Dyatlov Pass Forum
Theories Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Axelrod on May 16, 2023, 08:01:52 AM
-
Hello people!
ENGLISH BOOK https://testavk.poliglotpro.ru/axelrod/en/-def/contents.htm
RUSSIAN BOOK https://testavk.poliglotpro.ru/axelrod/ru/-def/contents.htm
(a am planning to transfer this to gisly.net later)
I present to you my book "The clue to the Dyatlov Pass (after 64 years)", which I started six months ago and at the same time prepared both in the form of a website and in the form of a book of 750 A4 sheets (as a .pdf for printing).
This is an anthology of investigation + my thoughts.
The book is written in Russian. With translation into English (German, French, Spanish are also planned).
In the fall, inspired by the books of Sogrin and Arkhipov (especially the book about Gantz and Vozrozhdenny), I also decided to write a book about for my relatives about Moses Axelrod, and in the winter I decided to look into the incident itself and add it to the book. In December, I registered on the Russian forum taina.li and developed some materials there. Well, how will readers react, and what else needs to be added. During the Christmas holidays, I fully understood the reasons for what happened, I decided to stop writing new ideas on that forum (there are visas due to the unfavorable overloaded environment there), and decided to write everything in the form of a book. I wrote the book in 128 days. The book turned out to be twice as big as I originally thought. It turned out 2 books of 250 pages, (or 1 book of 750 pages). Plus more prefaces and Mansi dictionaries (3 pages).
(Today I received a summons to the Ukrainian military registration and enlistment office to clarify my status and I'm already worried about my tomorrow. Therefore, I decided to post it today in the current version.)
The material still needs some work, but if I get back alive, I'll be done.
Anatoly.
-----------------
Здравствуйте, люди!
Представляю вам свою книгу «Разгадка перевала Дятлова (спустя 64 года)» , которую я начал полгода назад и одновременно готовил как в виде сайта, так и в виде книги 750 листов А4 (в виде .pdf для распечатки).
Это антология расследования + мои соображения.
Книга написана на русском языке. С переводом на английский (также планируется немецкий, французский, испанский язык).
Осенью я, воодушевлённый книгам Согрина и Архипова (особенно книгой последнего про медэкспертов Возрожденного и Ганца), решил тоже написать книгу про родственника Моисея Аксельрода, а зимой решил разобраться в самом происшествии, и добавить это в книгу. В декабре я зарегистрировался на русском форуме taina.li и некоторые материалы обкатывал там. Ну, как будут реагировать читатели, и что ещё надо добавить. В рождественские каникулы мне пришло полное понимание причин произошедшего, я я решил прекратить писать новые идеи на том форуме (там виз-за неблагоприятной перегруженной обстановки там), и написать всё в виде книги. Книгу я писал 128 дней. Книга получилась вдвое-втрое больше, чем я предполагал изначально. Получилось 2 книги по 250 страниц, (или 1 книга 750 страниц). Плюс ещё предисловия и мансийские словари (3 страницы).
(Сегодня я получил повестку в украинский военкомат для выяснения моего статуса и уже беспокоюсь за свой завтрашний день. Поэтому решил выкладывать сегодня в текущем варианте.)
Материал ещё требует доработки, но если я вернусь живым, то закончу.
Анатолий.
---
ENGLISH VARIANT https://testavk.poliglotpro.ru/axelrod/en/-def/contents.htm
RUSSIAN VARIANT https://testavk.poliglotpro.ru/axelrod/ru/-def/contents.htm
I need your help to make English text correct. Some text (marked with @) in already translated on this site, and some materials a want to propose as articles on site (some are already processed< e.g. Korotaev).
-
Thank you Axelrod. I look forward to reading it.
-
I looked through the Russian version and drew conclusions:
1. There is practically no author's text and personal opinion of the author.
2. The sections "My technogenic, my natural versions" are named incorrectly, these are not your versions, but those that were published earlier.
3. The book is a collection of extraneous materials on the topic of Dyatlov Pass.
The main thing is that the book does not mention the dominant role of the CPSU in this terrible tragedy. That by order from above, this case was classified and banned for an honest investigation. According to Sogrin, the search from Ivdel was led by Yeshtokin, deputy head of the region Kirilenko
-
The book lacks the chapter "MY family ties with M. AXELROD".
-
I looked at the cover. On the cover at the bottom it says "MYTH"
Myth – it means a fairy tale, it means everything that is written – you can NOT BELIEVE
-
Я обращаюсь к А. Аксельроду:
1. Книга должна содержать информацию об авторе. Где находится эта информация?
2. Почему на обложке написано "МИФ"? Миф - это имя автора (например как более изысканный фейк, чем Почемучка, например) или Миф - это текст, как набор чужой информации?
3. Почему в названии написано: "Разгадка спустя 64 года".
Что за РАЗГАДКА, в какой главе и в чьей версии есть разгадка??
I appeal to A. Axelrod:
1. The book must contain information about the author. Where is this information located?
2. Why does the cover say "MYTH"? A myth is the name of the author (for example, as a more refined fake than Why, for example) or a Myth is a text, as a set of someone else's information?
3. Why does the title say: "The solution after 64 years."
What is the solution, in which chapter and in whose version is there a solution??
(https://i.ibb.co/bHptMjJ/image.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/FsPSQLF/image.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
-
My mother is cousin if Lena (wife/widow of Moisey Akselrod).
Both are still alive (from 1933 and 1938) and we communicate via Skype
And my father (alrady died) was also relative to Moisey.
Lena doesn't want participate in this work but has sent me some paragraps.
She is very tired about this Dyatlov theme, but sents us memoirs of live her father. It is more interesting for her.
This theme is interesing for me as for tourist. Also I am intelesing in alternative fantastic versions (like Fantomas, elves etc.) I decided to preseint it as a detective, where readers nay detect my versions only by total reading of text. But believe me - I have written somewhere a reaslitic answer.
The permanent aim is to present importatnt Russian material for English, later German, French and Spanist readers.
-
1. Вы не ответили на заданные вопросы.
2. Хотелось бы так же узнать: Аксельрод – это ваша фамилия или это ваш псевдоним? Вы – родственник со стороны сестры жены М. Аксельрода, соответственно и фамилия у жены М Аксельрода была иной.
3. Судя по дате рождения вашей мамы, ваш возраст должен быть за 60 лет. Этот возраст не предполагает военную обязанность.
И ВСЕ ЖЕ ПОЧЕМУ МИФ? Если ваша книга - миф, у нас есть все основания вам не верить вам.
1. You have not answered the questions asked.
2. I would also like to know: is Axelrod your last name or is it your pseudonym? You are a relative on the side of the sister of M. Axelrod's wife, respectively, and the surname of M. Axelrod's wife was different.
3. Judging by your mom's date of birth, your age should be over 60 years old. This age does not imply military duty.
AND YET WHY THE MYTH? If your book is a myth, we have every reason not to believe you.
-
Axelrod - it is my pseudonym.
My real surname is surname of Mother. (Surname of father were very terrible.)
MIF denotes supposed possible publication in Манн, Иванов и Фербер: Издательство «МИФ»
mann-ivanov-ferber.ru
https://www.mann-ivanov-ferber.ru
Официальный сайт издательства МИФ.
-
Издательство MIF сообщило, что издательство не публиковало автора Аксельрода. Такой книги у них нет.
The MIF publishing house reported that the publishing house did not publish the author Axelrod. There is no such book.
(https://i.ibb.co/NY0WzVY/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9Yxyj8Y)
-
It is a raw maket of book. My friend my arrange future publication of it.
-
Издательство MIF сообщило, что издательство не публиковало автора Аксельрода. Такой книги у них нет.
The MIF publishing house reported that the publishing house did not publish the author Axelrod. There is no such book.
(https://i.ibb.co/NY0WzVY/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9Yxyj8Y)
Anna,can you please translate the Russian in these images? Thank you.
-
Anna,can you please translate the Russian in these images? Thank you.
The screenshot shows the contacts of the publishing house MYTH, the phone number of the publishing house (underlined in red), by which I was informed that such a book was not published by them.
-
An important addition to book:
Here's another similar incident that happened a year later than Dyatlov:
Report on a hike in the Subpolar Urals of a group of tourists from Moscow, Saratov and Arkhangelsk (leader A. Berman)
Recorded February 9, 1960 (p. 33-34)
At night, the tent was suddenly filled with acrid, suffocating smoke. It happened terribly quickly and the duty officer could not understand the reasons for what was happening. People began to choke in their sleep. Disorderly screams rang out.
Someone insistently demanded a knife to cut the tent. Instantly, the winter of 1956 and an overnight stay in a bad chicken hut surfaced in my memory.
“Nose down! To the very floor! Everyone stay where you are!"
If someone, succumbing to panic, rushed to the exit, he would inevitably run into a red-hot stove and, perhaps, would rip it off, and then a fire would be inevitable.
But everyone stayed where they were. There was silence. Everyone was breathing hard, putting their noses on the floor. The fire was not visible. The smoke began to dissipate. Here is a burning candle.
In the silence Herman's voice sounded:
– I was on fire.
– What was on fire?
– I don't know, something in my pocket.
– Look in your pocket.
Silence fell again. Herman could be heard feeling his pocket. Then, somehow very uncertainly, he said: "But he is not."
In the morning two round dark pieces of glass were found.
This is all that is left of Herman's glasses and the plastic case.
Yes, once again, we were convinced that it was not easy to jump out of our tent.
In the morning it was colder than yesterday...
(And such cases were produced in large quantities and did not ignite in anyone's home.
Apparently, the heating of the plastic after the cold had an effect.)
==
Важное добавление в книгу:
Вот ещё похожий случай, произошедший годом позже: Отчёт о походе по Приполярному Уралу группы туристов Москвы, Саратова и Архангельска (руководитель А. Берман)
Запись 9 февраля 1960г. (с. 33-34)
Ночью палатка внезапно наполнилась едким удушливым дымом. Это случилось страшно быстро и дежурный, никак не мог понять причины происходящего. Люди начали задыхаться во сне. Раздались беспорядочные крики. Кто-то настойчиво потребовал нож, чтобы разрезать палатку. Моментально, всплыла в памяти зима 56 года и ночевка в плохой курной избе.
«Нос книзу! К самому полу! Всем оставаться на месте!»
Если бы кто-нибудь, поддавшись панике, ринулся к выходу, он бы неминуемо налетел на раскаленную докрасна печку и, возможно, сорвал бы ее, а тогда пожар был бы неминуем.
Но все остались на месте. Наступила тишина. Все прилежно дышали, положив носы на пол. Огня не было видно. Дым начал рассеиваться. Вот уже видна горящая свечка.
В тишине прозвучал голос Германа:
– Это я горел.
– Что же у тебя горело?
– Не знаю, что-то в кармане.
– Посмотри в кармане.
Снова наступила тишина. Было слышно, как Герман ощупывает карман. Потом, как-то очень неуверенно, он проговорил: «А его нет».
Утром были обнаружены два круглых темных стёклышка.
Это всё, что осталось от Германовых очков и пластмассового футляра.
Да, лишний раз, мы убедились, что из нашей палатки выскочить нелегко.
Утром был мороз не меньше вчерашнего...
А такие футляры выпускались в большом количестве и не возгорались ни у кого дома. Видимо, повлиял разогрев пластмассы после холода.
-
German variant of book (in autotranslation) has been prepared:
http://testavk.poliglotpro.ru/axelrod/de/-def/contents.htm
-
I decided to publsih day by day some materials from my book here on forum. It is difficult to me to veriry my translation from Russian to Engslish. Some mistakek I see directli (eg. "search engine" instead of "rescuer", "cow-girl" in stead of "cowboy shirt"). If you notice some mistakes or corectments in text, please tell me.
First volume (250 pages) contains only presentaion of accedent. My thoughts only on pages 250-750 (Volum2 3 and Volume 3)
Some materails (like last interview with Syunikaev) I proposed to publish on this site, but Teodora has lack of time....
------
Foreword to the Second Volume
In the new chapter, I already plan to put forward something. I will start the explanation with a review by Buyanov (the author of the 3rd edition of the book «The Mystery of the Death of the Dyatlov Group») on the book by S.N. Sogrin «The Dyatlov Pass. What did the tracks say?
Buyanov writes: But in Sogrin's book, the main causes of the tragedy and the course of its events are incorrectly indicated, especially before the retreat of the group into the forest. Comrade Sogrina, the head of their search detachment M.A. Axelrod, was the first to name the main reasons. So, I appeal to Sogrin together with the master of sports Moisey Abramovich Axelrod. And with the master of sports Boris Efimovich Slobtsov, – his detachment found the tent of the Dyatlovites, the first dead and the storage facility of the Dyatlovites. Slobtsov joined my opinion – that's why he became a co-author of our book 2 on his merits in the search for the Dyatlov group. Axelrod would certainly have been a co-author, but, unfortunately, he was no longer alive (he died in 1997). And on January 30, 2018, B.E. Slobtsov also passed away, so I can no longer use their direct support.
I must say that Moisey died on 03/01/1998, and Dmitry Moiseevich Axelrod is my second cousin now, a designer in Yekaterinburg. There is also another second cousin Dmitry, an architect and designer in St. Petersburg (and in Moscow, in Peredelkino opposite the Brodsky Museum, I saw a private mansion in the style of classicism, 3 thousand square meters, built according to his project).
And Boris Slobtsov has a second cousin (by mother) Sasha Vilensky. From Wikipedia: – Soviet and Israeli film director, screenwriter, producer, writer and editor. Born in the family of Professor of Economics Nisson Moiseevich Vilensky and Associate Professor of the Department of Soviet Literature of the Ural State University Lidia Alexandrovna Kishchinskaya.
Sasha Vilensky (b. 1955) graduated from the Higher Courses for Scriptwriters and Directors of the Union of Cinematographers of the USSR, made a number of films. In 1991, he immigrated to Israel, where he worked at the media center of Tel Hai College as a sound engineer, editor, cameraman, and taught video filming in schools. During this period, together with Semyon Katsyv, he filmed the film Round Trip Ticket, shown on the first Israeli TV channel. Since 1995 – editor and producer of the Israeli Educational TV. Since 2006, he became the head of the news service of Channel 9.
In 2013, after the change of the owner of the channel, he left due to disagreement with the policy of the new leadership. Worked on various websites. Since 2019, he has been the editor of the Channel 9 news service (in Israel).
My work is more modest than that of Sasha Vilensky, but similar: I worked in Moscow next to MPEI at Multimedia Technologies LLC (as well as Educational Systems) on the production of 200-300 disks of training programs (on CD, DVD, online ). On each disc, I had to place up to 30-40 hours of video taken from presentations, and so from 1999 and somewhere until 2013. If Valentin Yakimenko has 20 copyright certificates, then I have two hundred of them.
-
I decided to publsih day by day some materials from my book here on forum. It is difficult to me to veriry my translation from Russian to Engslish. Some mistakek I see directli (eg. "search engine" instead of "rescuer", "cow-girl" in stead of "cowboy shirt"). If you notice some mistakes or corectments in text, please tell me.
First volume (250 pages) contains only presentaion of accedent. My thoughts only on pages 250-750 (Volum2 3 and Volume 3)
Some materails (like last interview with Syunikaev) I proposed to publish on this site, but Teodora has lack of time....
------
Foreword to the Second Volume
In the new chapter, I already plan to put forward something. I will start the explanation with a review by Buyanov (the author of the 3rd edition of the book «The Mystery of the Death of the Dyatlov Group») on the book by S.N. Sogrin «The Dyatlov Pass. What did the tracks say?
Buyanov writes: But in Sogrin's book, the main causes of the tragedy and the course of its events are incorrectly indicated, especially before the retreat of the group into the forest. Comrade Sogrina, the head of their search detachment M.A. Axelrod, was the first to name the main reasons. So, I appeal to Sogrin together with the master of sports Moisey Abramovich Axelrod. And with the master of sports Boris Efimovich Slobtsov, – his detachment found the tent of the Dyatlovites, the first dead and the storage facility of the Dyatlovites. Slobtsov joined my opinion – that's why he became a co-author of our book 2 on his merits in the search for the Dyatlov group. Axelrod would certainly have been a co-author, but, unfortunately, he was no longer alive (he died in 1997). And on January 30, 2018, B.E. Slobtsov also passed away, so I can no longer use their direct support.
I must say that Moisey died on 03/01/1998, and Dmitry Moiseevich Axelrod is my second cousin now, a designer in Yekaterinburg. There is also another second cousin Dmitry, an architect and designer in St. Petersburg (and in Moscow, in Peredelkino opposite the Brodsky Museum, I saw a private mansion in the style of classicism, 3 thousand square meters, built according to his project).
And Boris Slobtsov has a second cousin (by mother) Sasha Vilensky. From Wikipedia: – Soviet and Israeli film director, screenwriter, producer, writer and editor. Born in the family of Professor of Economics Nisson Moiseevich Vilensky and Associate Professor of the Department of Soviet Literature of the Ural State University Lidia Alexandrovna Kishchinskaya.
Sasha Vilensky (b. 1955) graduated from the Higher Courses for Scriptwriters and Directors of the Union of Cinematographers of the USSR, made a number of films. In 1991, he immigrated to Israel, where he worked at the media center of Tel Hai College as a sound engineer, editor, cameraman, and taught video filming in schools. During this period, together with Semyon Katsyv, he filmed the film Round Trip Ticket, shown on the first Israeli TV channel. Since 1995 – editor and producer of the Israeli Educational TV. Since 2006, he became the head of the news service of Channel 9.
In 2013, after the change of the owner of the channel, he left due to disagreement with the policy of the new leadership. Worked on various websites. Since 2019, he has been the editor of the Channel 9 news service (in Israel).
My work is more modest than that of Sasha Vilensky, but similar: I worked in Moscow next to MPEI at Multimedia Technologies LLC (as well as Educational Systems) on the production of 200-300 disks of training programs (on CD, DVD, online ). On each disc, I had to place up to 30-40 hours of video taken from presentations, and so from 1999 and somewhere until 2013. If Valentin Yakimenko has 20 copyright certificates, then I have two hundred of them.
Sounds interesting. Could we have the basics of your theory??
-
When I started the book in December, I didn't have an explanation, I didn't have an exact script. I decided to write a small book about a relative, Moses Axelrod (he died in 1998, and since that time we know about the Dyatlov group), his participation in the search (100-200 pages).
As I began work on the book, the explanation gradually came to me. When EUREKA happened, I decided to work on the book for several months.
This was at the end of December and beginning of January. My theories are presented in section 7 (at the beginning of volume 3) "My technogenic versions". This is the shortest section of the 9 sections. I suggest you read it first of all through the link in the top post. It was ready in the winter, but I found some information and added it in the spring. For example, a very interesting chapter "Force majeure (Unknown compelling force) in the US White House."
Some explanations are in the "Natural Versions" section, but here I did not come up with something new, but simply choose the best option from the existing versions. I believe that like a three-stage rocket, they had 3 stages of different accidents (January 31, February 1 (trchnological events) and February 2 (natural events) - which they did not survive)
On May 28-29, I finished work on books in the format of 256+256+288 pages. This is the first edition on which I stopped. Before the end of the year, I plan to expand each book to 288 pages, I plan to describe not only my theories, but also show other interesting theories, a kind of an anthology of investigation. Some texts will be resubmitted and +50 pages will be added.
-
I hesitate to read another book on the subject after the anticlimax of the last, which produced, for me, and after so much anticipation, a you gotta be kidding conclusion, so probably won't be keen to read a serialisation unless I have some inkling as to what it's about.
Am I to take it, using the chapter you've referrred to, that you are suggesting that the hikers accidentally set fire to some of their unused films, kept in reels, when a Chinese torch short-circuited and provided an ignition point, and this rapidly burning fire released nitric oxide into the tent, causing them to burst out of it and to run down the mountain?
Not making any assessment of the theory if so, just trying to pin down what the favoured theory is.
I like that you're the first to stop using (a translated) search engines for rescuers. Anna mentions these search engines all the time and every English-speaker here will immediately think she means Google/Bing/Yahoo were out there back in '59.
-
I think you need to look at the technical information
https://www.ilo.org/dyn/icsc/showcard.display?p_lang=ru&p_card_id=1709&p_version=2
(this site is available in 15 languages)
NITROCELLULOSE (dry, more than 12.6% nitrogen) ICSC: 1709 (April 2017)
Cellulose nitrate
Prevention:
- NO open flames,
- NO sparks and NO smoking.
- Do NOT expose to heat (1),
friction or shock (2).
PREVENT DISPERSION OF DUST (3).
Prevent build-up of electrostatic charges (4) (e.g., by grounding) if in liquid state.
So, we have four reasons (especially 3-4 at the time of changing clothes) for detonation of 200-300 meters of cinema film that caused total smoke (possingly, without a fire) and then cutting a tent by knife
then, chemical reaction 4NO2+O2+2H2O=4HNO3
This is if, say, a smoking film with a brown cloud of nitric oxide was poured with water from heating pads.
Or later, when exposed to moisture, it’s hard for me to explain
The writer from Komsomolskaya Pravda ANDREEV in the middle of the book (before the defeat of Buyanov) cites another interesting version in the book: Nikolai Petrovich Tarasov, head of the traumatology department in Kyshtym, drew attention to some characteristic signs of the state of the body. To this was added the study of some more related factors, and as a result, a new theory of the death of the Dyatlov group was born:
And now gas torches are burning in the north. When burning many minerals, deadly oxides of sulfur and nitrogen enter the atmosphere. When in contact with a humid environment, they turn into sulfuric and nitric acid. This is how acid rain occurs. It doesn't have to be rain, as you might think. They can also fall in the form of fog, snow. Such precipitation can be carried over vast distances, even across the ocean. I think the Dyatlov group got hit by acid rain. The products of combustion are concentrated in the atmosphere. The wind in those days was north and northwest. From the Perm Territory and the Komi ASSR, where there were many old deposits, oxides mixed with moisture, and as a result, the guys felt the effect of sulfuric acid, which enveloped them in the form of an aerosol. Perhaps then the acid began to fall out in the form of drops. Sulfuric acid belongs to the 2nd toxicity group.
ANDREEV objects: But why did the evil aerosols act so selectively only at the pass, while they bypassed other places? And everyone notes that in those days there was a strong wind. He would have carried away harmful substances without a trace.
The doctor drew attention to Krivonischenko's burns of the third degree: It may not be a thermal, but a chemical burn. The spot is vague, as if splashed with boiling water. This is not at all like a burn, as if a part of the body fell into a fire. I think it's the effect of the acid. And the fact that he was confused with a thermal burn may be due to the fact that the body lay under the snow for almost a month. During such a time, the burn could undergo changes, and the medical examiners were simply mistaken!
The absence of eyes in Dubinina and Zolotarev can also be explained by a chemical burn. The guys felt the speech, began to rub their eyes and brought acidic moisture even more. Or is it the result of the action of small rodents. I also drew attention to the fact that the acts speak of areas of parchment density on the bodies of the Dyatlovites. This means that the epidermis was broken, and the skin is then damaged. It can also be a consequence of exposure to acid rain.
ANDREEV: What can I say about this? It was somehow very difficult: oxides were brought from Komi, acid precipitation fell, which enveloped the guys in the form of an aerosol.
-
Also I refer to an article https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-explosive-truth-behind-the-movie-theater-projection-room
-
suggesting that the hikers accidentally set fire to some of their unused films
Russian language has special term like фотоплёнка (or фотопленка) = photo film (diameter 25-30 mm, with length 36 long frames) and киноплёнка= cinema film (its diameter 25-30 cm, length ~14400 short frames). Word фильм = film usually denotes a movie.
So, in English translation you may not distinguish a dirrefence between these films, but in original Russian text - they are distinguished. So presence of cinema film appeared for me so strange as "Lyuda 5 meters of Cambric fabric" https://forum.dyatlovpass.com/index.php?topic=1458.0
-
There wasn't a 35mm movie camera listed on the inventory. It, rather than 8mm, would be a lumpy object to carry around on this hike and likely to be damaged. And without such a moving image camera there was no reason to take "200-300m" of film.
I've been assuming here that there was said to be a film reel tin, and the hikers stored their still camera films inside, this creating the perfect barbecue roasting tin for this theory during any fire.
In English the terminology used to describe the film container helps distinguish the two. One describes moving images, and the other stills. Movie (moving) film is stored on reels, and is housed inside round cans with a lid. Still photography film is inside cassettes, metal or plastic, and has a short piece of camera film, the leader, sticking out, which you use to engage with the still camera loading sprockets.
Reels:
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=APwXEddPkZbTOyiQwUXEW5N2rRSXukhBWg:1687371549590&q=35mm+film+reel&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLxsTu_NT_AhWFWMAKHaMGA7IQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1440&bih=723&dpr=1
Cassettes:
https://www.google.com/search?q=35mm+film+cassette&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiLxor0_NT_AhXQpicCHexhA9AQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=35mm+film+cassette&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIFCAAQgAQyBwgAEBgQgAQyBwgAEBgQgAQ6BAgjECc6BggAEAcQHjoGCAAQBRAeOggIABAIEAcQHlDOwQFY6NkBYNvcAWgBcAB4AIABggOIAfwKkgEGMTMuMy0xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=KT-TZMuNDdDNnsEP7MONgA0&bih=723&biw=1440&client=firefox-b-d
I have my doubts that this fire would continue beyond the light and dustproof felt trap on each film cassette. I think it would extinguish itself once it reached that point. So I will assume, running with your theory, that the combustion of the film leaders was sufficient to generate enough nitric oxide gas inside the tent...
But even if this fire did occur, and the hikers burst their way out of the tent or risk choking, why did they need to run away? Once outside they are in fresh air, this is their recovery zone, not down the mountain where they will freeze to death. Once the fire is out and the tent ventilated the problem is over, just repair the tent, or at least take what you need to survive if going somewhere else.
And if they ran away, as you appear to suggest, then they would have falls and there should be corresponding injuries to wrists and collar bones. The tent should have shown some signs of burning or scorching. Only two hikers did, Yuri Krivo's leg was burnt, and Yuri Doro's scalp was singed, and both men were found near a fire elsewhere.
-
Cinema film for amateurs was never produced from nitrocellulose (i.e. flammable). See Wikipedia please.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35_mm_movie_film
Cimena film for cinema theaters was usually produced from nitrocellulose during first half of XX centiry, but since 1948 it was gradually substitted by another material (3-acetat?). In 1951 Kodak stopped production of dangerous film. Narrow variant of cinema film (e.g. for educational films) was rarely produced from nitrocellulose, i.e. sometimes it was also in USSR.
(https://i.ibb.co/SX1cgzc/plenka-small.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jvxzYSz)
Film 8 mm is sufficiently exotic. Maybe only for amateurs? I don't know about amateurs. I have seen only ready variants for cinema theaters. I have seen 8 mm cinema film only 1 time in my life, but rolls 35 mm I have seen hundreds of times. It was the most polular format (length of each roll was about 6-10 minutes, usually ~10 min, i.e.14400 frames, but I cannot say it exactly).
I believe that Dyatlov group used film wide as 35 mm and with diameter 25-27 cm, becuase length of cut #1 on their tent is 31-32 cm (see Tent expertise Sheets). This length of 31 cm is not suitable for people, but is siutable for a can with film with diameter 27-28 cm and height 4-5 cm.
-
I don't think it's listed in the inventory but are you suggesting they had a movie camera? Or am I might swing something...Might make more sense for taking the tripod?
-
Next material from Russian video of Dmitry North (November 2022) from time 0 min. 30 sec.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfePlGTwOpE&t=30s
(original fragment - from MamaY's video (2015) from 13 min. 30 sec.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypthl4yE4a8&t=800s )
(https://i.ibb.co/tJ2Zzgp/nadduv.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9r4wh6H)
Here is the transcript of NOT MY youtube video (WITH SOME MISTAKES OF ATTOTRANLSATION), "Dyatlov Pass. Death on the deck. part 1." (1,915 views Nov 26, 2022?), from which I already posted a screenshot above. You can find videos by this name. It's still repeating. I didn’t find out whose face was in the frame, Dmitry has a different voice.
Good evening everyone, my friends. Let's watch a small piece of the video one more time and continue… a small sentence about the place where the Dyatlov group allegedly died, or rather, where the four, who were later found in the stream, died. Now the snowy situation in the area of the Dyatlov Pass is very similar to the one that was here in February during the journey of the Dyatlov group. Lots of snow, it snows every day. Freezing. The wind blows. And at 70 meters, where the stream is located, such very interesting supercharges have now formed.
An almost natural cave: the pressurization hangs over the stream bed so much that it practically makes a roof. Only a small hole remains. And in place of the participants, who froze from the cold and could not make a normal fire, it would be very logical to use such a shelter from the wind, from the snow from the cold. Without much modification, it could be brought to the state of a full-fledged cave. Now it's dangerous to go there. Of course, I won’t climb there, because a multi-ton block of snow hangs from above. If it collapses, then it will bury me there forever. But in case of critical danger, it would be foolish not to use such a place.
Yes, my friends, I showed you a small excerpt from my last video, where the guys show us the very place 70 meters from the cedar, where the four from the Dyatlov group found their last rest. I want to express my personal opinion about what we saw in this video, what thoughts, what conclusions come to my mind. Well, let's get started. I'll probably start, literally two words for these same tricks. The fact is that these are the snow puffs that form there every winter… Of course, they differ from each other every winter. Why do they form there? Well, this is the specificity of the terrain of that area and the presence of constant strong winds there. The fact that the inflators themselves are different every winter can also be explained quite well, because winter does not fall on winter. One winter may be with heavy rainfall, another not. So, winter with more heavy rainfall… With such a winter, of course, there will be large superchargers, multi-meter, multi-ton, voluminous. If the winter will be with less accusations of precipitation, then the supercharging there will be small.
Then this one arises, the question arises: What was the pressurization there at the time of the death of Dyatlov in 59? In order for you and me to understand this, we need to return to the memories of Sergei Nikolaevich Sogrin. There he tells them that the rescuers in 1959 had already passed the very place where the bodies were found in May in early March. With composite probes, the length of which was from 3 to 4 meters. And the most curious thing is that in May, when these bodies were already found and they began to dig a seam to excavate them, these same March probe punctures were visible, which did not reach the bodies from half a meter to a meter.
From here we will draw a conclusion with you, the only possible one is that at the beginning of March, at least 4 meters of snow was needed above the bodies. This begs the question: where did it come from? That is, no heavy rainfall can explain this. And why the flooring lies on snow only 30 cm thick… That is, the flooring lies on snow 30 cm thick. It turns out that the bodies of the Dyatlovites at the time of death were only 30 cm in the snow. Where did 4 meters of snow form over them in one month? Here on this one, I think I think I have the answer to this question. Again, I want us to go back to the video that I showed you, and we see these gaps under supercharging. The guys decided to make a shelter for themselves under this pressurization, they descend into this gap, lay a floor for themselves there and are on this floor, fleeing from the wind, and this four-meter mass of multi-ton snow hangs over them. But if we carefully look again at this video, then we will see that the gaps under these boosts are rather narrow.
In order for four people to be there and to make flooring there, then of course, the Dyatlovites had to expand their living space for themselves, which was more or less convenient to be there. And therefore, I believe that with these very movements of theirs, they, of course, being already at the bottom, you can say a ravine only on snow 30 cm thick, they violated the lower part, undermined the basis of this very pressurization. That is, the lower part of this very pressurization, which in the end, at one wonderful moment, simply collapsed on them and crushed them, inflicting compression fractures of the ribs on all people and crushing Thibeaux-Brignolle's head on the stones that are in the stream of this very ravine.
About the stream in the ravine. The fact is that in winter there is very little water there, and all the stones that are at the bottom of this very stream are bare and covered with only a small amount of snow. So, this multi-ton mass of snow that fell on the guys, of course, she pressed their bodies against these very stones, simply crushing them. This is my personal opinion on this.
Next we go… that is, what I explain here. I explain that the guys, firstly, did not dig any caves and did not throw out cubic meters there with their bare hands, huge masses of snow in order to get to the bottom of the stream there in order to make themselves some kind of shelter. We see all this shelter, here it is, please! There are these gaps under supercharging. There is no need to dig much there.
Further, this explains why the flooring lies on only 30 cm of snow, and from where 4 meters of snow formed over the bodies in early March. Yes, well, it also explains the compression fractures of the ribs of Semyon and Lyuda. Which, by the way, experts Tumanov and Nikitin tell us about.
Now I want to ask you all a question. Answer yourself this question, why this four makes a shelter for itself in the ravine of the stream. That is, she crawls under this very pressurization and makes a shelter for herself there, having made a flooring. Why, from what did she make herself a shelter there. Here I also found the answer for myself. If we carefully read the material of the criminal case, we will see that at least 10 people indicate to us that in the first days of February there was a strong hurricane wind in those places. So here is my opinion that the guys made shelter under this pressurization, escaping precisely from this very wind, from which it was impossible to escape in the open area near the cedar, where there was a fire… but, as it were, that’s all for today, good luck to everyone, bye bye.
-
I don't think it's listed in the inventory but are you suggesting they had a movie camera? Or am I might swing something...Might make more sense for taking the tripod?
They had a spool of 35mm cinematic film (how many meters of film it contained is unknown). The film was intended for use in photo cameras. There are at least two reasons why It was worth do: 1. They got it for free (removed from the balance sheet of the UPI amateur film studio).
2. Film had a light sensitivity of more than 90 units according to GOST (90 units - the limit for photographic film on sale until the mid-60s) and they were going to shoot scenes around the fire and (or) views Aurora Borealis. For this purpose, a tripod was taken.
In order IMHO: the version with its combustion as the root cause of all the trouble - is below any criticism. This is the same ferocious delirium as Donna Anna's denunciations.
But God created man, and the devil taught him to write, and now himself can do nothing about it.
-
The film was intended for use in photo cameras.
this is a misconception, invented as explanation
-
1. They got it for free (removed from the balance sheet of the UPI amateur film studio).
amateur films were not 35 mm wide
-
amateur films were not 35 mm wide
If I don't confuse anything, the UPI studio was semi-professional. They even shot educational films for the needs of the UPI.
In any case, in Sverdlovsk there was a place to get a decommissioned film - a full-fledged film studio operated there.
this is a misconception
Enlighten me please.
Just don't forget to justify.
-
As I remember educational films they always had narrow film (16 mm).
- Dyatlov group arrived to 41th settlement with truck which transported 3 movies (~30 cans with films).
- They (or some of them) had spend a night in a room of driver, according their diaries.
- Cimema film might be found in abandoned Second Northern mining settlement like a garbage (old movies e.g.with Stalin are garbage). We know, Yury Yudin found there materian for museum, so Igor possibly found something for himself.
They had problems with fire with moist woods so they possibly took material for inflammation, according manuals for tourists.
--
Your theories about UPI stidio is an imagiantion as explanation. You imagine something and present it as a fact.
We know count of photo frames made during 9 days. They has about 9-10 unused photo films with 36 empty frames till end of their treck. Cimema film was definetely in separate can, not with money and photo films. It is mistake of investiogatoins that it was together with money. Protocol was written by handwriting of journalist Yury Yarovoy, not Tempalov. Only Tempalov's supscription was there.
Your explanations maybe are from Interview-2013 with Sharavin https://dyatlovpass.com/sharavin-2
MP: A sealed can of film that allegedly rolled out of the tent. What was it like? Was it round and flat, like a washer? Or another kind? And what was its diameter approximately?
MSh: I have not seen the can in which the film was found. At that time, hikers often used film in cameras for photographing.
MP: They say that scraps of film were found 15 meters below the tent. Yudin suggests that they could have taken pictures there.
MSh: I also heard that from Yudin.
MP: Mihail Petrovich, do you know the name of the Prosecutor Tempalov, who, they say, also took part in the search? Did you meet with him?
MSh: I met with Tempalov only once - on the 28th during the dismantling of the tent. I can't say anything about him.
---
This was said by men which did not have neither photo cameras nor watches, nor binoculars in 1959. They may imagine everything.
-
I doubt the hikers would load their own film cassettes from an unexposed 200-300m reel of 35mm film. And that length would be good for 181 x 36-exposure films, producing 6516 images, and, at the rate they were taking photo's, an average of 13 per day, it would mean they had 501 days supply.
I used to buy bulk 35mm film to load my own cassettes, and do the processing, and the loading and unloading is a fiddly business if done manually; you need to practice how to do this in the light because you'll need to load the cassettes (and later unload them to put the exposed film onto the spindle of a developing tank) in complete darkness, using either a darkroom or a changing bag. Inside the tent on a moonless night might just about do it, but it's not a clean atmosphere, and their fingers would be cold, dirty and damp.
The other way is to use a bulk film loader, which I eventually purchased, assuming the Soviet Union had them in '59, and the reel of film would be housed in that, not a metal movie/cine reel can, but here we'd be adding more missing and uninventoried equipment to the hike.
So, running with this theory - there was no movie or cine camera (?), only an exposed & developed movie reel housed inside a can which was sourced at the 41st Settlement and this was carried for 9 days to be used as a firelighter (8 or 9lbs of additional weight), and then it accidentally ignited inside the tent on 1079, releasing noxious fumes, and so a hiker cut a 'letter box' slot the same size as a burning film can so that he/she could post it outside, the questions still remain:
Why did this event cause the hikers to abandon their tent when they could easily ventilate it once the emergency was over?
If they had to leave what prevented them taking all that they needed to survive away from it?
Why wasn't there any burn or scorch marks inside the tent, especially around the slot cut from the inside to push the burning can outside - an area which was forensically examined at microscopic level?
-
(8 or 9lbs of additional weight)
I think mass was <1kg. If we imagine 10 cans (100 minutes of movie) - they are not so heavy as i remember.
They may have put a lid on the jar (can) when using the 'letter box'. It is also possible that there was a lot of smoke and a small fire, or the fire was extinguished with water, which led to the formation of nitric acid fumes HNO3. Now I discover informantion about HCN (it will be added to book).
Participants who had already graduated from the institute, they behaved more sensibly and found their shoes. These are instructor Zoloaryov (who even took a camera) and Thibeaux-Brignolles. Tourist Slobodin, who worked only 4 months, found only shoes for 1 foot. The rest were students and were very frightened. Maybe they thought they'd be back soon but this did not work out due to poisoning.
-
Группа Дятлова прибыла в населенный пункт 41 на грузовике, который перевозил 3 фильма (~30 банок с фильмами).
- Согласно их дневникам, они (или некоторые из них) провели ночь в комнате водителя.
- Кинопленку можно найти в заброшенном Втором Северном шахтерском поселке как мусор (старые фильмы
So the projectionist's jar was stolen?
Or in the abandoned settlement of geologists 2nd Severny was not only a warehouse of geological samples, but also a warehouse of works of cinema? And you are not funny from such assumptions?
Colleague, firstli, k/films could be store and disposed of only where the organs were the bodies authorized to make decisions on their withdrawal from operation were located. In the regional capital, that is. And nowhere else.
Secondly, it would never occur to any normal tourist to carryng on backs from ≥1.14 kg (reel 120 m) to ~ 3.5 kg (300 m) kindling, to places where ideal kindling (birch bark) is at every step.
I don’t even want to talk about who you need to be to set fire to the film inside the tent. whacky1
And the idea that after that you can leave without shoes and outerwear to spend the night in the winter forest will not visit everyone either.
But - it’s beautiful to live you won’t forbid it. Write more.
Participants who had already graduated from the institute, they behaved more sensibly and found their shoes. These are instructor Zoloaryov (who even took a camera) and Thibeaux-Brignolles. Tourist Slobodin, who worked only 4 months, found only shoes for 1 foot.
bigjoke
Somehow it is not entirely clear what exactly makes a person so reasonable - a completed higher education, or subsequent work experience in a specialty ... Ok. We will keep in mind.
-
I doubt the hikers would load their own film cassettes from an unexposed 200-300m reel of 35mm film.
They had 4 or 5 cameras. If one of them before the trip suddenly had the opportunity to get a reel of film for free in order to have "unlimited traffic" when shooting, then why not take advantage of this. Rewinding film from a reel to a working cassette presents no difficulty. This can be done even in an impromptu bag made from a jacket. Develop films, no one was engaged in field conditions.
-
Or in the abandoned settlement of geologists 2nd Severny was not only a warehouse of geological samples, but also a warehouse of works of cinema? And you are not funny from such assumptions?
If they watched 3 movies in small 41th settlement, why 2nd Northern is worse? Amount of houses seems the same....
Colleague, firstli, k/films could be store and disposed of only where the organs were the bodies authorized to make decisions on their withdrawal from operation were located. In the regional capital, that is. And nowhere else.
Please read from https://dyatlovpass.com/yuri-yudin-diary
27 We spent the night in the hut of the 2nd Northern settlement. There are so many houses, warehouses, premises, forgotten old vehicles, machine tools. Everything was abandoned since 1952.
If they leaver machine tools(!), so why they should transport old cinema bobines during 500 km to Sverdlovsk?
Heavy, as you suppose.
Secondly, it would never occur to any normal tourist to carryng on backs from ≥1.14 kg (reel 120 m) to ~ 3.5 kg (300 m) kindling,
pelase multilpy 1.14 kg by 2.5 (i.e. 300m/120m) You obtain 2,85 kg, not 3.5 kg. Where are you wrong?
I have weithtenef about meter of color and grey diafilm and obtained 6-7 g per meter. My Bookmark from real cinema film is inappropriate for weighting.... Grey diafilm appeared a little heavier than color onr. But both are possibly Triacetate, I don't know about Nitrocellulose... Maybe 5 g per meter. So 500-700 g per 100m. Where you obtained 1,14kg for 120m&
-
I doubt the hikers would load their own film cassettes from an unexposed 200-300m reel of 35mm film.
They had 4 or 5 cameras. If one of them before the trip suddenly had the opportunity to get a reel of film for free in order to have "unlimited traffic" when shooting, then why not take advantage of this. Rewinding film from a reel to a working cassette presents no difficulty. This can be done even in an impromptu bag made from a jacket. Develop films, no one was engaged in field conditions.
This does not compute. In your suggestion, either they needed to have a supply of empty film cassettes to load this roll of film into, when none of them were known to have the skills to do so (and surely they'd take UPI-preloaded cassettes instead of carrying around enough film for 6000+ photographs), or they'd have to remove the exposed film from the cassettes they had when photographs had been taken in order to reload them with fresh film.
Then they'd need to store these smaller rolls of exposed film, without damaging the emulsion, without touching either side with fingers or allowing it to be scratched, and keeping it outside of the ideal light and dustproof box (cassette or camera) where it ran the risk of it being re-exposed.
-
(8 or 9lbs of additional weight)
I think mass was <1kg. If we imagine 10 cans (100 minutes of movie) - they are not so heavy as i remember.
They may have put a lid on the jar (can) when using the 'letter box'. It is also possible that there was a lot of smoke and a small fire, or the fire was extinguished with water, which led to the formation of nitric acid fumes HNO3. Now I discover informantion about HCN (it will be added to book).
Participants who had already graduated from the institute, they behaved more sensibly and found their shoes. These are instructor Zoloaryov (who even took a camera) and Thibeaux-Brignolles. Tourist Slobodin, who worked only 4 months, found only shoes for 1 foot. The rest were students and were very frightened. Maybe they thought they'd be back soon but this did not work out due to poisoning.
I have since read suggestion in another forum that the weight of 300m of 35mm film, reel and can, would be 5lbs - so 2.27kgs. Even so, that's still the equivalent of a couple of bags of sugar to carry around as firelighters when they already had diary pages, the Crocodile magazine (and possibly others already used for this purpose), cardboard and alcohol for the same purpose.
They had jettisoned unnecessary weight in a labaz ahead of the ascent, and with all their preparation seemed to be planning to make it to Otorten and back in one day, so why did they need to take this combustible cine film to use as a firelighter when, unless they dropped down to a forest, there'd be no need for this to start a campfire.
If this cine film was intended to light the stove that bit faster they didn't need to take the whole of it, and this would require the stove to be set up, for wood to be present when most witnesses said there wasn't any.
If they ever had this cine film it would have made more sense for it to be stored in the labaz, not carted up 1079, and take only some of it with them inside the stove.
-
This does not compute. In your suggestion, either they needed to have a supply of empty film cassettes to load this roll of film into, when none of them were known to have the skills to do so (and surely they'd take UPI-preloaded cassettes instead of carrying around enough film for 6000+ photographs), or they'd have to remove the exposed film from the cassettes they had when photographs had been taken in order to reload them with fresh film.
Then they'd need to store these smaller rolls of exposed film, without damaging the emulsion, without touching either side with fingers or allowing it to be scratched, and keeping it outside of the ideal light and dustproof box (cassette or camera) where it ran the risk of it being re-exposed.
First, you were imagining problems that were unrealistic. Films can be rolled from cassettes, wrapped in black paper and stored for as long as needed.
Secondly, you still have to choose one of the two, either this is photographic material, or this is kindling for the stove.
Or come up with something third
-
If they leaver machine tools(!), so why they should transport old cinema bobines during 500 km to Sverdlovsk?
Unlike machine tools and automobiles, films were not handled by the Northern Expedition, but by the Directorates of Cinematography of the Culture Departments of the executive committees. They had their own rules. Film mechanics were obliged to return worn-out films to the department's warehouse, where they were written off and destroyed
Maybe 5 g per meter. So 500-700 g per 100m. Where you obtained 1,14kg for 120m&
https://sreda.photo/goods/kodak_5203_35mm
Colleague...
For some exceptional occasion you can carry a meter-long skein in your pocket, but to carry kilos of kindling for the fire through the taiga, you have to be an complete idiot.
As Comrade Ankudinov from the "taina li" says: "Don't judge other people by yourself - bound to be wrong!"
-
So, you believe that they carry 200-300 meters of film for making abstract photos (that is technically hardly impossible) ant transport them 500 km from Scerdlovsk, but you dot't belive that they carry THE SAME kilograms for making a fire and transport them only 50 km.
Very strange ideas in your head!
-
Photos are not abstract. They are quite realistic. But kilograms of kindling on the back and in taiga, where the kindling surrounds you from all sides is definitely surrealism.
-
1) https://meganorm.ru/Data2/1/4294851/4294851600.htm
При сгорании нитроцеллюлозной киноплёнки на открытом воздухе образуются ядовитые газообразные продукты горения: окись углерода и окислы азота.
При полном сгорании 1 кг нитроцеллюлозной киноплёнки при температуре 1100 градусов Цельсия и нормальном давлении выделяется около 4,4 куб.м газообразных продуктов горения.
При неполном сгорании 1 кг нитроцеллюлозной киноплёнки образуется около 7-12г синильной кислоты.
When nitrocellulose film is burned in the open air, toxic combustion gases are formed: carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides.
With the complete combustion of 1 kg of nitrocellulose film at a temperature of 1100 degrees Celsius and normal pressure, about 4.4 cubic meters of combustion gases are released.
With incomplete combustion of 1 kg of nitrocellulose film, about 7-12 g of hydrocyanic acid is formed.
2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide
A hydrogen cyanide concentration of 100–200 ppm in breathing air will kill a human within 10 to 60 minutes.[61] A hydrogen cyanide concentration of 2000 ppm (about 2380 mg/m3) will kill a human in about one minute.[61] The toxic effect is caused by the action of the cyanide ion, which halts cellular respiration. It acts as a non-competitive inhibitor for an enzyme in mitochondria called cytochrome c oxidase. As such, hydrogen cyanide is commonly listed among chemical weapons as a blood agent.
Концентрация цианистого водорода 100–200 частей на миллион в воздухе для дыхания убьёт человека в течение 10–60 минут. [61] Цианистый водород с концентрацией 2000 частей на миллион (около 2380 мг/м 3 ) убьёт человека примерно за одну минуту. [61] Токсический эффект обусловлен действием иона цианида, который останавливает клеточное дыхание . Он действует как неконкурентный ингибитор фермента в митохондриях, называемого цитохром-с-оксидазой . Таким образом, цианистый водород обычно причисляют к химическому оружию как отравляющее кровь средство.
-
This does not compute. In your suggestion, either they needed to have a supply of empty film cassettes to load this roll of film into, when none of them were known to have the skills to do so (and surely they'd take UPI-preloaded cassettes instead of carrying around enough film for 6000+ photographs), or they'd have to remove the exposed film from the cassettes they had when photographs had been taken in order to reload them with fresh film.
Then they'd need to store these smaller rolls of exposed film, without damaging the emulsion, without touching either side with fingers or allowing it to be scratched, and keeping it outside of the ideal light and dustproof box (cassette or camera) where it ran the risk of it being re-exposed.
First, you were imagining problems that were unrealistic. Films can be rolled from cassettes, wrapped in black paper and stored for as long as needed.
Secondly, you still have to choose one of the two, either this is photographic material, or this is kindling for the stove.
Or come up with something third
I don't have to choose between the two, I think it was neither. It's you and Axelrod who are having that debate. I've already suggested a third, that if there ever was a cine film can it was simply an empty one used to store preloaded film cassettes inside, and suggested that the film leaders would not be enough to generate a substantial fire in that can, and that they would self-extinguish when the metal cassette's light/dust trap was reached.
Your ideas that exposed film can be removed from a cassette and the cassette reloaded from a reel of film by inexperienced people inside the dark confines of a jacket, and then wrapped in black paper and carted around on a hike without damaging the film emulsion ahead of developing, is nonsense.
-
Or come up with something third
FIlm with 14400 secret snapshot pages for American spy from CIA. Definitely, more valuable material than radioactive pants and sweater (in Rakitins version). But I don't develop this version.
-
FIlm with 14400 secret snapshot pages for American spy from CIA. Definitely, more valuable material than radioactive pants and sweater
Without any doubt.
But I don't develop this version.
In vain.
Because there, as it turned out, a more sensible use of those kilograms is supposed than what you suggested earlier.
-
Your ideas that exposed film can be removed from a cassette and the cassette reloaded from a reel of film by inexperienced people inside the dark confines of a jacket, and then wrapped in black paper and carted around on a hike without damaging the film emulsion ahead of developing, is nonsense.
As you wish, but once upon a time I did it more than once, not even suspecting that it was can't to do so
I've already suggested a third, that if there ever was a cine film can it was simply an empty one used to store preloaded film cassettes inside
The idea is good, but the witness G. Atmanaki is unlikely to agree with it. During the interrogation on 07.04.1959, he testified that he had seen a box of fotofilms in the tent, and a roll of cinemafilm 15 meters away.
But in any case, the clarification of this issue can hardly give a clue to understanding the cause of the entire incident as a whole.