular order) .
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The reason why I believe that entire group minus the two Yuris worked on the snow den instead of three of them heading towards the tent is because the three that headed for the tent would have had to have been at the end of their endurance not to have reached it. Meaning, they were away from their tent for a good while; maybe an hour, if not more. So what were they doing all that time? Watching the others build the snow den while the two Yuris froze to death beside them? Plus, regardless of any argument that Semyon and Igor might have had about it, I don’t think Zina would have left Luda unless she thought the best hope her friend had for survival was for her to leave her and return to the tent. And I don’t think Luda would have chosen to go with the group she did if they had split up. She would have stayed with Zina, and she didn’t even like Kolevatov.
In life and death situations, it is possible for two women to separate from each other. And 3 people returning to the tent have certain features that distinguish them from the other 6 people. 1. Their main characteristics are being brave 2. Being sane and intelligent 3. Being physically stronger and resilient 4. Being a leader 5. Having a fighting and warrior spirit.... This trio group had superior qualities than the others. And while the others were hiding and trying to warm themselves in the fire, they dared to return to the tent. Zina left Lumina. And I don't believe the group built a big snow cave. They didn't have time for that, but they could have built a small cave. Of course, they must have done this not with their hands, but with the tree branches they collected from the environment.
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The reason why I believe that entire group minus the two Yuris worked on the snow den instead of three of them heading towards the tent is because the three that headed for the tent would have had to have been at the end of their endurance not to have reached it. Meaning, they were away from their tent for a good while; maybe an hour, if not more. So what were they doing all that time? Watching the others build the snow den while the two Yuris froze to death beside them? Plus, regardless of any argument that Semyon and Igor might have had about it, I don’t think Zina would have left Luda unless she thought the best hope her friend had for survival was for her to leave her and return to the tent. And I don’t think Luda would have chosen to go with the group she did if they had split up. She would have stayed with Zina, and she didn’t even like Kolevatov.
I feel you have added a reasonable thought process to events at the ceder. If I may modify, it is possible that all 9 reached the ceder together, irrelevant of what the trigger was to leaning the tent.
Finding themselves in the situation against the cold they would have to assign tasks to survive. Get wood, build shelter etc. The scenario can play out in a number of ways but I would assume they would give separate tasks. Group 1 , build shelter, group 2 make fire, group 3 collect spruce and fir branches for insulation from the ground.
This is logical and there is evidence of all three things being done. Quite what happens after or during this episode may add to the confusion but the basic premise is there. , Shelter, wood , fire. ( In no particular order) .
Yes, fire shelter and return to the tent....These three definitely happened. First the fire, then the shelter, then the return to the tent......But the unknown Force returned and killed them all one by one. May God protect them, forgive them and put them in Heaven...
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The cedar tree was being used a central hub to stockpile tree clippings and clothing to make the snow den. Or, at least, that was the impression that the first searchers at the scene got.
But, the first searchers on the scene didn't know about the den. The search party wouldn't dig up the den until May.
That is what was being said on the russian forum, that going back and forth would make a path and it would be found much sooner.
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if they had the ability to move between the cedar and the den and collect up branches, then I don't understand why they didn't just build a tree blind at the cedar by weaving the branches together to stop the wind? much less effort, much less sweating and the wind would be blocked. As experienced outdoors people they should have released that
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I would think a snow hole would keep you warmer over night.
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yes and no, the wind blind would have a fire there so it would be much warmer than a cave without a fire and no evidence of a fire has been found in the den.
plus the cost benefit payout for a wind blind is much higher as there is much less physical effort, so less sweating and contact with the snow, plus it could be done in the warmth of the fire.
cedar branches are very bendy and the needles are flat and would help stop the wind
if the photo of the den is accurate, they were out in the wind walking there and making it while not in as much wind and a fire at the cedar
If it was me, a wind blind would be made, keeping the fire going is the main priority has been drilled into me and leaving it makes zero sense
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The reason why I believe that entire group minus the two Yuris worked on the snow den instead of three of them heading towards the tent is because the three that headed for the tent would have had to have been at the end of their endurance not to have reached it. Meaning, they were away from their tent for a good while; maybe an hour, if not more. So what were they doing all that time? Watching the others build the snow den while the two Yuris froze to death beside them? Plus, regardless of any argument that Semyon and Igor might have had about it, I don’t think Zina would have left Luda unless she thought the best hope her friend had for survival was for her to leave her and return to the tent. And I don’t think Luda would have chosen to go with the group she did if they had split up. She would have stayed with Zina, and she didn’t even like Kolevatov.
In life and death situations, it is possible for two women to separate from each other. And 3 people returning to the tent have certain features that distinguish them from the other 6 people. 1. Their main characteristics are being brave 2. Being sane and intelligent 3. Being physically stronger and resilient 4. Being a leader 5. Having a fighting and warrior spirit.... This trio group had superior qualities than the others. And while the others were hiding and trying to warm themselves in the fire, they dared to return to the tent. Zina left Lumina. And I don't believe the group built a big snow cave. They didn't have time for that, but they could have built a small cave. Of course, they must have done this not with their hands, but with the tree branches they collected from the environment.
I didn’t say it wasn’t possible. I only said I don’t think it happened, especially in the context of a disagreement resulting in a rift in the group. And that was not even the main reason why I do not believe the group split up, except for the two Yuris, who I believe stayed with the fire because Dyatlov told them that. Rather, it’s the time element. And I don’t think they built a big old snow den. But they might have meant to, considering the tree clippings and discarded clothing, which weren’t used.
I should probably state that in my scenario, Luda isn’t injured at the tent, and therefore, likely neither is Semyon because the medical examiner felt that whatever caused their injuries was the same thing. And the reason I don’t believe that Luda was injured at the tent is because the medical examiner only gave her twenty minutes to live. And the snow den would have taken a lot longer to build than that. So, why carry a corpse to the snow den, or at least attempt to? If they were injured in some way while constructing the snow den, though, then that would have definitely changed Igor’s plans. It would not have been just a fight against the cold anymore. So the den was going to be of minimal use to them. But they still needed a place to put the injured, and I don’t even think they got them to the den, because they weren’t found in the den. Probably their uninjured companions just didn’t have the strength to carry them the last few feet to the den. So Igor left Kolevatov with them and just told him to do what he could for them.
If they’re were injured at the tent, however, and they just didn’t realize that Luda had died or they were really speedy at making a snow den, then Igor, Rustem, and Zina would have most definitely had to take part in building the snow den. And they would have probably have done that to put the injured in it while they went back to the tent.
And if they were carrying out different tasks, I don’t think that it was because of a disagreement between the hikers. It fits the scenario more and their status as professional skiers that in survival mode they would have worked together and been assigned tasks by Igor. The snow den could have even been a compromise between Igor and Zolotaryov. The way some people talk about their relationship, it sounds more like a soap opera, and I’ve never even seen that much evidence that Igor and Semyon were that much on the outs with each other. But it does make sense to me that the snow den was Semyon’s idea.
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The cedar tree was being used a central hub to stockpile tree clippings and clothing to make the snow den. Or, at least, that was the impression that the first searchers at the scene got.
But, the first searchers on the scene didn't know about the den. The search party wouldn't dig up the den until May.
That is what was being said on the russian forum, that going back and forth would make a path and it would be found much sooner.
They didn’t find the snow den in February because their probes were too short. But they did search the area the snow den was in, because well, they didn’t call it a path, but they did see some tree clippings and parts of clothing that looked kind of weird and out of place. If you’re talking about footprints or a trail in the snow, though, it’s kind of hard to believe that would have not been filled in by snow in the three weeks that the bodies were there.
And you also have to take into account that some of the searchers reported that no one was really interested in finding the other missing hikers in February and the attempts were cursory at best. I don’t even think an attempt was even made to get longer probes in the three months until the spring thaw. They could have found them a lot sooner, if they just did that.
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I keep hearing this but it makes no sense. How can tree clippings and clothing be on top of the snow but the den under metres of snow?
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The clothes and tree stumpss towards the den were covered and even at the ceder. They searched the ceder area and found some items, the snow was not deep, we must remember the ceder its self is cover from snow fall, I would guess, snow must blow through the area at the ceder also or it is well covered by the fir branches.
The den and the ravine are mostly exposed and have little tree protection allowing snow to gather in the creeks and ridges. The snow stays there until it melts. This snow would gather in these ravines from the beginning of the snow season.
As the snow melted towards May, the trails around the ceder were seen to make a path towards the den and ravine, it was the thawing of snow that exposed twigs and clues to activity towards the den. They had been searching on the slope for the bodies with probes that we're reaching the ground.
They were systematically going through the area but it took time. On probing around the den after seeing the evidence of the trail that was exposed by the thaw they requested longer poles, this is when they probed some flesh . They were going to search there eventually and I believe they dammed the stream to be able to excavate safely.
There is suggestion that the clothes weren't found exactly as they were in the photo of the den. Theres clothes at the ceder, away from the ceder and around or above the den area. The clippings and twigs would be what caught the Mansi eyes, this would show activity unusual to that of nature.
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It is very interesting that two Yuri's changed places after death in Cedar(?!?!). 2. Mansi did it. 3. Unknown compelling Force made!!! Who did it??? I think the Unknown Force dropped them from the tree and they fell into the fire and died. And the Mansi later found them on the fire and pulled them out from there and placed them aside... And they also took out the clothes that were burning from the fire. And then they saw the tent. And they went to the tent and did some research, and they left the lantern there and went. Another option is Unknown Power. The unknown Power didn't want them to suffer any more in the fire and pulled them aside. The last option is definitely not teenagers. Because if the young people saw them falling from the tree and heard their screams, they would run away to the forest!!! They wouldn't dig a snow cave and hide there.